S10.E27: Live Finale, Part 1

[Adusk81]

Ok tonight really solidified my issue with Hannah. While she is very pretty and has a great voice, she is no artist by any means. the other 3 all presented songs that were personal and meant something to them. They were not written for the show. They were from moments in their lives. I didn't love them but that's not the point. Then there is Hannah who basically admitted she's never written a song. Maybe she has, who knows but instead of showing creativity or originality she let pharrell throw together some void of substance, pop by numbers, repetitive Beyoncé b-side garbage. That was just terrible. What a waste of opportunity. You're in the finale with 3 people who know without a doubt who they are as artists. Show up or go home. Hannah, sadly chose not to show up. Laith for the win. It won't happen but one can hope.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Adusk81

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Voice Finals Deliver, Carson Says Meh

Adam forgot to study for finals, but Alisan's near-flawless performances mean that we won't be grading on a curve. Either way, Carson's not impressed.

[limecoke]

I would pick Laith as "The Instrumentalist", and Alisan for "The Voice."  Anyone who sings "Every Breath You Take" is automatically dead to me.  Adam is good but just doesn't do it for me.  No matter how this goes, none of them will be the first breakout star of The Voice.   

[bluepiano]

1 hour ago, InfiniteMystery said:

I went back and replayed Adam's earlier performances, and the contrast between them and last night is striking. I honestly don't understand it, but something just was not the same. Perhaps you're right that the bluesy, soul, even gospel influences weren't there. But, that is his single, with no input from Blake. He just seemed muted somehow and not himself.

I think he's a naturally introverted person, but when he does a fun, exuberant song like "I Got a Woman" it helps him to get beyond that and be more of a performer. I thought the song he wrote was good, but for his cover he should've picked something more upbeat. (I'm one of those non-country people Blake was talking about, who know nothing about Vince Gill). Watching Adam last night I thought about Charlie Rich, another piano playing country singer with a blues/jazz side. (He actually began as a rocker, on Sun Records with Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis). I would've loved to hear Adam do Rich's "Lonely Weekends."

As for Hannah, I think she would be the first to admit she is not an "artist" in terms of having a well-developed musical personality. That goes along with her inexperience. Before The Voice she was a pre-school teacher who sang in public a couple of times a year. So it's natural that she would rely for direction on Pharrell, more than the other finalists needed to rely on their coaches. Especially since, whether he's your cup or not (and he's not mine), he does have a reputation as a hit-maker.

Maybe with time and experience she could find her own identity. If not, the truth is that there are a lot of commercially successful singers who write none of their own material, and depend on producers and arrangers to craft their music for them.

[Noreaster]

4 hours ago, windtrix said:

I think Hannah had an unfair advantage on the original song with Pharrell writing and producing it. It wasn't even her idea and did not suit her. Unlike the other judges, he is a multiple Grammy winning producer and really excels in that area. Honestly, I didn't watch the others' working on their originals so I am wondering if any of them (unlike Hannah) actually came up with their own ideas or lyrics?

I wouldn't call it unfair but yeah, Hannah's original is really a Pharrell song with seemingly limited input by Hannah. The other originals were all written by the contestants themselves (Laith and Adam wrote their songs prior to the show, I don't know about Alisan).  

I think it's great that the show allowed the contestants to perform their own originals.  They get to really show who they are as artists.  I remember Joshua Davis in season 8 talking (in post-show interviews) about how he had to fight the producers to allow this.  So he and Meghan Lindsey (sp?) got to sing their own songs.  The other two finalists (Sawyer and Koryn) who were really young and inexperienced did not write their "originals". 

Hannah happens to be the only non-professional in this finalist group.  Even her cover, which I thought was great, wasn't really her own arrangement (she mentioned collaborating with Paul Mirkovich, the band, and Pharrell on this). But hey, like others have said, a lot of successful pop artists don't write or arrange their own stuff.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Noreaster

[viajero]

I thought Alisan won the night hands down.  She was the only one who was good on all three performances, while the others all faltered at some point.  Having said that, my overall favorite performance was Hannah's Every Breath You Take and I'm glad to see that it made No. 3 on iTunes.

The biggest disappointment for me was Adam.  I was finally coming around to being happy with him winning after his superb I'm Sorry last week.  But his mind just didn't seem to be in it this week and even his vocals were spotty on his first two performances.  His original song is very good, but his delivery lacked intensity and he his enunciation could have been better.

Laith was fun, but also did not deliver his best vocals on any of his performances.  Plus his original song was the least "original" sounding of the bunch.

