S03.E05: Born to Set it Right

[formerlyfreedom]

On the eve of a very public appearance, the family’s private turmoil threatens to go public; Beck returns to the palace with his sights set on Eleanor, and a confrontation with Jasper ensues.

[omgsowicked]

Robert just proved why he's meant to be king. He knows how to play the game but also be congenial about it. Now that he's back, he makes #KingLiam look like a twerp. And somehow he managed to butter Cyrus up enough that he seemed rather cute (when really, he's abhorrent). Was there a line about Cyrus using Robert's mental health against him, publicly? I wonder what he knows. The only area Robert sucks in, at least to me, is with Liam. He never seems to notice Liam's pained, borderline constipated expression; he just slaps him on the shoulder and acts like it's all good. Maybe that's how he knows Liam to be or maybe he does notice the attitude and doesn't give a shit. Robert does seem to throw slight amounts of shade toward him in almost every conversation they have. I'm hoping that when they both have a meltdown (Robert re: his mental health and Liam re: Katherine and being shifted back in line), it changes how they interact because right now they have a weird vibe.

I disliked that both Liam and Eleanor's storylines mostly revolved around their romances. I mean, what else is new but seriously. At least Liam had some drama with Robert but even then it was all about Katherine. (Speaking of, I don't like her sister very much and I was surprised Katherine confided in her because I didn't think she liked her either.) I found the Jasper/Beck drama completely pointless. Didn't Eleanor and Beck break up because he wanted her to change (be more stable, healthy) and she didn't like that? It was a pretty sad breakup if I remember correctly, yet Beck came sauntering in like nothing happened. Even smoked a joint with her... it just didn't make sense. And I don't give a shit about two dudes having a dick measuring contest (guns versus royal titles).

I feel like nothing else happened... Helena and Eleanor had a genuine hug, which was lovely. What else? Oh, I could have sworn I saw Genevieve Gaunt's (Willow) name in the opening credits but she wasn't in the episode, was she?

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. nothing really happened tonight. And the EleanorBeck breakup was dramatic so the lack of that. Ring acknowledged was strange. I don't know. 

[GaT]

Any plot that revolves around who gets to be King is boring me. We've been dealing with the same thing since Simon died, Figure out who is King & move on already. 

[WhosThatGirl]

14 minutes ago, GaT said:

Any plot that revolves around who gets to be King is boring me. We've been dealing with the same thing since Simon died, Figure out who is King & move on already. 

Yeah I agree, but I fear this is where the show is going and I don't really care. Sad for me because I loved the first two episodes this season but everything is kind of boring now. 

[Slider]

Way late to the party, but found this show over Christmas break and just caught up to current episodes.  Really liked this one, and think the next episode will be just as good.  I have faith in "Jaspenor" only because this is Mark Schwann's show, and he was successful with Nathan and Haley on OTH.  They never became boring to me, and still had story lines.  Would like to see an Eleanor storyline take off, and I am enjoying Liam this season, though I wish Willow was around more.  I think it's going to be hard to convince her that #KingLiam is dead.  

Glad to see Beck's true colors, and to a certain extent, Robert's.  Not a fan of Robert's - he throws off the whole dynamic, but it adds to the story, so I'm okay with it.  

Pretty fast paced show.  They gloss over stuff that other shows wouldn't, but I almost like it this way more.  

 

Fingers crossed for a season 4! 

[kat165]

omg, good points about Robt. The public likes Liam, he's seemingly honest and down to earth and well intentioned. Robert, they seem to like him, but he is also smart & obviously capable of leading the country, Liam not so much.

I wish the Robt and Liam actors were more engaging but they have the most interesting storyline. I wish they'd gotten Tom Austen (Jasper) to play either Robert or Liam as they've got the more interesting storyline.

Yes, Robert never SEEMS to notice Liam's borderline constipated expression, but I wonder if he is aware and is not not acknowledging it. Just like he seems fine, but is sleeping on the floor. He also doesn't seem to interact with Liam in a geniune way. It's all brothers in arms but seems very shallow, that he doesn't quite get Liam nor does he seemt to care to. I'm picking up on that shade too.

And speaking of meltdowns, loved Liam bowling over Beck and attempting to beat the crap out of him. I think I enjoyed that even more than Cyrus did.

I was surprised too that Katherine confided in her sister. She seems too shallow and untrustworthy and doesn't seem like she'd be full of good advice!

I think the point of the Beck/Jasper drama was just to have J & E's relationship not be all rosy. It was just for the conflict. I wasn't interested either! I'm also not a big fan of romances and that people a character's only plotline as much as I like the Jasper/Lenny pairing which truthfully I'm only liking because I like the actors & Tom Austen makes me drool/swoon.

I'd like to see Lenny do some endorsements or something else besides Jasper and interacting with Sarah Alice. I'd like to see Liam other things to do besides Katherine. Was his relationship with Robt always filled with angst?

I really liked the interlude with Robt/Cyrus. Was interesting to see their relationship or at least hints of what it had been. Robt seems to be playing everyone. It doesn't seem geniune to me, I think, because I find the actor kind of smirky and untrustworthy.

The Lenny/Beck breakup was only sad to me because she was so messed up and he seemed to want better for her. He also didn't seem to be as giant an asshole as he has been on his return. He also looks more scruffy, which I personally prefer. But this doesn't seem to go along with the character as we first me him. At the time I don't think Lenny was ready to change and she wasn't attracted enough to Beck to be inspired to improve.

Although nothing really happened I think a few things were set up. Removing Cyrus from the throne and how; will Liam and Robt's relationship come to a head (either because of Katherine and our their natural sibling rivalry and any claims Liam might have had to the throne & what will he do now; what other/more discords will happen between Jasper & Lenny and will this relationship work out.

Yes, Genevieve Gaunt's name was in the credits. I noticed because I wondered who she plays and no, Willow was not in the ep. And what happens to her job now. Also, Robt mentioned taking over Liam's charities. What's this Liam to do? All this could really heat up and I think it's starting to but so far it's only come out in Liam going after Beck and Liam have some good shots at at the dart board - which reminds me, has Liam been holding back and letting Robt win at darts? Is he much better than he's been letting on?

I am not disappointed with the show because I expect nothing from it. It's just fluff to me so I'm able to enjoy it for what it is.

[methodwriter85]

I think they did a flip on Beck's character. Beck was a nice guy. He wasn't an asshole. I always kind of appreciated that they broke them up without making Beck the bad guy, and it kind of annoys me they needed to have him turn into a douche to advance the plot. Oh, well.

Robert is really good at manipulating everybody. I think he totally lied to Liam about Helena wanting him to take over Liam's charities because he knew that Liam would just accept it. That darts scene definitely had the air of Robert putting Liam in his place after he looked at all the #KingLiam stuff.

[kat165]

Yeah, I agree, method. He had been a nice guy. He seemed completely different this time around.

