Santa Barbara - General Discussion

[Bali]

15 hours ago, cleo said:

I'm on 891. Totes agree Sophia would never have hired someone to cause trouble like that.

If I look past that and also her being angry at CC for some inexplicable reason it's not a bad story.

ETA would have loved a Sophia CC Lionel triangle.

 

 

I spent a bit of time last night thinking about this. (Was trying to block out hubby's snoring.) I think I have figured out why she was so angry. The last love scene where she is sitting at the dressing table and he walks in behind her. He doesn't even see that she's in the room. He eventually does, and she mentions that they haven't made love in weeks. There are also other hints that he has completely ignored her in scenes that we never get to see. He is so absent, she thinks he's having an affair. Then she finds out he's spending time with his ex, and not being up front about it. And then the final straw is when he says starting tonight, I'll make up for it all and then stands her up. (BTW-fully on her side about the anger over that incident. He should have brought her flowers and jewelry instead of forgetting her AGAIN). Unfortunately, it was all so rushed that it was poorly executed. I wish TPTB had comprehended that some stories work better when they are slow. I think this would have been one of those cases. It was just Bam you're married. Bam you're ignored. Bam you assume he's having an affair. Bam you sleep with a guy young enough to have a mullet.

[cleo]

Having watched more of it, they really kind of destroyed her character. Like her sleeping with TJ in CCs bed yuck. 

- Scott seems like an awful character. I ff through a lot of his scenes but he always seems pissed and judgmental. 

- Cruz and Eden's story since end of 87 is just garbage, I couldn't sit through it.

This had always been the problem with SB. They have characters in stories just completely divorced from everyone. Before it was always Kelly. They couldn't integrate the stories.

Like when GH had action/adventure stories they did a much better job of integrating it.

[Bali]

19 hours ago, cleo said:

Having watched more of it, they really kind of destroyed her character. Like her sleeping with TJ in CCs bed yuck. 

- Scott seems like an awful character. I ff through a lot of his scenes but he always seems pissed and judgmental. 

- Cruz and Eden's story since end of 87 is just garbage, I couldn't sit through it.

This had always been the problem with SB. They have characters in stories just completely divorced from everyone. Before it was always Kelly. They couldn't integrate the stories.

Like when GH had action/adventure stories they did a much better job of integrating it.

Yeah, they did Sophia a big injustice. It was just weird. 

I'm eh about Scott.

I miss Lionel something fierce. 

You're right about the bubbles. When Johnny was missing,  Sophia mentioned it, but there were no scenes with her and Brick. 

The righteous Cruz underestimating Keith was annoying to watch. Cruz should (and WOULD) have known better. 

I'm not as much of a fan of JFP as I ahould be because her reign is starting off rocky.

[cleo]

@Bali so it was Dobsons left around fall 1987 and JFP started? 

Except I thought JFP was around in the beginning. But I don't know the exec changes very well. 

[Hiyo]

The JFP era was from December 1987 to August 1990. The Dobsons return, joined by Paul Rauch, in June 1991. John Conboy handled the show on his own during that interim period after being co-EP with JFP starting from March to August 1990.

 

 

[cleo]

Thanks. I can keep the actors coming and going pretty clear in my mind but always get confused by the rest. 

[Bali]

On 2/25/2022 at 3:12 PM, Hiyo said:

The JFP era was from December 1987 to August 1990. The Dobsons return, joined by Paul Rauch, in June 1991. John Conboy handled the show on his own during that interim period after being co-EP with JFP starting from March to August 1990.

 

 

Yes. Thanks because I get confused too. Also isn't there a brief period in 87 when the Dobsons were still there, but JFP was an executive producer? 

[Bali]

Cleo, I agree. My favorite episodes have interwoven characters. Can we talk about Christmas of 87? Gina and all of those noisy birds had me rolling. Then she made the quip about hoping the next doorbell wasn't the lords a leaping. That is something I think EVERY time I hear that stupid song- who wants a bunch of women milking cows in their living room? 

Then, we have Sophia finally FINALLY shoving that pie in Pamelayuck's face. 

