Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[FemmyV]

I don't see the Dothraki surviving, if only because I can't imagine how they would assimilate to Westeros. The Unsullied are controllable by Dani, at least. How is she going to convince the Dothraki to suddenly stop looting everything, and still keep her Khalassar? Between Dothraki and Dragons, it's easy to see why any number of Westerosi will want to assassinate Dany when she makes her move.

[whateverdgaf]

5 hours ago, FemmyV said:

I don't see the Dothraki surviving, if only because I can't imagine how they would assimilate to Westeros. The Unsullied are controllable by Dani, at least. How is she going to convince the Dothraki to suddenly stop looting everything, and still keep her Khalassar? Between Dothraki and Dragons, it's easy to see why any number of Westerosi will want to assassinate Dany when she makes her move.

 

That will explain why Tarly seems to side with the Lannisters despite being Tyrell bannermen. For all the people who are supporting Dany, there are a lot who will want her dead. Of course, one of her talents is inspiring loyalty in her people, but she may struggle to do that in westeros.

It's not just seeing how Dany copes in new surroundings that I am looking forward to seeing, but also how she interacts with all the characters we know she will be meeting. I'm kind of dissapointed the she and Sansa are unlikely to interact any time soon, because I think their dynamic would be interesting. And I think any scene between Olenna and Dany would have great comic potential, if only to see Olenna's reaction to Dany rattling off her titles. And even if we don't get that, we will have Theon and Jon meeting again, as well as Jon potentially reuniting with Tyrion. And I would love to see Dany's reaction to Brienne. Sigh. Summer is so far away and there is only so much fanfic.

[SimoneS]

20 hours ago, whateverdgaf said:

And I think any scene between Olenna and Dany would have great comic potential, if only to see Olenna's reaction to Dany rattling off her titles. 

That would be hysterical. I can only imagine the snark that Olenna would come up with although she would no doubt impressed by Daenerys' dragons.

[Knuckles]

"I see a lot of resentment and open misogyny against her "

 

I respectfully disagree. Brienne is a fascinating character, but what Grailking said is true...Brienne has integrity, courage, and moral standing. But, she focuses so intently on her goal, that she is reluctant to listen to anyone else...possibly the result of a lifetime of ridicule directed towards her as a knight. She was dismissive and openly insulting to Podrick, who had the same focus and determination to be the best squire to her he could be...and his advice, especially his knowledge of Lysa Arryan and Sansa's relationship to her, helped her finally to find Sansa. Jaime finally managed to penetrate that protective wall she has erected around herself...and we saw a great deal more of the true Brienne. 

I don't think people really resent her...the fight with the Hound was an all-out battle of equals, until Brienne won...which event even the Hound acknowledged later with the church folks. And I was a real supporter of Stannis...until he burned Shireen...but I understood as did Stannis himself, that she had to kill him...it was her sworn duty. Stannis and Brienne in that last moment understood one another. I think people root for her...she has her flaws as does every character on GOT, but she is a striking example of GRRM's willingness to give a female character an unexpected and powerful role.

[Krazytoast]

Hello, long time lurker from the TWOP days, first time poster. 

So, I was getting ready to watch Westworld  (which is my HBO fix of choice until Game of Thrones returns) when HBO showed their 2017 preview. I swear I saw new Game of Thrones footage in the promo with Jon, Sansa, and Arya. I could not tell if the Jon scene was new, but Sansa had her hair down in front of the godswood and Arya was on a horse. I have been trying to find the promo or if WOTW or Westeros.org have posted about it, but nothing yet.

Did anyone else see this?

[SeanC]

24 minutes ago, Krazytoast said:

Hello, long time lurker from the TWOP days, first time poster. 

So, I was getting ready to watch Westworld  (which is my HBO fix of choice until Game of Thrones returns) when HBO showed their 2017 preview. I swear I saw new Game of Thrones footage in the promo with Jon, Sansa, and Arya. I could not tell if the Jon scene was new, but Sansa had her hair down in front of the godswood and Arya was on a horse. I have been trying to find the promo or if WOTW or Westeros.org have posted about it, but nothing yet.

