S01.E11: Jeffrey MacDonald: The Accused

[Drogo]

The Jeffrey MacDonald case is recalled. He was accused of the 1970 murders of his wife and two children in their house at Fort Bragg, N.C., but claimed the crime was committed by murderous hippies.

[Guest]

This episode aired last night or did I imagine watching it? 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Guest

[Drogo]

Our sources say this episode will debut 1/15, but I do see TV Guide has this episode moved up to 1/9.  Thread is unlocked and open for discussion.

[Guest]

For anyone who missed it (and I wouldn't say you're missing anything): this episode was nothing more than a cheerleading attempt to exonerate Jeffrey MacDonald. There is no mystery here to be solved. 

[Guest]

Bringing this over from the Aftershow thread:

Quote

MacDonald did not have some 23 stab wounds nor was he "left for dead."  Kristen was stabbed more than 17 times. MacDonald had many more than the reported 1 one night stand. They didn't mention that Helena recanted her confession.  They didn't mention that the hair found grasped in Colette's hand was MacDonald's.  They didn't mention that no splinters from the club were in the living room, no blood in the living room other than the smear on the magazine and the drop on his glasses.  They didn't mention that Kimberley's blood was found in the master bedroom, Colette's blood in Kristen's room, scrapes from the club in Kristen's room although Kristy was not struck with the club.  They incorrectly reported that MacDonald was stabbed with the icepick; MacDonald himself always said he saw the glint of a "blade." They didn't report on testimony from neighbors, family and friends that neither MacDonald nor Colette seemed happy in those months leading up to the murders. They didn't report that MacDonald had been taking Eskatrol.  They didn't report that it was a cold, rainy night and no mud, footprints or water had been brought in by the alleged intruders. They claimed the lab lost the bloody footprint in Kristen's room rather than the truth which was the boards separated when they attempted to remove it.  They didn't report that MacDonald lied to Freddie about killing one of the intruders.  They didn't show the clip from the Cavett show where MacDonald was laughing, nor report that Cavett himself felt MacDonald's affect was all wrong. 

Gah.  So many things left unanswered and incorrectly reported.  Those I listed are just some.  I imagine people might watch this program and feel that MacDonald was unjustly convicted.

THANK YOU. That was an abomination of a show last night. I'm sure someone with zero knowledge of this case now thinks MacDonald was just railroaded by the justice system when he most certainly was not. There is a metric fuck ton of evidence against him and absolutely nothing to suggest - save for his word - that "crazed hippies" did it. 

And there has been DNA tested post trial! The show seemed to keep insisting that poor Jeffrey kept getting denied his right to have the material tested. Per Wikipedia:

Quote

On September 2, 1997, the district court granted MacDonald's motion to file a supplemental affidavit with the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals.[49] Lawyers representing him were given the right to pursue DNA tests on limited hair and blood evidence on October 17, 1997 by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals.[50] Testing began in December 2000. Defense lawyers hoped that the results would tie Stoeckley and her associate Greg Mitchell to the scene.

DNA test results released by the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory on March 10, 2006, showed that neither Stoeckley's nor Mitchell's DNA matched any of the tested exhibits. A limb hair found stuck to Colette's left palm matched MacDonald's DNA profile. It also matched hairs found on the bedspread from the master bed and on the top sheet of Kristen's bed. A hair found in Colette's right palm was sourced as her own. Three hairs, one from the bedsheet, one found in her body outline in the area of her legs, and one found beneath Kristen's fingernail did not match the DNA profile of any MacDonald family member or known suspect

Please shut up and enjoy rotting in jail forever, Jeffrey. 

I'm also wondering since his Wiki entry also cites an upcoming remaking of Fatal Vision airing on ID whether this was some preemptory special to make it seem like ID "wasn't taking a side." And, next week, ID is apparently waving around the "OJ's INNOCENT!" show as well because nothing can ever be a settled matter anymore. Well, OJ and MacDonald are settled matters. They're both guilty of multiple murders. 

[psychoticstate]

Not realizing there were episode threads (doh!), here is what I posted in the Aftershow thread.