Re: dart scene with R & L, I had that same feeling. Which made me really curious as to what was going on in the dart scene at the end when Liam was alone and got a bullseye everytime. I wondered if he could have beaten Robt but held back and why?

[catrice2]

Can't comment on Beck as I was not watching then, but I would guess that they needed some drama in the Eleanor/Jasper relationship so they are wiling to change his character to fit that. 

All this episode did for me is highlight how they need to mature both Eleanor and Liam. I am not sure if they are supposed to be 18 or what.  I honestly can't get past the fact that the actress that plays the daughter looks so much older than Elizabeth Hurley.  Seriously, she looks so much like a lady of the night in her scenes that I don't get "passion, " but more like a professional at work.  She solves every problem with sex or drugs and I didn't even see all seasons and I am tired of it already.   She just has a hard look to her. 

I get so tired of people putting their issues on someone else.  Clearly Robert and Liam have a different type of relationship.  Robert strikes me as the type that has always played the role that was expected of him, and Liam  the same to up to a point. For them what that meant is Robert had certain expectations, and it they probably limited what he could do to  and fulfill his duties.  He keeps surface relationships because he is always playing a role.  He was probably indulged and Liam was regulated to the "younger brother" role- the in the shadows role, especially if your sibling was better at something than you.  For all his angst, I don't think Liam can handle the expectations that go along with being the heir apparent.   Robert get what he wants and the younger brother defers.   Many famous sibling have spoken about how the older one was always expected to be the best, lead the way, etc. and how difficult it was to step out of their sibling's shadow.  I would guess that both have been jealous of each other for different reasons.  In any family we all assume roles, and oddly enough even when time goes by we tend to fall back into those roles when we are around our family.  He probably is not even aware of how he treats people because no one has called him on it 

If that was not working for Liam he could have expressed this to Robert at any time in their relationship.  By being docile and letting Robert win and make all the decisions he is complicit in his own agony..such as the dart game or the charities. Why wouldn't he just say, "no I want to keep those," and then if the brother was pushy then it was on him. The way it played out, what does he have to be angry about? At this point Robert doesn't even know he is seeing the girl and if he is not willing to speak up for what he wants, oh well. 

They just showed him as a petulant little child drinking from a flask and responding to Beck with an immature fight.  Right now I think Robert should mind his own business, but as someone said in a previous thread it is only realistic that someone would have an issue with Jasper's past and investigate it.  His "redemption" was way to easy.  It would only make sense. He was a huge security risk and the possibility that someone from his past could always appear again is a real issue.  Of course for story reasons he is still at the palace, but the best way for him to show he is an equal is not to be in a role where he is servile to her or anyone in her family. Regardless of what it turned into,the fact remains is he came there to deceive and take advantage. 

I honestly don't know what happened with the girlfriend, but she seemed to indicate that Robert wanted to keep her a secret but Liam did not.  How long did she actually date Robert?   It would only be reasonable that he would keep her a secret  until things got more serious.  I agree with the comment about the sister. Common sense should have told her not to confide her situation with the brothers to her.  I am way more concerned about their sibling dynamic than Robert and Liam's.  Did I misunderstand,or did she indicate she did not sleep with Robert?

 Also, Cyrus is King, so what does Liam lose by Robert's return?  Or was Cyrus only king because they thought Liam was not the king's son?  Either way he goes back to his same position.

I actually thought Robert lied when he told Helena what he said to Cyrus. I was also not clear on whether or not he was behind Beck's treatment of Jasper.  I am sure he is destined to be crazy, or involved in the plot on his father's life or something just as drastic. 

[rur]

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

That darts scene definitely had the air of Robert putting Liam in his place after he looked at all the #KingLiam stuff.

I think Robert has always just taken what he wanted and expected Liam to go along: When they first both met Kat, Liam was already showing an interest in her, but that didn't stop Robert from calling "bagsies." That pretty much summed him up for me. However, I do think Liam is developing an ability to scheme, as evidenced by his dart game at the end of the episode.

4 hours ago, kat165 said:

 

The Lenny/Beck breakup was only sad to me because she was so messed up and he seemed to want better for her. He also didn't seem to be as giant an asshole as he has been on his return. He also looks more scruffy, which I personally prefer. But this doesn't seem to go along with the character as we first me him. At the time I don't think Lenny was ready to change and she wasn't attracted enough to Beck to be inspired to improve.

Had Lenny ever NOT just fallen onto her back for Beck before? Even for a friend of the family, going into the bedroom of a sleeping princess is a little . . . presumptuous. Maybe he didn't expect her to actually refuse his overtures. 

 

On the other hand, did anyone else find it at least a little visually ironic that Lenny would lecture someone on class while looking a bit more like a dominatrix than a princess? 

Edited January 10, 2017 by rur

[phoenics]

I love this show - though I think this episode was filler and setting things up for later.  I will say I'd like to see some intrigue/danger added back into the show - though I guess the show can't kill off another Simon and have that kind of mystery to drive it.

This episode clearly showed why Robert should be King.  He's the most capable, prepared and MATURE person for it.  He's the perfect combination of Simon and Helena.  PERFECT Combination.  Have we seen ANYONE handle Cyrus in such a way that Cyrus doesn't hate them in the end and vow revenge?  Helena is an amateur compared to Robert - who clearly learned something from Simon.  When Robert had that conversation with Cyrus, I knew he was kind of playing him - or at least, I realized that Robert knew how to talk to Cyrus in a way that he could get what he needed (and honestly deserved - he IS the rightful heir).

At my job, when we do performance evalutations, one of the things we look for is the kind of influence that Robert wielded.  He gave up something trivial for something more important and managed to do it with the other person thinking it was their idea.  It's manipulation, but it's the healthy kind.

Also - I think Robert truly WANTS to be King.  He doesn't have to warm up to it like Liam.  Liam for all of his whininess right now about having to be in the shadows, he never rose to the challenge when it was his chance to be King at all.  And it's not like he was ever ready to be King, no matter what Helena said right before Robert came back.  Liam was never ready.  Robert makes Liam look like a chump and that's without Liam acting like he is right now.  Robert clearly was born for this, raised for it and prepared himself for it.  He's at peace (seems to be) with his role and what is expected of him.  And he's really, really good at it.

Liam looks like a spoiled, petulant child.  WTH was with the flask?  Was that something he did before Robert died?  Drink?  And I agree with catrice2, if Liam has an issue, Liam needs to put on his big boy panties and say something.  Instead, he looks like he's going to just move on Kate even more in an attempt to steal her out from underneath Robert.  He's going to end up losing her AND the crown because he seems to be motivated less by really liking Kate and more by wanting to usurp his brother.  

About Kate:

I think Robert is/was keeping them a secret because of his duty (and probably because they haven't really dated that long - it's smart actually - pretty sure Prince Harry was trying to keep his relationship with Meghan Markle under wraps too because once that came out they both got hounded even more than he usually was).

