Bonanza - General Discussion

[David T. Cole]

Your favorite Bonanza moments and other episode memories.

http://i.imgur.com/vxzv9Mo.gif

[fishcakes]

It's only Monday but I'm pretty sure that GIF is going to be my favorite thing about this week.

I watched the last year or so of this show as a kid, but didn't remember anything about it and never watched it in reruns. Then a couple of months ago, I saw the season 4 DVD at my library, checked it for no discernible reason, and now I'm a little crazy over this show. It's got the right balance of decent writing and total cheese. Also, Adam Cartwright is crazy hot (yes, I realize he's like a hundred now, not to mention deceased). I've started at the beginning and am halfway through season 2. I love that almost everyone is wearing a toupee, that Little Joe gets into a fist fight within ten minutes of the start of any episode, and that the stunt doubles look nothing like the actors.

[fishcakes]

Poor Victor Sen Yung. Born in San Francisco. Forced to pronounce his Rs as Ls.

It's strange that Hop Sing was only in a handful of episodes, yet everyone remembers him. I just saw the episode, San Francisco, where we meet his cousins (none of whom have names, just numbers) and then the episode where Cousin Number One filled in for him at the Ponderosa. His cousin was the "Seinfeld, four!" guy! Now that I know that, it makes me love this scene that much more.

[LazyToaster]

I grew up on the show, the middle of three girls. My older sister decided that she loved Adam and that our little sister could love Little Joe, so that left me with Hoss. Funny thing was he really was - and still is my favorite! So silly, but fun memory.

[Guest]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[Blergh]

What was odd was that Adam's and Hoss's doomed mothers each had surviving kin yet had no problems with Ben taking their late daughter's/ late sister's baby boy to parts unknown- and NEVER attempted to visit them at the Ponderosa. Only Little Joe's hithero unknown uterine half-brother did so and that was only after he found out that his paternal grandmother faked his death so her hated daughter-in-law would vamoose New Orleans with Ben.

[Trooper York]

I don't think that is strictly true. I just saw an episode called "The Last Viking" where Hoss's Uncle made a visit. He was the head of a group of Comanchero's and ended up saving Little Joe and his date of the moment while getting killed in the attempt.

 

The uncle was played by the great character actor Neville Brand who you might remember as playing Al Capone in the original Untouchables TV movie.

[Blergh]

Interesting to know, Trooper York. Typical that they couldn't just let Hoss's Uncle visit without killing him.  Now why didn't Adam's maternal grandfather the sea captain ever bother to visit? Could he have just been confident that Adam would grow up to be  just as boring as his late daughter was?

[fishcakes]

In The Last Viking, they also mentioned that Hoss's uncle had visited a few times when Hoss was a boy. No idea about Adam's grandfather, but I suppose if Pernell Roberts had stayed on the show longer we might have seen him come to visit eventually. Considering how difficult it was to travel back then, it's understandable that we wouldn't be seeing relatives that often, even if any of the sons had had more than one maternal relative. The early seasons of the show were set in early 1860s; I think the train lines only ran as far west as Missouri and then you had to take a stagecoach the rest of the way.

Edited July 5, 2014 by fishcakes

[MaryMitch]

There are still a ton of Bonanza fans (and I am one). There are several active fan forums and fan gatherings in England, Germany, and recently Carson City NV. For SEVEN years blogger Rich Labonte ran a vote program where fans could vote hourly for their favorite shows; Bonanza ended up in 3rd place with over half a million votes - beating every show but "Firefly" and "Xena"   http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/

[MaryMitch]

Victor Sen Yung was in 100(!) Bonanza episodes, out of 430 total. But he was only "featured" - with guest star billing - in 2:

Season 10, episode 316 - Mark of Guilt - Hop Sing saves Little Joe from the hangman's noose with his knowledge of fingerprints

Season 13, episode 404 - The Lonely Man - Hop Sing gets a girlfriend

[fishcakes]

Oh, you're right. I just looked at the IMDb page and Hop Sing was in even more episodes than Roy Teal, which is surprising to me since I feel like I see Roy almost every week, but Hop Sing only when he's mad about something. It could be because I'm only up to the middle of season 6 right now, though; maybe his appearances become more frequent in the later seasons.

