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Cranberry

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(edited)

Art is subjective, but technically speaking, Heather is the best dancer on Glee. I love Becca, but she is not on Heather's level. Even Becca will tell you that. From a season 4 interview:
 

 

 

What’s it been like to work with [Heather]?
It’s amazing. Nobody dances like her. She’s a force, and to dance next to her is so intimidating but it’s great.

 

I would have liked to have seen a real dance number with Heather and Jacob though. Without drunken camera movements. 

Edited by Ceeg

Whenever I think of Heather vs Becca I think of their entrance to the stage during "This Is the New Year" when Heather did some fancy leg ballet jump thing and Becca just kind of... hopped. Nothing against Becca, I do like her and think she has also been underserved by the writing and the S4 debacle.

 

I also think that while technical skill in dancing is objective, people can have very individual tastes on the style/performance of certain dancers.

I've never cared about dancing, really. Unless it's Roderick levels of awful, I don't mind it. 

 

I honestly think the main failure of the season 4 new kids was just that the writing was terrible at that point, and RIB very, very stupidly framed them as new (insert old character), even though they obviously weren't the same. They never felt like fully formed characters and just empty shells to poorly bring up very special topics with (see Ryder's entire story). The one that could have been interesting was the catfishing story, if Ryder had actually been willing to give it a try. But, they dropped that one really hard, so, pft. The originals did have the benefit of better writing and our pre-established love for (most) of them. 

 

At this point though, I'd rather watch the newest group, for the most part. It's never been more obvious that Glee has no more story for these old characters, which is sad. I'm just. . .tired of them at this point. 

 

In general. pointing out one thing that made the early success and later failure of glee is hard, because there are a lot of factors. There's so many reasons different people watch the show. Some people just like the musical numbers, some people really gravitate towards one character or actors or ship, some people like the dark comedy of season 1 (which isn't really around anymore), and probably a ton of other things. I was mainly invested in the LGBT storylines/characters and the fact that in the earlier days, there were fewer options to see that. 

 

I also really love the group dynamic, which I do think is a lot more the actors than the characters. If you look at the things the writers make them do, you do wonder why any of them talk to each other. But when the actors just get to have fun, it's fun to watch. 

Art is subjective, but technically speaking, Heather is the best dancer on Glee. I love Becca, but she is not on Heather's level. Even Becca will tell you that. From a season 4 interview:

I would have liked to have seen a real dance number with Heather and Jacob though. Without drunken camera movements.

Come on the newbies would dare say anything else. Could you imagine the levels of hate they would receive?

None of the other girls are even close to Heather on a dance level.  It's possible to enjoy someone else's performance more, but based on pure dance ability, it's not even a question.

 

I truly believe that the original cast was a huge part of the charm of this show.  The series premiere did pretty well, but the show continued to build throughout that summer and the regular season.  The subsequent mall tour and concert tours the following summers really kicked things off.  And I'm a pretty big fan of Lea, Cory, and Amber, but I do believe that Somebody to Love and the original DSB just wouldn't have been the same without those three.  And really, those two songs were just so huge for the show.

 

The writing got progressively worse, and by S4 was pretty terrible, but the ratings started to further decline when the show became increasingly focused on the new kids.  I don't think that can be argued.  It's not solely because of the new cast or even primarily because of them, but they didn't make an impression with the platform they had.  They didn't manage to build up much of a fan base with the audience that remained during their tenure on the show.  It seemed like their departures didn't create much of an outcry.  

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I just think if that were true at least one other viewer somewhere on the earth who wasn't a parent or sibling of one of those four actors would have cared that they were written off.

 

Only three were written off. Honestly I wasn't that bothered, the show is dying on its arse. I've been embarrassed on behalf of Jenna and Becca given the writing they've had this season.

And if she'd been on Glee Melissa may not have been available for Whiplash or Supergirl and that definitely would be a bad thing.

 

None of the other girls are even close to Heather on a dance level.  It's possible to enjoy someone else's performance more, but based on pure dance ability, it's not even a question.

Heather has no emotional content to her dancing, she moves well but there's nothing behind the eyes, nothing to draw you in. It's what makes her a great backing dancer, she doesn't draw you away from the main attraction.

Having said that I expect Heather to be one of the most successful post glee stars. Hollywood never tires of dumb blondes.