But now, I think Liam is going to make her go from that, to having to be with him ALSO IN SECRET because they'll have to hide it from Robert for some time still.  Until Robert catches them.  

Kate's only real option at this point is to dump both of them.  She can't win.  Ever.  If she's honest with Robert, it really harms him and Liam and her honestly.  If she keeps it secret and stays with Robert, there's always the chance he'll find out (and how stupid was she sharing that with her sister?  That girl will spill the beans the moment she has a jealous moment or gets drunk.), or the lie will destroy their relationship anyway.  Or worse, she'll realize she wants Liam and have an affair, etc..  If she's honest, she could potentially dump Robert and date Liam, who wants to be with her more and won't keep her a secret, but it's still messy.

Eleanor and Jasper were hot in the throne room, but I kept worrying they'd be caught.  I think Robert's arrival adds an element of "realness" to this show in a way it didn't have before.  Before, Eleanor and Jasper in the throne room wouldn't have felt scandalous, but given Robert's presence, I actually worried about them getting caught and it causing Robert to actively work to break them up.

I don't think we are to assume Robert did anything to make Beck act crazy - he just revealed who Eleanor was dating, but didn't reveal any of his own thoughts on it - he was regally non-committal.  I don't like how they've rewritten Beck.  He seemed like a truly nice guy back in S1 and S2 (except for the whole married thing), and Jasper looked like the baddie.  But writing him as such a jerk was just a turnoff.

I'm a bit concerned they are doing the same with Liam too - he's immature and petulant anyway, but in this he is way, way more.  Drinking from the flask and acting a fool just felt way off to me and I'm usually critical of Liam.  I just don't like it when characters are shoved into a "villainous" corner to make another character look better.  Jasper doesn't need Beck to be an ass for drama.  And Liam doesn't have to be a really awful douche just to make Robert look good.  Robert looks fine and is interesting as-is and Liam was too - at least he seemed to be trying.  Now he's just a mess.

I used to see chemistry with Kate and Liam, but now with Liam acting like such a jerk, I find I cannot root for him at all - but I don't really want Kate with Robert either (want someone better for him).  At least with Ophelia, Liam seemed genuinely in love with her and concerned about her - now it feels like Kate has become a trophy for him.  No bueno.

Another note:  Robert seemed much more settled and in his zone than before - if he doesn't want Royal life with all the trappings, he's not showing it.  And I think that Cyrus was hypothesizing that his time on the island might have left him a bit unstable, but he doesn't know that or have any evidence of that.  Pretty sure once Robert finds out about Liam and Kate, he'll probably go off.  I really like Robert so I don't want to see him crack up permanently.

[methodwriter85]

2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Can't comment on Beck as I was not watching then, but I would guess that they needed some drama in the Eleanor/Jasper relationship so they are wiling to change his character to fit that. 

All this episode did for me is highlight how they need to mature both Eleanor and Liam. I am not sure if they are supposed to be 18 or what.  I honestly can't get past the fact that the actress that plays the daughter looks so much older than Elizabeth Hurley.  Seriously, she looks so much like a lady of the night in her scenes that I don't get "passion, " but more like a professional at work.  She solves every problem with sex or drugs and I didn't even see all seasons and I am tired of it already.   She just has a hard look to her. 

I get so tired of people putting their issues on someone else.  Clearly Robert and Liam have a different type of relationship.  Robert strikes me as the type that has always played the role that was expected of him, and Liam  the same to up to a point. For them what that meant is Robert had certain expectations, and it they probably limited what he could do to  and fulfill his duties.  He keeps surface relationships because he is always playing a role.  He was probably indulged and Liam was regulated to the "younger brother" role- the in the shadows role, especially if your sibling was better at something than you.  For all his angst, I don't think Liam can handle the expectations that go along with being the heir apparent.   Robert get what he wants and the younger brother defers.   Many famous sibling have spoken about how the older one was always expected to be the best, lead the way, etc. and how difficult it was to step out of their sibling's shadow.  I would guess that both have been jealous of each other for different reasons.  In any family we all assume roles, and oddly enough even when time goes by we tend to fall back into those roles when we are around our family.  He probably is not even aware of how he treats people because no one has called him on it 

If that was not working for Liam he could have expressed this to Robert at any time in their relationship.  By being docile and letting Robert win and make all the decisions he is complicit in his own agony..such as the dart game or the charities. Why wouldn't he just say, "no I want to keep those," and then if the brother was pushy then it was on him. The way it played out, what does he have to be angry about? At this point Robert doesn't even know he is seeing the girl and if he is not willing to speak up for what he wants, oh well. 

They just showed him as a petulant little child drinking from a flask and responding to Beck with an immature fight.  Right now I think Robert should mind his own business, but as someone said in a previous thread it is only realistic that someone would have an issue with Jasper's past and investigate it.  His "redemption" was way to easy.  It would only make sense. He was a huge security risk and the possibility that someone from his past could always appear again is a real issue.  Of course for story reasons he is still at the palace, but the best way for him to show he is an equal is not to be in a role where he is servile to her or anyone in her family. Regardless of what it turned into,the fact remains is he came there to deceive and take advantage. 

I honestly don't know what happened with the girlfriend, but she seemed to indicate that Robert wanted to keep her a secret but Liam did not.  How long did she actually date Robert?   It would only be reasonable that he would keep her a secret  until things got more serious.  I agree with the comment about the sister. Common sense should have told her not to confide her situation with the brothers to her.  I am way more concerned about their sibling dynamic than Robert and Liam's.  Did I misunderstand,or did she indicate she did not sleep with Robert?

 Also, Cyrus is King, so what does Liam lose by Robert's return?  Or was Cyrus only king because they thought Liam was not the king's son?  Either way he goes back to his same position.

I actually thought Robert lied when he told Helena what he said to Cyrus. I was also not clear on whether or not he was behind Beck's treatment of Jasper.  I am sure he is destined to be crazy, or involved in the plot on his father's life or something just as drastic. 

1.) Beck was depicted in seasons 1 and seasons 2 as being the perfect Golden Boy type. He and Eleanor dated off and on but broke up for good because she felt like Beck was trying to change her into something she wasn't. He never really displayed a mean streak until tonight.

2.) The twins are supposed to be somewhere around 19 or 20. 21, tops. I think Robert was supposed to be about 23 or 24, but obviously Max Brown is not. Handsome guy, but boyish he is not.

3.) Lady of the Night. Now I've got that song from Jekyll and Hyde: The Musical stuck in my head. Eleanor's hard look is on purpose. She's supposed to have done some VERY heavy, Lindsay Lohan-level partying throughout the first seasons of the show. As in waking up to do some lines or other was pretty normal for her. She's now relatively tame, but her wild ways is what ended her and Beck. He wasn't comfortable with her being a borderline drug addict into kinky sex, and she wasn't willing to change for him.

