Dev F May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, hellmouse said: Interview with Joe Weisberg and Joel Fields (Sepinwall/Uproxx): ‘The Americans’ Creators Explain (And Don’t Explain) The Show’s Emotional Finale Great interview. I laughed out loud at this part: Quote Is there a particular song you always had on the want list that either the band never agreed to it, or you just could never find a good place to use it, that you really wish could’ve been in the show somehow? Fields: For this season, I would have said that we always wanted Talking Heads in the show, but could never find the right sequence, but we did. Twice. So, we got to tick that off The Americans bucket list. Weisberg: Well, what’s the woman who wouldn’t let us put the song in because the show was too violent? Fields: I don’t even want to talk about that. Edited May 31, 2018 by Dev F Link to comment
scartact May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 36 minutes ago, hellmouse said: Spoilers for the finale. I thought I'd start collecting some of the reviews and recaps. Interview with Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys (NYT): The End of ‘The Americans’: Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys on the ‘Devastating’ Finale Interview with Joe Weisberg and Joel Fields (Sepinwall/Uproxx): ‘The Americans’ Creators Explain (And Don’t Explain) The Show’s Emotional Finale Interview with cast, crew, writers, producers, etc about the finale (Vulture): An Oral History of The Americans Series Finale Vulture: The Americans Series-Finale Recap NYT: The Americans' Finale: The Damage Done AV Club: The Americans ends as it lived: Tense, affecting and one of the greats Vox: The Americans seeks a new “START” in a tremendous series finale I haven't read these all yet so I haven't pulled out any quotes but I'm sure they are great. Going through my post-show debrief readings (one last time! Makes me sad) and just gotta shout out that I've loved Todd VanDerWerff's (and company's) post-show commentaries so much ever since I started watching The Americans back in 2016. Of all the reviewers, I've always felt he really understood the show the most and his interpretations most often guided mine. Also, Vulture has a crap ton of articles post-finale. 1 Link to comment
jjj May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 Here is Holly Taylor's theories about the future of Paige (no, I don't care what she thinks, but here are possibilities): www.vulture.com/2018/05/holly-taylor-paige-jennings-future.html 1 Link to comment
hellmouse May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 27 minutes ago, Dev F said: Great interview. I laughed out loud at this part: Weisberg: Well, what’s the woman who wouldn’t let us put the song in because the show was too violent? Fields: I don’t even want to talk about that. I know! I wonder who the singer was. 1 Link to comment
hellmouse May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 Really interesting, lengthy interview with Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys at Gothamist. I don't want to pull quotes so as not to spoil it for those who still haven't seen the episode, but it's a good read. Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys Reflect On The End Of 'The Americans' 1 Link to comment
Umbelina May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 The End of The Americans What did it mean to root for these murderous antiheroes, whose moral struggles were so like our own? ;By Willa Paskin Quote History—our past but the Jennings’ future—hangs over The Americans finale like a partly cloudy forecast, promising both the chance of rain and the possibility of sunlight. The Jennings are returning to a bloated, dying, immoral state that cannot possibly justify the vile deeds they have done on its behalf. We know enough about Philip, whose conscience already pricks him, and Elizabeth, a true believer, to know that this will weigh on them. (As, perhaps, will Philip’s potential run-in with Martha, on the streets of Moscow.) And then after learning that their immoral acts were conducted on behalf of a morally bankrupt state, they will see that state fall, only to turn into a kind of metastasized version of America, just as corrupt as the old USSR but with all our avarice and consumerism. (Philip won’t have to wait long to eat another Big Mac.) But, at the same time, the future also means that Henry and Paige are not as far away as they seem to be—not on the other side of the iron curtain but eventually just a plane flight away. It was actually imagining some possible future encounter between the Jennings and their children that drove home for me the melancholy of this entire series. That meeting, if it ever happens, can be nothing but awkward and fraught and full of hurt, not only because of the lives no longer shared, but the ones that were never fully shared to begin with. It took the finale to show us that the trap of their tragedy was sprung years ago, before the series even began. Yup. 3 Link to comment
hellmouse May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 (edited) A bunch of short interview clips from the FX event last night. These are all from Gold Derby. I don't know the interviewer's name, but it's clear that the actors/showrunners know him and that he's a supporter of the show. I hope there will be longer interviews at some point, maybe as part of Emmy campaigns! Joe Weisberg & Joel Fields Keri Russell & Matthew Ryhs Noah Emmerich Margo Martindale Brandon J. Dirden Keidrich Sellati Holly Taylor Another short interview from the FX event, this one with Entertainment Tonight. Less about their characters and more about "you guys are a couple IRL", although I did like the questions about whether Keri's children have seen clips of her on the Mickey Mouse Club. Keri Russell & Matthew Rhys React to Emotional Series Finale ETA - a good review of the finale from James Poniewozik at NYT: 'The Americans,' At Last, Lets Us Exhale Quote To the end, the deepest blows on “The Americans” were the ones that didn’t leave a mark. The show featured its share of gruesome mutilations over six seasons, but the only thing broken and stuffed into a suitcase in this finale was your heart. Edited May 31, 2018 by hellmouse 3 Link to comment
scartact May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 Emily Nussbaum's review of the finale is up! Only read the first few lines, but her asphalt gray and snow white line made me think back to season one when Nina mused about Americans thinking only in black and white; for Russians, everything is (was) grey. That line stuck with me as a very specific way the show wanted us to read itself. 2 Link to comment
