S04.E02: Bates Boys Birthday Bash

[MMLEsq]

I know some people have already posted about this episode in the Episode 01 thread, but I figured I'd start a separate thread for this anyway.

I was always sort of neutral about Trace before this episode, but you can count me as a Trace fan now.  He was so sweet with Jeb.  I also liked how he said "Love ya" to the family when he and Jeb were leaving to get ice cream.  It seemed very natural -- not like something he said just because the cameras were there.  

I also liked that Erin is teaching Warden (?? -- I always get the three middle boys mixed up) how to cook. Granted, making a cake from a box isn't exactly setting the culinary world on fire, but it's a start.

[Sew Sumi]

And of course, camerahog Lawson carries in the (pink) cake. It did crack me up watching those Gothardized men eating girly PINK cake. 

Edited June 10, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[Absolom]

Ratings:  295K viewers and a .10 rating.

[birkenstock]

Quote

Erin still can't go anywhere or anything without Chad now.  He was there for her recording and again last night for the speech for the girl scouts.  He spoke too, of course.  It's the bashful, second class attitude of the females that gets them.  I don't see Erin's piano slamming to be compatible with her broker's guitar and harmony.

Micks Picks wrote this in a different episode thread and I wanted to comment here.  

I was disappointed that Chad attended the Girl's only Valentine's Day. While Chad had some really nice things to say about Erin, Erin's words alone about self-worth were all that the girls needed to hear. I thought the whole point of the event was how girls didn't need male approval. I wonder if it's that Erin insisted he come along or if Chad wanted to go both the recording and the Galentine's Day event. I understand him going to the recording for moral support, but it just seemed so unnecessary to go to the other event when Katie was along to take care of Carson.  Erin kept looking at him for reassurance so that may be why he came up with, but it just bothered me. If she needed someone, bring up Katie (only if she felt comfortable) to talk about how she find encouragement from others. I really do enjoy watching them and I usually love seeing Paine family, but this made me smh.

Jeb did commandeer Trace's boys' night.  I think that Kelly Jo and Gil would have shut that down if Trace was unhappy though.  It's nice that they have that bond and that Trace takes Jeb's feelings into such consideration. I also like that they didn't wave off Warden's cake making skills and encouraged Erin teaching him. The Little Rascals he-man woman haters club reference surprised me. 

[cereality]

I commented on the other post that I had wished Trace's birthday wasn't subject to the demands of a 4 yr old -- but I tend to agree with other posters there -- than Jeb realistically went to bed pretty early and likely Gil took and him the younger boys home so that Trace and the 20+ yr old crowd could chill and watch movies.

I really like the way they are raising their family in the confines of a very traditional faith. I like that they let the kids be who they are. I think it's hysterical that Jeb in his 4 yr old way says that his BFFs are himself (LOL); mommy; daddy; and Trace. I love that his sisters were saying they've tried to bribe him by promising him ice cream and playing games with him to nab a spot on his list and even Erin laughed it off and said "it's a pretty exclusive list." I think that's great. Yet in the Duggar household I'm willing to be it would not be "allowed" and he'd be lectured and/or told that he loves all his siblings the same and they are ALL his BFFs.

It's sweet to see 19 yr old Trace's relationship with his 4 yr old brother. I wonder if this will be a lifelong best friend/mentor for him and if 40 yr old Trace will be best man at 25 yr old Jeb's wedding.

I also think it's great for the 15 (or so) unmarried kids that they have Zach & Whitney and Erin & Chad close by bc now they can see true examples of people who believe the same faith and yet slightly differently than their parents and realize that that is just fine. Little things like Zach saying the older boys come over to watch movies at his house often and Trace wanted to do a guys' movie night for his birthday. It's good that they realize that likely the Bourne series or Spiderman or whatever does not mean you're some heathen going to hell. It's great that the kids go to Erin's house and cook with her and it's one of the BOYS who has taken an interest in cooking and is learning from her. I mean I realize it was only boxed cake that Isiah (Warden?) made, but in the Duggar household he would NOT be doing that as that would be branded women's work and Whitney would have been kept around to make the cake for the boys birthday. Yet in that episode it seemed like Isiah was making the cake by himself with Gil kind of overseeing -- probably to make sure he didn't set Zach's house on fire or something.