Did anyone else see this?

I didn't see anything like that while watching the episode.  If something like that aired, I'd expect to see images from it on Tumblr, etc., but nothing as yet.

EDIT - two WOTW posters say they saw it, so we'll see if anybody puts up some screengrabs.

Edited November 28, 2016 by SeanC

[Krazytoast]

6 minutes ago, SeanC said:

 

I tried rewinding back to the promo after Westworld but I couldn't load it. Stupid Xfinity.

[anamika]

From Game of thrones Reddit:

https://imgur.com/a/fF8zu

She looks awesome! Maybe that's her seeing Winterfell.

Sansa is also in the WF Godswood:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/5f92jl/main_spoilers_is_this_new/

Edited November 28, 2016 by anamika

[SeanC]

I imagine that is Arya looking at Winterfell for the first time since Season 1.

Sophie's wig doesn't look too bad from that one image, at least.  Seeing as that scene is in the Godswood and Sansa looks upset and/or shocked, I wonder if that's the scene where Bran ex machina tells her about Littlefinger.

EDIT - And here's Jonny:

https://imgur.com/a/1YKd8

That's at Winterfell, from the looks of it.  Sansa in the foreground?  I can't think of anybody else who'd have their hair like that.

Edited November 28, 2016 by SeanC

[anamika]

47 minutes ago, SeanC said:

EDIT - And here's Jonny:

https://imgur.com/a/1YKd8

That's at Winterfell, from the looks of it.  Sansa in the foreground?  I can't think of anybody else who'd have their hair like that.

That armor thingy around his neck looks new. And LOL, yeah, that's definitely Sansa's wig hair sticking out in the foreground.

So maybe stuff from the first episode. Maybe that's Arya leaving the Riverlands and heading towards WF.

Edited November 28, 2016 by anamika

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

I imagine that is Arya looking at Winterfell for the first time since Season 1.

Sophie's wig doesn't look too bad from that one image, at least.  Seeing as that scene is in the Godswood and Sansa looks upset and/or shocked, I wonder if that's the scene where Bran ex machina tells her about Littlefinger.

EDIT - And here's Jonny:

https://imgur.com/a/1YKd8

That's at Winterfell, from the looks of it.  Sansa in the foreground?  I can't think of anybody else who'd have their hair like that.

the girl playing Alys Karstark perhaps ?

[ElizaD]

This has to be the earliest we've seen official shots of the next season. There was a December preview with season 4 shots but now it's still November, and season 7 is going to premiere later than usual too.

Sansa's hair looks a little weird, but maybe it's just because I know she has a wig.

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, ElizaD said:

This has to be the earliest we've seen official shots of the next season. There was a December preview with season 4 shots but now it's still November, and season 7 is going to premiere later than usual too.

Sansa's hair looks a little weird, but maybe it's just because I know she has a wig.

To be honest, I think it's because her face seems more round, the hair didn't look bad to me.

Her head almost looks PS on the shoulders

[Eyes High]

The HBO next-year preview screenshots can often be from quite late in the season (the Season 3 next year preview had a shot from 3x08).

The girl in the foreground shot with Jon is likely Sansa, judging by the height differential. It also looks like a one-on-one scene, and we know that Alys Karstark or whoever the Northern girl is supposed to be only appears in one group scene. 

The Jon/Sansa scene is from very early on in the season, since Jon spends the bulk of the season away from Winterfell. If I had to guess, the Jon/Sansa scene is from 6x02, when according to the leaker Jon and Sansa talk about Jon going south to meet with Dany (Sansa doesn't like the idea but simmers down when Jon leaves her in charge during his absence).

Arya scene: Arya looking at Winterfell? The leaker's spoilers would peg this at 6x04. The leaker claims Bran arrives one episode earlier, in 6x03.

Sansa scene: dunno. There was a scene in the godswood very early on filming that was speculated to have one or more of the Stark kids. Sophie Turner, Kit Harington and IHW had all been recently spotted in Belfast when the scene was filmed.

