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Season 12 Spoilers, Speculation and Anticipation

Danielg342

By Danielg342
in Criminal Minds

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WendyCR72
WendyCR72

If this was Gibson's first rodeo in terms of physical violence, I'd say this reaction is an overreaction. However, it isn't. So he got more chances with even having the first instance be all "bygones"

Princess Lucky
Princess Lucky

Actually, close your eyes and replay the situation like so: What if this producer had kicked TG? What if TG had kicked MGG? What if TG had kicked Erica Messer? What if Erica Messer

Princess Lucky
Princess Lucky

But this is the second instance of violence from TG. He "shoved" another person years ago, and that was swept under the rug (obviously, since we're just now finding out about it). Who was that other p

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Willowy

Willowy

Hmm. Does anyone know if Thomas's contract is up this year? And surprised the CMRT is jumping the gun before anything is even announced. So what if Thomas doesn't get fired (which I think is likely), will they reopen? Seems like kind of a knee-jerk thing to do for such a (historically) dependable blog.

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Old Dog

Old Dog

I think most of the cast are up for contract renewal this year. I was surprised by CMRT closing - unless they think it will make a noise about the level of TG's popularity as some of the CM production read it.

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Danielg342

Danielg342

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Can't support the CMRT decision. It's one thing if Gibson was being terminated for an unjust reason, but it's a whole different thing when it's about a repeated history of hot-headedness and (let's face it) outright abuse.

Yeah, it will suck to see Gibson go. I like him as an actor. However, I will not make apologies for his behaviour.

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Princess Lucky

Princess Lucky

I have to say, save for Prentiss, Hotch is my favorite character. I, however, separate him entirely from TG. Which is easy to do, considering TG's behaviour (Hotch would never!).

But I do think the show is enough of an ensemble to go on without him (much like when Mandy Patinkin left, or Prentiss herself), plus Hotch has had less and less screentime with each season. I think the void he will leave (if TG is fired) will be felt on an emotional level, by us and by the characters. Hotch has meant a lot to these people and to a lot of fans. A father figure, a brother, a good friend, a good boss, a decent and dignified character. But practically, I actually don't think the show will be affected that much. Not on an episode-by-episode basis. Hotch is barely there most of the time as it is.  And the show's ratings should hold, even without him (and by "hold" I mean decrease at the same rate as before).

If I was a producer, and TG really was causing problems for his colleagues, I wouldn't hesitate to write him off. Procedurals have often lost leads/co-leads with little effect. Viewers keep watching, for some reason.

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JMO

JMO

Looks like Virgil is trying to rub salt into the wound now, which is so very little of him, but definitely in keeping with the pettiness he's shown on twitter in the past.  He appears to be clueless about the distress the whole incident has caused the fans.  I can only imagine what it's been like on set.  He seems to want to feel righteous, and vindicated, rather than acknowledging the sadness this has caused, all around, even if he doesn't feel he shares the blame.  

Thomas did the wrong thing, and he's acknowledged it.  It may be too late to save his role on the show, and that has to be his own responsibility.  If he does leave, I hope he will take it upon himself to apologize to the fans.  I hope he acknowledges the people who have paid his salary for the past eleven years, in a way that Virgil seems disinclined to do. 

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amensisterfriend

amensisterfriend

I really like Hotch and want to love Thomas Gibson, but suffice it to say that TG has often not exactly shown the best judgment. This definitely isn't the first example of it. I can't imagine most of our workplaces tolerating something like this on any level, but then most of us probably aren't the stars of long-running TV shows :)  

But you guys have totally identified the potential silver lining here: What if this somehow spurs the powers to realize that for various reasons the show is on its last legs and that they should set a definite end date? That might---MIGHT---make for more focused, thoughtful episodes and less of the repetitive, pointless meandering that's marred much of the past few seasons. 

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Droogie

Droogie

At the risk of my head popping off, I have to ask:  What's Virgil saying now?  I looked on Twitter and saw a bunch of folks saying he had blocked them (big surprise there) but no inkling of what he's been Tweeting the last 24h. 

I'm thoroughly bummed that the show is gonna go out like this.  Whether TG stays or goes (and I think he will be forced to fulfill his contract), the writing is on the wall now.  This will surely be the last season.  I wonder if the cast and the rest of the crew are angry at Thomas and/or Virgil?  These are most likely folks with families and lifestyles to support.  Gosh, I can't imagine how tense the atmosphere is around there now.

(Incidentally, two nurses at the first hospital at which I was employed got into a fist fight in a patient's room.  Neither of them was fired.  This was typical of that facility's lack of standards, though, and I don't work there anymore.)

