Small Talk: Slaves To Gab

[stillshimpy]

I know how you feel, Stumbler.  After the slaughter of all the Starks, I seriously wasn't sure I had any reason to continue to watch the show.  I know you have always been a big Stannis fan, so I feel for you, truly.  

 

What I do find is that it is ever so slightly freeing to end up in the "Yeah, I don't really care who wins this slash-fest, they all suck almost equally.  Except for Dany, but it's not like she feels like an emotionally accessible character either."  

 

However, I hope you continue to hang out with us.  I don't think this story is over by a long shot and whereas I've never been fond of Stannis, I think watching him live with what he did might actually prove interesting.  

[Pallas]

I don't want to find you on your own milk carton, Stumbler!  gingerella, I don't know how to work a Rubik's cube without our Rubik!   All the same, taking time to reconsider is a lost art.  Lead the way.

[janjan]

Yes, Stumbler, rest, regroup, revitalize your precious bodily fluids, but don't forget to come back!!!  No fun without you.

[WhiteStumbler]

I don’t think that the choices Game of Thrones has made this season are the kind of show I trust to spend a lot of time thinking about and parsing the meaning of. What is the point in speculating about what a character might or might not do and what it means, if the show runners can then just re-write the character or retcon the world? I am left believing that GoT now has little to offer but manipulative gut punches and shock, and it is too lazy / compressed / IDK what to earn these through character / world building, without gimmicks.

 

I don’t need my entertainment to be happy, and I don’t need nobility and “good” to triumph, but I do need consistency. I can deal with (not be entertained by, but perhaps educated by) horrible things happening to innocent characters, if those horrors are earned by the show. They have to be earned through details, earned by showing us characters wrestling with momentous decisions or horrible choices, and earned by consistency.

 

For me, this season Game of Thrones has failed to earn the horrors and the bleakness, is resorting to manipulation, and seems addicted to plot twists for the sake of plot twists (rather than the feel of organic inevitability I loved so much in S1 - S3 and that was on the decline in S4). The show has done a really horrible job (IMO natch) of handling everything in KL, the entire Dorne storyline, grayscale, the “great fighters” the Unsullied and our continued pointless, momentum-less time in Mereen, Sansa’s rape, and now Shireen’s murder. This season has been filled with stalling, retcons, gimmicks, and filler (again, IMO), so my trust in the show to not resort to these just to rip our guts out (over and over) is exhausted. I finally asked myself a foundational question: Would I recommend GoT to a friend? And if the answer is no, why should I watch as anything but a casual viewer?

 

And so, my friends, I’m resigning my commission at the Spitball Wall, at least for now. If you get stuck on a question about who said what when, you can try a PM and I will consult the Master Compendium of Scripts.

 

Who knows, I may be back next week after the show makes Shireen’s murder some sort of nightmare that Davos had on his way to Castle Black. I wanted you to know, if this is the end of our time together, that I have really enjoyed this journey with you all. You have made everything that was worthwhile in previous seasons even more enjoyable, and you have taken the sting out of the many horrors the show has thrown our way.

[Mya Stone]

*sniff*

I'll miss you, WS.

I'm breaking all the rules lately.

[janjan]

I pretty much agree with you, WS [if you're still reading this]. We used to spit & speculate up until the following ep, but this season, we're pretty much done posting by Tuesday. There's just not that much to parse and spitball about.

 

But I'm not giving up just yet. I'm hoping next Sunday's ep resolves a lot of stuff and restores some of the greatness that used to be GoT. Then I'll decide whether to eagerly await S6 or to wander off to Milk Carton Land.

[gingerella]

My dear White Stumbler (see, I even typed out your entire moniker in your honor!),

 

I wish you would at least reconsider and stay with us until the end of this seasons since it's only one epi left. Other than that plea, I'm with Janjan in that I agree 100% with everything you've written, and don't know how much interest I will have to remain Unsullied and watch next season at all. I agree with you, it's not about wanting everything to be sunshiny rainbows and unicorn farts, it's just that it feels organically very off and wrong.  And IF this is because the show runners are making shit up and moving pieces around that were not so in the books, then a motherfucking POX on their houses. Yes, for real. Because once you start fucking with the narrative of a story, there comes a point where you are so deep into your fake story, that you have to start butchering the original narrative to support your newly made up one.  Again, IF that is why we've felt so off this season, then I too am not sure how much investment of my time I want to give this show next season. We'll see...Like Janjan, a lot hinges on the last episode of the season...

