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scrb

By scrb
in Turn: Washington's Spies [V]

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ganesh
ganesh

This is the singular, worst device in all of television ever. If you feel the need to insert a love triangle, then you're just not talented enough to write dramatic television.   "You know what woul

OakGoblinFly
OakGoblinFly

Spy things + war things = interesting episodes   Love triangles + whiny Abe = boring episodes   More Ben + more Andre = good   More will they they get caught having an affair + I can't disappoin

bosawks
bosawks

Please, please, please let Anna embrace the spying and not Abe!

t7686

t7686

I'm really into this show so far. I think the first three episodes were a bit too slow though. I let the episodes build up on my DVR for a while but now that I've binge watched episodes 4-7 -I like where it's going. Though the love triange is a pain. She's married, you're married, get over it already. Anyway just curious how it's doing in the ratings so far. Hopeful for season 2?

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OakGoblinFly

OakGoblinFly

I'm really into this show so far. I think the first three episodes were a bit too slow though. I let the episodes build up on my DVR for a while but now that I've binge watched episodes 4-7 -I like where it's going. Though the love triange is a pain. She's married, you're married, get over it already. Anyway just curious how it's doing in the ratings so far. Hopeful for season 2?

 

 

If there is a season two I would like to see a few tweaks ... less Abe-Anna soap opera drama, more Ben & Caleb, more spy stuff, more war stuff, more Andre, and more Ben.

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ComeWhatMay

ComeWhatMay

Sooooo? Does this mean there will be a second season?

I sure hope so. The article is getting people ginned up for one & I would hope the network would have given those involved in the show some sign if they weren't coming back so all involved could book other jobs & not have the EP out there discussing what will never be.

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ganesh

ganesh

They need this to be a summer show if it is renewed. Going against Game of Thrones is ludicrous. Unless they do some ad campaign like, watch Game of Thrones and record Turn, then watch the real game against the throne! 

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OakGoblinFly

OakGoblinFly

They need this to be a summer show if it is renewed. Going against Game of Thrones is ludicrous. Unless they do some ad campaign like, watch Game of Thrones and record Turn, then watch the real game against the throne! 

 

Very true - also it wouldn't hurt to get the stars out and promoting the show.  Jamie Bell, Seth Numrich, and JJ Fields are articulate and charismatic; I think they would do well on the talk show circuit.

 

 

I have to say the comment below make me worried about some of the stuff we might see in season 2 (if there truly is one):

 

 

What else are you really looking forward to exploring in Season 2?

 

The twisting path that Simcoe and Robert Rogers take, and the idea that Mary has sort of gotten what she wants, and Abe has been forced to move into Whitehall, his father's place. Abe, Hewlett, his father and Mary are all under the same roof eating together and sleeping in the same house. I think that's going to create a more "Downton [Abbey]"-y kind of tension.

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bosawks

bosawks

 

Abe, Hewlett, his father and Mary are all under the same roof eating together and sleeping in the same house. I think that's going to create a more "Downton [Abbey]"-y kind of tension.

 

I think they would be better served by creating a lot more, I don't know, Revolutionary War-y kind of tension.........

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OakGoblinFly

OakGoblinFly

Spy things + war things = interesting episodes

 

Love triangles + whiny Abe = boring episodes

 

More Ben + more Andre = good

 

More will they they get caught having an affair + I can't disappoint my dad = bad

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green

green

... Abe has been forced to move into Whitehall, his father's place. Abe, Hewlett, his father and Mary are all under the same roof eating together and sleeping in the same house. I think that's going to create a more "Downton [Abbey]"-y kind of tension.

 

If there is a Season 2 and this is it count me O-U-T !!!

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EyewatchTV211

EyewatchTV211

When I read the article, I took that to only be a small part of their future storylines.  It sounded to me like there would also be a lot more spying next season.  Stuff with John Andre in Philly, and Abigail with him.  Interesting stuff with Simcoe and Robert Rogers as they start to follow Simcoe's actual history.  More presence of George Washington and introducing Benedict Arnold.  And this:  

 

How will the stakes rise in Season 2?

The information, the intelligence from the Culper Ring actually begins to pay off big dividends. It's the thing that keeps the Continental Army alive at certain times. Showing that is going to be really fun, because they go on some missions, and some of those missions are ones that people may remember from your history books in terms of the battles. To see how the Culper Ring was instrumental in turning the tide one way or the other with their intelligence I think's pretty exciting. They play at a much higher level than Season 1.

 

The article actually got me excited.  