Regarding the show last night on the MacDonald murders (i.e., the "Fatal Vision" case.) 

Given they titled the show and MacDonald "the Accused," no surprise that the program was almost completely one-sided.  Did anyone on staff read the Article 32 transcript hearing?  Did they read the autopsy reports?  Did they view crime scene photos?  

MacDonald did not have some 23 stab wounds nor was he "left for dead."  Kristen was stabbed more than 17 times. MacDonald had many more than the reported 1 one night stand. They didn't mention that Helena recanted her confession.  They didn't mention that the hair found grasped in Colette's hand was MacDonald's.  They didn't mention that no splinters from the club were in the living room, no blood in the living room other than the smear on the magazine and the drop on his glasses.  They didn't mention that Kimberley's blood was found in the master bedroom, Colette's blood in Kristen's room, scrapes from the club in Kristen's room although Kristy was not struck with the club.  They incorrectly reported that MacDonald was stabbed with the icepick; MacDonald himself always said he saw the glint of a "blade." They didn't report on testimony from neighbors, family and friends that neither MacDonald nor Colette seemed happy in those months leading up to the murders. They didn't report that MacDonald had been taking Eskatrol.  They didn't report that it was a cold, rainy night and no mud, footprints or water had been brought in by the alleged intruders. They claimed the lab lost the bloody footprint in Kristen's room rather than the truth which was the boards separated when they attempted to remove it.  They didn't report that MacDonald lied to Freddie about killing one of the intruders.  They didn't show the clip from the Cavett show where MacDonald was laughing, nor report that Cavett himself felt MacDonald's affect was all wrong. 

Gah.  So many things left unanswered and incorrectly reported.  Those I listed are just some.  I imagine people might watch this program and feel that MacDonald was unjustly convicted.

 

Beyond the piles of evidence against MacDonald, he has had more bites of the legal apple than anyone.  As @Giant Misfit pointed out, DNA tests have been done.  There is zero evidence that points to any intruders.  What group hellbent on killing a family would show up there with no weapons?  Each of the murder weapons came from the MacDonald residence.  Why would these intruders attack a pregnant woman and two little girls BEFORE attacking MacDonald, their greatest threat?  Why overkill two small children and leave MacDonald with a bump on the forehead, some scratches on the bicep and one clean incision to the chest area?  If MacDonald was seated on the couch, as he claims, fighting off three male intruders, how did they even manage to give him a stab wound, much less a clean one, to his chest?  

The "mystery hair" the show mentioned has been determined to potentially have come from one of the children's dolls.  And even if not the dolls, Colette herself wore falls, then popular at the time.  So the presence of a wig hair does little with the mountain of other evidence.   

The show also neglected to mention that Colette had called her mother that day, wanting to come home (New York) with the children.  Take that in connection with the pile of children's clothes found in the hallway, Colette's own belongings shoved in a dresser drawer and a suitcase found in the master bedroom with no blood on it, despite blood all around it and I would take that as the possibility that she could indeed have been planning to leave, MacDonald had unpacked the suitcase after the murders and forgot to put the suitcase away. 

And beyond all that, why on earth wasn't MacDonald screaming to high heaven for help when he regained consciousness and found his family?  During his Article 32 hearing he said that he didn't go to the neighbors because he didn't know them that well.  Say what??  Who cares if you know someone or not when your family has been butchered.  Wouldn't you be screaming for help, if not for yourself then certainly for your family?  

The show also neglected to mention that the heartbroken MacDonald was having sexual relations with a woman while staying in his BOQ room during the Article 32 hearing, which began a mere 2 months after the murders.  Boy, sure seems like that MacDonald marriage was rock solid, huh?  And MacDonald filed a claim for property damage and items stolen, such as a coat belonging to Colette, some jewelry, etc. that was later found to have been in the apartment.

Jeffrey MacDonald is NOT the victim here.  Do any kind of internet research and you will find plenty of information on both sides of the case.  Reserve your sympathy for Colette, Kimberley and Kristen. 

[psychoticstate]

54 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

And, next week, ID is apparently waving around the "OJ's INNOCENT!" show as well because nothing can ever be a settled matter anymore. Well, OJ and MacDonald are settled matters. They're both guilty of multiple murders. 

