Santa Barbara - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

Since the Small Talk threads have been explained as being for OT stuff!

Let's discuss the good, the bad, the ugly - and the downright bizarre here!

[WendyCR72]

RIP to Phyllis Frelich, who played Sister Sarah. She has died of Progressive Supranuclear Palsy at age 70.

[Notorious]

Hi!  I used to lurk  at TWOP (well, mostly ... posted a few times), but just wanted to introduce myself.  Just got into Santa Barbara recently and am still trying to string everything together, which is difficult to do on YT.  

 

I f'love Mason & Julia .. they are now my favorite soap couple ever!  LD/NLG were magic!  Pure and simple.  I also enjoyed TL/GT in the roles as they were good actors and had chemistry with NLG, though not nearly as much as LD. 

 

Also, love Lionel/Augusta; CC/Sofia; and Keith/Gina (even though I couldn't stand her during the Sonny Sprocket storyline).  I like Cruz and Eden as well, but not as much as the others.  I tend to like them more with other characters than each other.  I also really like Ted's good guy persona, especially in contrast to Mason's broodiness .  

 

Such a great show overall.  Well-written, acted, and directed, even when some of the story lines seemed a little "silly."  The Capwell Zone episode springs to mind.  Weird, cheesy premise, but the writers and actors make it work.  In fact, I kinda loved it.

 

While I'm happy to have discovered the awesomeness that is Santa Barbara (and, of course, Mason and Julia), I'm disappointed that I'm a little late to the party so to speak.  It's difficult to find many people who want discuss the show anymore.  Hopefully, I've finally found the right place :)

 

Any chance they'll release the entire series on DVD?

 

ETA:  So sad about Phyllis French.  I loved her as Sister Sarah. Such a wonderful actress.  May she rest in peace.

Edited April 26, 2014 by NatashaCassadine

[cleo]

I was a lurker too, and have been watching this show recently. I only ever saw about a year of it when I was a teenager. I've been reviewing some of the eps now that I can find, but yes it's hard to find them. I watched the first few then had to jump forward.

 

When I was a teenager I loved Eden and Cruz, but mainly Eden, I had a huge crush on her really. I did like Mason and Julia, and many other characters. It will be interesting to see my reactions as an adult. 

 

Initially I'm finding the Joe Perkins storyline kind of ridiculous. There's a mysterious man who is present at Channing's death and then vanishes! There's a mysterious man trying to help Joe! Maybe the mysterious man is the killer! I think Joe said that once , but it just seems obvious and like everyone is dumb for not realizing.

 

I don't understand why Augusta was bent on keeping Joe out of town....?

 

It's crazy the show is/was so popular in Russia. It's frustrating many many eps are available only in Russian. But I'm trying to console myself that I would never make it through every ep anyway. 

 

I give the show some leeway as this was still very early on, I'm sure they were just finding their feet. I wish I could have seen Eden's initial episodes.  

[WendyCR72]

Eden's intro is on YT somewhere in English. Or was (as it was ages ago that I saw it). I know I did see it. She had layered shoulder length hair then as her hair was still being grown out from her AMC role of Liza Colby, which she had left for SB.

 

And the Joe Perkins story was the first big SB arc from the premiere, so yeah, the show was trying to find its legs.

 

The November '84 earthquake dispensed of a lot of deadweight characters, as did the Carnation Killer storyline.

[cleo]

I'll have to search again...Yeah I'm looking forward to seeing what I can of the earthquake and Carnation Killer

Edited April 29, 2014 by cleo

[cleo]

So it is quiet in here...hope it's okay I doublepost. I'm continuing to watch, am up to early 1985. At first Mason seemed one note, but the arc with CC turning on him when Peter suggested Mason killed Channing- there were some powerful scenes there, hard to watch. Also hard to watch Mason around Kelly's wedding. I understand maybe when Kelly and Ted were not overly sympathetic, Eden just tells him to sit down when he comes in and seems pretty dismissive of what he's going through, although I guess she had her own stuff going on.

 

I feel totally hooked on this show again, I never saw the earlier eps. The stuff with Peter was fairly well done right from the start, like he seemed like a 3 dimensional character, and believable (although the storyline with Ginger seemed dumb at times). I'm not sure I will watch the eps where he has kidnapped Kelly after the wedding. (But holy smokes, like 6 months in and Kelly is kidnapped twice and Eden once....they should get some special kind of insurance).