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OakGoblinFly

OakGoblinFly

When I read the article, I took that to only be a small part of their future storylines.  It sounded to me like there would also be a lot more spying next season.  Stuff with John Andre in Philly, and Abigail with him.  Interesting stuff with Simcoe and Robert Rogers as they start to follow Simcoe's actual history.  More presence of George Washington and introducing Benedict Arnold.  And this:  

 

The article actually got me excited.  

 

 

With John Andre in Philadelphia I wonder if that means we'll meet Peggy Shippen; that could be interesting.

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Hanahope

Hanahope

Well, hopefully they will take Sara's advice to heart.  We can only hope.  I will miss her recaps and the checklist though.  I loved looking out for "Jersey's crapped on before it was even a state!"

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attica

attica

I'm a bit surprised given the ratings, but maybe time-shifting has once again worked its magic. I'm still in, although I won't at all be shy about liberal ff-usage for the soapier stuff. Moar spy!

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

I'm a bit surprised given the ratings, but maybe time-shifting has once again worked its magic. I'm still in, although I won't at all be shy about liberal ff-usage for the soapier stuff. Moar spy!

 

Well, the article says that the show gets about 2 million viewers, so I guess as a Walking Dead/Summer replacement show, AMC is happy with that.

 

I agree - Moar Spy! and --> more John Andre, more Ben Tallmadge, more Simcoe, more Hewett, more Brewster, more Abigail and even more Selah! Just less of the love-quadangle/romantic angst, etc. We get it - Abe you're torn. I do think they will move away from it, since it's been mostly established now, the conflict with Abe.

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Ujio

Ujio

attica, on 23 Jun 2014 - 1:16 PM, said:

 

I'm still in, although I won't at all be shy about liberal ff-usage for the soapier stuff. Moar spy!

 

And Ben!! (Because I'm shallow)

 

And Andre!  (Because I'm shallow, too...)

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Kabota

Kabota

So rumor has it that filming begins in September with an April air date set?

I'm curious as to how they will handle the expanding cast. We may lose a character or 2, or some may get relegated to more background duty, but they're already juggling a good lot. Hopefully, they take heed to buzz, and keep the right ones at the forefront. I assume they will have to expand the Culper Ring to eventually include

Rivington and Culper, Jr.

. Then, again, I wonder if they might not composite some of these rl characters, such as

Roe and Hawkins

with already introduced ones?

As filming gets closer, will we be able to have threads for spoilers and spec without spoilers?

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green

green

Excellent News!

 

TURN renewed for Season 2 - 10 episodes in total.

 

http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/06/amc-renews-turn-for-season-2/

 

Season 2 will air Spring 2015.  (ugh, so far away...I guess they have to write and film them. Also I think it will once again take over for The Walking Dead).

 

If by "it" you mean Abe then that seems about right.  Can't tell him apart from the walking dead at this point anyway.  I mean man what a totally boring character he might as well be shambling around dead.  Of course I don't think walking dead are into as much self-indulgence and pissing on their family not having any any more.

 

OT: Why is this still in the active FORUM as well every other show on hiatus but Vikings has been "disappeared" into the backlot of long ago cancelled/past shows?  Yeah I harp on this but Vikings deserves better.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

If by "it" you mean Abe then that seems about right.  Can't tell him apart from the walking dead at this point anyway.  I mean man what a totally boring character he might as well be shambling around dead.  Of course I don't think walking dead are into as much self-indulgence and pissing on their family not having any any more.

 

This comment is hilarious! Though he's not that bad - just too much family drama. But like others here have said, apparently the real Abe Woodhull was whiny also,

so there you are.

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Kabota

Kabota

(edited)

So, regarding the latest Silverstein interview...Already, really tired of the Downton Abbey quip. Let's try this....show some procuring of information (or misinformation!), then the transfer of said info. Show Washington and Co. deciphering and analyzing how best to use this knowledge. Depict how the stolen information IS used, whether in battle, raids, misleading the enemy, etc. Show us the the other side doing the same! Up the intrigue and the consequences -- that's a spy show!

The DA references also scare me because in that show, many of the characters I came to care about or found interesting in the first season, have spent the last few being shafted plot wise. Smh. Afraid for that here. On a positive note, glad they're moving forward to include Arnold, Peggy Shippen, and Hamilton, though.

Eta: And on the topic of adding new characters...I guess it worries me that it sounds so fly by the seat of our pants. He talks about how they already have such a large cast, jokingly killing off characters -- but not Washington! -- and having no really fixed end point. It seems to me that the origin material is so promising, that if tightly executed, it couldn't fail to be compelling. But at times, it sounds like tptb still don't really know what show they want to make. Hope my skepticism is proved unfounded and they find the right balance of human interest and action.