Umbelina May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 The Americans: Joe Weisberg and Joel Fields Break Down a Stunning Series Finale Vanity Fair. The show's masterminds talk life with and without our favorite Soviet spies, Philip and Elizabeth Jennings. by Joy Press Quote As the series approached its tense ending, the cost that the Jenningses have paid for a life of self-sacrifice (to a higher cause the viewer knows is headed toward history’s dustbin) becomes clear. We saw it in their faces—the ghostly pallor, the furrows of worry—and in the heap of cigarette butts left behind the now chain-smoking Elizabeth. As they abandoned an entire life, and practically all human ties apart from their own perilously frayed relationship, Russell and Rhys delivered haunting performances, particularly in the show’s very last scene: Philip and Elizabeth stand on the precipice of an uncertain future, as Elizabeth’s steely note of resignation—“We’ll get used to it”—hovers in the gray Russian breeze. Well this answers something brought up in the episode discussion thread: Quote Did you ever play with a scenario in which Stan turns them in, or were you pretty set on this path? Fields: On the one hand, this ending we’ve had in mind since the end of Season 1, beginning of Season 2. On the other hand, although we plan a lot and we often stick to our plan, we are really enthusiastic about throwing the plan out the window when a better possibility comes along. And I’d say, on this finale, we experimented with all sorts of different versions of the story, but this is really the one we started with, and this is the one that felt right all along to us. They also address a few more points brought up in the episode threads, such as, "why so much violence from Liz this season?" Link to comment
hellmouse May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 32 minutes ago, Umbelina said: The Americans: Joe Weisberg and Joel Fields Break Down a Stunning Series Finale Vanity Fair. The show's masterminds talk life with and without our favorite Soviet spies, Philip and Elizabeth Jennings. by Joy Press Well this answers something brought up in the episode discussion thread: They also address a few more points brought up in the episode threads, such as, "why so much violence from Liz this season?" I was glad to read this answer. I for one do not want to see a spin-off with Paige or Martha or any other character. But OMMV of course! Quote Exactly! Could there be a spin-off with Renee and Martha and Claudia? Weisberg: I think we’re pretty devoted to no spin-offs. 1 Link to comment
hellmouse May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 Another good interview with Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys. at The Hollywood Reporter. 'The Americans': Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys Talk "Devastating" Ending I particularly liked reading their thoughts on the return to Russia and what it means for Philip and Elizabeth. Quote How do you think Philip and Elizabeth feel about returning to Russia? Russell: It's interesting because if you think about it, they left when they were kids. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know of any 45 year-olds who are just dying to join the army. They get there when they're 18 or 17 when you're up for adventure and ready to go. So home is a very different place at 17 than when you're in your mid-40s, and what you need and what you want and what you expect are all very different things. So I don't know. I think both of them are coming back to a wildly different country than they left and [Russia] is only going to become more different in the next two years. I think that's what the rocky path that they have in front of them looks like. I think it's uncertain and rocky and kind of all they have is each other to say, "I'm going to be with you and we're going to get through this together, and we're hopefully find a way back in the next few years." Hopefully they will find their way back to the United States to somehow find those kids and work it out. Matthew, how do you feel about what Philip and Elizabeth's future looks like? Russell: He's like, I'm going to take Martha on a few dates. [Laughs.] How is Philip and Elizabeth's marriage doing at this point? Has everything been forgiven? Rhys: No, I don't think so. Oh, god, I don't even know where to begin on what those two talk about in their shitty little apartment. Probably they'll actually be given a hero's welcome. Probably that's what happened. When the KGB members have been serving for a long time, you would be treated like royalty upon return. But I think the fallout of what those two would have to go through in order to live — and I don't think Elizabeth would be open to couples therapy. So there would just be a lot of raging alcoholism. There could be an enormous amount of resentment from Philip to Elizabeth … but they were kids who didn't know any better when they were brought into this situation. But the sacrifice has been so enormous. Ultimately, they're the only two people who can understand what the other has been through. Also on this page is a short video with snippets of Matthew Rhys talking about The Americans and his role on Girls from an upcoming Drama Actor Roundtable. It's just a few snippets - but one thing that I hadn't heard before was that he wants to make a movie about the man who donated the land to LA that makes up Griffin Park. Hopefully there will be more when the whole video goes live - it says it will be July 8 on SundanceTV. Link to comment
sistermagpie June 1, 2018 Share June 1, 2018 Heh. Was just watching last night's The Daily Show. Trevor Noah was covering a Trump rally where he was claiming there were spies embedded in his campaign. He said to the crowd, "Raise your hand if you're a spy infiltrating our campaign!" TN said you could laugh and say it was silly but that's how The Americans finale ended last night. Ronald Reagan said, "Raise your hand if you're a spy" and the Jennings fell for it. Did not see that coming." Link to comment
scartact June 1, 2018 Share June 1, 2018 Tim Goodman & Daniel Feinberg's review/critical conversation is up. I love when they talk about how much of the finale/final season is open to interpretation. 1 Link to comment