Quote

To be honest, I think it's because her face seems more round, the hair didn't look bad to me.

Yes. It makes no sense, though. She lost so much weight to play Jean Grey. How could she possibly look so moon-faced? 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Yes. It makes no sense, though. She lost so much weight to play Jean Grey. How could she possibly look so moon-face

She had to lose weight ?

Sophie's a healthy young woman why would she need to do that, she seemed fine considering her height.

Film industry, eh.

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Yes. It makes no sense, though. She lost so much weight to play Jean Grey. How could she possibly look so moon-faced? 

From the actual video it's a shot of her walking very purposefully toward the camera, so maybe the motion accounts for some of it?

[GrailKing]

33 minutes ago, SeanC said:

From the actual video it's a shot of her walking very purposefully toward the camera, so maybe the motion accounts for some of it?

If it's her Jon is looking at it could be his decision to either not punish the Karstarks or he's telling her he's going to KL, we know through sources the KStarks are an issue with her and Lady M, then to say I'm going South the watch is yours would push her angst sky high as she knows full well how that pit is.

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, SeanC said:

From the actual video it's a shot of her walking very purposefully toward the camera, so maybe the motion accounts for some of it?

After someone uploaded a GIF it is Sansa leaving the GW towards the castle or further into the woods.

A secret meeting with LF ? 

I hope not.

[Eyes High]

8 hours ago, GrailKing said:

If it's her Jon is looking at it could be his decision to either not punish the Karstarks or he's telling her he's going to KL, we know through sources the KStarks are an issue with her and Lady M, then to say I'm going South the watch is yours would push her angst sky high as she knows full well how that pit is.

The leaker says Sansa chills about Jon's decision to go south when Jon leaves her in charge, so it sounds like the opposite occurs.

Jon: I've been summoned south to meet Daenerys on Dragonstone.

Sansa: You can't go! It's too dangerous!

Jon: You can be in charge while I'm go--

Sansa: HAVE A SAFE TRIP SEE YOU SOON TAKE DAVOS TOO I NEVER LIKED HIM FOR SAFETY

I don't know why Sansa would be terrified of Jon going south because of her experiences in KL. Jon is going to Dragonstone, not KL. Jon is going to meet with Dany, and it was the Lannisters who terrorized Sansa, not Dany. 

I am curious to see whether Dany's letter to Jon includes the information that Tyrion is her Hand. If so, Jon would be less apprehensive about going to meet Dany, since he had a good relationship with Tyrion from Season 1. I'm guessing, though, that Jon will be really nervous about meeting with Dany and will be pleasantly surprised when he's welcomed at Dragonstone by Tyrion, someone he had no idea was associated with Dany.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

23 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The leaker says Sansa chills about Jon's decision to go south when Jon leaves her in charge, so it sounds like the opposite occurs.

Jon: I've been summoned south to meet Daenerys on Dragonstone.

Sansa: You can't go! It's too dangerous!

Jon: You can be in charge while I'm go--

Sansa: HAVE A SAFE TRIP SEE YOU SOON TAKE DAVOS TOO I NEVER LIKED HIM FOR SAFETY

I don't know why Sansa would be terrified of Jon going south because of her experiences in KL. Jon is going to Dragonstone, not KL. Jon is going to meet with Dany, and it was the Lannisters who terrorized Sansa, not Dany. 

I am curious to see whether Dany's letter to Jon includes the information that Tyrion is her Hand. If so, Jon would be less apprehensive about going to meet Dany, since he had a good relationship with Tyrion from Season 1. I'm guessing, though, that Jon will be really nervous about meeting with Dany and will be pleasantly surprised when he's welcomed at Dragonstone by Tyrion, someone he had no idea was associated with Dany.

Well a couple of things come to mind, as far as she would know or think, Jon could be considered breaking a NW oath, and allowing wildings in, Jon like Ned may not be suited for Southern type politics AKA lies and deceit.

I don't believe Sansa wants him to leave so she can steal the North, I think she's really concerned about LF.