 

Lastly, WS, you know the road to Castle East, should you need to meet with your brethren whenever...we will be there...

[ChocButterfly]

No, Kentucky Fried Hound, you can't leave, I love your posts!! And I love your avatar, it still cracks me up everyone I see it, heh!

 

Though I still don't understand why everyone is so upset and surprised about Shireen's death, I knew Stannis was going to do it the moment Mel suggested it. The guy always do what she says, No matter how horrible it is. Well, it was upsetting, but not surprising.

 

But I do agree with the rest of your disappointment with this season. It has become so boring that I sometimes even forget on Sundays the show is on. Still, the last 2 episodes have been good, in my opinion. 

 

But I also agree with Ginger, there's only one episode left, you can't leave us hanging now!

I wish the show would end next season, so they don't drag the plots eternally and make them worst and we get to have a somewhat satisfying ending.

[janjan]

Though I still don't understand why everyone is so upset and surprised about Shireen's death, I knew Stannis was going to do it the moment Mel suggested it.

You're right, Choc -- it wasn't a surprise, and not just because we began predicting something of the sort the minute she and Stannis had their affectionate moment a few eps ago. In fact, the death of Shireen was one of the more organically developed incidents in this season. Stannis thinks he's destined to be King, Stannis's campaign is stalled and failing, Stannis sees retreat as not an option, Mel tells him the only way to succeed is to sacrifice his daughter, so Stannis grasps at that straw.

 

My problem with this season isn't so much that things don't make sense as that I don't care if they do. Nearly all the compelling characters are gone, and The Game is stalled: LF and Varys are off-screen, Tywin is gone, and Cersei's downfall was out of character (she's not *that* dumb). On the non-Game front, Dany's sojourn in Mereen has been too long and doesn't fit with her lust for the Iron throne, Arya's endless sweeping and corpse-washing is a bore, the Dorne interlude did nothing more than inflict the Sand Snakes on us, and Ramsey's sadism evokes, "I get it already." When Jon Snow's is the most interesting story line, A Show is in trouble.

 

There. I vented. But 'tis true that the last two eps picked up the pace a bit, so maybe the finale will redeem the season. Hope so.

[stillshimpy]

Oh man,  the problem is I can't argue with anything you're saying, Stumbler and I agree with a lot of it.  Was it in character for Stannis to sacrifice Shireen?  Maybe.  He did have Renly killed.  He would have had Robert's only living child killed also.  Stannis had started to slip down that slippery slope a long time ago.  But...and here's the big "but" of it all...did the show build that believably?  

 

Did we see that progression in Stannis, or did it feel like we were all emotionally set up to feel like we were going to puke?  How could Stannis have listened to the story Shireen told and not have had grave doubts?  

 

I can buy that he still did.  I can buy that Stannis would sacrifice Shireen, but they didn't lay the emotional groundwork enough.  They laid the emotional ground work for the exact opposite decision.  Stannis had a chilly emotional demeanor throughout this entire show.  They give us a scene of Stannis telling Shireen that he always has loved her....and instead of it being about expanding his emotional world and letting us know him better...it ended up feeling like  we were just being set up to be clocked in the nose.  

 

And after all of that, the thing that is really bugging me is this:  If Stannis could bring himself to sacrifice Shireen in a quest for the Throne and to save the world, I needed to hear him tell me why and here's one more thing: To this moment, I do not believe he would have hidden from her like that.  I just don't.  That was cowardly.  I've never liked Stannis much -- certainly not as much as you have -- but that was the part that rang so false to me that I'm still having trouble with it.  

 

I'd really like to propose a small compromise though, because dude, you are one of the people who has been around since the first season:  Finish out the season with us.  

 

I don't need nobility and goodness -- although I actually really emotionally invest in those things -- but as I told Mya in a PM a while back, stories need a beginning, a middle and an end.   

 

Too much of this story is just setting Dany up as the anointed one.  

 

Anyway, dude, please finish out the season with us and then ....as much as it  would suck for all of us....I think it might be time for us all to discuss the next step in our little experiment:  Figuring out which one of us are up for reading the books and which one of us are ready to end our watch.  

 

Because, yeah, I'm the same page as you are in this one.  I feel like the series has done too many things to just upset the hell out of me, without providing an emotional context for why they have happened.  

Edited June 11, 2015 by stillshimpy

[DirewolfPup]

I am so much in agreement with everyone. Based on how the story is going on A Show, I don't see how people are crazy in their clamoring for the next book. Something must have gone awry in the transition from book to script to show. I loved this show, and I still do. Just not with the same vigor.