I'm most torn by Hannah's original song.  I thought it had the most potential to be a hit on the radio these days, but was also a bit half baked.  She did not seem entirely comfortable performing the song.  They could have used another week to pull it together.

[simplyme]

16 hours ago, DownTheShore said:

Alisan is the shoo-in, so I didn't bother voting for her. She and Paxton need to be on the Broadway stage.

Hasn't Alisan been on Broadway?  Or was her musical theater off-Broadway?

I don't know that Paxton has the flat-out voice for Broadway, but he's such an entertainer that I think he'd be great as a recording artist and performer if he chooses the right songs and genre.  You don't have to have an amazing voice to have a successful career in music.  Look at Usher or Willie Nelson or Bob Dylan.  Three very different styles, all very successful.  (Usher has a much better voice than Willie or Bob, but their songwriting puts his to shame, IMO.)

Anyways, I'm not sure Alisan is the shoo-in.  I wouldn't be surprised if Adam sneaks in there for the win despite his enunciation issues.  I mean, look how well Barrett Baber did last year, and Adam has about ten times his talent.  (Sorry to remind people about the horror that was Barrett.)

[zxy556575]

Quote

I stick with my opinion that Laith is a good entertainer but his singing is nothing special, and he does not deserve to win the title of "The Voice."

I'm rooting for the guy but can't even give him credit as a good entertainer. The backing drummer and guitarist seemed like they were having more fun on White Room that he was; guy stood there like a stump, vaguely nodding his head with the beat.

[Kromm]

I'm thinking Alisan loses mostly because of the combo of her a.) not being "country" b.) being on Christina's team, and America might like Christina as a singer somewhat, but not as a "personality" c.) she doesn't have the hook other female winners of reality singing shows have had--she's not sexy, nor the colorful Diva character, or the Country girl (I know that's being said twice, but this time it's a subcategory of something else).

We shall see.

[Kendall]

4 hours ago, Adusk81 said:

Ok tonight really solidified my issue with Hannah. While she is very pretty and has a great voice, she is no artist by any means. the other 3 all presented songs that were personal and meant something to them. They were not written for the show. They were from moments in their lives. I didn't love them but that's not the point. Then there is Hannah who basically admitted she's never written a song. Maybe she has, who knows but instead of showing creativity or originality she let pharrell throw together some void of substance, pop by numbers, repetitive Beyoncé b-side garbage. That was just terrible. What a waste of opportunity. You're in the finale with 3 people who know without a doubt who they are as artists. Show up or go home. Hannah, sadly chose not to show up. Laith for the win. It won't happen but one can hope.

This obsession with singers having to be songwriters is a huge part of the reason why so much of music nowadays is lacking. It really isn't as easy as sitting down with a piece of paper and pen in hand. The singer-songwriter, at least one of worth, is actually the rarity, not the norm.

Motown, The Brill Building, Philly Soul, etc. all of those entities had specific songwriters and music assembly lines and then they had singers that sang the songs. People were doing what they were best at doing, rarely crossing the line and classics were churned out. What's the point of having a "personally written" song that stinks versus a song written by someone else that moves the world? Do people even realize how much less music and how many brilliant careers we would've never experienced if everyone just had to be a singer-songwriter?

I guess I just don't understand the suggestion that if someone didn't write the song, it couldn't possibly mean as much to the singer. How do people have favorite songs as the soundtrack of their lives then? They didn't write or sing the song, they just listened, but can still wax poetic about how much it means to them.

[Kromm]

BTW: that thing with the line of people holding lanterns has to be some of the most ridiculous staging ever (and this show has had some doosies).

Edited May 25, 2016 by Kromm

[Dodginblue]

19 minutes ago, Kendall said:

This obsession with singers having to be songwriters is a huge part of the reason why so much of music nowadays is lacking. It really isn't as easy as sitting down with a piece of paper and pen in hand. The singer-songwriter, at least one of worth, is actually the rarity, not the norm.

Motown, The Brill Building, Philly Soul, etc. all of those entities had specific songwriters and music assembly lines and then they had singers that sang the songs. People were doing what they were best at doing, rarely crossing the line and classics were churned out. What's the point of having a "personally written" song that stinks versus a song written by someone else that moves the world? Do people even realize how much less music and how many brilliant careers we would've never experienced if everyone just had to be a singer-songwriter?