Be nice if they brought a little bit of the vale story in, like finding LF people, solving food issues etc. 

[Eyes High]

7 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Well a couple of things come to mind, as far as she would know or think, Jon could be considered breaking a NW oath, and allowing wildings in, Jon like Ned may not be suited for Southern type politics AKA lies and deceit.

I don't believe Sansa wants him to leave so she can steal the North, I think she's really concerned about LF.

Be nice if they brought a little bit of the vale story in, like finding LF people, solving food issues etc. 

We have a rough outline for the Northern story from the leaker, but it seems pretty thin. We've also learned of confirmed spoilers that align with the leaks but weren't mentioned in them (Cersei's meeting with Tycho, Grey Worm carrying out a raid on Casterly Rock, etc.), so it's entirely possible that there's some more material in the Northern storyline that wasn't in the leaks.

In the preview shot of Sansa, it almost looks like she's bouncing up and down. Is she walking really quickly or something?

Edited November 29, 2016 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

We have a rough outline for the Northern story from the leaker, but it seems pretty thin. We've also learned of confirmed spoilers that align with the leaks but weren't mentioned in them (Cersei's meeting with Tycho, Grey Worm carrying out a raid on Casterly Rock, etc.), so it's entirely possible that there's some more material in the Northern storyline that wasn't in the leaks.

In the preview shot of Sansa, it almost looks like she's bouncing up and down. Is she walking really quickly or something?

Seems to be with purpose, and if she heard it was Arya I think she have some semblance of a smile, we'll need to wait a bit longer .

[SeanC]

WOTW casting news:  One role that is as yet unidentified but involved filming in Spain, and an actor will be playing the new Lord Frey in a Podeswa episode.

The latter (surprise surprise) lines up with the supposed leaked information relayed via IM to another Reddit poster, that Arya's season begins by killing more Freys.

[ElizaD]

I'm now treating Wall sex as 99% confirmed and hoping it lives up to the months of anticipation!

Getting such a detailed leak has been great, IMO; it just adds to the fun in the months before the show airs, like the speculation during the book-based seasons about what plot points the show would include. I hope we get at least season 6 level leaks when season 8 films, though HBO will probably work extra hard to do what they can to protect the indoors filming from being spoiled.

[Edith]

51 minutes ago, SeanC said:

WOTW casting news:  One role that is as yet unidentified but involved filming in Spain, and an actor will be playing the new Lord Frey in a Podeswa episode.

The latter (surprise surprise) lines up with the supposed leaked information relayed via IM to another Reddit poster, that Arya's season begins by killing more Freys.

A little sad the fact that Arya was put in the role of L.S. but I guess everything for shock value is ok..

Also I guess Arya is probably skipping one episode, either episode 2 or 3, right? If she's killing the Freys in episode 1, reuniting with Nymeria in episode 2 or 3 and finally arriving in Winterfell in episode 4

Edited November 29, 2016 by Edith

[GrailKing]

8 minutes ago, Edith said:

A little sad the fact that Arya was put in the role of L.S. but I guess everything for shock value is ok..

Well, if we truly look at it may be the better choice between her and Sansa, yet in actuality it's seems as they combined Arya,Sansa and BWOB to do her work.

I think in book Arya may take out Ramsey unless they sent LSH there I can't see Sansa doing it, though that could be an option for GRRM to see how she changed.

[GrailKing]

I guess I'll be playing this a bit longer if what WIC posted is true. :/

 

[FemmyV]

I  don't expect Wall Sex to be all that epic; it's not like the show has ever treated sex with any kind of major romanticism. As much as there's been a lot of it, it's always been just kind of .. there. More to show character/plot point than entertain (although it has on occasion).

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

WOTW casting news:  One role that is as yet unidentified but involved filming in Spain, and an actor will be playing the new Lord Frey in a Podeswa episode.

The latter (surprise surprise) lines up with the supposed leaked information relayed via IM to another Reddit poster, that Arya's season begins by killing more Freys.

