Season 12 Spoilers, Speculation and Anticipation

[Droogie]

41 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

pretty sure if Matthew wants time off it would be October, given his love for fall and Halloween especially, deferring it to later in the season makes no sense.

Yup.  And at this point, I just hope Matthew is looking after Matthew.

[Bookish Jen]

1 minute ago, Droogie said:

Yup.  And at this point, I just hope Matthew is looking after Matthew.

I hope everyone is looking after themselves on the CM set, and here my lovelies. Self-care is so important. I need to remind myself of that more and more each day.

[ReidFan]

I guess it might be bluddy obvious now, but I'm thinking his 'morbid depression' tweet came on the heels of Thomas being suspended (at the time, it was before the firing happened, but also before anything about it was made public). In which case he's referring to the depression of losing a buddy/coworker again, for the second time in less than a year.

[normasm]

Yep, said that upthread in one or other of these threads about a week ago. I do think he got about as inyourface with TPTB with that post as he dared, and they afterwards told everyone to shut it.

[ReidFan]

then we shoulda known something WAS up, instinctively, since his twitter persona is almost always upbeat and fun. I'll be more perceptive in the future, that's for sure :)

[ForeverAlone]

That morbid depression tweet certainly wasn't the first of its kind on Matthew's feed. There is no way at the time anyone could have connected it with anything amiss on the CM set. Especially since all of the photos we saw from the set at that time were of very happy people. 

[normasm]

1 hour ago, ForeverAlone said:

That morbid depression tweet certainly wasn't the first of its kind on Matthew's feed. There is no way at the time anyone could have connected it with anything amiss on the CM set. Especially since all of the photos we saw from the set at that time were of very happy people. 

Except those who were there on the set, including Matthew. The incident had happened already, and Virgil was already tweeting his passive-aggressive tweets. Looking back (and I posted this on August 11, Matthew had posted about a week before) the writing was on the wall for the next episode and Thomas was officially suspended by that moment. Hence, his fellow cast would be able to see shit was getting serious, and things might not ever be the same. 

Edited August 20, 2016 by normasm

[ForeverAlone]

Yes, looking back in hindsight, Virgil's tweets make sense. My point is, that until the media reports came out about Thomas being suspended, no one in the public suspected anything was off. They all seemed just fine in the episode three pictures and that was during the time Thomas was suspended. Regardless of whether or not they thought he would be fired, getting suspended like that from the set for a physical altercation is still a big deal. 

[normasm]

2 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

They all seemed just fine in the episode three pictures and that was during the time Thomas was suspended. 

Seemed fine, yeah. I think everyone thought it was a major thing, but that TG would be suspended and come back. Very shortly after, they found out (before we did, mind you) that it was more serious than that. At that time, while we were still innocent of any problem, MGG posts about his "morbid depression." This lead me and other to, in retrospect, contribute the depression to the incident and its aftermath. 

[Droogie]

21 minutes ago, normasm said:

Seemed fine, yeah. I think everyone thought it was a major thing, but that TG would be suspended and come back. Very shortly after, they found out (before we did, mind you) that it was more serious than that. At that time, while we were still innocent of any problem, MGG posts about his "morbid depression." This lead me and other to, in retrospect, contribute the depression to the incident and its aftermath. 

I completely agree, Norm.  I think MGG can be a little passive-aggressive sometimes, and I think this was one of those times.  That, and then the pics at that CBS shindig where he looks anything but thrilled to be there in most of the pics.  

I saw on another forum the admin throwing shade bc the cast wasn't tweeting out in support of TG.  But we just don't know what's going on behind the scenes -- and none of this is in any way their fault.  Doesn't mean they're happy with the way things went down, though, and it doesn't mean they're "siding" with Virgil Williams.

[ReidFan]

12 minutes ago, Droogie said:

 

I saw on another forum the admin throwing shade bc the cast wasn't tweeting out in support of TG.  But we just don't know what's going on behind the scenes -- and none of this is in any way their fault.  Doesn't mean they're happy with the way things went down, though, and it doesn't mean they're "siding" with Virgil Williams.

exactly.

what it says to me is 'we've been told to keep our mouths shut and our fingers off the social media keyboards'....at the risk of their own jobs. and/or not wanting to risk sinking the ship for the sake of the *crew* members, with whom they are also friends/colleagues and who may have more to lose if the show gets cancelled than any of the actors would.