Erin9 June 1, 2018 Share June 1, 2018 7 hours ago, hellmouse said: Another good interview with Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys. at The Hollywood Reporter. 'The Americans': Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys Talk "Devastating" Ending I particularly liked reading their thoughts on the return to Russia and what it means for Philip and Elizabeth. Also on this page is a short video with snippets of Matthew Rhys talking about The Americans and his role on Girls from an upcoming Drama Actor Roundtable. It's just a few snippets - but one thing that I hadn't heard before was that he wants to make a movie about the man who donated the land to LA that makes up Griffin Park. Hopefully there will be more when the whole video goes live - it says it will be July 8 on SundanceTV. It was interesting. There’s no way it can be an easy transition. They’ve lost their children. They’ve been gone over 20 years. They’ll have to be doing something different career wise. Their relationship has never been easy or simple. That won’t change. But- they are all each other has and they’re the only people who can truly understand the other and what they’ve been through. They have a deep bond. As Elizabeth said- they’ll adjust- together. I tend to feel them making it together is what gives them a future so to speak. I feel hopeful for them- though it won’t be easy. 1 Link to comment
SunnyBeBe June 1, 2018 Share June 1, 2018 On 5/31/2018 at 4:06 PM, hellmouse said: Another good interview with Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys. at The Hollywood Reporter. 'The Americans': Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys Talk "Devastating" Ending I particularly liked reading their thoughts on the return to Russia and what it means for Philip and Elizabeth. Also on this page is a short video with snippets of Matthew Rhys talking about The Americans and his role on Girls from an upcoming Drama Actor Roundtable. It's just a few snippets - but one thing that I hadn't heard before was that he wants to make a movie about the man who donated the land to LA that makes up Griffin Park. Hopefully there will be more when the whole video goes live - it says it will be July 8 on SundanceTV. Nice article. I find it amusing that Matthew thinks that P and E gets a heroes welcome and benefits upon their service. He doesn't seem too concerned with KGB faction groups retaliating......hmmm..... Link to comment
hellmouse June 1, 2018 Share June 1, 2018 A few more articles I've found: Jezebel: A Tribute to the Best, Sexiest, and Dorkiest Disguises on The Americans. I enjoyed the reminder of all the various characters we've seen them be. I would seriously buy a yearbook type book that showed every single disguise they've each worn. Vulture: The Americans: Every Episode Ranked. You can argue with the placement but it is interesting to see the rationale they use for how they ranked the episodes. I mostly agreed, although I still don't think Amador is lovable, as they describe him. I thought he was annoying. The New Yorker: Translating 'The Americans' And Seeing A Mirror Of My Own American Experience. Short essay by Masha Gessen, who translated the English to Russian for the last three seasons. I hadn't realized how closely the timeline of her own life paralleled the Jenningses. She also has some ideas about what might happen to them in the new Russia. Quote Philip and Elizabeth will be in demand. As K.G.B. agents with excellent knowledge of English, they can get jobs at any number of new companies that are trying both to do business with foreigners and to stay out of the way of the secret police. They might become heads of security for one of the companies that will grow very large in the coming years; their experience in assassinations may also come in handy. They could also become biznesmeny and launch an enterprise of their own—their connections and their English will be a great asset. Hell, they could build a travel empire. (Back in Washington, they ran a small travel agency.) They cannot imagine it now, but they will probably succeed. They will succeed on Russia’s emergent new terms, by emulating the lives of the Americans they once were: by calling their place of work office, wearing American clothes, and driving everywhere, through traffic that will soon become gridlock. Like my mother, they will wonder about the people they might have been and the things they might have done if they had chosen differently. What was the point of risking their lives, taking the lives of others, and sacrificing their children’s trust for a cause that Mikhail Gorbachev and the whole Soviet empire seemed to give up so easily? In its quest for uncanny accuracy, “The Americans” was full of lessons about Russia, spies, the Cold War, and life. The most important of these, surely, is that eternity will come crashing down when you least expect it to. Vox: The Americans series finale’s greatest secrets, explained by its showrunners. Todd VanDerWerff interviews Joe Weisberg and Joel Fields. Also links to a podcast with a longer interview that includes a chat with Matthew Rhys. I haven't listened to the podcast. 2 Link to comment
Umbelina June 1, 2018 Share June 1, 2018 Quote Like my parents, the Jenningses return to the Soviet Union in 1987 as Americans. Caught up in a power struggle that will ultimately bring down the Soviet Union—though no one can conceive of this yet—they have been cornered and forced to go back. “We’ll get used to it,” Elizabeth says. She has no idea what she is talking about. Eternity has already cracked and is raining chunks of plaster on an unsuspecting world. Elizabeth and Philip—Nadezhda and Mikhail—are about to have to learn a slew of new words, and this is the least of their problems. If people read nothing else? Read this one, and thanks @hellmouse for all the links! https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/translating-the-americans-and-seeing-a-mirror-of-my-own-american-experience Quote What was the point of risking their lives, taking the lives of others, and sacrificing their children’s trust for a cause that Mikhail Gorbachev and the whole Soviet empire seemed to give up so easily? In its quest for uncanny accuracy, “The Americans” was full of lessons about Russia, spies, the Cold War, and life. The most important of these, surely, is that eternity will come crashing down when you least expect it to. I hope she write more! 2 Link to comment
Erin9 June 1, 2018 Share June 1, 2018 Interesting. I still think it’s valid to say that they wanted a better world, a safer country, a better country. They were patriots who loved their home. The name of the country and communism wasn’t everything. Certainly not to Philip. I don’t see it as a waste. Their final mission was hugely important. I realize that arguably helped end communism- but imo, regardless of the leader, it was crashing down sooner rather than later. And - their children exist because of it. They can’t regret it. I do agree they likely will be successful back home. They have all the tools they need. 1 Link to comment