This contradicts the leaks. The IMs said that Arya uses Walder Frey's face. If so, there would be no "new Lord Frey," since Walder would still be known to be alive, right? Unless Walder has apparently gone missing and is presumed dead after 6x10 and "Walder" shows up at the Frey feast presided over by the new "Lord Frey," all "SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKERS."

2 hours ago, ElizaD said:

I'm now treating Wall sex as 99% confirmed and hoping it lives up to the months of anticipation!

Getting such a detailed leak has been great, IMO; it just adds to the fun in the months before the show airs, like the speculation during the book-based seasons about what plot points the show would include. I hope we get at least season 6 level leaks when season 8 films, though HBO will probably work extra hard to do what they can to protect the indoors filming from being spoiled.

"Wall Sex" sounds like they have sex up against the Wall, heh.

I dunno how I feel about the bulk of the season and all major plot points being spoiled in advance. I love being spoiled, but there's a cost. As much as I loved the sept explosion sequence in 6x10, I would have enjoyed watching it for the first time a lot more if I hadn't known what was going to happen.

2 hours ago, Edith said:

A little sad the fact that Arya was put in the role of L.S. but I guess everything for shock value is ok..

Also I guess Arya is probably skipping one episode, either episode 2 or 3, right? If she's killing the Freys in episode 1, reuniting with Nymeria in episode 2 or 3 and finally arriving in Winterfell in episode 4

There's been a lot of speculation about the BWB pulling a Red Wedding 2.0 or reverse Red Wedding at Daven Lannister's wedding to a Frey girl. Assuming that happens in WOTW, maybe this is the show equivalent.

[SeanC]

Just now, Eyes High said:

This contradicts the leaks. The IMs said that Arya uses Walder Frey's face. If so, there would be no "new Lord Frey," since Walder would still be known to be alive, right? Unless Walder has apparently gone missing and is presumed dead after 6x10 and "Walder" shows up at the Frey feast presided over by the new "Lord Frey," all "SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKERS."

I was thinking about that point.  It's also possible that Arya, on revealing herself, congratulates some dying Frey on inheriting the lordship, or something like that.  There'd presumably be some banter amongst the Freys before the poisoning.

[Eyes High]

9 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I was thinking about that point.  It's also possible that Arya, on revealing herself, congratulates some dying Frey on inheriting the lordship, or something like that.  There'd presumably be some banter amongst the Freys before the poisoning.

It could be that Walder appoints a successor--the new "Lord Frey"--and the toast is to congratulate him. There are ways of making the casting news fit with Awayforthelads' PMs. It does seem strange, though.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

It could be that Walder appoints a successor--the new "Lord Frey"--and the toast is to congratulate him. There are ways of making the casting news fit with Awayforthelads' PMs. It does seem strange, though.

Yeah, it's definitely a point of potential divergence (though since it's from the supposed PMs, it's different from the ones posted on Reddit by himself), but since we've seen all kinds of details given in spoilers that seemed odd or inconsistent but turned out to be true, it doesn't automatically indicate a contradiction to me.

It's entirely possible that Lads has gotten the finer details wrong, even if something like this seems a fairly significant detail within the given scene.

[Eyes High]

3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Yeah, it's definitely a point of potential divergence (though since it's from the supposed PMs, it's different from the ones posted on Reddit by himself), but since we've seen all kinds of details given in spoilers that seemed odd or inconsistent but turned out to be true, it doesn't automatically indicate a contradiction to me.

It's entirely possible that Lads has gotten the finer details wrong, even if something like this seems a fairly significant detail within the given scene.

Yes. Jury's out. This is the first bit of confirmed news that appears to contradict the leaks, though, and that is significant, even if ultimately it's all explained in satisfactory fashion when the episode itself airs.

Killing all the Frey men, some of whom for all we know were coerced into going along with the Red Wedding, is kind of pointless as a gesture, though, unless Arya is willing to kill all the male Frey children as well and all the women who may or may not be pregnant with a male Frey heir. If you're going to make a big show of "exterminating" the Freys, go all the way Tywin-style and kill them all or don't bother.

