S33: Hannah Shapiro

[gator12]

I don't think he's my bunny argument would have work with the Will and Jay votes, he was the one who insisted that they go and I don't know about the playing both side since his main gang was Ken, David and Jessica until he needed David to go to win the game. And I don't think likability is ever a weakness in the game of survivor since that 1/3 of the part survivor, and the afraid to be strategic and ruthless would have failed since everyone in jury talk about how he would talk strategy with them at one point or the other.

I don't know what argument against Adam she could have made, not the kingpin argument since everyone knew David was running the show and her two kingpin move was more like how to lose a million dollars move. Not an attack of social games, since she it would just bring attention to how much hers suck.

Really all Adam had to do not to lose this FTC was to say yeah I tried to make big move all of the time and I failed at some badly but succeed in others while refusing letting Hannah take sole credit for things that they did together and letting them know he though Sunday and Bret were dumb move.

Is the bunny the nice beef cake/hot girl who does nothing but follow the alpha male? Adam so doesn't fit if that the definition, at one point he was playing to hard he almost got Zeke out of the game.

Edited December 20, 2016 by gator12
Zeke out of the game = almost got voted off himself.

[kikaha]

11 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Russell could have been in the finals with a bottle of ketchup and the ketchup would have won. He was a vile human being who was a complete dick to everyone yet he still expected them to vote for him. He had zero social game.

Pretty much true... yet he still got two more votes than Hannah did this season. 

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Hannah's argument then should've been that she and David joined forces after the Zeke vote, and she kept Adam as her Bunny (not her goat -- the jury didn't think of him that way). Again, because of Hannah's own likability problem, I think her best bet would've been to lean in to Adam's likability, but paint it as a weakness rather than a strength. "Poor, sweet Adam -- he just wasn't comfortable with being ruthless and strategic. And then he played that idol for me! How could I vote him out after that, bless his heart!"

You might be on to something here. Maybe Hannah's biggest mistake was that during FTC she tried to talk herself up rather than talk Adam down. But obviously Hannah was just way off on her perception of other people's perception of not only her, but Adam as well. Plus, she could've had the best FTC ever and she just wasn't going to get the votes from this jury.

[KimberStormer]

I like the plan of undermining Adam to the jury, but she would have to get that started long before FTC.  Fabio, of all people, knew to start making Sash and Chase look like total selfish assholes and himself a confident, loveable winner to the jury long before he got to the end.  Natalie Anderson broke out of Bunny status by making moves, particularly the Baylor idol-out, which made her look like some kind of invincible superhero and Missy and Jaclyn look (unfairly, but that's Survivor) like slack-jawed suckers.  By FTC I think most people have a perception of you that's either "loser" or "winner" and sometimes "winner, provided they say what I want them to say", like Coach in South Pacific or Amanda in Micronesia.  People just aren't going to switch their entire view of someone based on FTC.

[violet and green]

3 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

People just aren't going to switch their entire view of someone based on FTC.

Except for Kristy, in Australian Survivor. She really did turn the bulk of the jury around by her FTC performance.

[peachmangosteen]

4 minutes ago, violet and green said:

Except for Kristy, in Australian Survivor. She really did turn the bulk of the jury around by her FTC performance.

And it was so fun to watch. She literally just bullshitted her way into a win! The jury was in disbelief, even as they were voting for her! LMAO!

On topic ...

3 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

People just aren't going to switch their entire view of someone based on FTC.

Really though. And I'm surprised Hannah didn't get that.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/19/2016 at 7:10 PM, gator12 said:

I never watch any of Russell's season. Did he win final IC during his seasons and he just pick bad finalist to go with him?

Honestly, you should watch it.  Not everyone agrees on Russell here.

[Superpole2000]

On 12/19/2016 at 1:22 AM, LadyChatts said:

That's what I'm saying!  Everyone grumbling about David outlasting them had any and every opportunity to vote him out long before he made the final 4.  So why did Hannah and Ken catch flack for waiting until the final 4?  I get the loyalty thing, but everyone said he was a threat to win.  So Ken and Hannah finally do it, but they're the bad guys, and Adams the hero for voting him out at the final 4?  

That sounds like they were trying to justify their choice through strategy/logic, but in reality they just liked Adam more than Hannah.

And that's why I think Hannah got shut out. Her gameplay was fine. They just didn't like her as much as they liked Adam...which surprised me. As I watched Adam, I didn't really like him that much, but I didn't have to live with these people.

[Rachel RSL]

On 12/28/2016 at 3:24 PM, Superpole2000 said:

That sounds like they were trying to justify their choice through strategy/logic, but in reality they just liked Adam more than Hannah.

I think that's exactly right. Maybe it would be a less bitter pill to swallow if they would just admit it. Who knows? The more I think about how people (Bret, the jury, internet peeps like us) keep harping on Hannah voting out Sunday instead of David, the more it irks me. Earlier in that same episode, they had a plan to vote out David but Adam decided it was better for his game to vote out Will instead. Will, a virtual non-entity who had no shot at winning, basically the same as Sunday. Yet Adam decided to boot him instead of David and nobody says squat. But later, at the very next TC, Hannah was in almost the exact same situation and decided it was better for her game to boot Sunday, yet Bret and everybody sees this as the dumbest move ever. 

[peachmangosteen]

8 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Earlier in that same episode, they had a plan to vote out David but Adam decided it was better for his game to vote out Will instead. Will, a virtual non-entity who had no shot at winning, basically the same as Sunday. Yet Adam decided to boot him instead of David and nobody says squat. But later, at the very next TC, Hannah was in almost the exact same situation and decided it was better for her game to boot Sunday, yet Bret and everybody sees this as the dumbest move ever. 

A round of applause!

[Hera]

Something that frequently came up on the old Television Without Pity forums is that the jury always reward the player who makes them feel the best (or least worst) about their own games. I think Hannah's problem was that most of the jurors felt that her game wasn't all that different from theirs, but she had somehow gotten away with it and made it to the end, whereas they were on the jury. I think most of them were set on rewarding the most visible player who made it to the end well before Final Tribal Council, and that ended up being Adam.

[Nashville]

On 12/28/2016 at 2:24 PM, Superpole2000 said:

That sounds like they were trying to justify their choice through strategy/logic, but in reality they just liked Adam more than Hannah.

No different than any other jury.  I think Grisham put it best in one of his novels.  A jury generally makes up its mind on who wins or loses based on feelings and emotions, not points of law.  A good lawyer sees what the jury wants to do, then presents them with a legally justifiable way to do it.

[Eolivet]

On 1/1/2017 at 1:28 AM, Rachel RSL said:

Earlier in that same episode, they had a plan to vote out David but Adam decided it was better for his game to vote out Will instead. Will, a virtual non-entity who had no shot at winning, basically the same as Sunday.

I'm not sure the situations were comparable, though. David leaving would've been horrible for Hannah, too. Had David left, Bret and Sunday become swing votes and can control who goes home -- and Adam and Hannah both risk that those two join up with Jay and Will (the remnants of Zeke's alliance), leaving Adam, Hannah and Ken as the minority. Leaving David in the game at that point assured them that Bret and Sunday had no real power, since there was no other viable side to join. With that last vote, Will had also established himself as A Flipper, and I think it's never a bad idea to get the flipper out -- see: Cochran 1.0 and Penner, Jonathan 1.0.

Getting rid of Sunday helped Hannah and Hannah alone, but Hannah couldn't make a jury see her game as separate from The Game.