Yeah, this "Is OJ Innocent?" is insulting to the victims and to my intelligence.  "The Missing Evidence?"  What missing evidence?  There was an overload of evidence in that case.   Every bit of it pointed to one person and only one person.   Despite the ability of Simpson's defense team to perform any and all tests known to man, they were never able to say the tests identifying the blood at the crime scene as Simpson's and the blood found in his car and residence as Ron's and Nicole's were incorrect.  Nor were they able to say the tests determining the hair found in the cap by the bodies being Simpson's was wrong. Because they're not.   No one else had a motive to kill Nicole and she was clearly the intended target.  No one else's blood was found there.  Who else in the LA area had a bad cut to his hand sometime after the recital and before getting on a plane at LAX?  Who else left their blood at the crime scene?  Who else had hte victims' blood in his vehicle and residence?  Who also had threatened and stalked his ex-wife?  And who didn't ask how his ex-wife had been killed when he was informed?  

Sorry - - it just infuriates me! 

[azshadowwalker]

On 1/10/2017 at 10:04 AM, Giant Misfit said:

For anyone who missed it (and I wouldn't say you're missing anything): this episode was nothing more than a cheerleading attempt to exonerate Jeffrey MacDonald. There is no mystery here to be solved. 

I expected that it would be. The Kassabs are dead now, so anything about MacDonald will only have his cheerleaders included. I didn't watch because I have seen enough takes on the case. The show was unnecessary and uninteresting. MacDonald and his laughable "acid is groovy, kill the pigs" story can rot in prison, then moulder in the grave. Seriously, who comes up with that shit? That story alone would make me doubt him. It was the kind of silly, stereotypical garbage someone with no experience in the drug world would make up. Total Reefer Madness stupidity. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by azshadowwalker

[Ilovecomputers]

Just want to add my two cents here and say that Helena Stoeckly [sp] once remarked, when seeing photos of the crime scene, that the murders looked like they might have been committed by someone on speed, rather than LSD, and MacDonald's own notes indicate he had been taking a certain diet pill (long since banned for sale in the U.S.) for weeks before the murders which was known to cause psychotic behavior in some people. 

I don't know why this case continues to fascinate me.  I have poured over so many of the grand jury and trial transcripts (online) and read so many books and articles about it because I thought I would find a crucial piece of information that might have been overlooked--just something that Jeffrey MacDonald couldn't deny, couldn't appeal, couldn't wiggle his way out of. 

Quote

and a suitcase found in the master bedroom with no blood on it, despite blood all around it and I would take that as the possibility that she could indeed have been planning to leave, MacDonald had unpacked the suitcase after the murders and forgot to put the suitcase away. 

I read in "Fatal Vision" that Paul Stombaugh stated that the suitcase contained clothing of MacDonald's, leading some to speculate that he considered fleeing after the murders. 

[psychoticstate]

@Ilovecomputers, I am in the same boat with you.  I have been fascinated by this case since seeing the miniseries and reading FV back in 1984.  I even briefly entertained the idea for a while that he might not be guilty - - and then I read the Article 32 hearing transcript in its entirety.  That took care of that.

I have posted about this on other sites and written about it on my blog but for me, this is one piece of information that MacDonald simply cannot explain away. Per his own story, he had struggled with the assailants on the living room sofa; his feet were bound up in the afghan and his hands were tied up in his pajama top, which had been pulled from behind over his head (despite the tear being down the front.)  He claims that he was struck possibly more than once by what he took to be a baseball bat.  He then said he saw the glint of a blade and felt what he assumed was a punch and later came to believe was a stab wound or wounds.   He then lost consciousness and upon regaining consciousness later, did his rounds to check on his family.  

During an interview conducted while at Womack Hospital he said "that is when I must have gotten stabbed with the icepick." 