[Wouter]

6 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Well, if we truly look at it may be the better choice between her and Sansa, yet in actuality it's seems as they combined Arya,Sansa and BWOB to do her work.

I think in book Arya may take out Ramsey unless they sent LSH there I can't see Sansa doing it, though that could be an option for GRRM to see how she changed.

In book, I expect Ramsay to be taken out by Stannis or Manderley. The set-up of that battle (Stannis preparing a trap, the frozen lake, traitors in the ranks, Freys who aren't great allies, and father Roose at odds with him) doesn't seem great.

OK, there is the pink letter, but I'm guessing he only thinks Stannis is dead (due to the sword being handed to him by the Manderlys?) and there will be a nasty surprise coming.

I think the northern story will be very different in the books (assuming there is ever going to be another book, that is) and Arya may go to the Vale. It's where book-LF and book-Sansa will be.

[GrailKing]

28 minutes ago, Wouter said:

In book, I expect Ramsay to be taken out by Stannis or Manderley. The set-up of that battle (Stannis preparing a trap, the frozen lake, traitors in the ranks, Freys who aren't great allies, and father Roose at odds with him) doesn't seem great.

OK, there is the pink letter, but I'm guessing he only thinks Stannis is dead (due to the sword being handed to him by the Manderlys?) and there will be a nasty surprise coming.

I think the northern story will be very different in the books (assuming there is ever going to be another book, that is) and Arya may go to the Vale. It's where book-LF and book-Sansa will be.

I don't think Arya's heading to the Vale, the tourney for SR going to have a disastrous outcome, and either Sansa will need to flee or be taken.

LF not on Arya's list that I remember, it will have to be Sansa to take him out.

There are names on her list that need to be removed in RR / twins I think she's going there instead.

Hopefully the book comes out before I wear out the you tube video.

Edited November 30, 2016 by GrailKing

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

I don't think Arya's heading to the Vale, the tourney for SR going to have a disastrous outcome, and either Sansa will need to flee or be taken.

I highly doubt Sansa's going to be immediately separated from Littlefinger in TWOW.  The show separated them and has been straining mightily to put them back together ever since.

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, SeanC said:

I highly doubt Sansa's going to be immediately separated from Little finger in TWOW.  The show separated them and has been straining mightily to put them back together ever since.

Yeah because they nuked her Vale story, but as far as Alayne two, vibes are the tourney for SR is going to go bad, we have the mad mouse, and I think two other people, we have Sansa coming up with the tourney for SR, Sansa knowing Baleish is grabbing up the food supplies ( remember Bronn talking about sieges ), she senses Cobray is  double dealing against LF, all this was nuked I would really like them to tie in some of this plot, yet I don't think they have the time to.

[Aziraphale]

I can't believe that the spoiler I'm most excited about is the damn wall sex. I didn't know that I wanted it and I can't even explain WHY. It's just something so... awesomely cheesy? And also really only works on screen and not in a book entirely consisting of POVs. 
Pity it's one of the few spoilers we won't be able to verify until the scene actually airs.

[Eyes High]

Before the leaks came out, I sort of thought that Season 7's plot developments would give a better indication of what the show's endgame would be, but apart from JonxDany and what appears to be a few hints that Dany won't be queen of Westeros in the end, I got nothing.

ETA: Sophie Turner on Sansa in Season 7 (from EW)

Quote

“She’s seemingly in control for the first time – and it really suits her,” Turner says. “She’s kind of having a bit of a power trip. But she’s also becoming more insecure, because there are threats to the power that she holds.”

Edited November 30, 2016 by Eyes High

[Wouter]

20 hours ago, SeanC said:

I highly doubt Sansa's going to be immediately separated from Littlefinger in TWOW.  The show separated them and has been straining mightily to put them back together ever since.

Exactly, and note that it also looks (the leaks appear to be largely accurate) that Arya will miss Jon in Winterfell - IMO an indication that an Arya/Jon reunion in the books will have to wait till after Arya finishes business elsewhere, like in the Vale and/or the Riverlands.

