When We Rise (2017) - General Discussion

[DonitsYum]

OK, so it's true: the show is now all about the dudes, and the ladies are afterthoughts wedged in to check a box all about traditional mom stuff and they can't even do that without their kid feeling like she desperately needs a dad.

P.S. some lesbians ran for office taking the gay seats because the gay guys died tragically but the survivor dudes were willing to help the dykes get elected since they were too weak to run a new crop o'dudes due all being too sick because of the plague and off screen the women had taken care of the dying dudes, but we only get to see the caregiving the dudes themselves did, since women are boring and not really important anyway and we take them for granted and who cares?

I guess we'll just have to do another series if we don't want to make everything the women do into some marginalized stereotypical sexist afterthought.

And trans representation follows right along, because apparently there was nothing going on for trans people either, other than the one we showed being saved by hero dude and then serving as support for him later on.

P.S. Thailand accepts trans women way more than the USA does, so let's make a so-quick-you-might-miss-it reference to that.

The gay guys suffered so much and are so giving and heroic and can do everything from win elections to rescuing babies to leading revolutions, and their marriages are devotional and noble and they love each other perfectly from start to finish and still they suffer! The bashings and legal cruelties are unceasing! OMIGOD HOW COULD WE LOVE THEM MORE?!

Meanwhile, the women are never attacked. They are not legally denied anything. They are even treated decently by the traditional habit-wearing stern-looking nun. Their only problems are the bland issue of whether to try to pass at parents' night to appease a bratty teenager, and it turns out that wasn't really necessary either. Such a glowing bubble of ease around these lezzies of leisure. Even their election campaigns are marred only by their own surliness and a few sexist jabs from the queer dude who delivers them the win. The charmed lives of dykes! It's like they actually think this is representation!

Oh, and the lesbians don't have families either. Or if they do, we forgot to mention it. Having babies is enough, they don't need parents like the other characters, ALL the drama of acceptance and reconciliation MUST be shown via the other characters. Remember, lesbians being nurses and moms is the only thing we do that matters, and pinch hitting local political offices til the gay guys can repopulate.

Grow up, dudes!

Other than that, great.

Even after all these years, I can't see a photo of Matthew Sheppard without bursting into tears.

I'm not saying the gay dude stuff isn't great. But don't tell me they put a few token stereotype helpmeets in for females, and that = representation. It's a huge insult to us, and it's a horrible disservice not only to US, but also to the educational agenda they claim to have. Anyone watching this thinking it's LGBT history is getting a very skewed view that tries to convince us all that it isn't skewed.

It would have been ok with me if they were honest, and just told it as what it is. But they thought they could sell it better if they convinced people it was going to be more inclusive than Angels in America, so they did a bait and switch.

And this is why some lesbians don't want to coalition with gay dudes. It's because of the sexism and taking advantage and dismissal.

I'm 50, have have a better-than-average awareness of the early lesbian movement (essentially from reading Rita Mae Brown, etc) but boy was my wife all "I'm confused at who is who and why are these women mad at each other and why is this story all about the guys?" I had to stop the DVR 5 times and fill in the plot holes.
All I got from the lesbian stories was "man there were some baaad haircuts in the 70's!"

[Sarah 103]

8 minutes ago, Silly Angel said:

ah, Indiana--http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/16/total-abortion-ban-proposed-indiana/93954670/ steps as well.

You're welcome. Fun/scary fact-Many of the laws like the one you mentioned are proposed knowing that the bill will probably not pass or even make it very far into the legislative process. They are introduced so someone can run campaign ads saying some variation of "I introduced legislation to..."

I haven't heard anything about a DVD release, but I hope there is one. Maybe it can include the special that ran before one of the parts featuring interviews with the real people who inspired the miniseries, and a coupon to buy any of the books it was based off of.

[DonitsYum]

I will never forget as long as I live, the feeling I had when I heard the President say that he agreed that gays & lesbians should be able to get married. I remember the 2015 DOMA decision and being at work on the SCOTUS live feed when it went down. I couldn't even work. I reacted out loud (in an open area full of cubicles) and was met with silence because none of my coworkers gave a shit. I had to run around the building, searching for my gays. I wanted to be Roma...fist pumping and crying.
I was full-on sobbing by the end of the finale partly because it outlines exactly what we all have to lose now.