 

Also painful to watch Eden in the scene where she realizes it's Sophia the first time. I'm not a huge fan of Sophia (it may have something to do with the fact that I am not a huge fan of my own mother unfortunately).

 

I like Lionel, but honestly he comes across as a lech sometimes, between Eden, Sophia, and Augusta.

 

I'm skipping a lot of Brick & Amy but I like Warren quite a bit. Any good things to look for in 1985? I know the basic stories, just wondering what are faves.

I can't believe how hooked I've gotten on this show. Am going to avoid the Stailand thing. 

[WendyCR72]

Mason was the black sheep of his family since he was from CC's first marriage and not from CC's adored Sophia, so he always did seem like an outsider.

 

I liked Brick and Amy, they were low key. And Brick actually turned out to be fairly important, considering his lineage, so it's a shame SB dropped the ball there.

 

As for 1986, a lot of change really started happening. I think SB's golden era was from 1985 to maybe 1988.Ironically, it is also when A LOT of backstage turmoil was on the rise between NBC, SB creators Bridget and Jerome Dobson, and (now defunct) New World Productions.

[Genius]

Santa Barbara was my favorite soap opera back in the day.  They had brilliant plotting and satisfying long-term payoffs, even when some of the situations were ridiculous - like Sophia masquerading as a man, and Eden's horrific rape resulting in a pregnancy and birth, like, 3 months later.

 

How are you watching the repeats?  Where is it airing?  I'd love to see them again!

[WendyCR72]

Hi, Genius! YT has some SB stuff up, in bits and pieces. I have a YT account under this same name with some stuff, too.

[cleo]

Yeah mostly YT but I have found almost all the eps so far...if you want details you can PM me. I started from the beginning and am partway through 1985. I have skipped some eps here and there, as well as scenes from stories I'm less interested in, because there's so much. Not sure how far I'll get either.

 

I finished the Carnation Killer storyline. It was kind of funny seeing Peter hobble after Kelly in the desert- this guy has been shot, blown up, stabbed, brain tumor, and just keeps on coming. Poor Joe takes one shot to the gut and it's lights out. Peter's like Superman. Poor Veronica though. I liked her character by the end. 

 

I'm just at Gina & CC's wedding that wasn't. I like Mason a lot, he's probably one of my favourites now, but I get tired of the constant sniping between him and CC. It just seems like the same scene over and over. 

 

Eden wanting to get involved in her father's business does come across as kind of juvenile and like she doesn't really know what she's doing. It's also a bit boring. 

 

 

like Sophia masquerading as a man, and Eden's horrific rape

 

Yeah the Dominic thing was kind of silly. And no one recognizes her walking around as the Contessa or Suzanne- that was unbelievable too. But I did enjoy as they all found out. I've never seen the rape storyline...I only saw about a year toward the end when Eden had multiple personalities (did not care for that). 

Edited June 20, 2014 by cleo

[Milz]

Used to post on TWoP's thread as Milz (not very original with my handles). I started watching SB in elementary school because that was when it started, lol. It's still my favorite soap (Days comes close, but not very close).

 

RE: Augusta wanting to keep Joe out of town. I thought it was because Augusta thought Warren was involved in Channing's death. So keeping Joe out of town would keep any suspicion falling onto Warren.

 

Brick becomes animportant character and, yeah, I thought they kind of dropped the ball on his storyline too.

[WendyCR72]

Wow. I just saw this sad news at SON and am sort of sorry this is the newest post but Justin Gocke, the last actor to play Brandon Capwell (and won an Emmy in 1989 for the role) has died at age 36. Rumors are it was from an apparent suicide.  :-(  May he RIP.

[cleo]

That's too bad, especially so young. I just read an interview he gave years ago about his time on Santa Barbara. he seemed to really enjoy it. I'm just coming up to watching him as Brandon now. 

 

I've been watching 1986, just the beginning, Jed Allen is just starting. 