Sansa has been given her own supporting cast in the Vale in the books, it doesn't look like that will be dropped right away. It was probably something the show couldn't or didn't want to afford (hiring yet more actors, yet another separate storyline, even less interaction between the main cast). But in the books, I expect Sansa's main story (IMO tied to LF and what he did) to be in the Vale.

There may be some kind of fall-out from the Vale tournament, but Sansa leaving the Vale (running or kidnapped) quickly? I doubt it.

And as show followers, we must not forget that Stannis' story is not going to be identical. His position in the books relative to the Boltons is far, far stronger relative to what he had in the show. I think the show shortened his story considerably, even though I don't doubt he will fall in the books, too.

[Minneapple]

Here is the article that Sophie's quote about becoming more insecure came from:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/30/game-thrones-sophie-turner-sansa-season-7

I always called Sansa becoming a mini-Cersei. Being insecure and crazy about her power is basically Cersei's primary characteristic. And I truly believe that Sansa's story with Cersei is not over yet and they'll meet at some point again. If not on the show, then in the books most definitely.

[Wouter]

23 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Here is the article that Sophie's quote about becoming more insecure came from:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/30/game-thrones-sophie-turner-sansa-season-7

I always called Sansa becoming a mini-Cersei. Being insecure and crazy about her power is basically Cersei's primary characteristic. And I truly believe that Sansa's story with Cersei is not over yet and they'll meet at some point again. If not on the show, then in the books most definitely.

From the leaks, it doesn't seem Sansa will become a mini-Cersei. Contrary to Cersei, she will overcome LF, with the assistance of her brother and sister. Contrast this to LF playing Cersei and Tyrion against one another - succesfully.

[GrailKing]

8 hours ago, Wouter said:

From the leaks, it doesn't seem Sansa will become a mini-Cersei. Contrary to Cersei, she will overcome LF, with the assistance of her brother and sister. Contrast this to LF playing Cersei and Tyrion against one another - succesfully.

Not only this, but we have comparisons of family dynamics where one family is given love and some overprotection and the other where legacy of name and family conflicts abound, one family is loved by their bannermen and the other feared.

There so far hasn't been anything close to suggest Sansa turning into Ceresei, she may be come more pragmatic with decisions based on the practical, not just her experiences.

Can Sansa go full evil, well yes anyone could, Sansa,Arya, Bran,Danny,Jon, Jamie,Bronn, Sandor, QOT,Sandsnakes, Tyrion; Cersei's been there since she was a teen, between torture of her baby brother, to pushing a friend down a well. 

[GrailKing]

OK, this isn't a book spoiler but it is a video spoiler witch seems to confirm LEAKS.

Warning 1 :

 

SPOILER

Warning 2:

 

SPOILER

DON"T GO HERE!

I don't speak Spanish so hopefully someone will translate for us.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4HY_YKARFc&feature=youtu.be  

Edited December 2, 2016 by GrailKing

[YaddaYadda]

@GrailKing, warning 1 and 2 have nothing in them. It only says spoiler.

[Minneapple]

Well mostly I meant Sansa is becoming like Cersei character-wise with the insecurity and paranoia about her power.

[GrailKing]

13 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

@GrailKing, warning 1 and 2 have nothing in them. It only says spoiler.

Yes, it's intentional,did you goto the final link?

[YaddaYadda]

1 minute ago, GrailKing said:

Yes, it's intentional,did you goto the final link?

Oh, never mind! I get what you did there. I saw spoilers, and that's really all I saw, so yeah...

[GrailKing]

11 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Well mostly I meant Sansa is becoming like Cersei character-wise with the insecurity and paranoia about her power.

Insecurity yes, paranoia not quite, just my take.

She sees the world with what she knows and sees; Sansa also has to reacclimatizes to the North between being surrounded by mom's views then years south, she has lost touch.

Her view of the North was naive and believing or wanting to believe what her father said was true, but discounting what Robb's actions cost the North and her house.