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Droogie

Droogie

14 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

I'm guessing we won't see a Hotch character story arc......

and :-( no follow up on Mr Scratch now

They could use it to write out the character of Hotch.  ???

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JMO

JMO

Droogie:

Virgil WilliamsVerified account ‏@VirgilWilliams  53m53 minutes ago

Three things cannot be long hidden: The sun, the moon and the TRUTH. -Buddha

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Droogie

Droogie

11 minutes ago, Old Dog said:

I don't condone violence in any form but my goodness, Virgil William's smarmy self-righteous tweets just give me the urge to kick him somewhere more painful than his leg!

Right?!  Just shut the hell up already, for crying out loud.  

2 hours ago, Old Dog said:

I think most of the cast are up for contract renewal this year. I was surprised by CMRT closing - unless they think it will make a noise about the level of TG's popularity as some of the CM production read it.

I think they have an inflated idea about their importance.

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Danielg342

Danielg342

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(edited)

I think we'll get a S13. CBS will want to see if they can have a show without Gibson and they'll actually have to have a show without Gibson to evaluate that.

Edited by Danielg342
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ReidFan

ReidFan

4 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I think we'll get a S13. CBS will want to see if they can have a show without Gibson and they'll actually have to have a show without Gibson to evaluate that.

I hope you're right! As much as TG has been the face of the show since inception, he really has been, as someone else pointed out, pretty much 'in the background' for years now. I get that the diehard TG/Hotch fans will miss him, and some may abandon the show.

But they could use Rossi. Depending on if/how Hotch is dispensed with, they could put Rossi back in charge. Or, (and I like this idea better, assuming PB would be amenable to it), bring Prentiss back as the new boss. Erica Messer and her thing for girl power should love this.

AND, maybe, just maybe, they'd see what a gem they have in MGG after all, and actually give him something to do.

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normasm

normasm

1 hour ago, JMO said:

Looks like Virgil is trying to rub salt into the wound now, which is so very little of him, but definitely in keeping with the pettiness he's shown on twitter in the past.  He appears to be clueless about the distress the whole incident has caused the fans.  I can only imagine what it's been like on set.  He seems to want to feel righteous, and vindicated, rather than acknowledging the sadness this has caused, all around, even if he doesn't feel he shares the blame.  

Thomas did the wrong thing, and he's acknowledged it.  It may be too late to save his role on the show, and that has to be his own responsibility.  If he does leave, I hope he will take it upon himself to apologize to the fans.  I hope he acknowledges the people who have paid his salary for the past eleven years, in a way that Virgil seems disinclined to do. 

Well said, JMO. While I do feel that Thomas has made his own bed, I can't help but hope that this self-serving, self-righteous slander campaign Virgil is engaging in will turn into self-sabotage. If he's going to keep pushing for TG to lose this show, he may be praying for his own loss of a job. And I hope future employers are watching the childish way he's behaving. Lots of enterprises will walk the other way rather than work with someone who's proven himself thin-skinned and defensive of his mediocre talent.  

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Lebanna

Lebanna

If anyone feels more angry with the producer than Gibson right now, I get it. It hurts. This is a massive letdown. I'm so disappointed. But for me, sadly, it's Gibson alone who has sunk his career and possibly our show. If it's gone after this season, it will be his fault. What a complete and utter idiot. ?

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Princess Lucky

Princess Lucky

Wow.

I agree that the producer is being unnecessarily gleeful, but I wonder, especially since TG just got fired, if he feels this has been a long time coming. If TG has been causing problems for a while (shoving(!) another person? With no consequences at the time?), I can imagine this must feel like vindication. The tweets posted above are insensitive toward the fans who are losing a character they love, but I can understand the utter joy of finally being rid of a difficult colleague (from personal experience).

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ReidFan

ReidFan

(edited)

wow... although I don't particularly like it, I can totally understand why TPTB felt they had to do this, workplace safety and a good environment for all, and all that. And I still think the other party should be held to account too, if what TG's source said is true.

They must be busy writing their asses off right now, having to rejig stuff. I hope they send Hotch off on some secret mission or something, rather than killing him off or anything drastic like that. And the TG/Hotch fans may leave, but I don't think they number as high as the Shemar fans do, and the show survived his loss.

Hey, this makes Matthew the longest serving member now, the most episodes :) . Hope that doesn't go unnoticed by TPTB.