 

I really dislike Santana #3. CC comes out of a come- can I have Brandon back? Brick is actually Channing- can I have Brandon back? Selfish and yes kind of whiny, just don't like what the actress is doing with the character at all. I prefer Santana #2

 

Surprised Mason and Mary were so popular,  they're okay but Mary's endless preaching/blaming about how awful a person Mason is really wore thin. 

 

Kirk with Eden just yucky. 

[WendyCR72]

Surprised Mason and Mary were so popular,  they're okay but Mary's endless preaching/blaming about how awful a person Mason is really wore thin.

 

I MUCH preferred Mason and Julia. Loved them. But, yeah, Mason and Mary were popular, so much so, I guess ratings fell hard after the big C crushed her and took around 2 years to get back up again.

[sbfan81]

ICAM!
Mary's verbal abuse of Mason was annoying. She was soooo judgemental. And not just with Mason. She was terrible and vicious to Ted when he was accused of Christie's rape. Which is sort of understandable, but still...

 

I liked M&M together but IMO, Julia was far more loving and accepting of Mason.

 

Brick and Amy were likable but a bit boring. Whenever I see 1984 episodes, I usually FF them (along with Ted, Laken, Danny and Jade). I agree that Lionel's behavior was questionable when he had that yucky fling with Eden. I loved Lionel & Augusta and was disappointed that Lionel ended up with Gina (whose true love was Keith) in the end. Speaking of Gina, I loved both Linda Gibboney and Robin Mattson. They were both able to bring out Gina's human, vulnerable side.

 

It's interesting to see how awful Robin Wright was in those early days. But she became very good very fast. Todd McKee's acting improved as well.

 

What did you all think of early characters like Summer Blake, Liz Peale and Veronica?
 

[sbfan81]

And I also agree about Santana #3. She was irritating, to say the least. I preferred Ava Lazar and Margaret Michaels. Number 4, Wanda De Jesus, wasn't terrible but she was incredibly cold in her scenes.

 

Everyone seemed to like Pearl but I didn't like him either. The only time he was bearable was when he dated Courtney (loved her!)

 

My all-time favorite storyline was the one with Elena Nikolas (a.k.a. Eleanor Norris) and its aftermath (Cruz's trial, Pamela's return).

[cleo]

 

What did you all think of early characters like Summer Blake, Liz Peale and Veronica?

 

I liked Veronica, fastforwarded all of Liz Peale. Indifferent to Summer Blake.

 

I like Pearl in small doses.

 

I'm watching 1986 now, Kirk has tried to kill Eden. He really is a coward/weak using Gina rather than doing it himself. Such a relief when Eden realizes. And then he has a heart attack?! It's funny how much time this family spends at the hospital.

 

 

My all-time favorite storyline was the one with Elena Nikolas (a.k.a. Eleanor Norris) and its aftermath (Cruz's trial, Pamela's return).

 

I'm looking forward to the Elena storyline I never saw that.

 

I like Lionel and Augusta in small doses. I really like Warren and wish he had plots that interested me more.

 

Nice to finally see Jed Allen even though he is a jackass to Mason. I get tired of that.

Edited November 6, 2014 by cleo

[cleo]

Well double post but it's been a long time so hopefully it's okay. I'm still watching this but I'm approaching the point where I may start to bail. I'm at 1987, Mason has just married Victoria. 

 

I'm interested in the Mason and Julia storyline and will continue with that. I will probably watch the Elena storyline play out. After that, I'm not sure what's left that's good. Quality seems to lessen. I'm not interested in Eden's pregnancy, kidnapping storylines.

 

Is there anything left that's good after 1987? Robert Barr I guess. Mason & Julia post 1987?

 

I have zero interest in pretty much everything related to Kelly. 

[WendyCR72]

Well double post but it's been a long time so hopefully it's okay. I'm still watching this but I'm approaching the point where I may start to bail. I'm at 1987, Mason has just married Victoria. 

 

I'm interested in the Mason and Julia storyline and will continue with that. I will probably watch the Elena storyline play out. After that, I'm not sure what's left that's good. Quality seems to lessen. I'm not interested in Eden's pregnancy, kidnapping storylines.

 

Is there anything left that's good after 1987? Robert Barr I guess. Mason & Julia post 1987?

 

I have zero interest in pretty much everything related to Kelly. 