How did he know an icepick was involved at all?  He saw the "glint" of a "blade."  That would insinuate a knife, not an icepick.  The icepick was found outside, with the Old Hickory knife and the club.  The only knife found inside, the one MacDonald claims to have removed from his wife's chest, was not used to kill anyone and had never been in her chest.  The weapons found outside were out the back door, not the front door where MacDonald was wheeled out to an ambulance.  He claimed he never left the apartment after the murders, before the MPs arrived.  He claimed he did not see the attacks on his wife and daughters. So how did he know there was an icepick?  Unless of course he was the one wielding it on his family.

He also claimed that the icepick did not come from his home, despite friends and family testifying that they had indeed used or seen an icepick while in the residence - - and despite the other weapons coming from the home.

[Ilovecomputers]

@psychoticstate:  What a pleasure it is to hear the ideas of someone as obsessed as I.  Would love to read your blog--can you post or private message a link?  You make an interesting observation about his apparent knowledge about the icepick.  I doubt any of the first responders knew what--other than knife wounds--had caused the injuries to Colette and the children.  Why do you suppose he placed his pajama top on Colette and stabbed her with the icepick?  That has always struck me as strange.  Another odd thing, in a whole lot of odd things, is the fact that he was adamant that Kimberly didn't wet the bed, even though it was later proven through forensics that it was indeed Kimberly's urine on their bedsheet.  In one of his statements, MacDonald said he looked out the window during the night of the murders.  I have always believed he happened to see the woman with the floppy hat standing on the corner, just as MP Mica did and she became MacDonald's scapegoat.  Have you read this?  http://www.statementanalysis.com/macdonald/?  Thought you might find it interesting.

[psychoticstate]

5 hours ago, Ilovecomputers said:

@psychoticstate:  What a pleasure it is to hear the ideas of someone as obsessed as I.  Would love to read your blog--can you post or private message a link?  You make an interesting observation about his apparent knowledge about the icepick.  I doubt any of the first responders knew what--other than knife wounds--had caused the injuries to Colette and the children.  Why do you suppose he placed his pajama top on Colette and stabbed her with the icepick?  That has always struck me as strange.  Another odd thing, in a whole lot of odd things, is the fact that he was adamant that Kimberly didn't wet the bed, even though it was later proven through forensics that it was indeed Kimberly's urine on their bedsheet.  In one of his statements, MacDonald said he looked out the window during the night of the murders.  I have always believed he happened to see the woman with the floppy hat standing on the corner, just as MP Mica did and she became MacDonald's scapegoat.  Have you read this?  http://www.statementanalysis.com/macdonald/?  Thought you might find it interesting.

I will send you a PM about my blog, ilovecomputers. 

Another interesting point about the icepick wounds is that MacDonald said himself that he did not turn on the lights in either daughter's bedroom nor in the master bedroom.   Disregarding that is makes no sense for a doctor to not turn on the lights (or a caring family member, actually) I would think in the dark and with all the blood, MacDonald himself could not have distinguished knife wounds from icepick wounds.  Or maybe any kind of wound, period.  I have seen crime scene pictures with the bodies still in place - - it was such a bloody scene, I don't know that it would be evident until the bodies were washed.

I think MacDonald threw his pj top on Colette because it had already been stained with her blood and with Kimberley's blood.  In order to explain its condition, I think he placed it on his wife - - he also could have done that because in its torn and bloody condition, it was a hindrance.  Regardless, he clearly didn't realize that after he had done that and then stabbed Colette through that top, the puncture wounds could then be lined up with his top,  Colette's pajama top and her chest. 

It is strange that he was so adamant about Kristen wetting the bed and not Kimberley.  I think it's likely because he wanted to get Kimberley out of that bedroom.  What I mean by that is that it's possible the fatal argument started because Kimberley had wet the bed.  It's possible that MacDonald and Colette were arguing about something else and Kimberley was there and wet the bed out of fear.  I've also heard that Freddy Kassab theorized that MacDonald may have been molesting his eldest daughter.  No proof of that so far as we know but if that was the case, it would make sense that the little girl would wet the bed and MacDonald would not want to admit to her being in there.  It would also make sense that such a potential discovery could lead to the explosive fight. 

