The Mary Tyler Moore Show - General Discussion

[hiisa]

I've been binge watching the series and I'm currently in season 3. I super don't like how MTM is styled this season. The hair, the clothes all of it is tragic. 

But I'm watching the ep where Ted wants a raise and starts doing commericals. Lou tells him to knock it off or he'll punch his face off. Ted looks at him and eventually says Lou can't punch his face off. He'll call the cops. "It'll be too late. Your face will ready be gone."

I don't think I've ever laughed so hard. 

[chessiegal]

1 minute ago, hiisa said:

The hair, the clothes all of it is tragic. 

Oh, I'm the opposite. I didn't like Mary's long flip do in the early seasons. I liked the shorter hair much better. I thought all her wardrobes were good. MTM had such a great figure, she could wear anything.

[hiisa]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:56 PM, chessiegal said:

Oh, I'm the opposite. I didn't like Mary's long flip do in the early seasons. I liked the shorter hair much better. I thought all her wardrobes were good. MTM had such a great figure, she could wear anything.

It's not the hairdos themselves --I like that they do more with her hair this season. It's the color. This light brown color does not look good on her at all, imo. And now that I'm in the latter half of the season I don't know if her outfits grew on me or if they started dressing her better but I've seen several great outfits in this back half. Rhoda on the other hand! She's spent half the season in jeans, a sweatshirt, and pigtails! It's a testament to how gorgeous Valerie was that she still lookedassively cute. 

I just finished the ep where Murray has the big sads because a former college classmate is getting a Pulitzer and he just works at WJM and were told that Murray is 40. 40!! Now, I've never used this phrase before I've only heard Chuck say it on Gossip Girl and Logan say it on Veronica Mars but, here we go: Road hard and put away wet. Except I don't think anyone road anything anywhere.

Oh and side note. I'm watching ep 3.22 and I never notice things like makeup but Mary's looks a bit crazy. It looks like big white circles surrounding her eyes. 

[ljenkins782]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:56 PM, chessiegal said:

Oh, I'm the opposite. I didn't like Mary's long flip do in the early seasons. I liked the shorter hair much better. I thought all her wardrobes were good. MTM had such a great figure, she could wear anything.

I thought she looked young and cute with the long flip. Some of her later hairstyles were very aging, it looked she went from her late 20s to late 40s without anything in between when she went to the short 'do. 

Her wardrobe also got hit with the late 70s stick in...well, the late 70s, and it was just an aesthetically unfortunate time. The earlier seasons definitely had better colors, but someone in the late 70s decided that orange/mustard yellow/brown were the height of fashion and all the clothes took a turn, IMO.

Quote

I just finished the ep where Murray has the big sads because a former college classmate is getting a Pulitzer and he just works at WJM and were told that Murray is 40. 40!! Now, I've never used this phrase before I've only heard Chuck say it on Gossip Girl and Logan say it on Veronica Mars but, here we go: Road hard and put away wet. Except I don't think anyone road anything anywhere.

Kind of unbelievable that the actor who played Murray only passed away last year at 90 years old. This show seems so long ago and he did look rather aged even then, as did Ed Asner, but both were alive until last year. In Ed Asner's case, he was still acting right up the end. This show definitely had its share of actors with great longevity and vitality, between Ed, Gavin, Cloris, and of course, Betty White. 

P.S. it's "rode hard and put away wet" :) 

[chessiegal]

21 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

I thought she looked young and cute with the long flip.

The long flip was how I wore my hair in high school. By the time I got to Mary's age, I had moved on. I think that's why I didn't like it.

[hiisa]

4 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

P.S. it's "rode hard and put away wet" :) 

Thanks! I used to know how to spell. I used to know things. I don't anymore. Ah well. 

I officially have a least favorite episode! Episode 4.20

Mary quits the newsroom. Now, when I was in high school and college I was on the newspaper staff. Maybe because we were all kids we had long conversations about how you don't do what Mary did (place holder captions/eulogy). Lou told her why she had to be punished (which honestly, you would think with who their anchorman was it's shocking it hadn't happened sooner, or come.up before) and she accepted what he said. Murray did his job and got the eulogy from Mary's desk. Ted did his job and read what was given him. Mary is the one who messed up and humiliated the family.ofnthe dead guy and the station. She deserved that suspension or even to be fired. Lou even said if it was anyone other than her he would have fired them and she comes and says that she'll either be fired or have no consequences at all? No, ma'am. She didn't deserve to get rehired (and her replacement didn't deserve the shunting) just because she burst into tears. She always bursts into tears. She should have been suspended a 2nd time or something!