I always found it funny how  Mr Shue congratulated Finn and told the others to look up to him for expressing himself.   Who cares that he was making Rachel completely uncomfortable not to mention she was dating Jessie.  Wonder if Finn would have done that if Jessie were  in he w room?

 

That said I think Cory did a good job with the song and it gave us the name Jessie St James.

 

Not gonna even dissect a  list  of 10 songs when they have done 700+ songs.    People like what they like.

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I always found it funny how  Mr Shue congratulated Finn and told the others to look up to him for expressing himself.   Who cares that he was making Rachel completely uncomfortable not to mention she was dating Jessie.  Wonder if Finn would have done that if Jessie were  in he w room?

 

 

If that was a threshold then almost every single person in that choir room would have to be judged for making another person uncomfortable at one time or another, many a time when the recipient of the serenade was involved with someone else.  As for Rachel/Jessie the last we saw of him before Laryngitis was him storming out on Rachel because of her "Bad Reputation" triple casting.  She wasn't even sure he was going to come back according to what she said in "Dream On."

Edited by camussie
(edited)

If that was a threshold then almost every single person in that choir room would have to be judged for making another person uncomfortable at one time or another, many a time when the recipient of the serenade was involved with someone else.  

 

I just do  not remember Mr Shue congratulating the others.  Two/Ten wrongs doesn't make it right.   No knock at Finn.

 

 

Will: Nice work. Now that, that is the kind of soul-exposing song I was talking about. We should all be inspired by Finn’s bravery. Good job, buddy.

 

Edited by tom87
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Will's point was that Finn was opening himself up and he was.  He knew it was likely Rachel wasn't going to be receptive but he took a chance anyway.  I really don't see what was wrong about that given that they everyone in that Glee club seemed to view the choir room as a place where they could sing their emotions..  Really it is one of the more benign ways for any of them to get it out there.  

 

Also it wasn't like she was engaged to Jessie . They weren't even speaking at the time.  If it made Rachel that uncomfortable she could speak up and much like Finn, Puck, and Jessie all did the week before when she triple cast them.   Back then she was hardly some wilting flower who couldn't stand up for herself.  

Edited by camussie

Will's point was that Finn was opening himself up and he was. He knew it was likely Rachel wasn't going to be receptive but he took a chance anyway. I really don't see what was wrong about that. It wasn't like she was engaged to Jessie. They weren't even speaking at the time. If it made Rachel that uncomfortable she could speak up and say so much like Finn, Puck, and Jessie all did the week before when she triple cast them. Back then she was hardly some wilting flower who couldn't stand up for herself.

During Jesse's Girl Rachel looks mortified. It is Will's job to say something if she doesn't think she can, he's the teacher. And didn't he pull her up for doing Gives You Hell?

Will's point was that Finn was opening himself up and he was.  He knew it was likely Rachel wasn't going to be receptive but he took a chance anyway.  I really don't see what was wrong about that.  It wasn't like she was engaged to Jessie. They weren't even speaking at the time.  If it made Rachel that uncomfortable she could speak up and say so much like Finn, Puck, and Jessie all did the week before when she triple cast them.  Back then she was hardly some wilting flower who couldn't stand up for herself.  

OMG,  I know his point. I just found it funny  that Shue made such an example of it was all.

 

Not a big deal.

(edited)
During Jesse's Girl Rachel looks mortified. It is Will's job to say something if she doesn't think she can, he's the teacher. And didn't he pull her up for doing Gives You Hell?

 

 

By that standard then he should have shut off "Run Joey Run" the week before as it became increasingly obvious during the song all three of the guys were uncomfortable with it yet he let the video play all the way through.  Or he should have stop Kurt's serenade of "A House is not a Home" to Finn because Finn looked uncomfortable during that as well.  Even with "Gives You Hell" Rachel finished it before Will said the song was about "Hello." 

 

Will had his not good moments as a teacher but I don't think letting the kids sing something through was one of them since they all seemed to default to that as a way to get their emotions out of there.  

Edited by camussie

I mean it was clear that Will had a soft spot for Finn.  That was totally inappropriate to compliment Finn on!  Doesn't make the other situations where characters used song to call people out OK, but dude teachers shouldn't encourage that stuff!  

 

Didn't Schue tell Rachel that Gives You Hell was inappropriate?  What did he say when Santana did Trouty Mouth?  I don't think he was like "Wow great example of what everyone should do!"