We don't even know exactly who wanted him fired. "The producers", "the studio", "the network"...... I've seen Erica Messer personally blamed for it and quite frankly, I doubt she's responsible. She and the writers have plotted out their season since early July. They'd be scrambling madly to rejig stuff now with TG gone and I seriously doubt that this was something she would have wanted.

[zannej]

Yeah, to be honest, I doubt that even Virgil wanted Thomas to be fired. Maybe his passive aggressive boxing tweet was more about Thomas actually being taken to task and told it was not acceptable behavior. Maybe he felt the suspension was deserved and thought it might teach Thomas a lesson. As a writer and producer, having to scrap the scripts and come up with new stuff on such short notice is pretty much nightmare. I don't think he would wish that upon himself or fellow writers. They usually start the writing process months before the filming starts, so something like this can really set them back. Depending on their plans for the season, it may mean they had to scrap their whole season outline (if they had planned that far ahead).

I highly suspect it was ABC big wigs who made the decision and that the people who are on the show didn't have a say in the matter. As much as I don't like how Erica handles things and I don't have a high opinion of her, I don't think she wanted this to happen. It is a PR nightmare and she can't easily bullshit her way out of it as usual. The higher ups are usually the ones who decide when to fire or hire someone. I think now it is all about damage control and trying to save face for the people who remain there.

Whatever happens, I do hope that Virgil and Thomas will make up and be on friendly terms once things blow over.

[smoker]

KV exchanged tweets with VW, when he said that about mistaking kidness and weakness. So she is in his side.

But there is a difference between being happy because TG got a suspension and being happy because he's fired. 

Edited August 21, 2016 by smoker

[Droogie]

4 hours ago, zannej said:

I highly suspect it was ABC big wigs who made the decision and that the people who are on the show didn't have a say in the matter. As much as I don't like how Erica handles things and I don't have a high opinion of her, I don't think she wanted this to happen. It is a PR nightmare and she can't easily bullshit her way out of it as usual. The higher ups are usually the ones who decide when to fire or hire someone. I think now it is all about damage control and trying to save face for the people who remain there.

Whatever happens, I do hope that Virgil and Thomas will make up and be on friendly terms once things blow over.

I agree with you there, that it was probably ABC that ultimately is responsible for firing Thomas.  Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense, IMHO, to announce his suspension and then turn right around and announce his termination.  Perhaps CBS thought it has been handled and was a done deal.

As for Thomas and Virgil kissing and making up someday, I'm not going to hold my breath,. Maybe if the incident in question had resulted only in a suspension, but not now.

Virgil may well have not wanted Thomas fired, but if that is the case, he just reeks of a lack of foresight.  The eyewitness accounts have him yelling, "Did you see that?!" (Sorry; I just don't personally believe it was a purposeful "kick" but rather a reflexive action). If those accounts are true, Virgil definitely didn't think through to a logical conclusion what his vigorous pursuit of some sort of reprisal would be.

[SSAHotchner]

On 8/20/2016 at 1:37 PM, ReidFan said:

is October too early to start my Christmas baking?

It would be in my house. We have a hard enough time not eating everything up before Christmas if I bake early in December. 

On 8/20/2016 at 2:16 PM, normasm said:

Maybe they will promote Andersen to Unit Chief and the whole (remaining) team will be killed because Andersen left them unsupervised at their homes. Then Reid can come back and take over the show, and invite Morgan and Hotch to be his team! Kevin will take over for Garcia, and Gina Sharp will be promoted to Section Chief, turning out to be twice as mean as Original Recipe Strauss.

This I might actually watch. 

[ForeverAlone]

This makes me happy. It looks like Matthew is on tap to direct episode six. So here's hoping he gets two episodes this season like he has in the past. :) 

[Bookish Jen]

17 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

This makes me happy. It looks like Matthew is on tap to direct episode six. So here's hoping he gets two episodes this season like he has in the past. :) 

I'll be counting the minutes until this episode airs. Good for Matthew; he's really grown as a director and I'm thrilled!

Finally, some great news from the CM world. At this point, I think we can use it.

