S03.E08: And the Eternal Question

[ganesh]

17 hours ago, P2C2E said:

I thought Flynn was going to propose to Eve before they were interrupted. 

NOOOOPPPE

[NeenerNeener]

On 1/10/2017 at 7:01 PM, ChelseaNH said:

Lindy Booth on the episode: http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-librarians-lindy-booth-on-king-arthur-brain-tumors-1790975968

She had to fight for the outfit of many colors...

Yikes! She wants to dress like that!

[Matt K]

On 1/10/2017 at 8:44 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Hey I like her outfits.  

Same here.  I don't really get what the big deal was with her previous outfits. 

 

As for the brain surgery, the one big difference between the pilot and now is that magic has been unleashed into the world.  So that means that previously impossible things are now possible.  That said, if it turns out to be part of Apep's big plan that's fine too.

[tennisgurl]

I like Cassandras outfits, even if they're a little twee and hipster for my taste. Its fits her personality. Although, I did like her more traditional dress in that last scene. She looked lovely. 

That was an interesting episode, with more pros and cons than most episodes here. On the one hand, the whole "Cassandra has a thing for Jenkins" seemed totally out of left field. They have always been close, but I never got the vibe that Cassandra was interested him in a romantic way, even in a Hot for Teacher kind of way. And, while I am glad they finally dealt with Cassandra and her brain aneurysm, it also came out of nowhere, It hasn't been mentioned in ages, and now its this huge thing? I love this show, but it really has issues with keeping ongoing character arcs going in a natural way. I was also disappointed that so many of the vampires turned out to be typical evil "we are meant to hunt" vampires for our heroes to fight. I was hoping it would turn out the deaths were an accident or something more interesting.

There were pros though! The idea of a bunch of vampires running a health retreat where they can be outside is a cool idea, and I really liked the vampire woman who had a thing with Cassandra. I hope we see her and whoever is left of her vampire gang again, as either a love interest for Cassandra or as an ally to the gang. And the immortality stuff was interesting, and tied in well with Cassandra and her fears of death. And, hey, Cassandra is alright AND she still has her visions! Plus, its been awhile since we had a Cassandra episode, and I like her a lot, quirks and poorly thought out brain problems and all. Plus, we had Jenkins as hero, some nice banter between Jones and Stone, and a background use of Flynn. His stuff with Eve was pointless, but harmless. 

All in all, my issues with this episode had more to do with issues with the whole show than with this episode in particular. I think it could be more if it spent more time on character building and had more consistent arcs. But this was still a solid episode, so I cant complain too much. 

[fastiller]

Just watched this: I laughed for quite some time at Lindsay's, er Stone's look at the hand & "I don't like vampires!".

I think Cassandra's outfits are thoroughly impractical given her line of work. 

[rur]

On 1/14/2017 at 1:07 PM, tennisgurl said:

… and I really liked the vampire woman who had a thing with Cassandra. I hope we see her and whoever is left of her vampire gang again, as either a love interest for Cassandra or as an ally to the gang.

Yes! I've been hoping the reference to Flynn and his vampire/lover, who explained to him that vampires knew about librarians and were not really their enemies, would mean we'd get to see these two groups interact again. 

Edited January 15, 2017 by rur

[johntfs]

On 1/13/2017 at 9:13 PM, Matt K said:

 

As for the brain surgery, the one big difference between the pilot and now is that magic has been unleashed into the world.  So that means that previously impossible things are now possible.  That said, if it turns out to be part of Apep's big plan that's fine too.

Sure, but they'd be previously impossible magic things.  It's not like neurosurgeons are getting their scalpels openly blessed by witches or something.  Medical science is still medical science.  I kind of wish we'd had a previous scene to establish that something had changed with the tumor.  Something like "It'll be risky, Cassandra, but this new surgical technique is your last, best hope of removing your tumor and living to a ripe old age."

Edited January 15, 2017 by johntfs

[lizzyp]

My thoughts exactly!

[Ottis]

On 1/9/2017 at 10:20 AM, KirkB said:

I was always under the impression Cassandra's tumor GAVE her the abilities, but the scene after she had it removed implies instead that the tumor had actually been IMPEDING them.

Yep, that's the way I took it, and it ties into "the library chose you" discussion. The tumor just a tumor. Which, if you think about it, means all of her angst and actions over the years tied to the tumor were needless. That's sad. 

 

On 1/10/2017 at 7:21 PM, thuganomics85 said:

So, I guess Flynn's little trip with Baird is because he is preparing to sacrifice himself?

Here's hoping. The entire show screeches to a halt for me whenever he appears. (BTW, I'm just now catching up to a bunch of DVR'd eps).