4.) Liam was set to become King Liam once they revealed the true paternity of the twins, but Robert's return threw a wrench into everything. I think his expressions of barely-concealed seething rage are pretty hilarious, actually. I mean, he got used to being the "Prince" and now he's back to the spare. That can't be easy.

[phoenics]

3 hours ago, catrice2 said:

 

I actually thought Robert lied when he told Helena what he said to Cyrus. I was also not clear on whether or not he was behind Beck's treatment of Jasper.  I am sure he is destined to be crazy, or involved in the plot on his father's life or something just as drastic. 

When Cyrus asked how they resolve who is King, Robert did a "Well actually, I don't know, I was hoping you in your infinite wisdom would help me figure it out, since Simon and Julian are gone" act with him and THAT is what made Cyrus suggest the privy council.  When this scene happened, I felt like Robert wanted Cyrus to suggest it because if HE suggested it, Cyrus would never agree.

And before this, Robert basically pulled a "get them on your side" by reminding Cyrus that they'd been cool before when Simon was King and Robert looked to "Uncle Cyrus" as the cool uncle who gave him his first taste of liquor and who helped him when Simon was too hard on him.  And then he appealed to Cy's vanity by telling him how hard he was fighting the cancer.  He basically reminded them that they were family and that they actually were cool before he died.  Then he appealed to Cyrus' tendency to not do what people tell him to do by getting Cyrus to suggest what Robert wanted to do all along.

Brilliant, honestly.  He's much better at this than Helena and possibly even Simon.

48 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

1.) Beck was depicted in seasons 1 and seasons 2 as being the perfect Golden Boy type. He and Eleanor dated off and on but broke up for good because she felt like Beck was trying to change her into something she wasn't. He never really displayed a mean streak until tonight.

 

This is true - except Beck was also MARRIED to someone in Season 1 and even in Season 2.  They said in S2 that he left his wife, but it's not clear whether he divorced her or just separated from her.  But he was definitely a nice guy - just a nice MARRIED guy - that was the main obstacle to Eleanor/Beck.

Funny thing is that now Eleanor is actually more like what he was trying to make her be - but that's likely due to all of the drama and mess she's been through.  Liam has regressed while Eleanor has progressed.  Maybe whoever said that she'd end up Queen was right.

[methodwriter85]

I kept forgetting that about Beck. He was basically the Royals equivalent of Aaron Tveit's Boy Congressman character on Gossip Girl during the first two seasons. Hot, but kind of a boring nice guy.

[kat165]

Good catch, rur. I agree with you. And I think Liam has had enough of it. I like your call back to "bagsies."

I'm sure he didn't think she'd refuse his overtures. From what we saw of Lenny in earlier seasons she seemed as though she rarely refuse anyone. Or remembered them afterwards. And yeah, it was presumputious but I think that reflected their prior relationship.

Yeah, I found it ironic. Frankly, I find most of Lenny's attire kind of, oh what's a good word for it, I don't know, lacking? I feel sorry for the actress for the outfits she has to wear and how much skin she always has exposed. It leaves little to the imagination. She wears it well though. I admire her confidence!

Yeah, Robt is smooth. I enjoyed watching him handle Cyrus. Aside from Violet he seems to be the only one whose approached Cyrus with any decency.

phoenics, great post!

Yeah, I think Liam did a lot of drinking and partying even before Simon died. He didn't then and still now doesn't have the maturity or finesse to be king.

Catrice, sorry I missed your post (didn't get a notice) until phoenics mentioned it. I agree with your comments on Eleanor. She has improved/matured just a wee bit in that she's not drinking/drugging as much. I've been hoping she'd also do something about her warddroben and her day to day activities to reflect a more mature attitude. But mostly I think she's just banging Jasper. I'd like to see her go out and do more, take more responsibility. Last season, towards the end of the season Liam and Lenny had a birthday but I forget how old they turned. Anyone remember?

She does look hard. I'd love to see what she looks like with all that heavy makeup especially the eye makeup.

I think Katherine and Robt were together a yr. Although where I got that I have no idea. I think it's that she recently, since he's been back, has not slept with him but she did prior to his "death."

Yes, Cyrus was king only because Queenie went on tv and declared Liam and Eleanor NOT King Simon's children. Which is what the recent fuss was about having their DNA analyzed again. She never had it analyzed the first time around, she just lied. 

I too wondered if Robt lied to Helena about what he and Cyrus talked about. I don't recall them talking about a privy council when they'd spoken before he went in to see Cyrus.

It isn't clear whether he had anything to do with Beck's treatment of Jasper. But he certainly didn't do/say anything to stop him afterwards. I didn't get any idea of how Robt might feel/think about Jasper when Eleanor introduced them last wk. I'm not even sure that he geniunely cares about Lenny's happiness although I'm sure he'd like to see her acting more responsible. Which might be hooking up with someone more "suitable." Like Beck.

Back to phoenics, comments. Liam also got smashed after Simon was killed. It seems to be his go to for stress/upset.

I didn't like what they did to Beck either.

[phoenics]

Good point about Liam getting smashed after Simon was stabbed and he found out he wasn't the heir.  And I guess Liam responded to the whole Ted Price thing by getting the snot kicked out of him constantly.  And drinking in Kate's pub.

Liam really isn't very well adjusted, is he?  LOL.  Even if Robert cracks up later he's still handling ish better than Liam.  

[kat165]

I think whoever (was it you, phoenics?) made the point about Liam being the spare as they were growing up, he wasn't expected to do much so he drank and partied and spent money and had tons of one night stands. Simon and Robt's deaths brought him to the forefront and after the Ophelia debacle he decided to step up and take some responsibilty. He was egged on by the public's reaction and Willow's support and the whole #kingliam and Cyrus being so unfit/an asshole. Liam was willing but that doesn't mean he was equipped or up to the job.

Robt, on the other hand, was raised to be king and actually has a talent for it. Where does that leave Liam? Instead of telling Robt about him and Kate or standing up to Robt's condescension or finding his own path he just backsteps and just flips out/drinks/beats up Beck. Dealing wtih Robt turns him into a mess whereas he was making real progress in all his other relationships.

I found it interesting that apparently Liam and Lenny didn't get along when Robt was around. I'd thought they'd always been close but Robt remarked on this in the last ep.

Edited January 10, 2017 by kat165

[catrice2]

I don't know what, but something in the previous episodes had already revealed that they had never really been close, which makes me wonder why everyone comments on how Robert does not seem close to Liam, apparently everyone in the family had fractured relationships.   The twins, Robert and Liam, Helena and Eleanor, etc. 

Has a reason been given for why Simon thinks Robert has mental issues, or why Liam has not told him about the girlfriend?  I based my comments about Robert and Jasper on the previews for next week. Again, as the older, more mature brother and the next "male head of the family," it would make sense to me he would be protective about Elenaor's relationship, and just in general the family.  Liam in fact by now should have investigated more about Jasper, friendship and all.   If he can't separate the friendship from work, then why can't they assign Jasper to someone else?  ( it has taken me this long to figure out she is the "Lenny" everyone refers to). 