 

I liked RW's Kelly, but I admit, when Kelly #3 in the form of Carrington Garland was cast, I think she did a great job. Even if Kelly and Eden became at odds over Robert. But CG and Roscoe Born did have chemistry, even if I preferred her flirtation with Cruz's brother, Ric. She also had great chemistry with John Callahan's Craig Hunt.

 

So with all those guys in the mix, Kelly could have looked just fickle and flaky, but I do think CG made it all work. (And her resemblance to Marcy Walker was uncanny. Why the Dobsons fired her for "name" Eileen Davidson, I'll never understand. Maybe it was desperation to save the show.)

 

But Mason/Julia were why I watched 'til the end. Terry Lester, looking back, seemed miscast. But he was only there for a year (left because of a contract loophole) and Gordon Thomson [ex-Adam Carrington, Dynasty] did a good job in the role.

[ShaNaeNae]

Wow, reading this brings back memories! I was obsessed with SB back in the day. OBSESSED.  And of course back then there was no internet, no way to find other fans. The height of my obsession was around '86, the year I turned 13.  I stopped watching I'd say about '88. When I got in high school. My friend was obsessed with Days and me...SB. I've never gotten into soaps since. I used to write them (you know, mail?) and ask for an autographed picture and they'd send back B&W 8x10's autographed. I had a crazy un-sane life at the time, so these people with perfect lives on TV really drew me in. I remember loving Eden and Kelly (you know Robin Wright before she married a Penn?), but knowing I could never look like them with the blond hair and blue eyes. Me, being short, going through puberty and getting curves and boobs out of control, half Mexican, dark hair. But then when Stacey Edwards joined the cast as Hayley, I found my role model She was my absolute favorite. I vowed to name my kids Hayley one day I actually had it picked out when I was pregnant with my now 16 year old son if he were a girl.

 

Well this has turned out to be more of a therapy sesh instead of the show, but I'd love to catch a few episodes on YT for old times sake.

 

I did look up Todd McKee (Ted) not too long ago and he's like an investment banker or something like that now. Funny.

[silverspoons]

Wow, reading this brings back memories! I was obsessed with SB back in the day. OBSESSED.  And of course back then there was no internet, no way to find other fans. The height of my obsession was around '86, the year I turned 13.  I stopped watching I'd say about '88. When I got in high school. My friend was obsessed with Days and me...SB. I've never gotten into soaps since. I used to write them (you know, mail?) and ask for an autographed picture and they'd send back B&W 8x10's autographed. I had a crazy un-sane life at the time, so these people with perfect lives on TV really drew me in. I remember loving Eden and Kelly (you know Robin Wright before she married a Penn?), but knowing I could never look like them with the blond hair and blue eyes. Me, being short, going through puberty and getting curves and boobs out of control, half Mexican, dark hair. But then when Stacey Edwards joined the cast as Hayley, I found my role model She was my absolute favorite. I vowed to name my kids Hayley one day I actually had it picked out when I was pregnant with my now 16 year old son if he were a girl.

 

Well this has turned out to be more of a therapy sesh instead of the show, but I'd love to catch a few episodes on YT for old times sake.

 

I did look up Todd McKee (Ted) not too long ago and he's like an investment banker or something like that now. Funny.

I still have my book of autographs of SB and DOOL stars of the 80's. My mail carrier was a soap fan and would wait as I opened my mail. I remember Cruz wrote me a personal note and I was in love:) I felt bad that my daughter did not know the excitement of waiting by the mailbox that I did. I found a website that has the address for the getting autographs. Oh how times have changed. in the 80's you would just send a fan letter to 3000 west almenda ave and get a autograph back. Now you have to send a approved pictured and SASE and wait months.

 

I wish there was more SB on youtube or dvds. I have been able to relive 80's days but not much of Santa Barbara.

[ShaNaeNae]

I still have my book of autographs of SB and DOOL stars of the 80's. My mail carrier was a soap fan and would wait as I opened my mail. I remember Cruz wrote me a personal note and I was in love:) I felt bad that my daughter did not know the excitement of waiting by the mailbox that I did. I found a website that has the address for the getting autographs. Oh how times have changed. in the 80's you would just send a fan letter to 3000 west almenda ave and get a autograph back. Now you have to send a approved pictured and SASE and wait months.