 

It's nice to know he had a girlfriend for a while. I assume that since he's an honorary Cartwright, she either dies or leaves town or both.

[MaryMitch]

It's nice to know he had a girlfriend for a while. I assume that since he's an honorary Cartwright, she either dies or leaves town or both.

 

Hop Sing goes off to pan for gold on his week off, and a white woman (Kelly Jean Peters) shows up. She seems shy and dumb - maybe even simple, but Hop Sing befriends her. Bang, they decide to get married, but find out that due to the laws it wouldn't be allowed. So she goes back to her home, "somewhere over the mountain."

 

What I dislike about the episode is that Hop Sing is way too good for the dopey "Missy". But love is blind, I guess.

BTW, I met Brent Young, Victor's son, in 2009. He's a really nice guy who is very proud of his father's legacy of film and television work.

[The Wild Sow]

I watched Bonanza this afternoon for the first time in a few years - it's on MeTV.

 

Caught 2 anachronisms!  A reference to Jack the Ripper (active in 1888), and Crippen (a doctor who murdered his wife - in 1910!)

 

Bonanza *is* set in the late 1860's, right?

[fishcakes]

That's a coincidence; I saw the Crippen episode yesterday too, but on DVD. I wouldn't count as an anachronism, though, because the only thing in common with the real murder case was the name Crippen. In the show, the doctor hadn't murdered his wife; instead a Mr. Crippen accused the doctor of murdering Mrs. Crippen, who had really only died during surgery. The main thing I learned from that episode is that Dan Blocker's back is super super hairy.

 

The timeline of the show is a little vague. I'm watching season 6 right now and Nevada is still a territory so this is before 1864. There was also a season 6 episode where they referred to Abraham Lincoln running for the Senate, which would have made it 1858. But then there was also an earlier season 4 episode, "The War Comes to Washoe," that took place during the Civil War, placing it after 1860. So I think it takes place roughly from late 1850s to late 1860s, but they aren't too particular about exactly when.

 

Has anyone watched the story arc where Adam almost marries Laura, the widow with the young daughter? That whole thing was very strange to me. It was supposed to be a sendoff for Pernell Roberts (but then he ended up staying another year), but why were they going to saddle him with such an unlikable, seemingly mentally unstable woman? It looked more like a big FU to the actor than anything else.

[MaryMitch]

That's a coincidence; I saw the Crippen episode yesterday too, but on DVD. I wouldn't count as an anachronism, though, because the only thing in common with the real murder case was the name Crippen. In the show, the doctor hadn't murdered his wife; instead a Mr. Crippen accused the doctor of murdering Mrs. Crippen, who had really only died during surgery. The main thing I learned from that episode is that Dan Blocker's back is super super hairy.

 

The timeline of the show is a little vague. I'm watching season 6 right now and Nevada is still a territory so this is before 1864. There was also a season 6 episode where they referred to Abraham Lincoln running for the Senate, which would have made it 1858. But then there was also an earlier season 4 episode, "The War Comes to Washoe," that took place during the Civil War, placing it after 1860. So I think it takes place roughly from late 1850s to late 1860s, but they aren't too particular about exactly when.

 

Has anyone watched the story arc where Adam almost marries Laura, the widow with the young daughter? That whole thing was very strange to me. It was supposed to be a sendoff for Pernell Roberts (but then he ended up staying another year), but why were they going to saddle him with such an unlikable, seemingly mentally unstable woman? It looked more like a big FU to the actor than anything else.

In general, the timeline is supposed to be 100 years prior to the filming time. But, as you note, there are inconsistencies, some of which are pretty glaring. Even in the same season, with episodes written by the same writer, there are contradictions.

 

As for Laura - her character never developed a personality, and there was no chemistry between her and Adam.  Too bad Adam couldn't just keep Peggy.