Yes, I think Robert played everyone perfectly in this episode, including how smoothly he inserted taking over Liam's charities. I wonder how long before they start to show his faults and his cracks, or what his agenda is? 

No way are they trying to sell Max Brown in his mid twenties.....no way!!! 

I know this is some type of parody that does not take itself too seriously, but they need to address Eleanor's wardrobe.  No way royalty walks around looking like she does.   They need to give Jasper something to do.  There are just so many sex scenes that they can show. Right now they are both just useless characters. 

They are not utilizing Simon enough this year.  Also, I thought Robert's response to the fight, whether sincere or not, was fine.  He asked Liam if he could perform his duty or if he needed to make an excuse for him.  He didn't berate him or anything like that, just handled business.  I can't remember if he asked him if he was alright or not.   Why would he get in the petty squabble with Beck and the bodyguard right before the start of an important ceremony? 

[methodwriter85]

I don't think they're trying to sell him as 25 now that Max Brown is playing him, but he wasn't supposed to be that much older than the twins, and the twins are definitely supposed to be in their very early 20's. He'll probably just get the soap treatment of "we'll never actually say how old he is because we want him to be kind of ageless."

The Royals wikia lists him as being 23, but again...no. That was before Max Brown got the part.

[NutMeg]

On 1/9/2017 at 2:13 PM, omgsowicked said:

Robert just proved why he's meant to be king. He knows how to play the game but also be congenial about it. Now that he's back, he makes #KingLiam look like a twerp. And somehow he managed to butter Cyrus up enough that he seemed rather cute (when really, he's abhorrent). Was there a line about Cyrus using Robert's mental health against him, publicly? I wonder what he knows. The only area Robert sucks in, at least to me, is with Liam. He never seems to notice Liam's pained, borderline constipated expression; he just slaps him on the shoulder and acts like it's all good. Maybe that's how he knows Liam to be or maybe he does notice the attitude and doesn't give a shit. Robert does seem to throw slight amounts of shade toward him in almost every conversation they have. I'm hoping that when they both have a meltdown (Robert re: his mental health and Liam re: Katherine and being shifted back in line), it changes how they interact because right now they have a weird vibe.

I disliked that both Liam and Eleanor's storylines mostly revolved around their romances. I mean, what else is new but seriously. At least Liam had some drama with Robert but even then it was all about Katherine. (Speaking of, I don't like her sister very much and I was surprised Katherine confided in her because I didn't think she liked her either.) I found the Jasper/Beck drama completely pointless. Didn't Eleanor and Beck break up because he wanted her to change (be more stable, healthy) and she didn't like that? It was a pretty sad breakup if I remember correctly, yet Beck came sauntering in like nothing happened. Even smoked a joint with her... it just didn't make sense. And I don't give a shit about two dudes having a dick measuring contest (guns versus royal titles).

I feel like nothing else happened... Helena and Eleanor had a genuine hug, which was lovely. What else? Oh, I could have sworn I saw Genevieve Gaunt's (Willow) name in the opening credits but she wasn't in the episode, was she?

I'm fully with you here. It is actually very refreshing to see an heir to the throne who actually knows how to play the part, because that has become a rarity. And I do love how Robert has appeared very good at the job, even though he might not be the warmest and fuzziest character (but then again, who cares!? that's what other characters are there for). [I think more than ever we need to get over the trope that a newbie with no clue about what the job entails will end up working out better than the pro. This trope is fun in fiction, but pretty scary in real life. And if fiction indeed does shape expectations, well, I'm all for fiction making the "boring" but well prepared guy get the throne here.]

I also really dislike that Liam's and Eleanor's (and mostly Eleanor's) have become all about their romantic life or lack thereof. Liam should be feeling how it feels to once again become the spare after enjoying the limelight, and his love life is too weak a proxy for that (I would maybe feel different if his new "the one" had not just appeared last episode or so it feels like. As for Eleanor, she's able to be so much more than a love sidekick, and frankly, chemistry aside, Jasper is not all that :)  

[Slider]

Quote

Also, I thought Robert's response to the fight, whether sincere or not, was fine.  He asked Liam if he could perform his duty or if he needed to make an excuse for him.  He didn't berate him or anything like that, just handled business.  I can't remember if he asked him if he was alright or not.   Why would he get in the petty squabble with Beck and the bodyguard right before the start of an important ceremony? 

The fight was the best part of the episode, and a good call back to earlier when Liam and Jasper were talking.  When Jasper asked if Liam wanted him to beat up Katherine's ex, Liam told him that Katherine's ex was untouchable.  Later, Jasper was mad at Beck and wanted to beat him up, but knew he was untouchable.  Liam needed an excuse to take his anger and frustration out on someone, so he did it on behalf of Jasper, since Jasper couldn't, and it gave him an excuse to let it all out.  

[kat165]

catrice, I don't recall hearing that Robt and Liam weren't close. What I do remember hearing from both Liam and Eleanor that they thought well and fondly of him. Which surprised me when Robt finally showed up & I didn't/don't find him in the least bit loveable. Of course, L & E could have been lying!

"Has a reason been given for why Simon thinks Robert has mental issues, or why Liam has not told him about the girlfriend?" - no and no. At least that I saw/heard. Cyrus could just be assuming Robt is nuts from being on the island for so long. We weren't shown anything that would have clued Cyrus in.

We're left to assume amongst ourselves why Liam didn't tell Robt abour Kate. Was this when they were playing darts and Liam was losing? I don't remember. If I rewatch I will look for it. Cause we did see Liam looking for the opportunity to tell him and then basically chickening out.

After what happened with Jasper previous gf and what occurred between Jasper/Lenny & Liam regarding exposing Price I think Liam has just accepted Jasper and has decided not to investigate further & to accept J for who he is. Lenny pretty much told Liam Jasper's story/background.

Agree. Lenny's wardrobe needs some adjusting and as much as I like J & E the sex scenes have become tedious.

Caprice, btw, Simon was the former king who was killed by Ted Price. He's L & E's dad. Cyrus is the uncle, the current king. I think it looks like they're going to be using Cyrus more? What with the privy council and the who is going to king and the ex-wife showing up.

That hug Robt gave Liam on the balcony was a total manipulation.

Nutmeg, I agree with your post. But unfortunately, for me, Jasper is all that. :) I watch him alone for the entire hour, but that would be pretty boring for you guys.:)

Yeah, Slider.

[catrice2]

No, I meant when I first started watching the show it was made clear that Eleanor and Liam were not close, even though they are twins, and their relationship now is a new development. 

My feeling is the Eleanor looked up to Robert in that "little sister" way, but they are only surface close because she really doesn't know him, and that Liam both admired and resented him at the same time.  I don't think Robert thinks much of either except to play the role he thinks a big brother should....teasing the little brother, watching out for the little sister.  I doubt he's ever considered who Liam is or what Liam wants other than to be in his role as his little brother. 