And then the awkward caroling scene. There stands Sophia surrounded by her husband, her former lover, and her future lover. Only in Santa Barbara 

[cleo]

I think I skipped a lot of that- all of the Christmas stuff although I did see the pie scene. I used to skip a ton of Gina's scenes, I've just started watching a bit more but 1988.

No sympathy for Pamela, but that kind of act with the pie seemed really out of tone for the show. I guess very early on there was the fight between Sophia and Augusta, and Eden throwing paint at Gina, but those were like the first or second year. 

All I had seen of Pamela before was the infamous dinner in 91, so it's interesting seeing her whole story. I don't know if they always intended her to be batshit crazy but it's not hard seeing the continuity - she never seems fully mentally stable, at least not once MD came on.

[Bali]

I don't think the return of Pamelayuck did any favors for the character of CC either. They turned him into an idiot who suddenly couldn't see through Pamelayuck. And who refused to listen as his wife said, You're lying. I know it. And you're ignoring me.

Yes, Augusta kidnapped Sophia. And they got into a fight. I can't remember who started it. I just remember that Sophia didn't take too kindly to being kidnapped. So she probably threw the first punch? 

There was construction at the Capwell’s and Eden allowed paint to get dumped on Gina's head. 

[Bali]

Mason is adorable with his reactions to Samantha. 

[Hiyo]

RIP Mitchell Ryan. Though probably more famous for other roles, he did appear on this show in 1990.

 

[cleo]

Yeah I watched some of the episodes recently. 

So I'm normally really OCD about my tv viewing, I don't bounce around a lot but last night I indulged and watched the first half of the Capwell dinner with Marj Dusay. 

It was interesting seeing how she played the character vs how she played her in 88 which is where I'm at now. It actually seemed really different. I had never seen most of SB's original run- I started sometime in 1990. I'm not sure exactly when but MD had left. 

Right now I'm watching 88 for the first time and the only thing I like about it is the storylines with MD bc the stuff with C/E is crap, not into Scott, etc. 

I guess I've been trying to see the flow from how she was in 88 to her being crazy in 91, though I still haven't seen all of 88- I'm only at the part where Kelly finds out she's pregnant. 

Anyway other thoughts- 

-Lisa is present. I loved this storyline (except the ending) as a teen. But like it or hate it, I just feel like MW is a phenomenal actress. There are scenes where she has no dialogue, but her expression just changes subtly and you can tell she has changed. I was totally captivated by MW as a teen lol. I also didn't like my mother so that's probably why heh.

- GT- I know LD is one of a kind, and he brought a vulnerability to the role that I don't think GT could. But GT was a very good actor, and I'm fine with his version of Mason. 

Does anyone know who would have written those episodes, the Capwell Dinner? I'll probably watch the second half tonight. 

[Hiyo]

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I guess I've been trying to see the flow from how she was in 88 to her being crazy in 91, though I still haven't seen all of 88

You'll get there soon enough I imagine...

[WendyCR72]

17 hours ago, cleo said:

Does anyone know who would have written those episodes, the Capwell Dinner? I'll probably watch the second half tonight. 

This interview with former writer Michele Val Jean (who later wrote Liz Webber's rape story on GH), says she was writing for Santa Barbara from 1991 until the show's end in 1993, so I think she may have had a hand in helping to write the Capwell Dinner scenes.

I think I read she now writes for The Bold and the Beautiful. Or did. Not sure if she is still there or not.

[Hiyo]

She still does.

[Hiyo]

Cool fact: Michele made television history when she was named the first black person to serve as head writer of a daytime drama.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Hiyo

[cleo]

I skip a lot of Gina and Keith scenes. They're entertaining but I can only take small doses.

But I've been watching more as it gets close to the time where they get married and Keith trying to get her to marry him for months is both funny and kind of sweet.

Now she has agreed to marry him and he tries to get a hooker for his bachelor party and can't do it. He goes home drunk to Gina and is talking about how he only wants her with a house and a white picket fence and how he is making himself sick lol.

Like they are awful but what a great/funny couple. Totally suited together and the actors really worked well together. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by cleo

[Hiyo]

Yeah, the 2 of them had great chemistry together. They were definitely a couple I loved to hate.