 

and they'll have to redo the cast photo they JUST did..... :-\  (and I also hope they don't let VW write the writing out of Hotch, either. That would just be all kinds of wrong)

Edited by ReidFan
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JMO

JMO

Oh, my.  If TG has more issues than we know, and this is necessary for him to get his life in order, then so be it. If he's been unpleasant on set in ways that we don't know, then maybe the rest of the cast will react in a way that we don't expect.  But nothing has ever pointed in that direction.  He and MGG have usually been the two said to be the most fun on set.

I feel bad for him, and hope he's able to turn things around from here.  I feel bad for his kids, who are probably suffering through this as well.  And I feel terrible for the other cast members.  It must feel like someone died.  Here's a job they've all said they've loved, tainted now, in what is no doubt its final season.  How sad, for everyone involved.  

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Lebanna

Lebanna

(edited)

Basically, if this were the first time something had happened, then I'd honestly feel slightly bad for him because stupid mistakes happen. He'd deserve the punishment, but it would be a pity. But it's hard to buy the 'lashed out instinctively' line when he's known to have shoved people before and been sent for treatment, and there are rumors of him being held back from doing it again on other occasions. I do hope that instead of just getting angry, he embraces this as a chance to sort out whatever issue he has. More treatment will probably be a must if he wants to work in Hollywood again, anyway.

How to write him out, though? Logically, he'll have to be killed off screen, go missing forever, be sent abroad or into Witsec. The character has a son, so he can't just go deep undercover with no contact with anyone for the rest of the show (supposing they still want it to continue, in principle, after this year). Personally, sad as it is, he's never coming back, so killing him off makes sense. It'll be sad for the young actor who had a semi-regular gig as Jack, though.

I don't think this has to be the end of the show. I think a massive re-jig could shake it up enough. And I love the idea of them somehow putting Emily or Reid in charge. I would pay good money to watch that.

Edited by Lebanna
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normasm

normasm

I know Thomas is responsible for crossing a line he shouldn't, but I believe mr. Williams ought to be suspended for the rest of the season because of his behavior. This is terrible.

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smoker

smoker

(edited)

They made Mandy film a couple of episodes and GE had to finish the season. Sure GE wanted out just like Paget but...I dont know. And I dont care. I only watched the show for Hotch and the character deserves a good end. I hope Messer gives him a proper farewell

Edited by smoker
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Lebanna

Lebanna

No, I'm very much hoping it's a nicer end for him. I don't want Hotch to die. I didn't even want Gideon to die. But this show is about murder and the Mr. Scratch story is still hanging there... 

But actually, thinking about it:

I'd prefer that Mr. Scratch and/or his accomplices start to remind Hotch too much of Foyet, maybe he comes after Hotch, he and Jack end up in Witsec for their own safety, living in some delightful little town. The news coming back to the team is that Hotch has settled in nicely and Jack's loving the chance to spend so much time with his dad. They catch or kill Mr. Scratch and they are all excited that Hotch will be coming back now, when a letter arrives informing them that in the intervening months Hotch has met a wonderful woman where he's been living, they're running a business, she's adopting Jack and they're starting a family together. He's found the meaning of life somewhere else. Maybe a little callback to that line from Gideon's note about believing in Happy Endings. And that's it.

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anna0852

anna0852

I think Lebanna nailed it. Getting someone who wants to leave to properly wrap it up is one thing. Firing is something else. It's going to have to be an offscreen departure and I'm just hoping they don't kill him.

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JMO

JMO

“I love Criminal Minds and have put my heart and soul into it for the last 12 years,” Gibson said in a statement to THR on Friday. “I had hoped to see it through to the end, but that won’t be possible now. I would just like to say thank you to the writers, producers, actors, our amazing crew, and, most importantly, the best fans that a show could ever hope to have.”

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Mislav

Mislav

4 minutes ago, JMO said:

“I love Criminal Minds and have put my heart and soul into it for the last 12 years,” Gibson said in a statement to THR on Friday. “I had hoped to see it through to the end, but that won’t be possible now. I would just like to say thank you to the writers, producers, actors, our amazing crew, and, most importantly, the best fans that a show could ever hope to have.”

Heartbreaking :(

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ReidFan

ReidFan

Dear CM producers: Please at least write an exit episode for the Aaron Hotchner character. It'd be really nice if you could address the Mr Scratch thing, send Aaron and Jack off together somewhere,  have Erica and Kirsten write the episode, have Matthew direct it and please, do not have Virgil Williams anywhere near the set for its duration.

thanks

 a fan

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Droogie

Droogie

I feel so conflicted.  I watch the show only for Reid but Hotch is my #2 fave. To continue watching (for me) feels somehow disloyal.  But I think it will be so weird.

And then I find myself hoping Reid will be onscreen more now, and that makes me feel terrible -- plus I highly doubt MGG wants to somehow "benefit" from the firing of TG.