[ForeverAlone]

Here is a recent interview Kirsten did. It's light on specifics and heavy on flowery superlatives, but it's pretty harmless.

http://www.nerdprobs.com/feature/exclusive-interview-criminal-minds-kirsten-vangsness-spills-on-season-12/

[smoker]

Accurate description, it's like she had fused herself with Garcia ?

[SparedTurkey]

Quote

Secondly, and most importantly we have Aisha Tyler now AS A SERIES REGULAR and Paget Brewster is BACK and and and!!! Adam Rodriguez is now on our television program

Does this mean Paget is back back? Full time? Has anyone else heard this? Is this confirmed? Because I will be watching if that is true...just saying.

And I love that if that is true, and with Aisha, there will be more women than men. Like about time (in a general sense). That may make the show different enough to last the firing.

Quote

She has a crush on Tara, that’s just obvious to me but they work too close together….

I love that. I remember when Prentiss was going to be gay until the studio got involved...I guess Garcia is more of a palatable possible lesbian but I'll be happy with that.

[Droogie]

1 hour ago, SparedTurkey said:

 That may make the show different enough to last the firing.

That may make the show different enough to warrant a new title because it will no longer be "Criminal Minds." I won't watch, even for Reid.  I'll just have to make do with stills and .gifs on Instagram.

[Old Dog]

I agree with Droogie. It hasn't really been Criminal Minds for some time now. The "Girl Squad" holds no appeal for me at all - they will need to call it something else. "Action Girls in Kevlar". "Girls with Guns". "3 Action Women and The Black Queen". IDK.

Not for me.

[ReidFan]

Non animated power puff Grrrls.  No thanks.  It's so NOT representative of the actualBAU ferpetessakes.   

[Old Dog]

I wonder if they are over estimating Paget Brewster's fanbase if they are bringing her back to helm the team? I know she has a very vocal band of fans but I wonder if she will be enough to keep the Power Puff Girls Show going. I liked Prentiss very much as a character up until the ridiculous spy arc - after that I thought PB's performance in Season 7 before she left was distinctly lacklustre and the two episodes since where she has returned have been simply awful.

[JMO]

She lost me at "we have imaginative, smart writers".  

That's a 'show us', KV, not a 'tell us'.  The quality of the writing will be judged by the consumer.

[Danielg342]

It's a little early to call this "Power Puff Girls: Live Action". Tara has been pretty cerebral when we have seen her and she has yet to launch any leg kicks. Plus, she has actually shown vulnerability.

It's more than I can say about JJ (although I think she too improved in S11).

[Willowy]

I'll be fine if Prentiss leads the team. It actually would be the only real way it would make sense if she's back full time (to give her that promotion). She's not going to return from running Interpol to just be an agent. Unit Chief would be fitting. 

They'd better not try to put JJ as Unit Chief. Good grief no.

I'm also missing Derek Morgan a lot more than I thought I would. I don't think he should return full time, but it will be nice if he drops by once in a while. 

Rossi needs a desk job. I love him but come on. 

Picturing the BAU without Hotch just breaks my heart. 

[normasm]

As long as Reid is still the genius, I'm OK with the team being more estrogen than testosterone. If I had confidence in the writing, I'd actually be looking forward to it. However, if MGG is still marginalized and underutilized, I will be horrified and disappointed. If they, indeed do go all ninja Barbie team, same thing.

I'm still willing to give it a chance, and hope I'm pleasantly surprised, because Reid is still there.

[Kara101]

4 hours ago, SparedTurkey said:

Does this mean Paget is back back? Full time? Has anyone else heard this? Is this confirmed? Because I will be watching if that is true...just saying.

And I love that if that is true, and with Aisha, there will be more women than men. Like about time (in a general sense). That may make the show different enough to last the firing.

I love that. I remember when Prentiss was going to be gay until the studio got involved...I guess Garcia is more of a palatable possible lesbian but I'll be happy with that.

 

4 hours ago, SparedTurkey said:

Does this mean Paget is back back? Full time? Has anyone else heard this? Is this confirmed? Because I will be watching if that is true...just saying.

And I love that if that is true, and with Aisha, there will be more women than men. Like about time (in a general sense). That may make the show different enough to last the firing.