I didn't understand why Chad went to that teen girls youth group or whatever it was when Erin was speaking. I mean the whole theme of it was -- you don't need a man for validation bc you have the Lord, and there you have a man sitting there and validating that choice?! I have to imagine that Erin spoke or emailed with that girl at least once and knew what the theme was, so why did she think it was ok to involve her husband in a purely women's issue?? It was in South Carolina and I understand Erin not wanting to drive there by herself or just with Katie. So why not bring Chad, Carson, and Katie and while Erin and Katie go to the event (which was so small and casual and Friday-night-youth-group like that it could not have been more than 60-90 min), Chad and Carson hang at the hotel, maybe eat dinner, and then get ready to drive back to Tenn. when they're done??

[SongbirdHollow]

"I just want to be the thumb!" Hilarious!

Totally agree about the Galentine's Day, though. Even we on the boards tend to idolize Chad...I can't believe those girls wouldn't be swooning over him and missing the message. Which I'm not sure they really believe anyway, in that world.

[cereality]

Agreed. You know the girls were NOT believing or really even listening to the -- Lord loves you, you don't NEED a man esp. at your pre-teen/teen ages -- message; rather they were making sideways glances at Chad thinking, if I'm Godly enough and pray hard enough maybe God will send me a man like Chad.

Who was shown in the next episode courting/getting to know you? Is that Carlin or Tori? That guy looks handsome like all the sons in law and said something about being intimidated by the Bates. Wonder if he's intimidated by his date -- both those girls are LOUD and opinionated. Any intel on him? I'm just glad it's not a Duggar bc there was some talk last yr about Joseph Duggar with one of those girls since he's of the same age and is (was?) going to school with them.

[BitterApple]

24 minutes ago, cereality said:

Agreed. You know the girls were NOT believing or really even listening to the -- Lord loves you, you don't NEED a man esp. at your pre-teen/teen ages -- message; rather they were making sideways glances at Chad thinking, if I'm Godly enough and pray hard enough maybe God will send me a man like Chad.

 

Yeah, the idea that any of these Fundies actually believe they don't need a man is laughable; their entire lives revolve around marriage and babies. As for Erin, I'm a tad more cynical. I like her, but I also think she likes showing off her handsome husband and "perfect" life. If Chad so much as holds the door for her, she's posting about it on Instagtam with ten different hash tags.

I do feel badly for women in their circles though, because it seems like there aren't enough eligible men to go around. A guy might marry outside the cult like Zach did, but you don't seem to see that with the females. They just end up as SAHD's, like Jana Duggar, Tabitha Paine and Sarah Maxwell.

[cereality]

As much as the Bates act more "normal" in their day to day behaviors, they ARE fundie through and through and the values and beliefs are very deeply ingrained. Every time I hear them say "you don't NEED a man" or "you'll have as many babies as the Lord wills, it's ok if it's just you and Chad or you just have 1 baby," I always see it as "insurance." Come on -- there are 15 unmarried siblings. What if one or two never get married? Or get married and get divorced? What if one of them never has babies bc they don't want to or they can't. Statistically in a family that big, all of those things are likely to happen at least once. This way they can still go on loving and accepting that family instead of shunning them aside a bit bc they can say "oh we NEVER believed that the Lord wills that everyone will get married or have babies, it's just fine bc Warden is living out the Lord's will be being a bachelor for life."

I think there are plenty of fundie men to go around, but not a huge number of "marriable" fundie men. In a lot of these families there is NO belief in education -- so they often don't even have a GED and forget about college and trade school. Yet these women are used to living nicely -- I mean Jana Duggar is used to living in a mansion and traveling due to TLC money. Tabitha Paine's dad is a doctor. I think these girls' dads -- while they DESPARATELY want their daughters to marry -- they realize that their daughters are used to nice homes and will not be able to adjust to living on a windshield repairers salary (like Mike Seewald) or living in a trailer park raising their 9 kids (like Anna Duggar's parents). In that cult, if you're a guy who can provide, you must be worth your weight in gold -- which explains Chad (finance manager at a local company); John (HVAC tech and owns his own office cleaning service on the side); Brandon (an employed fundie preacher); Zach (cop); Derick Dillard (accountant even though he doesn't do that anymore - he could). Not every fundie girl is going to be agreeable to marrying a Ben Seewald kind of guy with no degree, no future plans and just making some cash doing odd jobs for his father in law. Sure I'm sure there are some fundie households where life is so miserable that the girls want out even if it means marrying someone with no education/skills, but in a home like the Bates -- where they live nicely and have a pleasant life -- I can't see Tori or Carlin just marrying anyone so that they can live in a trailer park -- I think they'd rather stay in their nice home, get a local retail job and live until the right guy comes along.