I wish they'd just end it now.  It has gone from being a wildly successful long-running show to that show where the star was fired 12 seasons in.

Can you imagine interviewing Thomas Gibson in the future, ever?  Because you would have to address it.  Big giant fat pink tutu-wearing elephant in the room wherever he goes in the future.  

Bet Virgil has blocked half of Twitter by now.

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JMO

JMO

1 minute ago, Droogie said:

I feel so conflicted.  I watch the show only for Reid but Hotch is my #2 fave. To continue watching (for me) feels somehow disloyal.  But I think it will be so weird.

And then I find myself hoping Reid will be onscreen more now, and that makes me feel terrible -- plus I highly doubt MGG wants to somehow "benefit" from the firing of TG.

I wish they'd just end it now.  It has gone from being a wildly successful long-running show to that show where the star was fired 12 seasons in.

Can you imagine interviewing Thomas Gibson in the future, ever?  Because you would have to address it.  Big giant fat pink tutu-wearing elephant in the room wherever he goes in the future.  

Bet Virgil has blocked half of Twitter by now.

I'm in the same boat, Droogie.   Reid #1, Hotch #2, and, sadly, the Reid/Hotch dynamic #3.  I'm going to miss that more than I will miss Hotch alone.  I can't imagine what they're going to do to Reid about this---but I will be seriously perturbed if a certain writer gets to attempt it.  If Reid was supposed to be mourning the loss of Morgan, just imagine what it will do to him to lose Hotch as well, and only a year after losing Gideon.  

Well, maybe we'll try to imagine it.  As things have gone in recent years, our on-screen Reid might not even notice.

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Old Dog

Old Dog

I feel like Droogie. I fear that now the show will be going further in a direction I do not like. I think I will only watch the Reid scenes when they get posted on social media. I have zero confidence that Reid will come out of this with more of a presence - it will be all about the girls and the new guy and I couldn't care less about them .I am not invested any more in any of the other characters.

This certainly explains why Matthew was so subdued at the party the other night and I do wonder why the other cast seemed to be having an absolute ball?

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ReidFan

ReidFan

11 minutes ago, Droogie said:

I feel so conflicted.  I watch the show only for Reid but Hotch is my #2 fave. To continue watching (for me) feels somehow disloyal.  But I think it will be so weird.

And then I find myself hoping Reid will be onscreen more now, and that makes me feel terrible -- plus I highly doubt MGG wants to somehow "benefit" from the firing of TG.

I wish they'd just end it now.  It has gone from being a wildly successful long-running show to that show where the star was fired 12 seasons in.

Can you imagine interviewing Thomas Gibson in the future, ever?  Because you would have to address it.  Big giant fat pink tutu-wearing elephant in the room wherever he goes in the future.  

Bet Virgil has blocked half of Twitter by now.

hafta admit, that last line made me LOL

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MMC

MMC

(edited)

I think everyone should get on social media and call for a boycutt of all of Virgil episodes this season starting with episode 2. I know that some would advocate boycutting CM all together put I really feel that this S.O.B needs to be singled out specifically.

Edited by MMC
spelling correction
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Droogie

Droogie

(edited)
7 minutes ago, MMC said:

I think everyone should get on social media and call for a boycutt of all of Virgil episodes this season staring with episode 2. I know that some would advocate boycutting CM all together put I really feel that this S.O.B needs to be singled out specifically.

Virgil has been riding a gravy train with biscuit wheels re CM.  Maybe he will come out of this with his job still intact, but he needs to hope the show doesn't end any time soon.  Because I imagine his reputation will be preceding him everywhere he goes, and the next gig might be hard to come by.

I Sort of think (based upon no actual knowledge) that CBS didn't wanna fire Thomas but perhaps felt they were over a barrel.  Maybe they even said back in 2010 when he pushed Ian Whateverhisnameis that he was getting "one more chance."  And then Virgil is bleating for his pound of flesh and so the head honchos had no choice.

Gosh I hate this.

Edited by Droogie
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normasm

normasm

47 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

Dear CM producers: Please at least write an exit episode for the Aaron Hotchner character. It'd be really nice if you could address the Mr Scratch thing, send Aaron and Jack off together somewhere,  have Erica and Kirsten write the episode, have Matthew direct it and please, do not have Virgil Williams anywhere near the set for its duration.

thanks

 a fan

I totally agree. Please tweet this where it might do some good, Riff!

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normasm

normasm

If Virgil isn't at least suspended for the rest of the season, I hope they take out his second (and third, if there is one) writing assignment/episode for this season. 

Maybe he should go away and they get Sharon to come back. 

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