I love that. I remember when Prentiss was going to be gay until the studio got involved...I guess Garcia is more of a palatable possible lesbian but I'll be happy with that.

Is it confirmed that Prentiss was originally going to be gay or is it speculation? That is very interesting. 

[MrWhyt]

2 hours ago, ReidFan said:

Non animated power puff Grrrls.  No thanks.  It's so NOT representative of the actualBAU ferpetessakes.   

it's a work of fiction, not a documentary.

[Willowy]

For those wondering if Paget will stay for good, there is this small hint:

 

[Danielg342]

100%  "yes" to the idea. Hopefully this means Emily will get her bite back...and get in a few zingers with Rossi.

[Droogie]

3 hours ago, normasm said:

As long as Reid is still the genius, I'm OK with the team being more estrogen than testosterone. If I had confidence in the writing, I'd actually be looking forward to it. However, if MGG is still marginalized and underutilized, I will be horrified and disappointed. If they, indeed do go all ninja Barbie team, same thing.

I'm still willing to give it a chance, and hope I'm pleasantly surprised, because Reid is still there.

Reid is the only thing that would cause me to tune in now (heck, he is the only real reason I've watched since about S6). If he is wallflowered in favor of the newbies, male or female, it will be the final nail in the coffin.  I don't mind if a female (except it would have to be Prentiss) becomes Unit Chief, or if the women outnumber the men...  But I seriously struggle with the idea of a team of Ninja Barbie assassins + Shiny New Guy crime fighting while the Nerd and the grizzled old Italian fill in the background and provide comic relief.  That's my fear.  Plus I am gonna seriously miss Hotch.  I just don't know if the new ensemble can bring it.  I've watched CM for 11 years.  Although it has certainly declined in quality over the past five seasons, I sorta feel like its just suddenly gone.

[Willowy]

I say we give it a chance. Could be awful, or could be great. I'm actually looking forward to seeing what they do. You just know they have to be freaking out at recent developments. Whether that will stymie- or inspire- creatvity remains to be seen.

[Lebanna]

6 hours ago, Old Dog said:

I agree with Droogie. It hasn't really been Criminal Minds for some time now. The "Girl Squad" holds no appeal for me at all - they will need to call it something else. "Action Girls in Kevlar". "Girls with Guns". "3 Action Women and The Black Queen". IDK.

Not for me.

I'm afraid I really can't agree with this sentiment Dog. The show started out with three women, but I don't remember anywhere anyone saying that on Criminal Minds only the 'Action Men' are allowed to kick ass and take names. That was never really the bargain. It's true that the show has become more action based and less cerebral, but that's a problem, or not, for all the characters, not just the women. And yes, I haven't really liked the change at all, but it's never been a female issue for me. All the characters now kick more ass that is probably proper for their supposed job.

I'd also say that none of these women are really 'girls' as such. I mean, I understand not enjoying too much focus on only the women at the expense of the men, but I don't think at their age and with their characters' backgrounds, we can really think of them as girls. I will say that when people call me 'girl' as an adult women with a career, I do find it a bit impolite.

And is Tara what you refer to in being the 'Black Queen'? Or am I off base? Is it Prentiss? I mean they're both pretty regal and dignified and I like the characters a lot. But,  I'm not quite understanding what you are getting at?

[Willowy]

I think her reference to The Black Queen was Garcia? After Breen's Penelope origin story of the same name.

[Old Dog]

The Black Queen is Garcia - from that terrible episode that retconned her past and how she joined the FBI. And it's not that it's because the focus has switched onto the women in the team for me - it's what they have done to the women in changing their characters. I used to love JJ and Garcia in the early days - they pretty much ruined JJ for me in the "Season of JJ" and Garcia has become almost a comic book character. Tara was OK last season although she was dropped in to the team with very little shown of her and the team adapting to each other. I kind of lost Prentiss from the moment we had the ridiculous spy arc so she has some ground to make up for me.

Sorry - I have always referred to other women as girls even when I managed a large justice centre. Maybe it's a British thing but no-one minded. I was still one of the girls in my 50's. But I never was terribly politically correct so apologise if I have offended anyone by referring to the females in CM as girls. I often refer to the men as "guys" which I guess could be thought of as equally impolite?