It's certainly possible that MacDonald had seen the woman in the floppy hat at some point during the evening.  It's possible he had seen her around the base before.  The description MacDonald gave was not that unusual for the time period.  The only thing I am certain of with regard to the woman Ken Mica saw was that she had nothing to do with the murders.

Yes!  I have seen that link on statement analysis.  It's fascinating! 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Ilovecomputers said:

Have you read this?  http://www.statementanalysis.com/macdonald/?  Thought you might find it interesting.

Thanks for this! I'd never seen it (and clearly, good old People magazine and their "investigation" never saw it either /eyeroll). 

Glad I'm not the only one who saw Fatal Vision (and read it, too) back in the 80s. I can never not see Gary Cole as MacDonald. Even when he was playing Mike Brady, I was still waiting for him to kill everyone in sight and blame it on Johnny Bravo.

[Ilovecomputers]

Ah, Gary Cole.  Remember the show where he played the DJ/crime investigator? 

I have been thinking about watching the People show on demand but there have been so many negative comments about it I wonder if I would be wasting my time.  Do they have any new interviews with Jeff or Kathryn?  Jeff's second wife must drive him crazy--good!--because I think she is responsible for a lot of his late court filings.  If that were you or I filing things late, we would probably have our appeal dismissed, but, you know, poor Jeff always seems to get all the breaks.

[psychoticstate]

3 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Thanks for this! I'd never seen it (and clearly, good old People magazine and their "investigation" never saw it either /eyeroll). 

Glad I'm not the only one who saw Fatal Vision (and read it, too) back in the 80s. I can never not see Gary Cole as MacDonald. Even when he was playing Mike Brady, I was still waiting for him to kill everyone in sight and blame it on Johnny Bravo.

HA!  The Mike Brady/Johnny Bravo comment is gold.

Love Gary Cole.  He is a terrific actor.  He played the hell out of MacDonald and I think he got it exactly right.  

1 hour ago, Ilovecomputers said:

Ah, Gary Cole.  Remember the show where he played the DJ/crime investigator? 

I have been thinking about watching the People show on demand but there have been so many negative comments about it I wonder if I would be wasting my time.  Do they have any new interviews with Jeff or Kathryn?  Jeff's second wife must drive him crazy--good!--because I think she is responsible for a lot of his late court filings.  If that were you or I filing things late, we would probably have our appeal dismissed, but, you know, poor Jeff always seems to get all the breaks.

Midnight Caller!  I loved that show.  Was very disappointed that it only lasted a season.

Nothing new on the People program.  Kathryn is probably busy dealing with her own legal issues.  

MacDonald has been given breaks time and again. The case should have legally ended years ago.  No excuse for the late filings - - even if Kathryn is doing the filing for him, she was allegedly a paralegal at one point.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ilovecomputers said:

have been thinking about watching the People show on demand but there have been so many negative comments about it I wonder if I would be wasting my time.

Trust me, you'll be wasting your time -- unless you're Mrs. Jeffrey MacDonald flop sweating her way to the computer to type up another appeal. 

(Speaking of a prison wife: I soooooo miss Prison Wives which was, IMO, the best show ever to air on ID. Think I'm gonna have to find that on streaming now!) 

[psychoticstate]

1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

Trust me, you'll be wasting your time -- unless you're Mrs. Jeffrey MacDonald flop sweating her way to the computer to type up another appeal. 

(Speaking of a prison wife: I soooooo miss Prison Wives which was, IMO, the best show ever to air on ID. Think I'm gonna have to find that on streaming now!) 

@Giant Misfit, you are a person after my own heart.  I loved Prison Wives and was so disappointed ID didn't pick it up.

[Ilovecomputers]

That's funny, Giant Misfit.  I've never heard the term "flop sweating" before.  Ha.  I know Mrs. got arrested for shoplifting, but what other legal troubles has she had?  Can you imagine being married to that lunatic?  Your phone would ring constantly with collect calls from JM.  "Be sure to add this.  Oh, and state again that if the lower court had allowed Helena to testify..."   Ugh.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

 I loved Prison Wives and was so disappointed ID didn't pick it up.

I'm pretty sure they never picked it up because it didn't rely on any reenactments which are the bread and butter of every shitty ID channel show. UGH. 