[HoneyBadgerJr]

On 3/2/2017 at 11:54 AM, Sarah 103 said:

I can see why the A hasn't caught on, because in many cases it seems like it would be covered under something else. If one co-worker is pressuring an asexual co-worker to have sex with them, and the asexual co-worker isn't interested, that should be covered under sexual harassment. I'd have a hard time picturing someone not being able to rent an apartment because they are asexual, because how would the owner know or even suspect the renter is asexual? It seems like the issues/experiences would be too different to merit common cause. 

 

Respectfully, as someone who identifies as asexual, please understand that just because someone identifies as asexual (or "ace" as we say for short), that doesn't mean that all are romantically attracted to the 'opposite' gender (or that all subscribe to the line of thought that gender is binary - there are many non-binary people in the ace community as well.)

If someone who is ace is aromantic as well, they may not face many of the challenges faced by allosexuals, but if one is ace and homoromantic, bi-romantic or pan-romantic, there is the potential for the same conflicts as if they were allosexual.  Also, there is very real erasure of the perspective of the ace perspective: for example - I went to a new therapist once who, when I told them of my orientation, said that it could very well be my weight that made me ace (I'm super-morbidly-obese). No. My orientation is simply part of who I am. 

So, no - our struggles may not always be the same, but that doesn't mean we don't have them. Nor does it mean they aren't just as real as those of others.

[Sarah 103]

1 hour ago, HoneyBadgerJr said:

If someone who is ace is aromantic as well, they may not face many of the challenges faced by allosexuals, but if one is ace and homoromantic, bi-romantic or pan-romantic, there is the potential for the same conflicts as if they were allosexual. 

I had never heard of homoromantic before, so I looked it up. They would face many of the same challenges as homosexual couples, and so including them in in LGBTQ would make more sense than I realized. Thanks for opening my eyes to the range in the asexual community.

[HoneyBadgerJr]

@Sarah 103 - Thank YOU for looking further into it, and being willing to learn. Can't tell you how much that is appreciated. 

[St. Claire]

I was out of town at a conference when the SCOTUS decision came out. I remember sitting in the staff office with my meeting planners (one a young, gay man with no aspirations toward marriage and one a middle-aged straight woman who has been married for a couple of decades and raising school-age kids, just like me). The three of us were just hugging and near tears at the enormity of it all.

My stomach just hurt in the scene for Bobbi's funeral, when her brother insisted upon using a male pronoun and accused them of being mean to Bobbi's mother. When we had my cousin's memorial service, all of the pictures we used  were from a 12-15 year timeframe, because my aunt didn't want to have any pictures of when Adam was still Amanda. We had a couple family members who stuck to "she" and "Amanda" for a few years after he started transitioning. I never knew if it was malice because they didn't think it was a real thing to be transgendered, or if it was just habit- he was presenting as girl for the first 15ish years of his life, so folks who only saw him a few times a year had a steep learning curve. But those same family members were incredibly supportive through his marriage (and subsequent divorce) and when he died. Anyway, this is all to say that the trans storylines were a bit of gut punch because I saw the struggles from the outside and I never felt like I'd been able to do enough for my cousin before he killed himself.

[DrSparkles]

"If these walls could talk" a 3-parter from HBO (I think) was really good. They covered both gay rights (or lack thereof) & there's a second set on abortion. Both are FANTASTIC IMO.

[DrSparkles]

So, So, in the late-80s I was mid-20s (straight white girl) living in South Beach. The plague didn't hit there as early (or noticeably early) as it did in CA & NYC, but when it did... one day someone was there (at work, at the club), the next week, they were gone (dead). It was horrifying & terrifying. I had 2 good friends who probably contracted HIV around the same time & had a similar disease progression. One had the best insurance, the other had Medicaid. I went to dr's appt's with both of them. It was so sad. The one w Medicaid ending up moving (back) to the Keys towards the end, but I spend a LOT of time with my other friend. Both at his apt and at the hospital. I ended up leaving for graduate school in Jan 1994 & they both died in March. I couldn't return for either service & neither of their parents attended either. Broke my heart. This is why I got into HIV research & prevention - 23 years now. I will gladly lose/change jobs when there's a cure. 

I always watch these shows and I always cry like a baby throughout. I would LOVE to meet Cleve.

[DrSparkles]

On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 2:40 AM, possibilities said:

Even after all these years, I can't see a photo of Matthew Sheppard without bursting into tears.

I want to vomit when I hear his story. I have a dear friend who suffered a similar fate in Palm Beach co in the late 1990s. When I heard about it (way after the fact), I thought I might die.