Edited by Kabota
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OakGoblinFly

OakGoblinFly

No, no, no to Downton Abby.  I thought the show was fine the first season and then it went of the rails pretty quickly.  Now it is just Days of Our Lives with British accents and better homes; all manufactured drama for the sake of drama.

 

I don't know why the powers-that-be feel the need to get into soap opera territory.  One would think that following an up-start nation as it takes on a world super power, and following the intrigues of spy-craft would be enough "drama" - I don't need to deal with family issues between Abe, Richard, Mary, and the mistress.

 

Please stick with Ben trying to match wits with Andre while each tries to turn the tide to their side.

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Iboatedhere

Iboatedhere

http://www.lsa.umich.edu/lsa/ci.lsagradsmakeinterestingspies_ci.detail

An interview with writer/creator Mitch Akselrad that confirms that the show they originally set out to write, based on Rose's book, isn't what they ended up making. So...yeah...

It hurts me every time I read about how Ben was supposed to be the main character and then it kills me when I read that he's too simple of a character. It should be about him and Caleb and Washington, Simcoe, John Andre, Robert Rogers, Abigail, Anna, Selah....pretty much anyone but Abe so long as he's carrying that torch for Anna. Take that part away and he's not so bad.

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OakGoblinFly

OakGoblinFly

Too simple??  How is the man who helped to win the Revolutionary War by matching wits with British intelligence agents too simple?

 

And Abe was "so" complex that the powers that be had to invent a wife and a mistress to make the television version "interesting."

 

I don't get it - why must leads be "complex" with "conflicted" motivations?  Why can't a lead have a clear motivation and then the "complexity" come from trying to achieve a specific goal?

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EyewatchTV211

EyewatchTV211

Kind of ironic that they chose Abe as the main character to be more "interesting," yet so many people are clamoring for more Ben (which they wouldn't have if he was the main character) and fine Abe to be too boring.

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OakGoblinFly

OakGoblinFly

(edited)

I don't think Abe is boring as much as he is poorly written (and bless Jamie Bell for making the most out of a sow's ear).  I think Abe would have been okay as the lead if the powers-that-be didn't invent the love triangle.  I think Abe's story is compelling enough without inventing a mistress - I can live with the invented wife as personalizes the danger a bit more.

 

Still, I wish that the powers-that-be stuck with the focus being around Tallmadge and his battles with Andre.

Edited by OakGoblinFly
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ganesh

ganesh

 

I think Abe would have been okay as the lead if the powers-that-be didn't invent the love triangle.

This is the singular, worst device in all of television ever. If you feel the need to insert a love triangle, then you're just not talented enough to write dramatic television.

 

"You know what would make the story of rebel colonists going up against the most powerful nation on the planet really interesting? A love triangle." "zomg brilliant! That's *never* done on tv."

 

There wasn't anyone in the room who said, "guys? no." TPTBs on shows, I swear, don't know a damn thing about tv watching. 

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angelwoody

angelwoody

I missed this during it's initial run, but am a sucker period pieces.  I looked at the listing of shows on AMC on demand and it's not available.  I was unable to find it on Netflix or Amazon Prime either.  Is there anywhere to catch the first season of this?

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Iboatedhere

Iboatedhere

I missed this during it's initial run, but am a sucker period pieces.  I looked at the listing of shows on AMC on demand and it's not available.  I was unable to find it on Netflix or Amazon Prime either.  Is there anywhere to catch the first season of this?

According to AMC's website they're going to be showing it after Hell On Wheels on Saturdays at 10 starting August 2nd.

 

I can't wait to watch it again especially since I spent the first few episodes solely trying to figure out who everyone was.  

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angelwoody

angelwoody

According to AMC's website they're going to be showing it after Hell On Wheels on Saturdays at 10 starting August 2nd.

 

I can't wait to watch it again especially since I spent the first few episodes solely trying to figure out who everyone was.  

Great!  Thanks for the tip, I'm going to set my DVR.

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green

green

(edited)

According to AMC's website they're going to be showing it after Hell On Wheels on Saturdays at 10 starting August 2nd.

 

I can't wait to watch it again especially since I spent the first few episodes solely trying to figure out who everyone was.  

 

They made it helpful this time but subtitling the series "Washington's Spies" so there is that, hah.  Guess Turn is a pretty dumb title when you think about it. Imagine someone scrolling through their live TV channel guide and seeing simply Turn listed.  Not a title that makes one want to quickly click over to check out.

 

Of course at this point any title wouldn't make me click over and re-watch the "Abe is a wimpy whiner all season long" snooze fest.  They missed totally on what could have been an interesting series by focusing on him and ignoring their interesting characters.  Plus I don't much care for the actor playing the lead either.  Leads need to have presence.  Sorry but this guy puts me to sleep. 