BW Manilowe June 2, 2018 Share June 2, 2018 (edited) On 5/30/2018 at 7:52 PM, SunnyBeBe said: YOUNG Matthew. Man.....there are no words. I like (not) how the person who posted the clip (at least as I saw it) called it "Matthew Rhys' British accent". I suppose that's right, technically, because Wales (as in the part of Great Britain where Prince Charles, the late Princess Diana, & their sons, Princes William & Harry, get/got their royal titles from, by birth for the males & by marriage for Diana), where Matthew was born & raised, is part of Great Britain. But actually, as Matthew (I think) says in the clip, his accent is, more properly, a Welsh accent... even though Matthew sort of confuses things by also (still correctly) calling himself a Brit a few times in the clip, though he's actually, specifically, a Welshman. He's both a Welshman & a Brit. I know... I'm probably being pedantic & nitpicky. Edited June 2, 2018 by BW Manilowe To clarify a comment. Link to comment
BW Manilowe June 2, 2018 Share June 2, 2018 From the Honolulu Star Advertiser: Hawaii Actress Ruthie Ann Miles to Return to the Stage in London She'll be playing her Tony-winning role, Lady Thiang, in the London West End production of The King and I at the Palladium Theatre. Preview performances start June 21st & Opening Night is July 3rd. In a way, I'm glad she seems up to getting back to work so soon after the tragedy & I wish her much success. But I hope she's also not using this booking as an escape from what happened/reality--she's not throwing herself into her work to try & forget about what happened/to try & pretend it never happened (as many people seem to after such a physically & emotionally devastating event in their lives), which would actually be rather difficult (to pretend it never happened) because, if it never happened, her older daughter & her baby daughter would probably be in London with her &, sadly, they won't be. I hope the driver involved in this tragedy gets the book thrown at her, to the extent that the laws of New York City & New York State allow. Especially since not once since this happened have I seen/heard where she's publicly expressed any remorse for causing the deaths of 2 young children & a preterm baby (I think you have to assume that, even though the baby was apparently fine immediately after the tragedy, her death just shy of her due date was probably connected in some way to Ruthie Ann's injuries sustained as a result of the tragedy); nor has she shown any public remorse for injuring the mothers of the dead children & the preterm baby. I suppose the whole "no public expression of remorse" thing may be a legal move, since you're deemed "innocent until proven guilty" of a crime in our legal/justice system, & showing public remorse would probably immediately show that she's guilty, as does the record of previous traffic violations counted against the car itself (she had to be driving that car, herself, when the other violations were incurred because it's the same car that was involved in the tragedy with Ruthie Ann, her friend, & their 3 children whether or not the children were living or preterm at the time). I wish we could get her doctor as an accessory, but unless (s)he specifically contacted the applicable BMV/DMV branch herself/himself regarding the driver's health-related restrictions, which were then ignored/blown off by the driver, I doubt they could take him/her to court over this. I mean, if the doctor restricts her driving for health reasons, & the only 2 people who are hearing about this are the doctor & the patient, it's really up to the patient to follow the doctor's orders without the doctor, or someone else from his/her office, "babysitting" the patient to be certain they're complying with the doctor's orders. 2 Link to comment
SunnyBeBe June 2, 2018 Share June 2, 2018 Does anyone think that since the show had it's finale, that it will be covered on Saturday Night Live tonight? I could envision some humor about the Russian slant, Paige, the FBI, etc. Link to comment
hellmouse June 2, 2018 Share June 2, 2018 (edited) Interview with Keri Russell at Marie Claire: The End of The Americans: Keri Russell's Last Stand. Two quotes I found interesting: Quote ON THE REAL MEANING BEHIND ELIZABETH'S DECISION TO BETRAY THE CENTER: "When we make a decision in our lives, it's affected by so many factors. And some days, more factors are true than others. I would say Elizabeth's decision was really her coming into her own thinking, and freeing herself from the group that she was so involved with. And a break away from them is a deeper connection to Philip, because they're on their own. As much as Elizabeth toed the line, I really believe that incrementally and slowly, inch-by-inch, over the years they were separating from The Center by getting married on their own and by telling secrets to each other that they weren't supposed to tell. I think the writers did that very nicely." ON ELIZABETH ENTERING SUCH A DARK PLACE THIS SEASON: "I really enjoyed it. It was this completely full character arc that I had the privilege of getting to be a part of. It was such a cool story, and to be a woman and get that part when usually a man gets the more interesting one...it was such a gift. I loved doing it. Yes, it was depressing and I looked really bad the whole time. But I relished it. It felt like a real full circle of a character—which, as we all know, isn't always the case in today's world with ladies always having to look perfect and act perfect. I feel like I got to experience getting to be a true character with many flaws. It was fucking awesome." Edited June 2, 2018 by hellmouse 1 Link to comment
EtheltoTillie June 2, 2018 Share June 2, 2018 On 3/29/2018 at 4:11 PM, Umbelina said: It's HUGE. Somewhere in the last 3rd of that. This is the gist of the spoiler she so casually, and stupidly dropped. I be the show runners are pissed. Hide contents She not only spoils that Paige is alive, but also that she'll be living in the USA "10 years from the end of the show." Further, she's not sure if she still spy for Russia, or be a regular American So we get quite a bit from that, including that obviously, the whole family moving back to the USSR is off the table. I purposely did not watch that video at the time, nor did I read your spoiler tag. I saved it for post finale. I am watching it now. Thanks for posting. 1 Link to comment