 

I wish there was more SB on youtube or dvds. I have been able to relive 80's days but not much of Santa Barbara.

 

That is awesome silverspoons! By the way, nice to see you, did you move over here with everyone else? I'm not as active as I used to be over at the other site, but haven't seen you in a while.

 

3000 West Alameda...Burbank! Brings back memories. Swoon, you got a note from Cruz (A Martinez). I got a nice note once from Nancy Grahn (Julia) and I used to brag that Brandon Call was writing me, but looking back now...that was an adult woman's handwriting lol. I loved the 8x10's (black and white) I had from Gina Gallegos and Susan Marie Snyder (second Laken).  Those manila envelopes were the best thing to see. DOOL was my second favorite. They had a 'Meet the Soap Stars' deal at a Six Flags water park and I went and got to meet Wally Kurth and Billy Warlock. I had my picture with them each and I blew them up to 8x10 and put them in frames. That summer ('87) I also went to 2 other soap meet and greets, one with Robin Mattson, the other with ATWT, but nothing compared to the one with Billy and Wally. I loved Frankie and Jenn. Such fun memories.

 

I forget we're supposed to talk about the actual show here. Sorry to take it off topic!

[cleo]

Can someone tell me what was up with Elena/Eleanor? A lot of the clips are missing. She was Pamela's daughter? And she is after the Capwells why? At first I thought she wanted to replace Eden generally, like jealousy as she was not a Capwell daughter. Then it seems her focus is primarily on Cruz- did she do everything to get him? And then kidnaps Mason in the desert for some reason?

 

I don't quite get what she's trying to do or why. Partly bc there's a lot of clips missing, they're not in order, etc.

[WendyCR72]

Elena Nikolas/Eleanor Norris was, in fact, a Capwell daughter. The eldest daughter, actually, which is why she targeted Eden for taking "her" place or whatever. C.C. threw Pamela out when Mason was a small boy and kept him. I forget if it was because Pamela cheated or if it was because she was crazy, but what C.C. didn't know was Pamela was pregnant again with his child. In any case, Pamela became involved with a man named Alex Nikolas and left the baby with him to raise.

 

So that is why Elena/Eleanor came to town: To get revenge. She went after Eden, had Mason kidnapped by that Indian (and how ironic she targeted her brother, Mason, considering his thorny relationship with the family!), and I think she even tried to go after Ted and Kelly once or twice. Elena wanted what she thought belonged to her and was going to kill all of the other Capwell kids to get it. And it's probably why she went after Cruz. Because he loved Eden and so on.

 

C.C. had no idea of Elena's existence as his daughter, which made Elena's final ploy - to frame Cruz for her death - so soapy. Remember her last words as C.C. and others were there? "Cruz killed me, Daddy."

[cleo]

Thanks!

[Happy Harpy]

SB was also my first soap, and the only one I ever obsessed about. I've found some episodes lately, and am rewatching the former seasons (I'm currently at the beginning of Elena's storyline).

 

I loved Mason and Julia as much as Cruz and Eden. The former being more satisfying for a shipper, of course.

Initially, my favorite were Ted and Laken number 1 and Joe number 1 and Kelly (never warmed up to the replacement).

 

It's funny how perception changes or not, with time and age (although I often feel like I'm 12 again whenever I watch SB).

Didn't change:

-Peter Flint and Elena are still my favorite love to hate psycho-sociopathic villains, and yes, I was surprised on rewatch by how three-dimensional Peter was. Elena was more terrifying for me, she was so evil and organized and she got her way for so long...not that long in real time, actually, but it seemed like years.

-I loathed Victoria Lane and my loathing is 100% intact -poor actress, she ended up being the foe for the two big supercouples of the show. Thankfully for her, the net didn't exist yet. I don't want to imagine the intensity of the hatred she'd have received. I admire the efforts of the writers to give Victoria a valid POV, they did try to make her sympathetic...to no avail with me. I guess her taking advantage of Cruz would have generated a lot of heat today and retrospectively, that's also why I never warmed up to her character even beyond the fact that she kept my favorite couples apart, of course.

-Loved the Julia/Cruz and Julia/Eden friendship, and am glad they never "went there" with Julia and Cruz. I have the feeling, in general, that there were more male/female friendships on SB than on most soaps, including when the characters were attractive.