And technically the show started off with 2 women - JJ wasn't in the pilot and Garcia was only a minor recurring character. Gosh I miss that strong and sparky Garcia - what a caricature they have made of her. Such a shame.

But yes, the show has been turned into a more action based show and I miss the clever writing and the profiling. I'm just not sure I want to watch Reid continue to be sidelined and lots of the women running around with guns in dark lots. Believe me I have been trying to be positive about CM for years now but I'm struggling this season.

[ForeverAlone]

Hmmm...stay tuned. No specific details yet.

http://tvline.com/2016/08/25/criminal-minds-season-12-cast-new-characters-thomas-gibson-fired/
 

[JMO]

The several recent tweets and interviews touting 'girl power' are, to me, very telling.  They represent the first time CM has overtly chosen to (? had to) promote its demographic makeup over its premise and/or its quality.  It's been done for an episode, here and there, but never for a full season.

They say you should always lead with your strengths, but I'm concerned if those who promote the show think their biggest strength is in the demographics of the cast.  This isn't me saying what I think, as a fan. This is me noticing what the people on and behind the show seem to think. As with any other of my, or anyone else's, suppositions, it will play out, or not.

That noted, I will still watch, hoping that the change in casting has somehow infused the writing staff with inspiration.  But I will still be fast forwarding as usual.  If I see Reid something interesting on my screen, I'll watch that scene.  If there are enough interesting scenes, I'll go back and watch the whole thing.  

[ReidFan]

21 minutes ago, JMO said:

 If I see Reid something interesting on my screen, I'll watch that scene.  If there are enough interesting scenes, I'll go back and watch the whole thing.  

lol

this is me!

[smoker]

I was posting when the site went offline and it seems it's lost :(

nothing important but it takes me soooo looong make a transltion xP

Edited August 25, 2016 by smoker

[Lebanna]

2 hours ago, Franky said:

I think her reference to The Black Queen was Garcia? After Breen's Penelope origin story of the same name.

I had blocked that episode out of my mind! It was horrible and it didn't even make sense, based on what we already knew about Garcia.

Now I'm going to have to spend years forgetting it again. :(

Edited August 25, 2016 by Lebanna

[Droogie]

2 hours ago, Old Dog said:

And technically the show started off with 2 women - JJ wasn't in the pilot and Garcia was only a minor recurring character.

...which makes Reid the only original recipe character remaining on the show.  One would think that would afford him a modicum of respect from the writers and a decent character arc after all this time...

[Danielg342]

OK so...

• Reid
• Tara
• JJ
• Rossi
• Garcia
• Delko (still refusing to accept his name)
• New person
• New person

That makes eight cast members, more than we've ever had before. Why can't we just work with what we have and leave it at that?

[ForeverAlone]

Maybe my fantasy is coming true and Rossi is retiring. :) :) :) :)

Otherwise, I have no clue why they would bring in two characters. I can see one character to replace Hotch if they decided not to promote in house. Otherwise it doesn't make much sense. But we'll see. Nothing official has been announced yet, so we have no clue what is really going to happen. 

[Willowy]

Still thinking Paget may be one of the 'new' cast members. Hoping.

[ForeverAlone]

Oh yeah, with all the rumblings I've heard at this point, I'd be more surprised if Paget WASN'T one of the persons hired. 

[smoker]

That makes sense if she doesn't have another project, it's a win win for her and the show; and then someone new new for you know...

I hope she brings all the good luck of her late show xD

Edited August 25, 2016 by smoker

[ReidFan]

1 hour ago, Droogie said:

...which makes Reid the only original recipe character remaining on the show.  One would think that would afford him a modicum of respect from the writers and a decent character arc after all this time...

really.

I ain't holdin' my breath waiting for it to happen though.

[Droogie]

24 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

really.

I ain't holdin' my breath waiting for it to happen though.

Neither am I!  But it's completely offensive and downright disgusting that fans should have to literally beg for it at this late date.  

I cannot imagine the show being renewed for a 13th season.  And if it is, contracts seem to be one year with a one year option.  MGG, Eagle Scout that he is, promised he would stay until they didn't want him anymore.  I cannot stand the thought of him with this albatross around his neck one second longer than necessary.  It just can't end soon enough for me.