I guess I just don't understand the suggestion that if someone didn't write the song, it couldn't possibly mean as much to the singer. How do people have favorite songs as the soundtrack of their lives then? They didn't write or sing the song, they just listened, but can still wax poetic about how much it means to them.

It seems as though the more popular and successful singers these days do write a lot of their own material, Taylor Swift, Adele, Meghan Trainor, people like that.  I'm not in the music business so I don't know exactly why that is but I would imagine that it's just easier to produce someone who comes with his or her own music as opposed to someone who has a great voice but you have to find material for that person.    

i don't think a person has to have written a song to have it be meaningful and touch people.  Dolly Parton wrote one of Whitney Houston's most popular and successful songs, I Will Always Love You, and I think most people would agree that Whitney's version is amazing and heart-felt and all that.  And Dolly has made a lot of money off Whitney singing her song.  

[viajero]

6 hours ago, windtrix said:

I think Hannah had an unfair advantage on the original song with Pharrell writing and producing it. It wasn't even her idea and did not suit her. Unlike the other judges, he is a multiple Grammy winning producer and really excels in that area. Honestly, I didn't watch the others' working on their originals so I am wondering if any of them (unlike Hannah) actually came up with their own ideas or lyrics?

I think she was equally at a disadvantage because she was the only one who sang something "new" that she hadn't performed multiple times previously.  Plus this seemed like something Pharrell threw together on the spot with Hannah in the studio.  The song was a bit uneven and needed some ironing out.  At least it was clearly inspired by her experience on the show.

Overall I think Hannah was at a distinct disadvantage as the only amateur among a group of very experienced pros.  As others have noted, she's only now beginning to figure out her musical identity.  But I do think she's taking steps in that direction.  In previous weeks Pharrell seemed to give her a lot of leeway in choosing and arranging her songs.

I think Hannah has a great deal of potential if someone has the patience to work with her.  She has the voice and the looks, plus a dose of charisma on stage that is a bit unexpected given how introverted and awkwardly self-contained she seems offstage.

[sarkygal]

Maybe because the actual winning artists haven't had mainstream success, it's only the coaches' aspect of the competition I can invest in for a finale. I want an Xtina win more than I want an Alisan win. Adam has been consistent, but I have a problem with his enunciation. Laith sold some records and got great name recognition; he won't lack for gigs. Hannah's a sweetie with a lovely voice, but she's kinda meh.

[Kendall]

45 minutes ago, Dodginblue said:

It seems as though the more popular and successful singers these days do write a lot of their own material, Taylor Swift, Adele, Meghan Trainor, people like that.  I'm not in the music business so I don't know exactly why that is but I would imagine that it's just easier to produce someone who comes with his or her own music as opposed to someone who has a great voice but you have to find material for that person.    

i don't think a person has to have written a song to have it be meaningful and touch people.  Dolly Parton wrote one of Whitney Houston's most popular and successful songs, I Will Always Love You, and I think most people would agree that Whitney's version is amazing and heart-felt and all that.  And Dolly has made a lot of money off Whitney singing her song.  

While I do believe that both Taylor and Adele write their own music, there have been stories and innuendo about how much Taylor actually writes. I don't know, don't really care. Taylor's not my favorite, but I have been in situations where I didn't have a choice but to listen to some of her songs and they were rather good and catchy.

I will have to wait on Meghan Trainor as while "All About that Bass" may have been a hit, I don't think many would call it a future classic. We'll see. As for this uptick in singer-songwriters, a lot of that is smoke, mirrors and PR. All of these "prolific" songwriters, but no one else ever sings one of your songs? Lots of people have sung original songs written by R. Kelly, Babyface, Brian McKnight, even Alicia Keys and Mariah, but who else has sung a song "written" by Beyonce?

45 minutes ago, viajero said:

I think she was equally at a disadvantage because she was the only one who sang something "new" that she hadn't performed multiple times previously.  Plus this seemed like something Pharrell threw together on the spot with Hannah in the studio.  The song was a bit uneven and needed some ironing out.  At least it was clearly inspired by her experience on the show.

 

Great point! I had to give the side eye when Alisan said that she was learning the song as she was making the video. How or rather why would you have to learn a song that you "wrote"? Exactly how many words did you contribute?

[Adusk81]

1 hour ago, Kendall said:

This obsession with singers having to be songwriters is a huge part of the reason why so much of music nowadays is lacking. It really isn't as easy as sitting down with a piece of paper and pen in hand. The singer-songwriter, at least one of worth, is actually the rarity, not the norm.