[Bali]

Man 88 is PAINFUL!! i just started the most dangerous game rip-off. Because what I want is to see Cruz get hunted instead of a Goodbye to Pearl! And I really don't remember Cain yelling as much as he did. How did the actor keep from loosing his voice? And TJ keeps talking. He's so much better when he's just looking hunky. He certainly has no problem going after married women. It took less than a week to go from Sophia to Kelly. 

[cleo]

Was there a goodbye to Pearl? I think I'm on his last ep or it's coming up. I thought he just disappeared.

I have more of a problem with TJ and Kelly than TJ and Sophia. Just gross. But I have never been a Kelly fan.

I can't watch Andrea's scenes bc it's a crappy story and also I think it's crappy they how they killed her off.

Edited April 12, 2022 by cleo

[Bali]

Cruz and Eden were trying to help Mason. Eden said, I can't believe that we can't find Pearl. Cruz says, that's just the way he is. He's probably off to (I can't remember which foreign nation.) And that's the end of Pearl.

My TJ issue is the grossness of going straight from mom to daughter without blinking. It's just a gross person that does that. Ew

I loved the Ali Walker and never missed the Profiler. So, I'm not looking forward to her death. But it is a horrible storyline. It's harder to ff with my phone,  so I just let the bad stories run. Then internally whine about them. Or I come here. 

Btw- I'm at the begiing of June and Eden is still struggling to get pregnant. So, does she just have the shortest pregnancy in the history of soaps? I know there's at least another month of angst over the fact that she wants to get pregant. Her pregnancy must have the same time magic that makes kids become teens when they go to Summer camp. 

 

[Hiyo]

Quote

My TJ issue is the grossness of going straight from mom to daughter without blinking. It's just a gross person that does that. Ew

True, but perfectly normal on soaps.

[Bali]

2 hours ago, Hiyo said:

True, but perfectly normal on soaps.

Ick. Double Ick. And icky yicky poo

[cleo]

2 hours ago, Hiyo said:

True, but perfectly normal on soaps.

Yep, I think the worse I've seen was Reva on GL sleeping with the father and 2 sons lol. But totally normal on soaps. 

3 hours ago, Bali said:

tw- I'm at the begiing of June and Eden is still struggling to get pregnant. So, does she just have the shortest pregnancy in the history of soaps?

Yeah you're ahead of me. I'm on April I think. Usually it's the opposite- I felt like Victoria was pregnant for 10 or 11 months. Same with Julia. 

Eden/Mason/Julia are my favourite characters but Eden's storylines in 1988 are beyond awful so far. 

 

[Hiyo]

Quote

Yep, I think the worse I've seen was Reva on GL sleeping with the father and 2 sons lol. But totally normal on soaps. 

Bold and the Beautiful probably trumps them all, with it's small cast. Eric slept with Beth and married two of her daughters (and had 2 kids with one of them). I'm still hoping against hope he scores the ultimate hat trick and sleeps with third daughter Katie...

[cleo]

Ok so they have a goodbye party for Jake and nothing for Pearl. Very spiteful.

I read Robert Thaler's Interview on that French site and he said he didn't want to renew his contract, he didn't like the head writer at the time, and so they didn't like that and then wrote him out with no goodbye or followup.

Spiteful. Also a disservice to the fans. Pearl was by no means my favourite character but he had a role on the show, he was there for a long time. Certainly more meaningful than Jake! 

So that is annoying to just have him disappear forever and no one cares! 

I also didn't/don't like how they sidelined and got rid of Cain in 1988, the actor worked well with the rest of the cast, I'm sure they could have come up with something other than  the endless war stories or whatever that I skip.

I have been enjoying the storyline with Pamela and the Hal Clark storyline. I totally buy CC could kill someone accidentally. I'm not really into when it turns into Mark's body, but I only saw very few bits of that in the past.

Edited April 18, 2022 by cleo

[Bali]

On 4/17/2022 at 10:12 PM, cleo said:

Ok so they have a goodbye party for Jake and nothing for Pearl. Very spiteful.