[ribboninthesky1]

I've been catching up on the show via Hulu and following much of the discussion.  Lindy Booth is probably the most prolific of the actors for me (everyone else is fine, it just feels like Lindy does a lot more with her scenes and dialogue). 

That said, I found Cassandra utterly obnoxious this episode. Particularly with Jenkins.  She's no more entitled to his affections that he would be to hers.  If Jenkins doesn't reciprocate, he shouldn't have to explain himself.  I wish he could have just said he wasn't interested, and that be enough. But oh no! How could someone NOT love Cassandra romantically?  

This show has a real blind spot with their Manic Pixie Girl characters.  I saw it in the previous episode with the Cindy character as well.  She was just as disturbed, entitled, and dangerous as the Sean Astin magician character from a couple of episodes back, yet the show "redeemed" her.  The magician was rightly told off and ultimately done away with, yet Cindy got sympathy.  Same with Cassandra in this episode. I have less issue with her wardrobe than the show's utter cowardice of showing how self-involved and entitled Cassandra can be, yet backing off and soft-shoeing her because "brain grape."  They have no problems demonstrating how self-involved Jones can be and hold him accountable via character interactions.  With Flynn as well.  Don't really see that with Cassandra. I think the one exception might be Stone from way back in season 1, but even then, it can probably be hand-waved by the writers as Stone's personal issues and not a justifiable concern with Cassandra's character.  I'd come around on her after floating between dislike and ambivalence, but this episode put me right back off.    

Edited December 3, 2017 by ribboninthesky1

[johntfs]

I didn't mind Cassandra.  I tend to mentally adjust her age about 20 years lower than it actually is to reflect the idea that emotionally she's still kind of the 15 year old girl she was when she was first diagnosed with the tumor.  As for the bit with Jenkins, I think Cassandra always kind of quietly crushed on him but only acted on those feelings here because she "knew" she was about to die.

I also cut Cindy a bit more slack than I do the Astin magician character.  The magician considered Day's character almost more of an object that he'd lost more than a person he loved.  He cruelly enslaved and punished other women for the "crime" of not being who he wanted and also abused many other people maliciously.  Cindy just wanted to be liked and not to hurt anymore.  She was viciously and deliberately hurt and humiliated.  In order to make the potion work, she had to constantly relive and re-experience that awful moment to generate the tears so she couldn't move past it. While Cindy was certainly selfish, she wasn't malicious and probably nothing would have happened to begin with id Apep hadn't manipulated her.  Plus, once Jones got her to understand what was really happening, she worked with him to try to stop it.

[ribboninthesky1]

Agreed that Cindy was cruelly hurt and humiliated.  I won't give her a pass because of Apep - she wasn't possessed.  She chose to relive that experience - surely there were other ways to generate tears.  Much like the magician, instead of moving forward, she chose to stay stuck reliving a part of her past.  And she enslaved people just like the magician.  As far as we know, she didn't put anyone in the hospital, but as explained by Jenkins in the episode, it wasn't a love potion - it was obsession.  She eventually would have had people tearing each other apart because she wanted to be liked.   I do think there was underlying malice in her actions, the show just didn't lay it out the way they did with the magician.

As for Cassandra, I have no issues with her crushing on Jenkins.  It was her reaction when he didn't reciprocate that was uncalled for, and certainly unfair to him.  She called him a coward and declared that he didn't do anything with his life because she made all these assumptions about why he wouldn't reciprocate (only to later lecture Stone and Jones about their "preconceived notions" about vampires). It's fine she was hurting, but um...people get romantically rejected all the time.  And unfortunately, some people become terminally ill at a young age.  Life ain't fair sometimes.  The show wanted me to feel sympathy, yet all I saw was a woman having a tantrum. I'm sure most viewers were euphoric at her recovery from surgery, but I was just annoyed at the lack of accountability.  And that's not even counting her using mission time to go see her surgeon, or her attitude with the guys, who were actually doing their freaking job while she's having her personal crisis and not telling anyone what's going on.  Ugh.  

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

She chose to relive that experience - surely there were other ways to generate tears.

Sure there are other ways to generate tears, but perhaps the tears had to be generated the way she was doing it.  Or perhaps Apep simply told her that to keep her in a state of sadness and self-pity.  Maybe there was some unacknowledged malice on Cindy's part as well.  The redeeming point for Cindy is that once Ezekiel confronted her with what she was doing and showed her the real effects, she regretted it and moved to make amends by helping him stop it.  Cindy was a person who did a bad thing, but wasn't a truly bad person.  The magician was a genuinely bad person.