Motown, The Brill Building, Philly Soul, etc. all of those entities had specific songwriters and music assembly lines and then they had singers that sang the songs. People were doing what they were best at doing, rarely crossing the line and classics were churned out. What's the point of having a "personally written" song that stinks versus a song written by someone else that moves the world? Do people even realize how much less music and how many brilliant careers we would've never experienced if everyone just had to be a singer-songwriter?

I guess I just don't understand the suggestion that if someone didn't write the song, it couldn't possibly mean as much to the singer. How do people have favorite songs as the soundtrack of their lives then? They didn't write or sing the song, they just listened, but can still wax poetic about how much it means to them.

A musician who doesn't at least create some of their own material is less valid artistically than one who does. If you don't create your own music at all then you are merely presenting product. Whether we find it to be "good" or not is irrelevant. If you wanna be a singer but have no songs of your own then you're an entertainer, not an artist.  Which is fine. Be what you want to be. I'm just saying that compared to the others who write and feel their songs deeply, you're going to fall short. Same can be sad for any other type of art. If you don't create it yourself, you are not an artist. Simply because you have a nice voice isn't enough. If you have a desire to cook and claim to be a chef them microwave a stouffers lasagna, you're not a chef. 

[bluepiano]

1 hour ago, Kromm said:

BTW: that thing with the line of people holding lanterns has to be some of the most ridiculous staging every (and this show has had some doosies).

Yup, the lantern thing was really, really dumb. It almost made me start laughing. Several other numbers were similarly over staged. Like Hannah being led down the stairs, where there was a white piano and violinists all in white. Like she had just ascended to heaven. (Though in that case she should've walked up a flight of stairs, not down.)

As I remember, this show started years ago with simple staging and minimum effects, like they actually wanted the attention to be on "the voice." It was one of the ways in which they seemed to be the anti-American Idol. But now they often outdo Idol in terms of schlocky, over-the-top production values. Not to mention that we have to watch the same stupid arm waving that originated with AI.

This was the second time that Adam Levine made a point of talking about the inept, rhythm challenged audience clapping. That's happened for years on all singing competition shows, but I've never heard it discussed. It's like it was this dirty little secret no one's supposed to mention.

The irony of Hannah's original song being called "I Call the Shots" is that based on what we saw of her working with Pharrell, she clearly wasn't.

Edited May 25, 2016 by bluepiano

[pivot]

4 hours ago, Kromm said:

BTW: that thing with the line of people holding lanterns has to be some of the most ridiculous staging ever (and this show has had some doosies).

Nothing will ever top the stupid fake row boats from Melanie Martinez's performance during season 3. That was epic.

[Kendall]

2 hours ago, Adusk81 said:

A musician who doesn't at least create some of their own material is less valid artistically than one who does. If you don't create your own music at all then you are merely presenting product. Whether we find it to be "good" or not is irrelevant. If you wanna be a singer but have no songs of your own then you're an entertainer, not an artist.  Which is fine. Be what you want to be. I'm just saying that compared to the others who write and feel their songs deeply, you're going to fall short. Same can be sad for any other type of art. If you don't create it yourself, you are not an artist. Simply because you have a nice voice isn't enough. If you have a desire to cook and claim to be a chef them microwave a stouffers lasagna, you're not a chef. 

There are very few songs that Aretha Franklin has written and she has written many, that will ever have the same kind of impact on music than what "Natural Woman" written by Carole King, but immortalized by Aretha, has.

And anybody that seriously tries to suggest that a songwriting Justin Timberlake or Alicia Keys are more valid artistically than Frank Sinatra, Dionne Warwick, Barbra Streisand, Diana Ross or Whitney Freakin' Houston is nuts. Anyone that would try to suggest that even the songwriting/singing of a R. Kelly or Babyface has made more of a contribution or impact on music than the aforementioned five singers is nuts.

Now, obviously this all opinion and you seem firm in yours, but as I said before, many, many, MANY significant and influential careers would not have ever happened if every singer had to write their own song.

On the other hand, there would be a lot more marginal "singer/songwriters" that would have been seen as the overrated frauds that they are if not for this misguided obsession with the idea of them being the elite.

[simplyme]

3 hours ago, Adusk81 said:

A musician who doesn't at least create some of their own material is less valid artistically than one who does. If you don't create your own music at all then you are merely presenting product. 

I would say that I value people either as performers (singers, musicians, etc) or as songwriters/composers, and some people do both well and get valued in both categories.  But suggesting that someone who is an amazing is not as valid as whoever wrote the music he or she performs is certainly not a view I subscribe to.