Sansa has never sat in a conference learning what Robb,Jon and Bran learned, never had Maester Lewin teach her the art of ruling or wars, she is basically self teaching herself as she goes.

Brienne  and Bran need to use the teleporter  quickly.

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

OK, this isn't a book spoiler but it is a video spoiler witch seems to confirm LEAKS.

I don't speak Spanish so hopefully someone will translate for us.

  Hide contents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4HY_YKARFc&feature=youtu.be  

In that video the dude talks about the fan theory that Sansa will learn that LF was responsible for the attempt on Bran's life (which I put forward, but I don't think I was the only one to have thought of it). Remember that Maisie Williams said that Season 7 will make you go back and rethink everything. Since we know from the leaks that that is unlikely to apply to any other plotlines in Season 7, I wonder if Sansa gets some sort of information dump from Bran about everything LF was responsible for.

We already know LF did the following things that Sansa and the other surviving Starks have no idea that he did:

1. Conspiring with Lysa to murder Jon Arryn. (Sansa does hear Lysa say "I killed for you" in the show but there's no indication that she understands what Lysa is saying.)

2. Getting Lysa to send a letter to Catelyn claiming that the Lannisters murdered Jon Arryn.

3. Lying about having lost his dagger to Tyrion Lannister.

4. Colluding with Ned and then betraying him.

5. Blabbing about Sansa's planned betrothal to Loras Tyrell to Cersei.

There are two other things that LF may be blamed for in the show (one non-book, one hinted at in the books):

6. Ordering the assassination attempt on Bran's life. (Tyrion believes Joffrey did this in the books, although it's never confirmed.) 

7. Convincing Joffrey to have Ned executed.

In the books, it seems to be hinted that LF convinced Joffrey to execute Ned instead of sending him to the Wall (queen--of--thorns on Tumblr and others over the years have laid out convincing arguments, which I'll attempt to paraphrase here):

a. Varys, while talking about power, asks "Who truly killed Eddard Stark? Was it Joffrey, who gave the command? Ser Ilyn Payne? Or...another?" He also says in that same conversation that a small man can cast a very large shadow. Tyrion takes this as a compliment directed at him, but is it?

b. In the books, Arya notices that LF is present at the execution, but when Joffrey orders that Ned be executed, it's Varys and Cersei who rush to him to try to change his mind, not LF.

c. In the books, Tyrion also comments that Ser Ilyn Payne and co. sprang into action so swiftly when Joffrey gave the order, that it was almost as if they knew that it was going to happen...which means that Joffrey had made up his mind ahead of time.

So, those are the books. What about the show?

I went back and rewatched Ned's Season 1 execution scene. I had thought for some reason that LF wasn't even there, but nope, there he is, standing below Sansa. When Joffrey gives the order, you see Varys hustle over to talk to Joffrey. The next shot of LF is him standing calmly looking on as Ned is about to be executed, cool as a cucumber; he hadn't moved a muscle in the whole scene, as opposed to Varys who flipped his shit. At the time, I didn't even notice it, but in hindsight, it's one of the strangest things about the scene: the only person who doesn't react to Joffrey giving the order is Littlefinger.

Varys does have a version of his ACOK conversation with Tyrion in the show, but the dialogue was changed to "Why do we pretend kings hold all the power? When Ned Stark lost his head, who was truly responsible? Joffrey, the executioner, or something else?"

I'm thinking Bran manages to drag Sansa into the weirwood Internet--something something magical Stark blood, I dunno--and give her a vision infodump of seven seasons' worth of LF's bullshit--possibly including LF's "I'm going to fuck them" speech, who knows?--which is why she looks so shaken as she's stalking away from the godswood in that shot. 

Confirming one or more of fans' theories about LF regarding Season 1 events would certainly give fans cause to go back and rewatch the series in light of that new information.

Strictly from a fan perspective, I would find it more satisfying if the surviving Starks execute LF with full knowledge of his crimes against their family, not just with one (albeit very important) piece such as LF betraying Ned in KL.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Eyes High