hellmouse June 2, 2018 Share June 2, 2018 Charming interview with Matthew Rhys in Esquire. I am glad they seem to be doing lots of interviews - I hope it's a full court press to get them and the show maximum Emmy voter attention! The Moment Everything Changed For Matthew Rhys It's always hard to know whether he's being completely serious in print interviews, so I take everything with a grain of salt. But he really does sound like a good guy. Quote According to Joe Weisberg, Rhys frequently helped lighten the mood when the cameras weren’t rolling. “On set, the nights can get very long,” he says. “One of the things that Matthew did was keep everybody laughing.” ...About that sense of humor: It doesn't come across in his depiction of Philip, but Matthew Rhys is a funny guy. He’s self-deprecating, easy to make laugh, and quick with an impersonation—including Buzz Lightyear when he’s stuck on Spanish mode and Billy Bob Thornton in an interview discussing the Emmys. There’s a series of red-carpet photos of Rhys at the premiere of mother! in which Rhys is briefly topless. Russell, beside him, is in stitches. (Rhys says he was putting on a Sierra Club t-shirt to show his support.) ...Adam Driver attributes Rhys's sense of humor to him being a good listener. “He takes everything you're saying and throws them back at you, referencing things you forgot you said.” Driver says. “You can't keep up with how quick he is.” From Paste magazine, a review of the finale: The Americans Leaves Nothing on the Table in Its Jaw-Dropping Series Finale Quote It’d almost be funny, how fast one’s life can unravel, were the experience itself not so profoundly upsetting. Houses, spouses, American kids, new cars and old friends, longtime careers: The emblems of “success” we spend decades accruing turn out to be tenuous whether we wish it or not, and when the bell tolls—and it tolls for all of us—the choices are stark indeed. The final episode of The Americans—the series entire—is about these choices, about careful plans and awful surprises, about chaos, confusion, fear, regret, about who we are when push comes to shove and how far that is from who we hoped we’d be. The most magnificent sequence in “START,” after all, is the one laser-focused on the pain of endings, set to U2’s “With or Without You”: “My hands are tied / My body bruised…” the song reports, an anthem of impossible choices if ever there was one. “Nothing to win and / Nothing left to lose.” From EW, an interview with Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys. I can't remember if it's been posted already. The Americans exit interview: Keri Russell, Matthew Rhys bid farewell to their Cold War spy drama. This part made me laugh: Quote Did either of you take any mementos from set? RUSSELL: I just saw something that Matthew took! The ax from the brutal ax scene [this season]. He has a mild obsession with chopping wood and tough-guy stuff, and Sam, our waddling toddler, was carrying the ax. So I went, “Ah! Put that down!” And Matt’s like, “No, no, it’s a fake from set.” I’m like, “Oh, well, how would I know that?” [Laughs] RHYS: It’s made out of rubber, and I just thought it would be a lot of fun to have. 3 Link to comment
kokapetl June 3, 2018 Share June 3, 2018 (edited) Take a bow Russians aren’t as tall as Americans, are they? Edited June 3, 2018 by Kokapetl 3 Link to comment
hellmouse June 3, 2018 Share June 3, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Kokapetl said: Take a bow Russians aren’t as tall as Americans, are they? But look how they've grown! Edited June 3, 2018 by hellmouse 3 Link to comment
BW Manilowe June 3, 2018 Share June 3, 2018 This was posted to Twitter earlier today, through The Americans' show account. It's a short video of fans' reactions to the final episode & the end of the series. 2 Link to comment
SunnyBeBe June 4, 2018 Share June 4, 2018 OMG, this Season 1 trailer is awesome! That was a great season. 1 Link to comment
sistermagpie June 4, 2018 Share June 4, 2018 LOL. Even in the trailer Elizabeth gets all the backstory. 3 Link to comment
hellmouse June 4, 2018 Share June 4, 2018 This quiz is funny. I got them all right, which maybe fits better in the "you know you've been watching the Americans too much" thread, lol. Who said it? Philip and Elizabeth From The Americans or Philip and Elizabeth From The Crown? 2 Link to comment
Umbelina June 4, 2018 Share June 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, hellmouse said: This quiz is funny. I got them all right, which maybe fits better in the "you know you've been watching the Americans too much" thread, lol. Who said it? Philip and Elizabeth From The Americans or Philip and Elizabeth From The Crown? I got them all right. I'm obsessed. 1 Link to comment
hellmouse June 7, 2018 Share June 7, 2018 I don't think these have been posted yet. Collider: A long interview with some quotes I hadn't seen before: The Americans’ Stars and Showrunners Break Down That Epic Series Finale Variety: A review by Caroline Framke, who used to be part of the Vox review team: The Americans’ Finale Was Surprising and Brilliant for What It Didn’t Do Vulture: A close read of the garage scene in the finale: The Blistering Vulnerability of The Americans Finale’s Garage Scene 1 Link to comment
duVerre June 7, 2018 Share June 7, 2018 For a minute--and I truly mean a minute--of amusement, try this quiz from Vulture. Which Phil and Elizabeth (The Americans, The Crown) said this dialogue? http://www.vulture.com/article/the-americans-the-crown-philip-elizabeth-quiz.html 1 Link to comment
hellmouse June 11, 2018 Share June 11, 2018 A few articles with quotes from the recent ATX festival in Austin. Short article at Deadline Hollywood: ‘The Americans’: Cast & Creators Joke Potential Spinoffs, Keri Russell & Matthew Rhys Talk Spy Love – ATX Longer article at Indiewire: ‘The Americans’ Finale: Cast and Creators Dig Deep for New Answers to the Series’ Wild Endings. Some good quotes from the cast about Stan and Renee, how Philip feels about being in Russia, why Paige got off the train. Pictures at Hollywood Reporter: On the Set of 'The Americans' as Keri Russell, Matthew Rhys Bid Farewell to Series. Pics from on-set filming of Harvest, mostly at the house location. A few quotes. I liked this picture. 3 Link to comment