I read Robert Thaler's Interview on that French site and he said he didn't want to renew his contract, he didn't like the head writer at the time, and so they didn't like that and then wrote him out with no goodbye or followup.

Spiteful. Also a disservice to the fans. Pearl was by no means my favourite character but he had a role on the show, he was there for a long time. Certainly more meaningful than Jake! 

So that is annoying to just have him disappear forever and no one cares! 

I also didn't/don't like how they sidelined and got rid of Cain in 1988, the actor worked well with the rest of the cast, I'm sure they could have come up with something other than  the endless war stories or whatever that I skip.

I have been enjoying the storyline with Pamela and the Hal Clark storyline. I totally buy CC could kill someone accidentally. I'm not really into when it turns into Mark's body, but I only saw very few bits of that in the past.

Cruz's throwaway line about That's just Pearl. One day he's there and the next he's gone is MORE than they gave LIONEL! LIONEL!!!

I'm missing him so much right now. No way Lionel would not say goodbye. He would never not be there for Julia when Mason died. And he would be making sure Sophia was okay too. Lionel just vanished.

[cleo]

Yeah that is true. I never really noticed it with Lionel bc I ff all his scenes with Caroline, Jane, etc. So when he actually disappeared I didn't notice it as much. 

[Bali]

21 hours ago, cleo said:

Yeah that is true. I never really noticed it with Lionel bc I ff all his scenes with Caroline, Jane, etc. So when he actually disappeared I didn't notice it as much. 

I was watching the Caroline scenes trying to figure out when Nicolas Coster had full memory loss. He said it was during the Caroline storyline. They covered it very well though. Right now, I desperately miss Lionel. I'll take Lionel and Caroline over angry Scott, angry Cain anyday. 

I'm blanking on the actor who played Cain. But having him play an essentially one note character was a disservice. I've seen him in several other things and he is a charismatic versatile actor. 

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, Bali said:

I'm blanking on the actor who played Cain. But having him play an essentially one note character was a disservice. I've seen him in several other things and he is a charismatic versatile actor. 

Scott Jaeck is his name, and, among his many projects, he even had a small recurring role in the first couple seasons of ER as Dr. Steven Flint, head of radiology. He was the doctor that caught Carter with a former patient, played by Liz Vassey (Emily Ann Sago, All My Children), and had the following funky line:

"S1, S2, S3, S4, keep your pelvis off the floor!"

[Bali]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:25 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Scott Jaeck is his name, and, among his many projects, he even had a small recurring role in the first couple seasons of ER as Dr. Steven Flint, head of radiology. He was the doctor that caught Carter with a former patient, played by Liz Vassey (Emily Ann Sago, All My Children), and had the following funky line:

"S1, S2, S3, S4, keep your pelvis off the floor!"

Thank you. I've always liked him. I was just drawing a blank. It's been a long week

[BingeyKohan]

I'd love to do as methodical a rewatch as some others do and talk about here - what is the best way to do that? A particular YT channel? Many thanks in advance. 🙏

[cleo]

@BingeyKohan hopefully I can post the links here. These are mostly Youtube.  

1.       The first three YT links here are the same person- he is a good source but every several months YT purges everything he posts. And then he starts over lol. So there are a few eps here, but not a lot bc they did a purge recently. But his eps are good quality and he is pretty dedicated to it.

·       Kelly Eden Capwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCslW8McgGenNI8nx8RrYJtA

·       santabarbara8493

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1COjqkgX595G3PkZpUQI-g

·       Capwell Sisters

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi9KNa4IFThqdz72W8Hmf0A

2.       I came across this person recently on YT- they have ep 1-300 posted in English. It’s in 2 separate playlists- this is probably the best place to start if you want to start at the beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC22k1QM-bxACAT2uFLYLIPg/playlists

3.       I know of a few other YT channels but they are all either tailored clips- Cruz and Eden. Or just random episodes.

As for me- I have my own episodes, almost the whole series. About half I got from YT several years ago before a purge (I just spent a lot of time tracking them and downloading them) and half I bought from someone. She used to have almost the entire show available. If you want her info pm me (she has a website), but she lives in Eastern Europe and I think it’s possible she has been affected by the war and might not be making eps available right now.