-About friendships, Joe/Cruz was my favorite. DW and AM had imo an incredible chemistry and I never believed as much that Cruz was friend with any other male character. Except for Brick, at one point, but as you said above, they dropped the ball with the character.

-They actually dropped the ball with both Lockridge sons, in those early years. I liked J.Allen Nelson as Warren, and he was an atypical relax, take it easy character next to all those intense/brooding male types imo, but they never managed to find him a place.

-I still prefer L.Gibboney to R.Mattson as Gina. I found her better at playing the bitch in sheep clothing. R.Mattson was more openly a villain and more hammy/campy imo.

 

Changed:

-I still love, love, love Cruz and Eden, but I prefer the playful tone they had in the beginning. Don't get me wrong, the angst is great angst -nowadays writers, including of non-daytime drama, should take notes- I love the intensity, and I can't wait to watch them meeting again when she's back from the dead and to watch their next wedding in all its rococo-mantical splendor. But I feel that they ploy under the heaviness of being the "star-crossed lovers" couple and I could have done with a bit more levity and a bit less destiny.

-Gosh, my adult self cannot stand Amy Perkins. It began when she insisted that Kelly, in spite of being traumatized, had to attend Amy's party (which incidentally allowed Peter Flint to take everyone's hostage) and then it never stopped. What a whiny, whiny, whiny thing. I love Brick as much as the first time around, though.

-Shock: A.Martinez and R.Wright had great romantic chemistry, too. I never saw it back then, but after Joe's death when Kelly and Cruz get close and Eden is obviously uncomfortable with it (thanks to Marcello, but not only)...this time around, I was "uh-oh" and retrospectively, I wonder if waters were tested. I'm soooo glad it didn't happen, though.

-I used to be 100% in Santana number 1's camp and wanted her to get Brandon, this time I actually saw Gina as a victim, too; at least in the beginning. But once more, I stopped caring for Santana once Ava Lazar was gone.

-I used to like Mary, now count me in the group of those who have trouble to stomach the holier-than-you attitude.

-I used to see Augusta as a campy, almost buffoon-like character. I had forgotten that she had more layers than that.

 

The funniest thing for me is whom I remember or completely forgot. I remembered Summer Black vividly, and was shocked to realize that she wasn't on the show for very long...whereas I had 100% forgotten about Nick, whereas he was around longer and with Kelly for a long time, too. I had also forgotten about Veronica.

I didn't remember either the number of rape storylines in the early years, especially in long arcs. Nevertheless, they stayed clear from any rape as seduction (even Cruz was allowed to say that Victoria took advantage of him and be mad at her) so that's still something.

[cleo]

-Peter Flint and Elena are still my favorite love to hate psycho-sociopathic villains, and yes, I was surprised on rewatch by how three-dimensional Peter was. Elena was more terrifying for me, she was so evil and organized and she got her way for so long.

 

 

Totally agree, and I think Elena is my favourite. I’ve only watched parts of her storyline though. I found the relationship between Eden and Cain very interesting, but some of it I skipped through.

I was really interested in watching the fallout of Pamela’s return, particular with Mason, Sophia, CC, etc. but had trouble finding clips- most of the clips seem to be about Cruz and Eden, and at this point, after watching from the beginning, I’ve had my fill of Cruz and Eden angst so I’m skipping a lot of it.

 

I continue to loathe Kelly.

 

-I loathed Victoria Lane

Yeah, I blame the writers. Once in a rare while Victoria had a spine and personality, but it disappeared fast.

 

I thought Warren was awesome. I really liked the actor.

 

In my viewing I’m at the tail end of 1987 but other than watching whatever Mason and Julia clips I can found I think I’ll skip it- most of 1988 looks awful.

Is the Sonny Sprocket storyline any good?

[WendyCR72]

Is the Sonny Sprocket storyline any good?

 

It had its moments, but in hindsight, it got annoying fairly quickly. Although if you liked Mary/Mason (I preferred Mason/Julia by a mile, but they were okay), she factors in later. Let's just say I never knew hair grew so long in heaven!

[Happy Harpy]

Totally agree, and I think Elena is my favourite. I’ve only watched parts of her storyline though. I found the relationship between Eden and Cain very interesting, but some of it I skipped through.