SusanSunflower June 12, 2018 Share June 12, 2018 (edited) I was really shocked by the contention of the writers at the 6 minute mark that P&E were not "self-aware" and that this had been a deliberate decision/conceit all along wrt to their character's development. At this point, I'm not sure I believe what the writers say since they seem to be in the position of being called geniuses by avid fans because _____, to which they return the compliment saying, so incredibly insightful for you to have noticed and -- yes-- we did that on purpose (we are as brilliant as you want to be believe we are) ... Anyway, I don't think that it worked as well as they think because this lack of insight and self-reflection cumulatively made the characters, who in the beginning seemed to spark with intelligence, seem dull and rat-races ("no exit") ... and I suspect that that "character decision" was a KISS writerly dodger (keep it simple stupid), if they don't have self-awareness, we don't have to write it ... and yet, I cannot imagine any immigrant (particularly an immigrant with a big secret and a second language not developing considerable self-awareness because "what other people think/see/feel" is so critical to their survival. Many occupy 3 or more"worlds" in a new country, none of which are natural or "home-like". Their ability to speak/comprehend/read/write their second language can be "modulated" so that they "don't understand" some people (to cut short the interaction) which may be a deliberate dodge. Regardless, it's a hell of a thing to find out AFTER the series has ended .... particularly in view of EST and Phillip recognizing a greener pasture of self-awareness there ... A singe-identity worker-bee consumed with the daily slog might well ** not ** be self-aware, particularly with only a K-12 education, but that's not P&E .... with their two foundational identities, 20 years of history and myriad false-identities created and assumed for work. Such a strange (and artificial) decision for the writers to have made .... if you believe them ... I was actually so confounded by the idea I looked it up https://www.britannica.com/topic/self added * not * ... there are people who live paycheck to paycheck and drunken weekend to same for months and years ... but a lot of that IMHO is numbing the pain of lack of choice ...illegal immigrant laborers either lead exemplary lives to avoid detection or marginal desperate lonely transient lives ... most seem to "figure out" that keeping a low profile (and avoid the police) is in their self-interest. Edited June 12, 2018 by SusanSunflower 2 Link to comment
sistermagpie June 12, 2018 Share June 12, 2018 They've talked about the lack of self-awareness for a long time in interviews and I don't think it's artificial at all--on the contrary, it seems like it would be unnatural if they did have the kind of self-awareness that afaik they're talking about. Philip kind of refers to his just starting to get an idea about it explicitly when he talks to Martha about thinking about things that happened when he was a kid and wondering if that's what made him like he is now. It just means that they're not aware of doing stuff because of unconscious psychological reasons from childhood. The kind of stuff you get in therapy, which wasn't as widespread then. (Now people don't even have to go to therapy to think about themselves that way.) Certainly it wasn't something people growing up in post-WWII USSR would have. Stan isn't self-aware either. 2 Link to comment
SusanSunflower June 12, 2018 Share June 12, 2018 (edited) yes, but not everyone has been listening to their interviews or podcasts (I haven't .... and self-awareness is something I take for granted as part of "humanity" I have to admit that this reminded me of the often-made "elitist" charge made against EST (and the elitism many EST graduates assume was conveyed unto themself on "getting it") .... all too reminiscent in turn of the distain of the underclasses and poorly educated as being intellectual/moral/philosophical/artistic vacuums ... which simply is belied by getting off the air-conditioned tour bus. I would say that Stan, like Elizabeth (like my own mother on many -- but not all subjects) simply locked-that-door to avoid thinking about things, self-doubt, regret, guilt, and the rest ... and that those "dark places" often exist as boogyman also exerting their own influence on the course of events or as powder-kegs to explode inopportunely. Edited June 12, 2018 by SusanSunflower Link to comment
Umbelina June 12, 2018 Share June 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, sistermagpie said: They've talked about the lack of self-awareness for a long time in interviews and I don't think it's artificial at all--on the contrary, it seems like it would be unnatural if they did have the kind of self-awareness that afaik they're talking about. Philip kind of refers to his just starting to get an idea about it explicitly when he talks to Martha about thinking about things that happened when he was a kid and wondering if that's what made him like he is now. It just means that they're not aware of doing stuff because of unconscious psychological reasons from childhood. The kind of stuff you get in therapy, which wasn't as widespread then. (Now people don't even have to go to therapy to think about themselves that way.) Certainly it wasn't something people growing up in post-WWII USSR would have. Stan isn't self-aware either. Hello! The sixties, the seventies, and the eighties ring a bell? I'm not ribbing you, you know I love you, but come on, those generations were all consumed with the discovery of self, in a myriad of ways, it was HUGE in all three cultural decades. I agree with @SusanSunflower on this one. There jobs and two cultures required an incredible amount of self-awareness in everything they did. They would not be able to do them without it. I'm not saying they were navel-gazers, but I do disagree that they "lacked self awareness" in any significant or meaningful way. Link to comment
SusanSunflower June 12, 2018 Share June 12, 2018 (edited) As I said, I couldn't imagine anyone (grown with responsibilities, experienced in some loss) being devoid of self-awareness ... either IRL or in fiction ... and I found this https://www.readitforward.com/authors/7-of-the-least-self-aware-characters-from-literature/ The writers' conceit explains some of the massive blind-spots or avoidances of the characters (maybe) ...but not really ... Edited June 12, 2018 by SusanSunflower Link to comment