[Sue Anne]

17 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I thought she looked young and cute with the long flip. Some of her later hairstyles were very aging, it looked she went from her late 20s to late 40s without anything in between when she went to the short 'do. 

Her wardrobe also got hit with the late 70s stick in...well, the late 70s, and it was just an aesthetically unfortunate time. The earlier seasons definitely had better colors, but someone in the late 70s decided that orange/mustard yellow/brown were the height of fashion and all the clothes took a turn, IMO.

Kind of unbelievable that the actor who played Murray only passed away last year at 90 years old. This show seems so long ago and he did look rather aged even then, as did Ed Asner, but both were alive until last year. In Ed Asner's case, he was still acting right up the end. This show definitely had its share of actors with great longevity and vitality, between Ed, Gavin, Cloris, and of course, Betty White. 

P.S. it's "rode hard and put away wet" :) 

I agree regarding Mary's hair.  I think they put her in the long hair to make her look different from her Laura Petrie character on the DVD show.  And I think it really worked. I am a fan of both shows but the characters of Laura and Mary seem so different to me. While Laura Petrie seemed poised and confident as a housewife and mother, Mary Richards (in season 1) seemed more awkward and unsure and "younger" in a way.  I don't mean "awkward" in a clumsy way- more of a lanky  way where she doesn't know what to do with her hands and kind of slumps over.  Mary Richards seems taller- I guess DVD was so tall that Laura seemed petite by comparison.   Mostly It really shows what a great actress MTM was- Her two characters seem like completely different people to me.  

[Milburn Stone]

21 hours ago, Sue Anne said:

Mostly It really shows what a great actress MTM was- Her two characters seem like completely different people to me.  

Great point.

Of course we know about her excellent dramatic performance in Ordinary People. But in an alternate universe, it would have been great to see her get some sort of continuing TV drama in the 80s/90s, where she played a detective, or a lawyer, or a doctor, or something like that. Maybe a drama with touches of humor, like a Lou Grant or something. Her comedy-variety work after MTM was doomed because no new show in a such a light genre could hope to compare, but an episodic hour-long drama--yeah, that should have happened.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[JAYJAY1979]

I know MTM had two attempts at a drama in the late 80s and mid 90s.. neither of which lasted very long.  

I kind of liked her longer hair style in the first 2 seasons, but I understood that in order for the character to evolve/get taken seriously.. she needed to ditch the longer flip hair style for the more chic hair style of season 3 and thereafter.

Her wardrobe in season 1 was more trendy/youthful.... not at all like the timeless styles she ended up wearing in later seasons.  But we have to remember that she just ended an engagement and was venturing out into the real world single at 30.

Rhoda had the funkiest style that became more Mary like when she had her spinoff sadly.

Phyllis... I'm probably the only one that liked her hair longer and kept up in pony tail vs her shorter hair style on her spin off.

[chessiegal]

Just watched the show where Murray wants another baby so he can have a son. I'm happy they addressed the issue of a woman's right to decide, but what bugs me, they never say - so what if the next baby is a girl? Is he just going to have her keep having babies until she has a boy? 

[chessiegal]

I was watching an episode of Nichols today that had an actor playing an Iroqois Indian that I knew from somewhere else but couldn't remember where.  Turns out it was Michael Tolan who was love interest Dan in 3 episodes.

[JAYJAY1979]

Mary Tyler Moore lost something special in season 6 and 7.   I think that idealistic optimism that really made the early seasons pop was gone.

1) Focusing on the workplace with little emphasis on Mary's home life threw off the balance.  Before, the viewers had a bit of break from the sitcom tropes of Sue Ann, Ted, Murray, and Georgette with a focus on Rhoda and Phyllis without the other characters.   

    After losing Rhoda and Phyllis and being unable to film at the location of her apartment.. the show moved Mary Richards into that high rise.  Her apartment was soul less and corporate without any of the personality of her original apartment.  

    I remember Penny Marshall and Mary Kay Place guest starred in season 6.. in an attempt to recreate the home life environment that MTM had with Rhoda and Phyllis in season 1 through 5.  For whatever reason, neither character really took off.

2)  Mary became less warm and idealistic.. and became more sad and uptight in later seasons.  