I think someone else may have another non-YT source but I don’t know the details other than that.

[BingeyKohan]

@cleo amazingly helpful - thank you so much! I work from home now (and fortunate to do so with some downtime) so I had the idea of watching one episode in the afternoons like I used to when it was actually airing (and I'd rush home from school just in time - or not quite, but enough to keep up). I am going to try that starting in sequence, possibly, though it was probably not til '86 that I really started watching as a kid.

[cleo]

No problem, it's nice to share- I wish more people were watching bc it's fun to talk about.

That youtuber with the 1-300 list should keep you going for a while then! Although the beginning- all the crappy CCs you have to get through before Jed Allan lol. 

I started watching as a preteen in 1990/91, so basically near the end. It's only been the last few years I've watched the whole thing. Well up to Marcy Walker leaving and nothing that happened after that is canon to me lol. 

 

ETA actually it's 1-200 i guess.

Edited May 10, 2022 by cleo

[ByaNose]

It’s funny because just yesterday I went down the rabbit hole in the casting(s) of CC Capwell. I was reading wiki here and there. Also, some YouTube videos. They found gold with Jed Allan but it makes you wonder why he wasn’t hired to begin with?! I watched SB but it wasn’t my ride or die. I thought everyone was so beautiful looking especially Robin Wright & Marcy Walker. It was beautifully shot and so bright. You saw everything on that set. It was never dark or moody. It sort of lost its way at the end but it still wasn’t a horrible soap. I watched GL so I know what a  bad soap looks like at the end. LOL!!!! Santa Barbara ended way too soon. 

[cleo]

SB was definitely my obsession. I think I was 13 or 14, just the right age for a soap obsession.

I thought 1991 was improving but it didn't seem to recover from MW leaving. It sounds awful lol.

Casting CC - I dunno what the issue was but I hated all of them but Jed Allan.

Edited May 10, 2022 by cleo

[Bali]

16 hours ago, cleo said:

 

That youtuber with the 1-300 list should keep you going for a while then! Although the beginning- all the crappy CCs you have to get through before Jed Allan lol. 

CC 1 wasn't bad. Charles Bateman isn't bad at all. So, really, it's just CC 2 that makes you want to rip your eyes out.

[Bali]

15 hours ago, ByaNose said:

It’s funny because just yesterday I went down the rabbit hole in the casting(s) of CC Capwell. I was reading wiki here and there. Also, some YouTube videos. They found gold with Jed Allan but it makes you wonder why he wasn’t hired to begin with?! I watched SB but it wasn’t my ride or die. I thought everyone was so beautiful looking especially Robin Wright & Marcy Walker. It was beautifully shot and so bright. You saw everything on that set. It was never dark or moody. It sort of lost its way at the end but it still wasn’t a horrible soap. I watched GL so I know what a  bad soap looks like at the end. LOL!!!! Santa Barbara ended way too soon. 

According to Jed Allan's autobiography, the powers that be didn't think he was the right age for CC. So, they said no to his early audition and he renewed with Days. Days wasted him, and he auditioned for CC again. He didn't prep for it and didn't have it memorized. The suits dragged their feet again and made him audition a third time. He finally nailed it. And we got CC (the real one, the others were posers)

[Bali]

I'm on 1032. I don't dislike Kimberly McArthur. I just think they saddled her with a horrific storyline. TJ  out of the blue? But there are so many issues here: TJ and Kelly zero chemistry. Jeffrey and Kelly zero chemistry. The fact that the women keep hitting each other. Kelly slugged TJs new girlfriend Buffy and lands in jail? Kelly doesn't hit people. A few episodes ago, Sophia slapped Kelly. No. Just no. 1984-88 Sophia would never ever ever slap one of her kids. Gina, yeah, Keith she did and he deserved it. But she wouldn't slap her baby girl. Of course I still say 84-88 Sophia would also not sleep with TJ. Mason isn't Mason, he's Sonny. I'm laughing, but I want MASON.  This is a mess!