But then again, only 10 months has passed. I don't know how much would have realistically changed in their dynamics.  

[kat165]

Thanks, catrice. I didn't recall that. Probably wasn't paying close attention.
The first season seems so long ago now.

I agree with your comments on Robt not caring really about either of them &
the surface relationships amongst them all and Robt just playing a big brother
role.

[methodwriter85]

Quote

That hug Robt gave Liam on the balcony was a total manipulation.

It totally was. So was Robert telling Liam that he was going to take over his charities.

Robert needs for Liam to remain the drunken playboy, instead of #KingLiam. It's honestly brilliant how he's manipulating Liam back into his old role, while Liam knows exactly what's happening. (Hence trying to fight Beck because he can't actually fight Robert.)

Tom Austen has gotten really good at adding in American mannerisms into his performance. It's been subtle and I can't quite put my finger on it, but he feels believably American now, as opposed to the first season. Something about the way he said he wanted to throw Beck off the goddamn balcony or something like that just had a more American feel to it.

Edited January 11, 2017 by methodwriter85

[kat165]

But does Liam know he's being manipulated? Or is he just pissed but not realizing
why?

Tom Austen is killing it. I'm so impressed with all the little Americanisms he adds.
It's brilliant and convincing. I wonder how he knows to add such little touches.
Does he know any Americans that well? It's really impressive. I think it's the tiny
physical things he does, like the fist pump in the tunnels that Mr. Hill saw on the
camera feed and a few of his seemingly spontaneous, endearing little smiles that
are his usually smirk and the occasional wide eye rather than the smoldering slits.
Very not British. His accent is quite good (believeble) also.

[phoenics]

On 1/10/2017 at 11:37 PM, kat165 said:

Thanks, catrice. I didn't recall that. Probably wasn't paying close attention.
The first season seems so long ago now.

I agree with your comments on Robt not caring really about either of them &
the surface relationships amongst them all and Robt just playing a big brother
role.

Where is this coming from - really?  He doesn't care about them?  That just hasn't been illustrated in what we've seen.  Robert clearly cares about them - they're his family.  Just because he's reserved and handles his business doesn't mean he doesn't care.  Playing darts with Liam is how they bond.  They might have a sibling rivalry, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about them.  I think we can believe both Eleanor and Liam when they said they loved their brother - clearly he loved them too.

Honestly, the person who looks like he doesn't care right now is Liam.  Isn't he the one diddling his formerly dead brother's girlfriend behind his back?  And you may think "bagsies" is unfair, but it's now the family has worked all these years.  If Liam had an issue he should have spoken up about it.  At some point, Liam has to be responsible for Liam.  If he's upset about something, he needs to open his stupid mouth and say something.  Instead he's become a passive aggressive prick.  Robert cannot be blamed for Liam's inability to stand up for himself and be a man.  This is the kind of BS that leads to characters suddenly hating another character - when it's really themselves that they should hate.

Robert is the patriarch of the family.  He's not especially effusive, which some seem to have interpreted as him being mean or cold.  That's ridiculous to me because he's pretty much the archetype of a royal who has been raised from birth to rule.  You can't be a drunk in public or shagging girls all over the place (Robert said this) - it's astonishing that he manages to be warm at all given that.

It's unfair to expect Robert to act like Liam.  That's the point.  Liam is partly who he is BECAUSE he didn't have the pressures and expectations on him that Robert has had his entire life.  Robert might have been more effusive and open if he wasn't the heir.

I just don't understand this hatred for Robert.  It just doesn't jibe with what I see on my screen.

On 1/12/2017 at 10:40 AM, Gabrielle Tracy said:

I think the sole reason Beck came back was so that when we saw the previews for this week's show, we could hear someone in a uniform say "he's not good enough for her" (referring to Jasper and Eleanor) and assume it was Robert saying it when, alas, it was Beck!

One thing that is very confusing for me...   Liam is not nor has ever been in the military, right?  Cyrus either?  I didn't think that British royals wore military uniforms unless they were actually in the military (for example, Prince Edward wore tails when he was married), yet Cyrus was so decked out he looked like the dictator of some banana republic!

Agreed.  Liam wasn't military - hence my confusion.  Also caused confusion about Beck too - because I didn't know he was military or that he had any royal rank.

Although - it was pretty clear that it was Beck in the promo who said "he's not good enough for her".  I never thought it was Robert.

[phoenics]

On 1/11/2017 at 1:48 AM, methodwriter85 said:

It totally was. So was Robert telling Liam that he was going to take over his charities.

Robert needs for Liam to remain the drunken playboy, instead of #KingLiam. It's honestly brilliant how he's manipulating Liam back into his old role, while Liam knows exactly what's happening. (Hence trying to fight Beck because he can't actually fight Robert.)

Tom Austen has gotten really good at adding in American mannerisms into his performance. It's been subtle and I can't quite put my finger on it, but he feels believably American now, as opposed to the first season. Something about the way he said he wanted to throw Beck off the goddamn balcony or something like that just had a more American feel to it.

Now I do believe Robert has done a bit of subtle manipulation here - however it's only ONE charity - the military one and that's because Liam isn't a vet, but Robert actually is.  In terms of matters of state, it makes sense, though I would be disappointed if I was Liam.  He probably should have said something if he really wanted to keep it.  He did start it after all.

I think Robert probably wanted the charity also partly because it was connected to Kate?

You might be right that Robert wants Liam to remain the drunken playboy - but I think it's more that Robert sees it more as him coming back to assume his rightful place.  It'd be nice if he could do that without displacing Liam so badly - even more badly than he knows as Liam is boinking his woman.  I find it REALLY hard to feel sorry for Liam though - given what he's doing with Kate and how he seems so antagonistic toward his brother.  The drinking out of a flask felt jarring to me and still does.  

[kat165]

phoenics, I just don't sense sincerity in any of Robt's dealings with his siblings. He always seems to me like he's playing everyone. To me it's not clear that he cares about them. Athough I don't think he dislikes them. I also think he may be in the habit of not letting himself feel too deeply or to care too much. His role in the family have forced him to approach things more with his head than his heart.

Him playing darts with Liam came off as I'm still better than you, Liam rather than any sort of bonding experience. There was no generosity in his actions/speech. But also see above. If he cares about them I think he's really good at not showing that in any real way. For me personally, I don't see Robt showing any warmth, any geniune warmth.

I don't think Liam has slept with Kate since Robt's come back. Previously, when he did it wasn't behind Robt back because they thought Robt was dead. I agree Liam should have spoken up at the "bagsies' comment at the time if it meant that much to him. I think he didn't because that seemed to always be his role, step back for your brother. And yeah, now, he is passive aggressive. But I take that as him being young and not really knowing how to approach his brother since he's always been the one to step back. And/or not even knowing if he should confront his brother/tell him the truth. I think Liam is at a crossroads  and is probably re-evaluting his relationship with Robt and his relationship in the family & life in general.
 