ETA link to my friend's story: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1998-05-06/news/9805050385_1_steven-goedereis-teens-police-documents

Edited March 7, 2017 by DrSparkles

[DrSparkles]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 2:00 PM, DonitsYum said:

I will never forget as long as I live, the feeling I had when I heard the President say that he agreed that gays & lesbians should be able to get married. I remember the 2015 DOMA decision and being at work on the SCOTUS live feed when it went down. I couldn't even work. I reacted out loud (in an open area full of cubicles) and was met with silence because none of my coworkers gave a shit. I had to run around the building, searching for my gays. I wanted to be Roma...fist pumping and crying.
I was full-on sobbing by the end of the finale partly because it outlines exactly what we all have to lose now.

Ditto. The difference between Obama & now is frightening. I cried a little last night when I heard him say it in the show. <3

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ivory Aquino discusses When We Rise on Build:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Gilbert Baker, designer of the gay pride rainbow flag, died on Thursday

[methodwriter85]

On 3/3/2017 at 2:40 AM, possibilities said:

OK, so it's true: the show is now all about the dudes, and the ladies are afterthoughts wedged in to check a box all about traditional mom stuff and they can't even do that without their kid feeling like she desperately needs a dad.

P.S. some lesbians ran for office taking the gay seats because the gay guys died tragically but the survivor dudes were willing to help the dykes get elected since they were too weak to run a new crop o'dudes due all being too sick because of the plague and off screen the women had taken care of the dying dudes, but we only get to see the caregiving the dudes themselves did, since women are boring and not really important anyway and we take them for granted and who cares?

I guess we'll just have to do another series if we don't want to make everything the women do into some marginalized stereotypical sexist afterthought.

And trans representation follows right along, because apparently there was nothing going on for trans people either, other than the one we showed being saved by hero dude and then serving as support for him later on.

P.S. Thailand accepts trans women way more than the USA does, so let's make a so-quick-you-might-miss-it reference to that.

The gay guys suffered so much and are so giving and heroic and can do everything from win elections to rescuing babies to leading revolutions, and their marriages are devotional and noble and they love each other perfectly from start to finish and still they suffer! The bashings and legal cruelties are unceasing! OMIGOD HOW COULD WE LOVE THEM MORE?!

Meanwhile, the women are never attacked. They are not legally denied anything. They are even treated decently by the traditional habit-wearing stern-looking nun. Their only problems are the bland issue of whether to try to pass at parents' night to appease a bratty teenager, and it turns out that wasn't really necessary either. Such a glowing bubble of ease around these lezzies of leisure. Even their election campaigns are marred only by their own surliness and a few sexist jabs from the queer dude who delivers them the win. The charmed lives of dykes! It's like they actually think this is representation!

Oh, and the lesbians don't have families either. Or if they do, we forgot to mention it. Having babies is enough, they don't need parents like the other characters, ALL the drama of acceptance and reconciliation MUST be shown via the other characters. Remember, lesbians being nurses and moms is the only thing we do that matters, and pinch hitting local political offices til the gay guys can repopulate.

Grow up, dudes!

Other than that, great.

Even after all these years, I can't see a photo of Matthew Sheppard without bursting into tears.

I'm not saying the gay dude stuff isn't great. But don't tell me they put a few token stereotype helpmeets in for females, and that = representation. It's a huge insult to us, and it's a horrible disservice not only to US, but also to the educational agenda they claim to have. Anyone watching this thinking it's LGBT history is getting a very skewed view that tries to convince us all that it isn't skewed.

It would have been ok with me if they were honest, and just told it as what it is. But they thought they could sell it better if they convinced people it was going to be more inclusive than Angels in America, so they did a bait and switch.

And this is why some lesbians don't want to coalition with gay dudes. It's because of the sexism and taking advantage and dismissal.

I was watching this SNL skit and it made me think about your post:

Basically, the idea that gay men are the interesting, fun ones, while lesbians are the emotional yet boring ones who only really care about communicating with their partners and raising babies. Lots and lots of babies.

Like, I GET why they focused on this story line, but I have to admit I felt like rolling my eyes when I saw one of them running down the street with a tube sock carrying sperm and all the talk about how they need to have babies.

[possibilities]

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2017/07/impact-lesbians-aids-activism-went-far-beyond-nursemaids-gay-men

Just saying....

[Corgi-ears]

So this got shut out of the Emmy nominations, huh?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Dustin Lance Black has a memoir called Mama's Boy. I'm not sure if it covers When We Rise, but I thought it might be of interest!