(edited)

He said to Rachel that the assignment was Hello not Hell.  That was the only thing he said about it.  As for "Trouty Mouth" he said it lacked the heart for a regionals song.  He complimented Puck on "Big Ass Heart" and Mercedes on "Hell to the No" though and he chose Rachel's "Get it Right" for sectionals which was about and dedicated to Finn when he was gasp! dating someone else.  How ever did Finn get through it.  Guess it is okay if Rachel sings a song to him when he is dating someone else.  He also 

 

Seriously people act like Rachel was slinking under her seat in mortification.  She looked a bit uncomfortable and got over it.  Call it karma for the way she played finn, Puck, and Jessie the week prior.  As for why Will complimented Finn - he did the assignment Will asked - he sang something that showed his heart.  

 

And back to my original point.  I think it is ridiculous Jessie's Girl is not on the list even if it apparently was a crime against humanity (or Rachel Berry depending on your definition of humanity) that Will dared to compliment Finn on it.  

Edited by camussie
(edited)

So I assume you also have a problem with Will encouraging Puck/Rachel to do their duet in the Superbowl episode even though Finn was clearly uncomfortable with it before it even started?  He encouraged them both to do something everyone in that room knew would make a fellow glee clubber extremely uncomfortable. 

 

If I had to name my top 10 Glee performances, Jessie's Girl wouldn't be on there. I'm not sure it would even make the top 25. I think I've Gotta Be Me is my favorite Finn number. It wasn't like a big character moment, or a big show stopper, but I think Cory was great and so enthusiastic during that one, and it always made me smile watching it.

 

 

I liked "I Gotta to Be More" as well but I also think Jessie's Girl is one of the better known Glee songs.  It was a real "star making" moment for Cory/Finn in S1  much like "Don't Rain my Parade" was for Lea/Rachel.

Edited by camussie

I do know Stevie Nicks of Fleetwood Mac fame really liked Glee's version of "Jessie's Girl."

Cory's delivery is wonderful. I think my problem is with the song itself. The girl in the song never get so much as a name she's more of an object than anything.

I was never a fan of any of the choir room performances that had someone squirming in their seat.

Will also said nothing when Blaine sang 'It's Not Right But It's Okay' to Kurt in the Whitney episode.

That song certainly made Kurt uncomfortable and Will darn well knew it: Will even turned to look at Kurt when Blaine stated that the song was for "anyone who has been cheated on" and Kurt protested that he didn't cheat on him.

 

And I'm sure there are more examples of song being allowed in the choir room by Will that made one or several of the kids feel uncomfortable.

 

Lol, I suddenly remember Finchel's inappropiate but totally awesome 'Born Again' in Duets, and how everyone's face was just WTF?!?

And I'm sure there are more examples of song being allowed in the choir room by Will that made one or several of the kids feel uncomfortable.

I really hated those, but found it hilarious when someone was completely pissed off. Especially early Santana when Puck is serenading another girl. Also Rachel for no apparent reason during Forget You.

Guys, guys, let's be fair here; Will is the master of approving inappropriate songs, no matter who it was. Remember when Ricky Martin came on for one episode and sang "Sexy and I Know It" to a bunch of teenagers? And Will never said a word? Oh, good times, good times...except not, because it totally made Will's character look like a dumbass who can't teach Spanish. But...other than that, good times! :)

 

As inappropriate as Jessie's Girl was, that was one of Cory's best songs. It was also back in season 1, when the show wasn't taking itself seriously and it was made to be almost like black humor.  Also, I do think back to when Rachel sang "Gives you Hell" directly to Finn WITH EVERYONE JUMPING UP TO JOIN HER. Sure, Will berated her for not singing about Hello, but he never stopped her and, you know, plot reasons. But yeah, I agree that Will's encouragement of the song was...odd.

(edited)

From the 610 thread:

 

 

 

I'm trying to think what character SL was better served by giving Glee a 6th season and not ending with the finale of Season 5.

 

Still trying to find one.

 

Just from a character (and not shipping) standpoint, I'm glad for the abuela resolution they gave Santana. They started that 3+ years ago, and it finally got resolved. And not even with a nice perfect bow, which I think is more realistic. Her grandmother realizes that she made a mistake, but she's still not going to be the Grand Marshall at the Lima gay pride parade just yet either. So, I'm glad for that. 