Liam's drinking out the flask just illustrates his frustration, indecision and immaturity/age and lack of balls. I didn't find it jarring at all. He just seemed to revert back to the guy we met in season one. Now that #kingliam is probably null and void he doesn't know what his place is so he fell back on his previous one and it's not sitting well.

[catrice2]

I don't dislike Robert, in fact it is the opposite. I like the character and I like Max Brown.  In fact, I don't know if I would have watched this season had they not announced the character was being created.  It is actually the character of Liam I don't like, or possibly the actor's portrayal of him.....and I only slightly less like the sister, and that order changes from episode to episode. 

I do not necessarily think Robert is cold or doesn't have a relationship with his siblings. I think it was said that his sister adores him, and I think I said, or meant to say that Liam both worships him and resents him at the same time.....for some of the reasons that you mentioned. Robert has always had "duty" around his  neck like a stone, but I do think he is comfortable in his "role" in the family.   I think he is more focused than cold, he knows what he is supposed to do and how he is supposed to be viewed and he focuses on that.  I am interested to see what they do with him. I more than suspect they will take the easy way out.  So far to me they really have not shown anything to dislike, which makes me fear they will soon start to make something wrong with him.  The writers are clearly making the mistake of thinking either of the twins are that interesting. I am way more interested in Jasper, outside of Eleanor. 

I think I also said that Liam needs to own his own actions and speak up for himself. Robert has probably always treated him as "the little brother," and if he has a problem with it that is his issue.  

[rur]

I have nothing against Robert, either, but when it comes to Kate, somehow or somewhere I got the idea that when Robert became king, his relationship with Kate would always be kept secret; but if Liam took the throne he was far more open to pursuing a relationship with her in the public eye. And I've attributed that difference in attitudes toward her as being what's been chafing at Liam.  However, there's no specific episode or line that I can point to that gave me that idea, so it's possible that idea came from my head fully formed after reading too many books about medieval royal intrigues. 

[kat165]

I got that impression too, rur, that Robt would always keep the relationship secret, but Liam probably won't/wouldn't. I think a whole bunch of stuff is chaffing at Liam, not just Kate being Robt's back street girl.

[phoenics]

15 hours ago, rur said:

I have nothing against Robert, either, but when it comes to Kate, somehow or somewhere I got the idea that when Robert became king, his relationship with Kate would always be kept secret; but if Liam took the throne he was far more open to pursuing a relationship with her in the public eye. And I've attributed that difference in attitudes toward her as being what's been chafing at Liam.  However, there's no specific episode or line that I can point to that gave me that idea, so it's possible that idea came from my head fully formed after reading too many books about medieval royal intrigues. 

I do think Robert would have kept her secret - I'd hoped that his time on the island would have helped him break out of that a bit - time will tell.  I can understand his hesitation.  If I take off my American blinders and think as though this monarchy is real - Kate is not only a commoner, she's poor, relatively speaking.  I can see how this would be tough for Robert.  He's expected to marry well and that's been drilled in him forever.

I think he wants to be King more than he wants to be with Kate.  Although right now, Kate isn't really warming up to him, so if he'd ask, if I were her I would say that they either date openly or not at all.

THAT would shake up this story.  Right now it feels like Kate wants to be with Liam more than Robert - but if he revealed their relationship and brought her out into the open, I think that would change.

Thing is, would Kate ever ask?  

Liam erroneously believes he can have both the crown and Kate, or that he would if he was in Robert's shoes.  I don't think it's that simple.  This show didn't seem to do this with Cyrus - but BRF has to ask for permission to marry and approval.  If they don't get it, they lose their rights of succession and they also lose all financial support - especially since some of that comes at taxpayer expense.  Liam thinks he can just trot off with Kate, but I wonder if the show is going to bring up rights of succession and BRF approval rules and laws, etc..

With Robert vying for the throne against Cyrus, he certainly wouldn't be bringing Kate out into the open before that - but if Cyrus finds out about them and her cavorting with Liam and it costs Robert his chance at the throne - Liam better watch his back.  Kate too - she'd likely be deported for treason.

Liam clearly leads rashly with his heart at the expense of his head. Robert leads with his head at the expense of his heart.  

The ONLY person who could possibly bring Kate into the open would be Robert (because of his ordeal).  I hope he does.  Then it would be impossible for Liam and Kate to continue - and right now I really can't stand Liam.

Maybe it's William Moseley.  I had a tough time with him in Narnia - at least - taking him seriously as a leader - because he has such a childlike boyish face.  And he plays Liam in pretty much the same way as in the first two Narnia films I saw.  Maybe if he grew facial hair?

On the other hand, I love Max Brown.  Always have - he can play straight and good, and also manipulative and cunning.  But with Robert, I actually WANT him to win.  He just feels like a more compelling character to me.  Liam used to be - but he's been whiny on this show too long.

Anyway - I think Robert should be King.  Liam can be with Kate.

[rur]

3 hours ago, phoenics said:

But with Robert, I actually WANT him to win.  He just feels like a more compelling character to me.  Liam used to be - but he's been whiny on this show too long.

Did Liam's drunkenly singing "I Just Can't Wait to Be King" from a Disney movie affect your perception of him as being kingly? It certainly (negatively) affected mine. 

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, rur said:

Did Liam's drunkenly singing "I Just Can't Wait to Be King" from a Disney movie affect your perception of him as being kingly? It certainly (negatively) affected mine. 

It did.  I was really jarred by it.  I guess I expected him to react more maturely - and at least like a royal.  I think it illustrates that this is who he was before Robert died - completely out in the open and a hot mess.  Now he's treading back to that territory, although I'm not sure he ever left it.  Ophelia - as much as folks hated her - probably made him LOOK a lot more kingly than he actually was because she was completely new and clumsy in the royal situation she found herself in, whereas he looked more knowledgeable about it.

[peachmangosteen]

I had always meant to watch this show because I do love a good trashy soap, but I never got around to it. Finally this past week I went ahead and binged it. And boy am I glad I did! This show is exactly what I hoped it would be.

I for one am glad Liam is going back to his hot mess ways. He has been dreadfully boring almost all series to me and finally I am at least vaguely interested in where he's going. I wish William Mosely was capable of creating even a smidge of romantic chemistry with someone though.

Edited January 15, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[kat165]

phoenics, great point about royal family expectations and Kate being poor. I too had hoped that Robt after his time on the island would say the hell with it and bring Kate out into the open. If anyone could do it he could. He has amazing powers of persuasion and to turn things his way and make it publicly (sp?) palatable. He could finesse it in a way I think Liam never could.

Does he want to be king? I am not sure although he's given no indication that his ambitions lie elsewhere. I'd like to know why he's sleeping on the floor. I hope we get some insight into that before the season is over. We're already halfway into the 3rd season and no idea (as far as I know) if there will be a series 4.