[cleo]

I didn't like any CC but Jed Allan. 

1 hour ago, Bali said:

Kelly slugged TJs new girlfriend Buffy and lands in jail? Kelly doesn't hit people. A few episodes ago, Sophia slapped Kelly. No. Just no. 1984-88 Sophia would never ever ever slap one of her kids. 

Yeah I decided I will be ff the stuff with Kelly and TJ. ITA that Kelly hitting people and sleeping with Jeffrey is insane and not at all in keeping with her character. 

I actually buy it more from Sophia- the slap and sleeping with TJ, but overall 1988 is just a descent into garbage.

I did like the Hal Clark storyline, that's about it. 

So everyone finds out Cruz is Chip's father and no one comments on HOW that actually happened bc IIRC it wasn't common knowledge Tory raped Cruz. And I know the soap would never call it that. But even that there was any activity- I remember Ted saw them, told his wife. 

Again as far as I can remember Cruz didn't remember and Eden didn't know. 

[Bali]

O.M.G. episode 1037- Gina is explaining the Capwells to Sonny and I am holding my sides. "Why is Channing dead?"

"Sophia killed him. But she didn't know it was him. Moving on. This is your sister Eden." "Where'd they come up with a name like that?"

"This is your sister Kelly. She's married to your brother Jeffrey." "My sister is married to my brother? Are you makin this up?"

 

[cleo]

I continue to sludge through 1988. 

I really dislike the Kelly/TJ stuff, it's totally OOC and ridiculous for Kelly to suddenly be into TJ. One episode she's like he's a gigolo and the other she's into him. I'm assuming TJ has mad skillz.

And I guess they do it by throwing Jeffrey under the bus. 

There was enough conflict with Pamela being in the middle of the marriage, they didn't need to go down the path of Kelly realizing Jeffrey is an asshole or something.

Kelly is my least favourite character but I actually came around on the pairing with Jeffrey and grew to like him quite a bit. So I just find it annoying they're going to throw it away on TJ. 

Tori, Cruz, and Eden- the writers must have really hated KS. She's going to move and not even give Cruz a forwarding address? 

And then it moves into Eden and fertility story and I'm not into that at all.

Whatever that mess is with Cain, not into any of it.

[Prairie Rose]

Speaking of 1988, am I the only one who actually enjoyed the Pebble Creek wedding costumes? Though I have to give a hard PASS on Eden's wedding garb. Her ensemble in the disrupted Orient Express Capwell Hotel nuptials in 1985 looked so much better.

[Prairie Rose]

24 minutes ago, cleo said:

I really dislike the Kelly/TJ stuff, it's totally OOC and ridiculous for Kelly to suddenly be into TJ. One episode she's like he's a gigolo and the other she's into him. I'm assuming TJ has mad skillz.

Robin was still playing Kelly when that gross plot unfolded! Though I don't think Kelly actually slept with him until Kimberly McArthur came on.

[Hiyo]

Quote

And I guess they do it by throwing Jeffrey under the bus. 

[Prairie Rose]

Poor Jeffrey. (Does anyone know if Ross Kettle was fired or left on his own?) He left only weeks before Carrington Garland came on as Kelly #3.

[cleo]

Not sure why Ross Kettle left. He grew on me quite a bit. 

Eden and Cruz at Pebble Creek- I'm a C/E fan but I'm not into a lot of sentimental stuff so I've never managed to sit through that wedding. So I can't really picture the dresses etc. I'll never forget some interview LD did where he was like yeah so I had to memorize these long soliloquys/speeches and Marcy and A would just have to make goo goo eyes at each other for 20 mins lol. 

I feel like I should say something positive lol- Mason in the convent storyline is ok. I also still find the Keith/Gina wedding stuff amusing in small doses. 

I am looking forward to Bunny, I never saw him on the scene from the beginning. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

Not sure why Ross Kettle left. He grew on me quite a bit. 

I liked Jeffrey. I liked him and Kelly together, and also wished the show explored more of his relationship with Mason. Granted, I wish the show had gotten more mileage out of Mason interacting with that side of his family, but still...