Edited by Ceeg
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True, and considering that there was no Santana at the end of Season 5, her back in 4 episodes for the last season was a positive. 

 

Back when I gave a crap, I would have loved to see what Santana's journey showed about  her ultimate passion, because the arts and all, but that ship left a long time ago.

Edited by caracas1914

I wouldn't call being stuck with a child for a wife at 20 a win.

 

She seems happy so.

 

Brittany suffers from various characterizations, one minute she's a toddler, the next she's a misunderstood quirky genius. Since getting back together with Santana, she's been the latter IMO. When they write Brittany with Santana, they write her a LOT better than when she's with a guy.

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(edited)

I think it's a "win" by Glee low standards that she had a SL resolved in that Santana had scenes with several characters leading both to her marriage and a truce with her Abuela.

Hell , she even got some song spotlight for her 4 appearances.

Santana onscreen was able to actually address issues with several people and interact with them.

Even those with more SL, namely Rachel, Sam and Blaine were all thrown under the bus character wise in comparison.

Now with Mercedes, Artie, Kurt, Quinn, Puck and Tina and how badly they've been neglected, yea, I'd call it a Santana win.

Edited by caracas1914
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She seems happy so.

Brittany suffers from various characterizations, one minute she's a toddler, the next she's a misunderstood quirky genius. Since getting back together with Santana, she's been the latter IMO. When they write Brittany with Santana, they write her a LOT better than when she's with a guy.

This.

Also, what you said about Abuela. I mean, her whole cluelessness about her future never got tied up (minus a line about going to college out of the blue). But considering what they've done to everyone else who has had more screen time, I'm ok with that and I'll head canon her future.

She seems happy so.

 

Brittany suffers from various characterizations, one minute she's a toddler, the next she's a misunderstood quirky genius. Since getting back together with Santana, she's been the latter IMO. When they write Brittany with Santana, they write her a LOT better than when she's with a guy.

I love Santana with people who make her use her brains, and I don't necessarily mean that in a romantic sense. It's one of the reasons I like her being friends with Kurt and Quinn. Brittany doesn't do that, I feel she drags her down, she encouraged her to drop out, to leave New York, they now appear to be a couple of jobless losers.

Now with Mercedes, Artie, Kurt, Quinn, Puck and Tina and how badly they've been neglected, yea, I'd call it a Santana win.

I think Quinn did okay, she's at Yale, and I imagine Puck will be her boyfriend for a few years.

Puck did okay apart from forgetting about his family!

At least they got left with their self-respect which is more than I can say for Tina, Mercedes or Kurt.

(edited)

I love Santana with people who make her use her brains, and I don't necessarily mean that in a romantic sense. It's one of the reasons I like her being friends with Kurt and Quinn. Brittany doesn't do that, I feel she drags her down, she encouraged her to drop out, to leave New York, they now appear to be a couple of jobless losers.

 

Brittany encouraged Santana to stop fucking around with Rachel's head and to take some time to figure out what she wants in life. Santana's dream wasn't Broadway. I'm still not sure why they even did that whole dumb plotline, other than to create a rift between Rachel and Santana, because before FG Santana never expressed any sort of desire for Broadway. In fact, she made fun of Rachel and Kurt for wanting to be there. And there's nothing wrong with being in school at 20-21 years old. 

 

Also, jobless losers? Nah. They're going back to school, Santana is still a working actress/performer, and Brittany has a webseries on a national television network.

Edited by Ceeg
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Is it? We know she has no connection to reality and other characters never appear in these scenes. No-one corroborates it.

 

Well, we know for sure that she scored the highest SAT score in McKinley history. Sue and Sam were both in that scene. It's true that no one else was in her MIT scenes, but given that they take place in Boston away from everyone, plus her SAT score, plus the fact that she did leave high school early, plus her always doing insane math problems/chess/whatever that S1-S4 Brittany would have never done, I'd say the MIT thing was legit.

 

We also know that she had a legion of Latino fans asking for her autograph immediately after she aired an episode of Fondue for Two (which Santana watched) where she said Univision bought 2 seasons of the show.

 

Just because it's unrealistic, doesn't mean it isn't canon. It's Glee. Everything is unrealistic.

Edited by Ceeg
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