 

I can only speak for myself here, but the only reason I remain unsullied is for the excellent discussion here with you all. If you or a group of you decided after this season to read the books, I would really push for an online book club. We could dissect it chapter by chapter, with reading goals every week. Whatever, I'm sure we could figure something out. If we wanted to continue being unsullied, but have less conversation/debate/what-have-you, so be it.

 

I live by the unsullied oath and die by the unsullied oath. Valar Morghulis.

[WhiteStumbler]

Thanks to you all. I will lurk around and see where everyone is after E10.

[90PercentGravity]

If you guys are looking for something light and breezy to cleanse your palates after this, you should check out Hannibal.

[Anothermi]

I think this is the right place to put this. We are such a small band of unsullied at the moment that I wanted to remind you all that I rarely get to watch this show at the time of airing. Earning a living conflicts with that. So if you don't hear from me for a while after it's been aired - that will be the reason.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Anothermi

[Llywela]

I think this is the right place to put this. We are such a small band of unsullied at the moment that I wanted to remind you all that I rarely get to watch this show at the time of airing. Earning a living conflicts with that. So if you don't hear from me for a while after it's been aired - that will be the reason.

Ditto. I'm in the UK and won't get to see the episodes anything like live - I'll get hold of them when I can.

[gingerella]

And I am currently journeying far, far away from our Spitball Wall and will not be able to comment until Thursday...but I will be interested in the comments as I don't know if I can withstand not reading here!

[90PercentGravity]

I'm still unsullied. Will be watching on hbonow as soon as I'm able to.

[DirewolfPup]

Some still survive! Valar Morgulis.

 

I should be able to watch Sunday nights until the end of May. We shall see. Thanks HBO Now!

[Pallas]

Valar Doharis and hooray, Direwolf Pup and 90%! Let's all hope our watch will begin to rewarded this season -- through what we experience with A Show, not only with each other. It's so good to see familiar faces, and to know that we'll keep hearing from more of our tribe as the week goes on. 

[janjan]

We'll have the grog (and spit) waiting for all you guys! I go to the habitat as soon as A Show airs, knowing that one of the siblinghood (TM Pallas) will have something interesting to say about it. If I have to wait a few days to hear your thoughts, it's worth it.

[Anothermi]

I hope everyone is adjusting to the all-new-with-sometimes-unknown-mod-cons-and-retro-fittings Habitat. I know it's happened to all the forums but this one is home.  I'm having to get my landmarks re-adjusted. I keep looking for yellow speech bubbles or stars to tell me where new posts are... but they aren't there. Instead there are titles in bold and apparently my eye's grey scale meter is broken and I have completely missed that subtle distinction a couple of times.

Don't get me wrong. There are many good changes. Guess I'm just looking for my Linus blanket.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Anothermi

[90PercentGravity]

If you want more of the guy who plays Jaqen, check out Crossing Lines on Netflix. It also had William Fitchner and Donald Sutherland.

[gingerella]

anothermi and brethren, if you are interested in the music for E10, it's here...

https://www.amazon.com/Game-Thrones-Season-Music-HBO®/dp/B01HGBNG6K/ref=pd_sim_340_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=61eOzvlzCAL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=KPRAY925QGABFRK0C6BK

I hope we can parse out a bit more before we hibernate...speaking of which, I would like to propose a re watch of the entire series starting from S1E1, is anyone up for that?  It's going to be a long Winter until we see our friends at the Wall so we could continue this momentum we are feeling now, and start all over again, doing one show each Sunday, same times as GoT HBO air times, same rules, etc., and start a S1 area here, and so on.  I wonder what we will pick up upon re watch at this point...any takers?

[Pallas]

Thank you for the links to the score, gingerella!  And I'd love for us to do a rewatch. With 60 episodes now in the subscription library in HBO-GOTOWN, I think we'd want to average 2 per week. That way we could catch up again before season 7 begins next spring. That seems doable.

[Anothermi]

Yes, thanks for the link Ging!

Rewatch sounds good. I've just been thinking of doing that, but on my own. Doing it with others would be much better.

If we labeled the threads by Season only, when we get to Season 4, when the Previously Habitat was built, we won't end up with possible duplicate thread titles. <omg we live behind The Wall!. At least we know who built this one. It may feel like it was built by magic to us, but we know it was a lot of work on the part of The Gods of Ones and Zeros>

[gingerella]

Excellent news!  Anyone else care to join us? Choc, Llywela, WS, Janjan, 90%, abcfsk, Pup, Shadowlass (are you still here?!)...will you all join us?