There was an American Justice based on MacDonald's murders that aired on A&E back in the late 80s/early 90s (if I'm recalling correctly). It did a pretty thorough job outlining the case. I wish they would rerun those old shows -- so much better than this dreck. 

[Ilovecomputers]

I am a little embarrassed to admit that I watched the American Justice shows on the MacDonald case via YouTube not long ago.  I believe they were taken down--maybe somebody at A & E complained about copyright or something.

They have that snippet of him appearing on the Dick Cavett show.  Freddy Kassab described MacDonald as "grinning like a Cheshire cat" and he wasn't too far off.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Ilovecomputers

[hoosiermom]

I too was obsessed with this case back in the day. I remember when I read FV I kind of went back and forth about his guilt but in the end I had no doubt he did it. Thank you all for your in depth posts and links. He apparently still thinks he is smarter than everyone else and by God he is going to prove it! To me, he is a smug, murdering asshole. Done and done.

[Guest]

It just now dawned on me the name of this show was "Jeffrey MacDonald: The Accused." It should have been "Jeffrey MacDonald, The Convicted." This jackass hasn't been accused of anything. He was accused of murder before he had a trial, at which he was ultimately convicted. 

Looking forward to next season of People magazine's "accused" murders whose guilt they attempt to whitewash -- maybe Charles Manson who, in a presto-chango, will turn the tables on MacDonald's "crazed hippies" defense and blame the Tate/LaBianco murders on a cult of Army surgeons. 

[Cheyanne11]

On 1/13/2017 at 8:46 AM, psychoticstate said:

MacDonald has been given breaks time and again. The case should have legally ended years ago.  No excuse for the late filings - - even if Kathryn is doing the filing for him, she was allegedly a paralegal at one point.

I don't understand how there are still filings happening here.  I remember when I read FV back in the '80's and I thought it was ridiculous that it took nine years before he was convicted.  Now we're closing in on 50 years since the crime and he's still got people doing his bidding.  

[Ilovecomputers]

Colette's brother (Bob Stevenson?) cooperates with a website that has a wealth of transcripts and court filings. I think the latest on the docket is a hearing this month on an appeal of Judge Fox's court order issued in July 2014.  Of course, if after hearing oral arguments MacDonald is ruled against, he will simply appeal that decision.  Brian Murtagh, a special prosecutor for the United States, has been with the case from the very beginning.  The Washington Post magazine profiled him in an article that appeared at about the same time as "Wilderness of Errors."  Told you I was obsessed. 

[kathyk24]

Amen I was disgusted the way this show tried to make MacDonald sympathetic. Why would brutal killers murder a two year old but leave a grown man alive? A two year old can't testify against  you in court while an adult can? I was too young to remember the case but I read Fatal Vision and saw the mini-series.

[Lisa418722]

Every time they tried to make it seem like he was really injured "He had a collapsed lung!!!" I just keep picturing how Colette was stabbed and how those little girls were brutally butchered, it made me want to throw something at the TV.  Yeah, he was in the hospital for 6 days (or was it the ICU), but that's back when you were kept in the hospital for a long time to give you a chance heal, especially if you were a doctor.  In today's world, insurance gives you 24-48 hours and then you are out of there. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Lisa418722

[azshadowwalker]

On 1/13/2017 at 1:07 PM, Giant Misfit said:

There was an American Justice based on MacDonald's murders that aired on A&E back in the late 80s/early 90s (if I'm recalling correctly). It did a pretty thorough job outlining the case. I wish they would rerun those old shows -- so much better than this dreck. 

Very late response, but check if you get Escape. They show old American Justice, Unsolved Mysteries and FBI Files. Haven't seen the MacDonald episode, but I have seen a lot of episodes I remember. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

Very late response, but check if you get Escape. They show old American Justice, Unsolved Mysteries and FBI Files.

Thank you! I will! (Doesn't sound familiar, unfortunately. I have Xfinity [Comcrap, by another name].)

[bubbls]

On 1/13/2017 at 8:43 AM, Ilovecomputers said:

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by bubbls
Was confused