For example, although Meghan Trainer may write some of her own lyrics, I probably would rate Yo-Yo Ma as a greater artistic talent.

[Noreaster]

14 hours ago, Adusk81 said:

A musician who doesn't at least create some of their own material is less valid artistically than one who does. If you don't create your own music at all then you are merely presenting product. Whether we find it to be "good" or not is irrelevant. If you wanna be a singer but have no songs of your own then you're an entertainer, not an artist.  Which is fine. Be what you want to be. I'm just saying that compared to the others who write and feel their songs deeply, you're going to fall short. Same can be sad for any other type of art. If you don't create it yourself, you are not an artist. Simply because you have a nice voice isn't enough. If you have a desire to cook and claim to be a chef them microwave a stouffers lasagna, you're not a chef. 

Yeah, I think I understand what you're saying.  I generally have a different level of respect toward those who are also involved in the creation of the product.  Which is not to say that I don't appreciate those who are just vocalists because there is an element of artistry there as well.  But it's not the same.  

For The Voice, I generally favor those contestants who appear to infuse their own artistry into the performances.  So when I'm familiar with the songs that they're performing and I see that the contestants are rearranging the songs or adding their own twists somehow, I appreciate that.  (Of course, execution matters too.)  It's one reason why, over the seasons, I find myself rooting for Adam's contestants and not for Blake's contestants.  Adam usually encourages doing things differently or performing songs out-of-the-box.  Blake usually recommends staying within a more narrow range and doing more straight covers.  

I will say though that it seems that Blake might be changing on that front.  Last season, I was surprised that Barrett did "Ghost".  So not-country, so out-of-the-box.  This season, it seems (from the parts that I watched) that Blake was very encouraging of the changes that Adam Wakefield wanted to bring to his performances.  This is the stuff that I enjoy seeing, even if it's risky and the execution doesn't always work.  

Edited May 25, 2016 by Noreaster

[viajero]

18 hours ago, bluepiano said:

As I remember, this show started years ago with simple staging and minimum effects, like they actually wanted the attention to be on "the voice." It was one of the ways in which they seemed to be the anti-American Idol. But now they often outdo Idol in terms of schlocky, over-the-top production values. Not to mention that we have to watch the same stupid arm waving that originated with AI.

The irony of Hannah's original song being called "I Call the Shots" is that based on what we saw of her working with Pharrell, she clearly wasn't.

I don't quite agree with either point.  On the first, one of the things I really miss about the early seasons was the care they took with the elaborate production of some of the performances.  This was particularly true with CeeLo, which forced the other coaches to step up their game.  For instance, back them the coaches duets with their finalists were not nearly as lame as they tend to be now.

As for Hannah, from what we saw of her rehearsal sessions through most of the season, Pharrell really did let her call most of the shots.

[Jextella]

From m-w.com:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/art

Simple Definition of art

: something that is created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings

: works created by artists : paintings, sculptures, etc., that are created to be beautiful or to express important ideas or feelings

: the methods and skills used for painting, sculpting, drawing, etc.

Agree that singing and songwriting are both art - but different kinds of art.  

Not to get all weird, but every human being on the planet is an artist.  We create and express every second of the day (def 1). 

Those that create with the intention of creating something beautiful or to express important ideas or feelings is a subset (def 2).  singers, songwriters, painters, etc. 

[Kendall]

6 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Do you have to invent lasagna and every other dish you make to be a worthy chef, though? 

Singing is an art.  Period.  Songwriting is a different art.  

Sometimes a hugely successful and prolific songwriter doesn't feel the songs deeply.  Diane Warren says she's never been in love, for example.  It hasn't stopped singers from having huge success with her love songs.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Warren

Ding! DING!! DING!!!

How many times have we heard an amazing singer save a rather bland and trite song? I'm just not prepared to say, "nah, you just lucked out with a great voice, but the guy who wrote Old McDonald Had a Farm? Now, he's an artist. You should be more like him!"

And what about the prolific musicians that never write music, just play it? Are they too lesser artists than the musicians that tout themselves as songwriters?

There are too many mediocre songwriters and people standing or sitting behind an instrument, but barely functional for me to give an automatic stamp of artistry. Go listen to Lauryn Hill's MTV Unplugged. After about the third or fourth straight song of the same three chords on her guitar... Whew! Lord, if that ain't proof that too much praise is given to the songwriter/musician, I don't know what is and I love Lauryn.