[fishcakes]

As for Laura - her character never developed a personality, and there was no chemistry between her and Adam.  Too bad Adam couldn't just keep Peggy.

 

Oh, I loved Peggy too. Just Adam and Peggy actually would have been a good resolution. They should have written it so he married Laura who, like all Cartwright wives, died tragically shortly thereafter, leaving Adam to take Peggy away to raise her in Australia or wherever it was he went when he finally left.

 

I agree about the lack of chemistry, but I also think it's strange that they wrote Laura the way they did. In The Waiting Game, she seems mentally unbalanced; in The Cheating Game, she's angry all the time and kind of stupid; in The Pressure Game, she's manipulative and mean; and in Triangle, she causes her fiance to fall off the roof of the house he's building for her when she shows up to tell him she's dumping him for his cousin. Although I did enjoy Adam's non-reaction when he found out Laura and Will were in love. It was basically, "huh. Oh well. Guess I'll start walking again!"

[MaryMitch]

Here's a "recent" interview with the actress who played Peggy, Katie Sweet:

http://www.tvdads.com/tvdkatiesweet.shtml

 

(I can't tell when this was done; since she was in Bonanza in 1963, and this shows her with youngish kids, I'm thinking maybe early 80s)

[fishcakes]

That's a good interview; she certainly had an interesting childhood and I like that she mentioned that most child stars end up just fine. And although she later in the interview mentions Jodie Foster and Ron Howard, it was hilarious that one of the first things she said was that not all former actors have enduring fame, "like Mickey Dolenz." Which, heh. Because when I think of the Monkees, I think "Davy Jones ... and those other guys." I'll have to look for her next time I see The Birds. I assume she was one of the adorable moppets running from the schoolhouse screaming.

[buttersister]

I like to think that Deadwood's Wu was a tribute to Hop Sing.

[fishcakes]

I like to think that Deadwood's Wu was a tribute to Hop Sing.

 

I completely forgot Deadwood exists. I've never seen it even though it sounds like something I'd love. I'll have to get the first season.

[MaryMitch]

Every now and then you hear a current cultural reference to Bonanza - share yours here!

 

 

from a December 2012 Entertainment weekly article about "Django Unchained":
 

Michael Landon's character on the 1959-73 TV Western Bonanza inspired one of Django's costumes. "That 'Little Joe' green jacket is a cool, sexy, all-purpose jacket," Tarantino says. "So we took the idea of it and fitted it to Jamie [Foxx]. And it looked pretty cool."

 

[fishcakes]

This isn't current (it's from 1987), but here are a couple of scenes from Tin Men, which I really should watch again.

 

 

 

[MaryMitch]

Current enough!

 

He's wanting the Cartwrights to talk about sex? Geez, they didn't even have a bathroom!

[fishcakes]

Ha, it is a weird thing to complain about considering that movie is set in the 60s. No one talked about sex on TV then. It's not as if we heard Marshall Dillon regularly telling Chester how he was really going to give it to Miss Kitty as soon as they got back to Dodge.

[fishcakes]

Again not super current, but this was how I found out there were lyrics to the theme song. Many years later, I mentioned it to a friend who said, "there are lyrics? I thought it was just 'da da da da da da da da da BONANZA!"

 

[MaryMitch]

The theme song was sung by Ben, Hoss, and Joe in the pilot. Thankfully it was cut. The pilot was bad enough without this ending!

 

[fishcakes]

Ha. All that yipping is just embarrassing. Not as embarrassing as the boys fighting over Lily Munster, but still. In general, the first few episodes were not so great, although I did love how at least once in every episode someone would sneer disdainfully about "the high and mighty Cartwrights."

[VCRTracking]

Saw the episode "War Comes To Washoe" recently and was like "Oh, that's right, the show is supposed to be set during the Civil War!" I always forget that. It's weird that there weren't that many episodes that dealt with that.