sistermagpie June 12, 2018 Share June 12, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said: yes, but not everyone has been listening to their interviews or podcasts (I haven't .... and self-awareness is something I take for granted as part of "humanity" I have to admit that this reminded me of the often-made "elitist" charge made against EST (and the elitism many EST graduates assume was conveyed unto themself on "getting it") .... all too reminiscent in turn of the distain of the underclasses and poorly educated as being intellectual/moral/philosophical/artistic vacuums ... which simply is belied by getting off the air-conditioned tour bus. I would say that Stan, like Elizabeth (like my own mother on many -- but not all subjects) simply locked-that-door to avoid thinking about things, self-doubt, regret, guilt, and the rest ... and that those "dark places" often exist as boogyman also exerting their own influence on the course of events or as powder-kegs to explode inopportunely. But it's not something we can take for granted as part of humanity. I think it's actually relatively modern idea. Philip and Elizabeth would have even more reason than Stan to lock any doors that led to too much self-reflection. They not only grew up having to think about moment-to-moment survival they lived in a system that told them they should see themselves as nobodies and identify with their recently invaded State instead. Then they were trained to make themselves flexible instruments for the will of others. Why would they ever become the kind of people who talked through incidents in their childhood and tried to find ways it was influencing them without them knowing it? I don't think this is something that's just in the podcasts. None of these characters speak the language of self-awareness. They explain their actions to others and themselves as being reactions to things in the external world. Elizabeth, imo, seems to completely consciously believe that all her actions with Paige are about the parenting and moral values she was raised with and has never ever considered that she's internalized these ideas because to doubt them would force her to confront more complicated feelings about her mother. Likewise I don't think Stan's thinking too hard about why he's so drawn to relationships where the other person is keeping him calm and making him feel like a hero. He just thinks he likes these people because they're neat. 29 minutes ago, Umbelina said: I agree with @SusanSunflower on this one. There jobs and two cultures required an incredible amount of self-awareness in everything they did. They would not be able to do them without it. I'm not saying they were navel-gazers, but I do disagree that they "lacked self awareness" in any significant or meaningful way. I don't see why they would need this kind of self-awareness the showrunners talk about at all to do the job they do. On the contrary, their job is easier when they're not naval-gazing--that's what this is. They're aware of ways that their culture and circumstances shaped them differently but that's a different level of depth. Edited June 12, 2018 by sistermagpie 2 Link to comment
SusanSunflower June 12, 2018 Share June 12, 2018 (edited) They don't "need" self-awareness ... they would have it ...welcome or not ... developed with life experience, maturation, etc. Most parents see themselvesin their children at different ages -- welcome or not. Like empathy, some people develop this more than others, some people (particularly the brutalized) may actively resist it or demand "stoicism" IMHO, not speaking of self-awareness is part of the problem in the characterizations .... lack of future orientation, hopes, dreams, regrets. Teenagers (having limited life experience) have notoriously underdeveloped self-awareness -- impulsive, rude, inconsiderate, subjective, self-centered. Many are paralyzed by self-consciousness and body-image issues. They're not like usually-blank-eye and sort of passive, like Paige. More like the future-oriented Henry ... it's not something that most people choose or something that needs to be actively sought ... even if many teens, like Holden Caufield, loathe "phonies" ... Elizabeth is a shell of a human being .... often referred to as bot-like .... Phillip with more empathy is more care-worthy Elizabeth's backstory (of hardship and deprivation) did not make me care about her more, instead, her machine-like "toughness" seemed inhumane (particularly in contrast to her supposed "communist ideals") and made her colder. Phillip at least felt disgust and frustration (it wasn't all in his mental machinations, he felt) Elizabeth, in early episodes, repeated soothed Phillip's misgivings saying "you did what you had to do" as if it were a magic incantation to make bad-feelings go away ... as philips said circa EST (to Paige iirc) sometimes you need to feel the bad feelings (or something to that effect) Edited June 12, 2018 by SusanSunflower Link to comment
Plums June 12, 2018 Share June 12, 2018 I agree with @sistermagpie in thinking they lacked self awareness in the sense that they never really engaged in serious introspection, until Philip got into EST. But it's also missing in the sense that spending their entire adult lives as spies warped their sense of how their actions look from outside of that world, and this is also evidenced throughout the show. When the J's talk about Elizabeth experiencing one or two "cracks" per season of self awareness that get to her in spite of being the person divorced from reality that this life has made her, I took that to be like, okay, in season 3 the crack was Lois Smith calling Elizabeth's grand ideological moral self justifications for murdering innocent old ladies in order to bug mail robots something that "evil people tell themselves when they do evil things". In season 5, a huge crack was P&E reading Pastor Tim's calling what they've done to Paige monstrous, on the same psychologically damaging level of physical or sexual abuse. I also take the J's point that neither Philip nor Elizabeth could have possessed anything remotely like self-awareness when they decided to have kids to further their cover in the first place. Because what could possibly have been the end result of that decision other than the exact personally devastating tragedy that befell them? Those kids lives and their relationship with their parents were destined to be ruined from the moment they were conceived. And it's evident in smaller ways as well, how it never occurs to them that a pattern of meeting privately in the back room at work with the door closed, blinds shut, and turning on a printer randomly to create noise, would look super suspicious to the employees of the business after awhile. Or going on business trips constantly for clients they don't have. It doesn't occur to them to worry that Henry could give anything away to his FBI Agent buddy about the behavior of his parents because Henry doesn't know the truth, so there's nothing for him to say that could arouse suspicion. I actually think they've been very intentional in drawing attention to how deluded and un-self aware people in this business can be. They actually voiced that idea through Oleg's wife when she was arguing