Edited June 11, 2016 by cereality

[andromeda331]

Not only do I agree that's how Erin's speech went. Sure she said all that but guess what? It got her a man. Chad "saw" all of that and wanted to court and marry her.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, cereality said:

Agreed. You know the girls were NOT believing or really even listening to the -- Lord loves you, you don't NEED a man esp. at your pre-teen/teen ages -- message; rather they were making sideways glances at Chad thinking, if I'm Godly enough and pray hard enough maybe God will send me a man like Chad.

Who was shown in the next episode courting/getting to know you? Is that Carlin or Tori? That guy looks handsome like all the sons in law and said something about being intimidated by the Bates. Wonder if he's intimidated by his date -- both those girls are LOUD and opinionated. Any intel on him? I'm just glad it's not a Duggar bc there was some talk last yr about Joseph Duggar with one of those girls since he's of the same age and is (was?) going to school with them.

I'm not sure if its a spoiler or not because the episode description on one of the fan sites but in case it is,

Spoiler

that's Tori's friend Bobby Smith. He'll be in the next episode which is the Bates I love you Day

[Sew Sumi]

No secret. The Bateses shared the flower moment on social media. Now, what I hope they explain is how they wait until Tori graduates before they marry. Bobby goes to PCC, but I am not sure if he just graduated or has another year left. I hope Tori continues with her education, as inadequate as it is, before she's put into the housewife box.

That said, Erin should have   taken Katie to tend to Carson and left Chad at home for the speech.I agree that showing up with your prize in front of a group of teenage girls feeds into the Prince Charming mindset. It was also  an interesting edit, considering the open bible on the dais, but no verses openly spouted.

PS: Don't equate this with Girl Scouts. Other than the fact that they share XX genes, I saw nothing in common with my scouting experience.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[cereality]

What's PCC? Any idea what he's doing/studying? What about her? Is she the one that was shown in a prior season at school being really social and enjoying school and saying it's hard to go home? And the one who called her grandma to tell her her GPA and was rewarded with some shopping?

[Sew Sumi]

PCC = Pensacola Christian College. Basically Clown College on a larger scale. Bobby only has two sisters, but all the pics and Intel I've seen on him indicates that he's uber-fundie. They are most certainly Gothardites; how else would Tori, of Clown College, have met him?

[alt0233]

The group that Erin was talking to isn't the Girl Scouts who sell cookies.  It's American Heritage Girls, a conservative Christian organization formed as an alternative to Girl Scouts of the USA since the mainstream organization has some more liberal policies (such as allowing atheists, lesbians, and transgender girls.)

[SongbirdHollow]

According to their website, under "Inclusion" they welcome all "biological" girls who adhere to their principles. Christ on a cracker.

[BitterApple]

5 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

According to their website, under "Inclusion" they welcome all "biological" girls who adhere to their principles. Christ on a cracker.

Everyone knows Transgenders are single-minded in their goal to corrupt Fundie girls. Thank God, there are guys like Bill Gothard and Josh Duggar around to protect them. Oh, wait......

[maraleia]

On 6/12/2016 at 10:38 PM, BitterApple said:

Everyone knows Transgenders are single-minded in their goal to corrupt Fundie girls. Thank God, there are guys like Bill Gothard and Josh Duggar around to protect them. Oh, wait......

Love your comment but it's not transgenders it's transgender people.

[SnarkyMcSnarkerson]

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 4:56 PM, SongbirdHollow said:

According to their website, under "Inclusion" they welcome all "biological" girls who adhere to their principles. Christ on a cracker.

Wouldn't it be fun if a transgender male attended a meeting just to spite them?!  He would satisfy their "biological" girl requirement lol.