Edited March 2, 2015 by VCRTracking

[VCRTracking]

Not really a modern culture reference but Dan Blocker's son Dirk, who's appeared in bit roles on TV since his dad died in the 70s(including a memorable role as an illiterate teenager in Little House on the Prairie) is a regular cast member on the FOX sitcom Brooklyn Nine Nine, as "Hitchcock" one of two incompetent detectives in the precinct along with "Scully":

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEhSLGJYpCA

[fishcakes]

I always feel a little sad when I see Dirk Blocker on Brooklyn Nine Nine, if only because he's so much older now than his dad was when he died, and he looks so much like him. He's like a smaller, older twin. I'm sure I've seen him in other things over the years, but the only one I can remember is an episode of MASH where he played a wounded GI whose girlfriend sent him a Dear John letter with a request that he return her picture. So Hawkeye went around and collected pictures of wives and girlfriends from everyone in the camp and wrote a letter for him saying, "I can't remember which one is you, so could you please take your picture and return the rest?"

[MaryMitch]

I always feel a little sad when I see Dirk Blocker on Brooklyn Nine Nine, if only because he's so much older now than his dad was when he died, and he looks so much like him. He's like a smaller, older twin. I'm sure I've seen him in other things over the years, but the only one I can remember is an episode of MASH where he played a wounded GI whose girlfriend sent him a Dear John letter with a request that he return her picture. So Hawkeye went around and collected pictures of wives and girlfriends from everyone in the camp and wrote a letter for him saying, "I can't remember which one is you, so could you please take your picture and return the rest?"

I've never seen that MASH episode, but that's pretty funny!

 

Dirk was also a regular on "Black Sheep Squadron." If you get MeTV, it's on Sunday, 7pm (eastern time).

 

He was also on a "Little House on the Prairie" episode, starring his dad's buddy Michael Landon; it was one of his first acting roles. He was around 16 at the time. (I got that from his IMDB entry http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0088781/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t12 )

[fishcakes]

Looking at his imdb page, he's been in a lot of things I've seen, but I have no memory of him. Even in Deadwood, which I just saw for the first time last year, although it looks like he was just in one episode.

 

We used to get MeTV here but it's been replaced by something called GritTV, which, as near as I can tell, is just Charles Bronson movies.

[VCRTracking]

I remember an episode of Roseanne where she's excited about Bonanza rerun on TV. To her husband Dan(John Goodman) "It's the one where Hoss finds the Leprecauns!" Years later I finally saw the episode she was talking about and it was a fun episode!

 

Here's the Roseanne episode(3.11 "Do You Know Where Your Parents Are?"). The Bonanza mention is at 19:54

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mks2aJBS8zs

[MaryMitch]

INSP has started playing the "lost episodes", Saturday night 11pm and midnight (Eastern time).

 

Bonanza was split into 2 packages for syndication. MeTV and TVLand play the more popular set - all but one episode from seasons 1-6, and about half the episodes from seasons 8-11. The other set was shown (full and uncut) for a while on Encore Western, and is being shown on INSP.

[VCRTracking]

When I first started watching Bonanza reruns in the 90s, it was mostly from the first six seasons package. So that's Bonanza to me, with all that kind of late 50s, early 60s look and feel with Adam and the outside of the house looking like a set. I first saw the later seasons from the early 70s and it was weird and not just because of the kid they added. It actually looked like a Little House on the Prairie episode, with Landon's hair long and the filming style was similar which makes sense the crew on LHOTP came from Bonanza.

[fishcakes]

So far, I've only watched the first six seasons on DVD since I don't get any of the stations that are showing the reruns. I know seasons 7 and 8 are on DVD, but I've been putting off buying them because the price hasn't dropped yet, there's no Adam, and with Michael Landon's increased influence I'm afraid there will be a lot more crying in every episode.

[MaryMitch]

If you do get Season 7, there is a guest commentary for "All Ye His Saints" by Clint Howard (who played the little boy) and Rance Howard (Clint and Ron Howard's father).  Did you know "All Ye His Saints" was originally written as an Adam episode? But due to the location weather they could not film that episode, and of course Pernell Roberts left the series after season 6.

 

I just checked, and the season 7 set is $45 on Amazon.  The original price of $76 is outrageous, but I think $45 is reasonable considering you're getting 32 episodes plus extras.