I was really interested in watching the fallout of Pamela’s return, particular with Mason, Sophia, CC, etc. but had trouble finding clips- most of the clips seem to be about Cruz and Eden, and at this point, after watching from the beginning, I’ve had my fill of Cruz and Eden angst so I’m skipping a lot of it.

 

I continue to loathe Kelly.

I always had the impression that the writers hesitated for very long about Eden/Cain, until where it would go, and about Cain himself (good or bad); their relationship wasn't always coherent imo. 

The angst is a bit different for a while between Cruz and Eden after Elena, it isn't about whether or not they love each other -although Cruz's feelings are never in question even during Eden's "I want my beloved to be happy" wheelchair crisis- they're united as a couple, and on the same side. So in spite of the world and Keith going against them, I had the feeling that there was a payoff after all the people who had tried to tear them apart from inside (Kirk, Santana, Victoria etc.) and it was satisfying.

Thankfully...since Mason and Julia were in full angst, with his freaking neverending marriage to Victoria and their "we can't be together" routine.

Pamela was a bit too much of a Poor Man's Alexis Carrington for me. The difference with Gina, for example, was that I could never believe that Pamela truly loved her children, not the way Gina loved Brandon.

 

I blame TJ for turning me against both Sophia  (temporarily) and Kelly. And even Jeffrey, in a different way, although Pamela was a bigger factor in that.

 

It had its moments, but in hindsight, it got annoying fairly quickly. Although if you liked Mary/Mason (I preferred Mason/Julia by a mile, but they were okay), she factors in later. Let's just say I never knew hair grew so long in heaven!

I agree. I remember thinking it was too soon, and couldn't they give Mason/Julia a bit more of a break.

In the same way that Cruz and Eden suffered imo from their star-crossed lovers destiny, Mason/Julia suffered imo from the light in which their problems painted them; especially after they truly got together post-Victoria. I had the feeling that the writers cared less about protecting their integrity/likeability as characters than they did for Cruz and Eden. M/J were less of a "sacred cow", for example I don't think that any blackmail (IIRC) would have been allowed between C/E. I think that I might have problems rooting for them at times, on rewatch.

 

One thing I love about SB: no portmanteau names! (Imagine, "Creden" or "Chaphia", brr! And I can't even fathom one for Mason/Julia).

[AmyK.]

Ok, where is everyone watching all the old episodes at? I have found them on Youtube but it's pretty hard to know the correct order of all the story lines!

[WendyCR72]

I think YT is the only place, Amy, unless you just like a certain pairing. (I know Nancyfan.com has the M/J storyline in order by clips, for example!)

[cleo]

Watching bits and pieces of 1988 I think. Did they ever address in the show the changing set for Cruz and Eden? I was watching clips and they were at his house, the wood toned one, and then suddenly it jumps to their house, the one they were in through the 90s, the lighter white set. It looked very generic though, like  a hotel room, I don't really like the set.

 

I hated Michael when I saw the show as a teen and I still do. Not sure why.

 

Saw a clip where Gina was shot out of a cannon...? Not sure why. I gather the plotline is they think Mason is dead, Gina finds him (and Sonny?) and then it segues into the Sonny Sprocket story? I've only seen bits and pieces, 88 and 89 are not very enjoyable to me.

[cleo]

I’m still watching this. I’m watching the Lisa storyline now. I guess it wasn’t popular, but watching it now I’m really impressed with how well written and acted it was- at least until Eden’s ‘death’. At that point I think it really went off the rails.

But up until then I think was pretty well done, and there is definitely a difference between the Dobson years and the non-Dobson years, which I found unwatchable.

The other thing is I’m surprised by how truly bleak the storyline is.

 

I watched a while after Eden’s ‘death’ to see if she would ever return and it broke my 13-year old heart that she didn’t and I quit watching.

[Notorious]

Hi Everyone! Mason and Julia are my absolute faves.  I've found some clips of the Gordon Thompson era and have some questions regarding Julia's rape story.  

 

1) The clips I've seen (and they're far and few between on YT) have Augusta questioning Julia's protestations of rape and she uses her history with men to do so.  It's pretty unfathomable for me that she would do that to Julia and, while I haven't watched clips of their entire relationship, they did seem very close. My question is did she continue to not only question Julia's veracity but conspire with Dash against her? Or did she eventually realize the errors of her way. 