Speaking of which, I've recently rewatched the season the from the beginning. Just what did Robt remove from storage? That egg timer? And if so, why?

And yeah, that would shake up the story. But Kate doesn't seem like she's about to demand he publicly (sp again) recognize her. And will her sister betray her confidence and let the secret out? I find her sister untrustworthy and never would have confided in her.

This whole marriage thing to American (which at this point in time I'm loathe to admit that I am) seems ridiculous. But I think it's a whole other mindset I can't really relate to.

I do think Robt could carry it off, bringing their relationship - if it's on again - out into the open.

Yeah, that's my problem with the Liam actor too. He is too boyish and sweet and comes off like he'd be your sweet best friend but not your lover. He has no edge. And I don't think a beard would help! Can he even grow one? Yeah, let Robt be king, he'd be a good king. Let Liam have
Kate.

I totally missed the Disney song bit. Did he actually sing that song? I didn't pick up on it. Although I'm not familiar with the song so it would have gone completely over my head.

Welcome to the show, Peach. It's delightful. I look forward to it ever wk. :)

[phoenics]

The first few times he kissed Kate, he just smashed his mouth against hers - has no one ever taught this boy how to kiss?  He's gotten better though - he's more tender with it now.  Must have gotten some direction.  The way to kiss when you're consumed by passion is to look like you've inhaled the other person - not smothered them, lol.  Take Kirsten Dunst and Toby Maguire at the end of Spiderman 2.  THAT kiss was epic.  Also Emma Stone and Andrew Garfield in The Amazing Spiderman - that kiss on the rooftop - whew.  

Some actors have to be told to open their mouths and simply go at it the french way.

[phoenics]

3 minutes ago, kat165 said:

phoenics, great point about royal family expectations and Kate being poor. I too had hoped
that Robt after his time on the island would say the hell with it and bring Kate out into the
open. If anyone could do it he could. He has amazing powers of persuasion and to turn things
his way and make the publicly (sp?) palatable. He could finesse it in a way I think Liam never
could.

Does he want to be king? I am not sure although he's given no indication that his ambitions
lie elsewhere. I'd like to know why he's sleeping on the floor. I hope we get some insight
into that before the season is over. We're already halfway into the 3rd season and no idea
(as far as I know) if there will be a serie 4.

Oh gosh I hope there is a series 4!! I love this show!

Speaking of which, I've recently rewatched the season the from the beginning. Just what did
Robt remove from storage? That egg timer? And if so, why?

I'm not 100% sure, but maybe because it has sand in it and it calms him?  No idea other than that.  He doesn't seem to be using it for time.

And yeah, that would shake up the story. But Kate doesn't seem like she's about to demand he

publicly (sp again) recognize her. And will her sister betray her confidence and let the secret
out? I find her sister untrustworthy and never would have confided in her.

IKR?!  I was shocked she trusted her - her sister looks about as trustworthy as Cyrus.  And she seems kinda dumb.

This whole marriage thing to American (which at this point in time I'm loathe to admit that I am)

seems ridiculous. But I think it's a whole other mindset I can't reall relate to.

I feel you, lol.  Although I am strangely invested in Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's relationship.

I do think Robt could carry it off, bringing their relationship - if it's on again - out into the

open.

He totally could - but will he?  The show could have him bring her into the open, and then (due to Liam doing something dumb or mean or both) it could be scandalously revealed and then Cyrus would use that to keep the Crown (arguing that Robert's judgment is off - 1st picking a commoner and 2nd picking a commoner who is sleeping with his brother - the monarchy would collapse if he persisted with Kate after that and then possibly if he became King).  Whooooo drama!  Robert's claws would totally come out and I wouldn't blame him.  Losing his woman AND his Crown?  No.  I'd kick Liam in his teeth, lol.

Yeah, that's my problem with the Liam actor too. He is too boyish and sweet and comes off like

he'd be your sweet best friend but not your lover. He has no edge. And I don't think a beard
would help! Can he even grow one? Yeah, let him be king, he'd be a good king. Let Liam have
Kate.

I don't think Liam would make a good king though.  He's actually better with Kate.  He has a small modicum of chemistry with her.  Robert I think could have chemistry with anyone if they'd let him.  I don't have to squint to see him as a man.

I totally missed the Disney song bit. Did he actually sing that song? I didn't pick up on it. Although

I'm not familiar with the song so it would have gone completely over my head.

Yeah he was singing karaoke and drunk in that pub after finding out he wasn't Simon's.

Welcome to the show, Peach. It's delightful. I look forward to it ever wk. :)

Welcome Peach!!  You'll love this show!  I'm totally sick with a flu but I am totally going to drag myself downstairs to watch at 10, lol.

[catrice2]

Yeah, but how long did he see Kate?  Didn't the real Prince William date his wife more than 3 years or something?  He may have wanted to protect her, or just have something to himself for a while.  Who knows?  I just didn't get the impression they had been dating long enough to establish something that would make him want to go public, and I didn't think that had anything to do with her status. 

Liam is young and romanticizes everything. I'm sure he does think he would bring her out in the open, but he was not in the same position as Robert. Even when he started seeing her Cyrus was King, less responsibility for him. 

I agree Liam does not have real chemistry with any woman they have put him with 

[phoenics]

I'm not sure how long Prince William dated Kate before bringing her out into the open.  I don't think it was 3 years - was it?  Unless it was because they were in school together?

But

In next week's episode (jan 22), Robert wants to bring her out into the open.  So maybe my thought of him doing that and then it coming out that she was with Liam, and then Cyrus using that to hurt his chance to be King and then ... boom.

[kat165]

phoenics, I love this show. I look forward to it every wk., moreso than any other show I watch.

Yes, the sister does seem kind of dumb and shallow. And there's no family resemblance at all! Casting failed there. Although they did do an excellent job of casting the cousin's mother.

That would be interesting, the press getting hold of the info that Liam had been in a relationshp with Kate too. I do think though that since Robt's return Liam and Kate have not been intimate. They've just met a couple times and I think, shared maybe a kiss. So I'm not really seeing a scandal there but the press, when have they ever been concerned with the facts?

I don't think Liam would make a good king either. All that #kingliam stuff showed that his heart was in the right place but he really doesn't have the skill set. He does have chemistry with Kate, somewhat. Let her be his consolation prize.

Thanks for the karaoke info. I didn't remember that. I think I tend to  nod off when Liam's on screen. :)

Feel better, phoenics. The flu sucks.

I think William and Kate knew each other at least 8-10 yrs before their marriage, not dating that whole time but they hung out with the same group of people. I can't even compare Kate Middleton with this show's Kate. This show's Kate is somewhat poor. Middleton came from an upper middle class family. Because I'm not British it's hard for me to see Middleton as a commoner. I see nothing "common" about her. Show Kate is basically the average Joe off the street. Middleton went to that posh school which puts her on a whole different social level than show Kate.