Anothermi, I'm pretty certain our original wall was more like the hidey hole under Root Dude's tree, and without any real protection save one lone guard who was often on journeys.  But here, I am quite sure that our White Cloaks have woven very serious magic into this place and thus, we are well protected!

3 hours ago, Anothermi said:

It may feel like it was built by magic to us, but we know it was a lot of work on the part of The Gods of Ones and Zeros>

Hahaha...I like that! I think you are referring to The Lord of Binary...

[Anothermi]

2 hours ago, gingerella said:

Hahaha...I like that! I think you are referring to The Lord of Binary...

Yup. The good old LoB! <"the net is dark and full of terrors">

ETA: but there's got to be a variety of other gods under that roof:

The Lord of Ones

The Lord of Zeros

The Lord of (the blue screen of) Death

The Lord of Languages

Any others?

Edited July 1, 2016 by Anothermi

[Anothermi]

2 hours ago, gingerella said:

Excellent news!  Anyone else care to join us? Choc, Llywela, WS, Janjan, 90%, abcfsk, Pup, Shadowlass (are you still here?!)...will you all join us?

And @Glory - perhaps you will be able to participate more in the off season? I still feel bad that you were abandoned on the "other side" at the end of last season due to you delayed watching ability. You haven't been a frequent poster, but your input is valued.

[gingerella]

49 minutes ago, Anothermi said:

Yup. The good old LoB! <"the net is dark and full of terrors">

ETA: but there's got to be a variety of other gods under that roof:

The Lord of Ones

The Lord of Zeros

The Lord of (the blue screen of) Death

The Lord of Languages

Any others?

Lord of Glitches

Lord of Buffering

Lord of Upgrades

[Anothermi]

19 minutes ago, gingerella said:

Lord of Glitches

Lord of Buffering

Lord of Upgrades

Looks like this religious grouping is going to need their own temple. They'll crowd out all the other Many Faced Gods at the House of Black and White.  ;-P

[Llywela]

I love the idea of a rewatch, to see what hindsight brings to bear on those earlier seasons, but I'm not sure I can commit to two episodes a week - I find just one episode a week of anything a struggle to keep up with just at the moment! I'll follow along as best I can, but can't guarantee full participation.

[Anothermi]

Happy to hear it. You have wonderful insights and pick up on things I hadn't paid attention to. Whatever participation you can give would be valued. I know what you mean about two per week though. Perhaps we can decide which episodes to try for two a week.

Although I think Season One will be an eye opener now that we know so much more, I honestly can't separate what happened in episode one from episode two that season. It was great speculating at the time because there was so much we didn't know. Now, I suspect there will be a lot of "right, now I see what was being alluded to". But the character analysis might be the most fun with hind-sight.

[Llywela]

I'm pretty clear on episode one - I rewatched just that one episode shortly before this season began, and wanted to weep for how young and innocent everyone was! Couldn't bear to go on, at the time...

[Pallas]

Maybe we go into the process with an eye to viewing seasons 1 - 4, then, at one ep per week? That should provide plenty of revelation! And bring us up to Tyrion's escape from Westeros, and Arya's setting setting sail for Braavos. If we begin soon, the timing would still work out to run us up to the probable start date for Season 7.

[gingerella]

The other thing I was going to suggest is that we can figure out how many weeks we have between now and what we think is the next episode, and do double duty over the summer or so, until we get to the point where we only need to do one a week...We conceivably have 52 weeks in a year between right now and next year this time, but we need to count backward by about 10 weeks to get back to the likely start date of S7...Bear with my idiot's math skills please...So whatever that date is, we have x weeks until S7 begins. If we can figure out how many double weeks we'd need to get to the point where we only need to do once a week, that might work...Or just do 1-4, I dunno...I wouldn't mind reliving S6 because it was sooooo good...and satisfying! ;)

[Anothermi]

I'm good with aiming for 1- 4 but deciding when we feel we can do double eps when we get together to discuss what we just watched. It's not like we will be doing nothing else over this time. For instance, I'm not likely to be able to participate the 1st couple of weeks of Aug.  I think we will want to review S05 & 06 close to the start of S07, but it's pretty hard to commit to a full year - especially when our lives get busy. We are only about a dozen (or less) who post each episode. That is likely to be less for a rewatch, but I could be surprised.

Regardless of the number participating, it's still better to have some others to bounce our reactions off of - even if it ends up becoming a much slower pace than during original broadcasts.