     I do think it made sense she would lose that wide eyed optimism as she embraced the capitalistic lifestyle in Minneapolis.  That was helped due to her becoming more established at the news station and moved into an 'adult' apartment. With Rhoda and Phyllis no longer in the picture, Mary lost that work/life balance that she had.. and that contributed to the change in her character and attitude.

 

Just some random thoughts I had on a Saturday :) 

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Mary Tyler Moore lost something special in season 6 and 7.   I think that idealistic optimism that really made the early seasons pop was gone.

1) Focusing on the workplace with little emphasis on Mary's home life threw off the balance.  Before, the viewers had a bit of break from the sitcom tropes of Sue Ann, Ted, Murray, and Georgette with a focus on Rhoda and Phyllis without the other characters.   

    After losing Rhoda and Phyllis and being unable to film at the location of her apartment.. the show moved Mary Richards into that high rise.  Her apartment was soul less and corporate without any of the personality of her original apartment.  

    I remember Penny Marshall and Mary Kay Place guest starred in season 6.. in an attempt to recreate the home life environment that MTM had with Rhoda and Phyllis in season 1 through 5.  For whatever reason, neither character really took off.

2)  Mary became less warm and idealistic.. and became more sad and uptight in later seasons.  

     I do think it made sense she would lose that wide eyed optimism as she embraced the capitalistic lifestyle in Minneapolis.  That was helped due to her becoming more established at the news station and moved into an 'adult' apartment. With Rhoda and Phyllis no longer in the picture, Mary lost that work/life balance that she had.. and that contributed to the change in her character and attitude.

 

Just some random thoughts I had on a Saturday :) 

I agree. I watched the rewatched the series all the way through and the show really did lose something when Rhoda and Phyllis left. Mary only had her co-workers to hang out with. Yeah they were friends but now all her friends worked with her. She no longer had anyone who hang out with at home on weekends or into the late night Rhoda or do something with. She was left with two married men and Ted. The only other woman around was Sue Ann and she was a bitch. It also got really boring the only people she hung out with were her work friends. I wish they had been able to find someone else to be a new best friend. Could she had made friends with someone at her new apartment? I loved her old apartment but I can see why Mary older and making more money would find a new place.

[DoctorAtomic]

Mary's new apartment really didn't lend to people just stopping in like the old one either. You can see my comments over the last few years. I watched the entire series. I thought that mid season 7 was when the show ran out of steam. The finale was a good as any out there. 

[Halting Hex]

So, I'm late to the news, but John Amos passed away at the end of August.  "Gordy" was 84.

And so it goes.  When Mary left us in 2017, I felt a void in my heart, but I consoled myself thinking that, aside from Ted Knight (who passed in 1986), all of the cast were still with us, with Betty and Cloris seeming young into their 90s.

And now, only seven years later, they're almost all gone. From Betty and Cloris to Ed and Gavin, from Georgia (way too soon at age 68) and Valerie (who endured so many health issues) to John Amos and even John Gabriel (five episodes as Andy Rivers, the Sports Guy).  The WJM-TV newsroom stands empty.

All we have left are Joyce Bulifant (Marie Slaughter), who turns 87 in December, and Lisa Gerritsen (Bess), who turns 67 five days after Joyce's birthday.

(Fun Fact:  John Gabriel, primarily known for his soap opera work, was in the unaired original pilot "Marooned" that later became Gilligan's Island.  He played a high-school teacher rather than a full-fledged Professor, but still cool, I'd say.)

Farewell, geniuses.  Thank you for countless laughs across seven seasons of (mostly) beauty.

(That wretched Bill Daily back-door pilot episode [2.22, "His Two Right Hands"] aside, of course.)

[OT]Another Fun Fact:  Joyce Bulifant has been married five times, and aside from a one-year blip with hubby #4, she's tried to make it work each time.  First it was 10 years with James "Book him, Danno" MacArthur, then five with Edward Mallory (the primary Dr. Bill Horton on Days of Our Lives), then 17 years with famed TV director William Asher (best known for I Love Lucy), then the one year blip with some unknown fellow, and then she had settled down with Roger Perry (that's Captain John Christopher to you, Star Trek  fans!) for 16 years until he passed away in 2018.

Ironically, Bulifant's 2020 memoir, My Four Hollywood Husbands, tells us that all the famous spouses were alcoholics.  I don't know if that's why she divorced the anonymous Glade Hansen so quickly…perhaps he wasn't enough of a challenge?[/OT]

Edited November 11 by Halting Hex