[fishcakes]

$45 is reasonable, but I'm waiting to see if this is Amazon's lowest price. It used to be $33, but they've stopped doing the release day discounts on older TV series, so I think they're trying to do a price hike across the board. (I just this week got the 11th season of Gunsmoke for $56, after waiting months for it drop down from $90.) The 8th season won't be released until June, so if the season 7 price doesn't drop after that, then I think $45 is the minimum.

[VCRTracking]

From The Simpsons season 17, episode 2 "The Girl Who Slept Too Little"(2005) where they move the graveyard behind the Simpsons house right outside Lisa's window and she's afraid to sleep in her bed:

 

[MaryMitch]

Well, they DID always have a bowl of apples on the table by the fireplace, so obviously they DID like apples...

 

Boy, the Simpsons have been around a long time, haven't they? Season 17 in 2005!

[VCRTracking]

A thread dedicated to my favorite character on the show, Eric "Hoss" Cartwright, middle son of Ben Cartwright played by Dan Blocker. A big man with a bigger heart.

[pandora spocks]

Hoss was always my favorite Cartwright. Dan Blocker played him with a perfect combination of toughness and tenderness. Hoss probably brought home stray kittens and beat the hell out of the other kids who ridiculed him for it.

[MaryMitch]

I think everyone has a soft spot for Hoss. I think the writers all identified with him too; he got some great story lines!

[VCRTracking]

 

Hoss was always my favorite Cartwright. Dan Blocker played him with a perfect combination of toughness and tenderness. Hoss probably brought home stray kittens and beat the hell out of the other kids who ridiculed him for it.

 

As mentioned in the episode with George Kennedy, Hoss had a habit of bringing home hardluck cases(who end up ripping the Cartwrights off!). Adam: "He's been bringing strays home ever since he was old enough to walk."

[VCRTracking]

Bonnie Bedelia(Die Hard, Parenthood series) I knew she was Little Joe's ill-fated bride in the famous two-part "Forever" but she appeared in an earlier episode in 1969 "The Unwanted" playing a marshall's daughter who falls in love with a young ex-con(Jan Michael Vincent. Since she doesn't get involved with any of the Cartwrights she gets to survive this time! She was very young at the time, 21 and looked very cute.

[MaryMitch]

You probably know that "Forever" was written by Michael Landon, originally intended to be a "Hoss" episode. After Dan Blocker's death, he re-wrote it to be a "Joe" story.

 

I have always wondered if Bonnie Bedelia was cast before Dan Blocker's death. I think her character was much more suited to Hoss; she just seemed too sweet and even-tempered for Joe.

[fishcakes]

Even though I watched Bonanza every week as a kid, Forever is the only episode I remember from back then. I remember being shocked by Alice's death -- I was only 9 so I didn't know enough Cartwright history to know that marrying into the family equals an early demise -- and super sympathetic to poor Little Joe (I also hadn't caught on to the fact that he cries in pretty much every episode of every show he's ever been in).

[MaryMitch]

 I remember being shocked by Alice's death ...

 

I didn't watch "Bonanza" growing up - we were a "Gunsmoke" household. But I do remember the previews: "A Cartwright finally gets married!"  And I remember a lot of people talking about how mad they were that Alice died. They wanted Joe to have a family of his own.

 

I guess he eventually DID get his own "Little House."

[fishcakes]

I think I was the only one who watched Bonanza, as we were a Gunsmoke house too. By the early 70s, Gunsmoke wasn't that great, though. I don't think I noticed it at the time, but I've seen a few episodes here and there recently, and it's mostly just two minutes of Matt at the beginning and end and the bulk of the episode being centered around Festus. Festus is okay, but I didn't really become a fan of the show until I saw the earliest episodes with Chester.

 

And I remember a lot of people talking about how mad they were that Alice died.

 

I had to look up the episode on IMDb to get the character's name and people on the forums there are still mad about it. Forty years later and they're still up in arms that a Cartwright wife died, which makes me think they're unclear on the whole concept.