[gingerella]

9 hours ago, Anothermi said:

We are only about a dozen (or less) who post each episode. That is likely to be less for a rewatch, but I could be surprised.

I am beginning to understand what it feels like to be the Free Folk south of the Wall...Or the Stark clan...!

Edited July 2, 2016 by gingerella

[Anothermi]

When should we start the rewatch? I'm running out of thoughts strictly related to episode 10, and could use a new infusion of, uh, Show, to get the little grey cells livened up.

[gingerella]

How's about this Sunday? S1E1?  Who's in?

[Anothermi]

Are we talking EST (America)? I'd be available.

[Pallas]

I'm in! Tomorrow at 9 PM EST for Ep 1?  And then see at what pace we want to progress?  It could be like A Show: sometimes people move at one speed; for other storylines...

ETA: For seasons 1 - 6, start date was second-to-third week of April. If next season is 7 eps, my guess would be last Sunday in April, all of May, first Sunday of June, to have A Show still extend over three calendar months. But that depends on the production schedule and many other variables known only to the showrunners, HBO, the Old Gods and the New.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Pallas

[Anothermi]

Great. Now our watch begins.

I've agreed to put up the episode titles. SilverStormm asked if I was going to put up the episode synopsis, so I said I'd ask. That is not something I feel I can do - unless you want silly synopses - because I don't want to venture north of this habitat (beyond our wall) to find an official one.

I have put up the unsullied rules - as per all other episode threads.

[gingerella]

Yes! Same viewing schedule as during season..and so our watch continues...!

Anothermi, I agree about you/us not putting up episode synopsis so if SilverStormm wants to do it, great, but if not we can go without...?

I will send ravens to the others...to see if we can amass our usual Brethren...

Edited July 2, 2016 by gingerella

[Anothermi]

I'm up for giving an "off the cuff" synopsis, but I might peter out from time to time.  I could put in synopsis suggestions from you guys thought (can edit them in).

[gingerella]

I like the off the cuff synopsis idea, more based on what A Viewer now knows of A Show! Could be amusing...

[gingerella]

3 hours ago, Pallas said:

I'm in! Tomorrow at 9 PM EST for Ep 1?  And then see at what pace we want to progress?  It could be like A Show: sometimes people move at one speed; for other storylines...

ETA: For seasons 1 - 6, start date was second-to-third week of April. If next season is 7 eps, my guess would be last Sunday in April, all of May, first Sunday of June, to have A Show still extend over three calendar months. But that depends on the production schedule and many other variables known only to the showrunners, HBO, the Old Gods and the New.

Actually, I just calculated that with 60 episodes, and a possible S7 premiere April 30th, we will need to double up from now until Sunday Nov. 6th in order to then slow down to 1 epi per week, and conclude before an April 30th premiere date...FYI, I did not count Christmas Day 2016 nor New Year's Day 2017, both Sundays. So should we begin trying for double duty now and see how that goes? I already sent ravens but I can send another, they're just sitting around doing nothing so...

[Meredith Quill]

Some scheduling info regarding your rewatch plans; Season 7 will air in 2017 later than usual; probably looking at a May or June premiere and will be 7 episodes long.

[Pallas]

Thank you, Silver, for confirming what we've sensed through tremors on the grapevine! Hard to imagine a season less than two months long (the penultimate episode as #6? Really?). Then again, we can take heart at the hint that it won't take Dany six years to make it to the Wall...

[gingerella]

Thanks Silver, I assume it's because, yanno, Winter Has Finally Come, and it's tough slogging around in all that snow!

Brethren, I think this means we can do our re-watch at a one episode per week schedule and not worry about having to double up again, yeah!

[Anothermi]

Hello fellow re-watchers. I guess this is the best place to remind you that I will be away for the next two weeks. Llywela mentioned in one of the threads that she will be away next week, so the posting will be a little sparse. I haven't even been able to watch last Sunday's re-watch (S01E07)! So I'll be three behind by the time I get back.

If every current participant is agreeable, I suggest that after S01E10 we wait for the current regular posters to catch up before we move on to S02. What say you?

We can communicate here on that one issue, if you like. I need to hear back from at least Gingerella, Pallas and Llywela (current regulars) because if you want to keep forging ahead I will have to set up at least one S02 thread as soon as I return.

There have been some wonderful posts so far this re-watch. Thoughtful and thought provoking. It's been rewarding so I'm game to continue, it's just the catching up that feels a bit daunting.