with him about not getting sucked back into that world. There are a lot of examples. When Philip is suspicious of Renee in season 5, Elizabeth asks him why it bothers him so much, and he says "I don't want Stan to be like Martha" because he loves Stan, but he is utterly blind to the reality that what he is doing to Stan himself is the exact same type of horrific betrayal he's worried about. Philip has platonic honeypotted him. They're both almost willfully delusional about how the kids would fare in Russia in all the times they consider either having to or deciding to move back, particularly Elizabeth regarding Paige. Elizabeth has always deluded herself where Paige is concerned. But it's both of them. All their worries stem from how the kids would have difficulty adjusting to a new life in a very different place, and it's like it never even occurs to them to consider that the lie of their parents' lives would destroy them more than any change of scenery or language would. Even when Philip is talking about how he never knew is parents at all to Elizabeth, and he's plainly bitter about it, he doesn't connect those feelings to what his own children will inevitably feel about him one day. 1 Link to comment
sistermagpie June 12, 2018 Share June 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said: They don't "need" self-awareness ... they would have it ...welcome or not ... developed with life experience, maturation, etc. Plenty of people go through their life without a real understanding of the psychological underpinnings of why they do what they do. For instance, they get angry when people are late because they think it's just obviously rude without connecting it to the many times they waited for their alcoholic father who never showed up. They don't think they need any other reason for reacting the way they do. I think Elizabeth shows that same tendency a lot--she has to do what she does because the USSR has to be protected from Nazis, basically, and if she becomes weak via exposure to the US the USSR will not survive. She doesn't think it's that personal. Then there's also the way that certain things in your life are so fundamental and always have been so you don't understand that they're not universal. Philip and Elizabeth do see their kids as being like them at times. They also see them as different. But they often aren't accurate even in those ways. They can't really get into their kids heads and the kids can't get into theirs. Paige as early as season 2 is able to explain that she likes the church because it gives her a place to "put it all" (all being whatever it is she finds so crazy about her suburban life). When she says this to Elizabeth Elizabeth is completely uncomprehending even though she's just described Elizabeth herself and her relationship to the Cause. Elizabeth only recognizes a connection when she sees Paige interested in activism. And even then she's sometimes laughably clueless about the parallels when she dismisses Christianity as a fairy tale, for instance, or sneers that Paige is finally starting to see Pastor Tim for "what he is." Elizabeth recognizes the ways she sees herself in Paige--she sees her wanting to improve the world. She doesn't see Paige as being vulnerable to the same psychological crutches. When she says Paige is "fragile somehow" I don't think she recognizes that she's seeing a fragility that she feared/fears in herself. I remember, actually, once seeing someone rant about how they just didn't understand how Elizabeth could still stick to her ridiculous political beliefs when her experience of the US should obviously have shown her they were completely wrong. But the same person's profile on line to me at least seemed just like Elizabeth and out of touch. 3 Link to comment
Erin9 June 12, 2018 Share June 12, 2018 I have a feeling that having kids was as simple as: the centre expects it for the cover. Whether they (Elizabeth) wanted kids or not, it was expected. They probably really didn’t think to question the consequences. Just,eventually, they did as they were told. Because that’s what they were conditioned to do. And over the years- issues popped up. Lying to the kids and those consequences. Having very American kids. Not Russian ones. What if we die? They die? We get caught? What if we need to go back to Russia? Tell Paige or not? How much or how little? And so on. I do think they came to have some awareness of these issues over time. But, considerably later. And obviously it was too late anyway. 2 Link to comment
SusanSunflower June 12, 2018 Share June 12, 2018 (edited) yes, self-awareness isn't always "accurate" (in anyone else's eyes) and one's story evolves throughout life ... things you think about who you are and why you do what you do change-- why you chose your college major, what you most value about your spouse ... a massive heartbreak at 24, may be almost erased in significance at 40. Mommy-bot Elizabeth "reminded" me of Harlow's wire monkey mommy experiments .... personally I think Paige and Henry would be much more screwed up if Elizabeth were the bot described https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/thoughtful-animal/friday-fun-cloth-monkey-wire-monkey-video/ My point is not about Elizabeth, but the writing and the big gaps/inexplicable lapses of P&E written as decent parents, even as they devoted quite a lot of time and effort to "parenting" at different times and Phillip was apparently trusted to be available by both kids wrt homework help and moments of private conversation ... I found Elizabeth's general lack of affection and warm disconcerting ... I was inclined to call this "lazy writing" before the writers' declaring it was intentional ... It didn't enhance but hollow-out. I wondered what happened to the intelligent people-reading P&E from the beginning nuf. Edited June 12, 2018 by SusanSunflower Link to comment
SunnyBeBe June 26, 2018 Share June 26, 2018 Does anyone know if Keri has any new projects coming up? I know that Matthew has some, but, didn't see any for Keri. I'm curious as to how well a show like that sets you up financially, if you spend wisely. Once the show ends, I suppose the salary does as well, except for royalties, right? With her career since teenhood, would she be in a position to not have to work? Just curious. With her kids in school, I would think she may not want to venture to some filming location far away. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005392/ Link to comment
BW Manilowe June 27, 2018 Share June 27, 2018 From USA Today: The 10 Best TV Shows of 2018 (So Far) 1 Link to comment
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