 

So good luck to those re-watching the series.  You guys have way more patience then me with this series.  And stronger eyelids to stay awake through the endless Abe scenes of artificial angst.

Edited by green
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Iboatedhere

Iboatedhere

They ran a short prologue video before the repeat of the pilot last night. Basic info to set up the story- the British have taken New York City, Washington and his army are in retreat, mercenary Robert Rogers had just defeated a platoon of revolutionaries; there were no survivors, except one (cut to Ben opening his eyes in that field of death). 

 

It made the show look awesome. I would watch the shit out of that show. Too bad the season didn't follow that tone. But I'm optimistic for next season. Maybe along with the more defined name we'll get a more defined show. Why name it Washington's Spies if there's no spying? 

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

So as we all know, TURN has been renewed for a second season, for another 10 episodes. The show will come back sometimes Spring 2015 (so long...)

 

Right now, AMC is reairing the season on Saturdays at 10:00 pm, for those who want to watch again or get caught up. (well, at least in Canada, anyway)
 

They made it helpful this time but subtitling the series "Washington's Spies"

 

I thought that was interesting but also at the same time, it's the name of the book the series is based on. I'm reading it right now. Actually, the book is called "Washington's Spies: The Story of America's First Spy Ring" - by Alexander Rose. Interesting book actually, really delves into Tallmadge, Woodhull and Washington's frustration with the whole spy enterprise. Things I found amusing is that Anna and Selah Strong are barely talked about, as is John Graves Simcoe. Also, one paragraph of text in the book was expanded into a complete episode of the show - on two separate occasions. I thought that amusing.

It's a very good book though - I highly recommend.

 

For those history buffs: This site actually expands and "corrects" the history presented in TURN. TURN to a Historian

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Kabota

Kabota

(edited)

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/mentalist-star-play-benedict-arnold-732393?mobile_redirect=false

So, apparently, we have a very tall Benedict Arnold. The actor, Owain Yeoman, is Welsh and has an inch or two on Samuel Roukin. I know, I know...I've got to get over this historical accuracy thing! (Or do I?!)

eta: A couple more articles have surfaced that stress he is being listed as a series regular, and not recurring, character. It does make you wonder about the time frame they will go with, though. Arnold's defection was a slow, two steps forward, one step back process, so I can see them wanting to speed things up, particularly since there's no guarantee of a third season. But in doing so, how are they going to balance the true history and creative license? They seemed rather lost in this dilemma during the first season. This is such an iconic historical moment that it seems to demand a true treatment, but there's still room for speculation, I guess. As for the Culper Ring's involvement in the shakedown,

there are several legends and theories, but no really hard and fast substantiation, beyond Tallmadge's involvement in the detention of Andre.

So, it will be interesting to see how they play things out.

Edited by Kabota
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OakGoblinFly

OakGoblinFly

From SpoilerTV: 

 

Solo will play Peggy Shippen, who hails from one of the richest families in the capital of Philadelphia who is well-versed in politics, foreign affairs and finance. Both an urban sophisticate and a homebody of sorts, she is devoted to her family, particularly to her father Edward, becoming his favorite despite being the youngest of four daughters. Peggy navigates the complications of the family's pro-British politics in the patriot capital. In doing so she demonstrates a quality uncommon for her background: sacrifice. Peggy heroically sacrifices her happiness for the cause she believes in and the man she loves and eventually marries: Benedict Arnold.

 

 

No, just no.

 

Firstly the Shippen family was not "pro-British" they were neutral believing the Colonists had legitimate grievances with England, yet believing those grievances could be worked out if all parties were willing to compromise.  

 

Peggy Shippen didn't sacrifice her happiness for anything and the cause she believed in was money, power, and status.  She was known to be a huge flirt (to put it mildly) and socialized with British officers (notably John Andre) during the occupation of Philadelphia. And while she was indeed intelligent, she was also snobbish, vain, petty, and spoiled (famously throwing a temper tantrum when her father refused to let her attend a ball in honor of General Howe). 

 

And that's not even taking into the account her role in Arnold's turning traitor. 

 

 

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Kabota

Kabota

(edited)

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/10/01/amc-revolutionary-war-drama-turn-washingtons-spies-begins-production-on-season-two-in-colonial-williamsburg/309565/

Via press release, detailing filming sites for the second season, among other things. This struck me as interesting:

The series is based on the book “Washington’s Spies,” written by Alexander Rose, who joins the writing staff for season two after serving as a consultant in the first season.

Edited by Kabota
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