 

2) My second question is about Cassie, who I immediately disliked. I don't know how she thought she was able to control Mason ... the plane proposal with her making demands on Mason just seemed so out of character for Mason ... but, I digress.  Anyway, Cassie was the one who anonymously gave Dash's attorney a tip about Michael and Julia, sabotaging Julia's case and ultimately exonerating Dash of the rape charges.  Did Mason/Julia ever find out? And if they did, did they have a reaction?

 

I don't know if it's only b/c I'm seeing bits and pieces of it, but Julia's rape is terribly written. NLG acts the hell out of it but it just doesn't seem to work the way it was written. Julia was portrayed as this cold, bitter man-hater and Dash, the charming, handsome victim, who's only mistake was falling for Julia. It's disgusting. And don't get me started on everybody doubting Julia's word. She was NOT the character that was going to falsely accuse anyone. I mean, she spent  years fighting for the underdog and  defending the presumption of innocence. And she was also not one to misinterpret rape. I'm glad at least Mason never wavered in his belief in her (and oh, while I like GT, I wish Lane Davies was playing Mason then .. I'm curious to see how he would've played some of those scenes).  But, end rant ... I just had to get that out there. It just seems ridiculous that they would choose Julia out of all the female characters to play that type of rape scenario.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Notorious

[WendyCR72]

My second question is about Cassie, who I immediately disliked. I don't know how she thought she was able to control Mason ... the plane proposal with her making demands on Mason just seemed so out of character for Mason ... but, I digress.  Anyway, Cassie was the one who anonymously gave Dash's attorney a tip about Michael and Julia, sabotaging Julia's case and ultimately exonerating Dash of the rape charges.  Did Mason/Julia ever find out? And if they did, did they have a reaction?

 

Neither Mason nor Julia ever found out about any of Cassie's schemes. The writers were too busy making her the delicate flower in the Cassie/Warren/Angela saga (and then making Cassie a daughter Minx gave up, by which Cassie could not have Warren, went crazy, and was sent away).

 

Always did make me mad that none of Cassie's machinations came to light.

[Notorious]

Neither Mason nor Julia ever found out about any of Cassie's schemes. The writers were too busy making her the delicate flower in the Cassie/Warren/Angela saga (and then making Cassie a daughter Minx gave up, by which Cassie could not have Warren, went crazy, and was sent away).

 

Always did make me mad that none of Cassie's machinations came to light.

 

Really? That is frustrating. I did wonder how Mason would still want to marry Cassie after knowing what she did. But, it makes sense now .. he didn't know.   Thank you for answering.

 

I know the Dobsons were forced out in 1987 but later returned. Do you know when they returned and for how long? I'm curious as to what their vision was for Mason/Julia. I know they were responsible for Mason/Mary, and later Mary being squashed by the big "C" (which was necessary IMO),  but Julia seemed to flounder under them without any real purpose.  From what I understand the baby contract was NLG and Chuck Pratt's idea and that Patrick Mulcahey was also responsible for a lot of Julia eventually became. 

 

Thanks again for answering :)

[WendyCR72]

I believe Round #2 (and the last hurrah) for the Dobsons came around 1990 and they were once more fired in 1991. The last good thing that was done was the 1991 Capwell Dinner when Mason brought Pamela and all hell broke loose.

 

The Dobsons said around that time that M/J were "star crossed" (in my mind, meaning doomed) and they wanted to set up Mason with Capwell German houseguest, Katrina, who was a major drip (and ended up with Dash). I think the Dobsons were stuck in a timewarp and wanted to redo the Mason/Mary dynamic. Thankfully, it never really seemed to get off the ground. GT looked like Maria Ellingsen's father. (And this comes from someone who liked GT as Mason #3, although LD was still the best.)

 

They also made the huge mistake (IMO) of firing Carrington Garland's Kelly (the Marcy Walker lookalike - and actress who had chemistry with everyone) for Eileen Davidson.

[Notorious]

I believe Round #2 (and the last hurrah) for the Dobsons came around 1990 and they were once more fired in 1991. The last good thing that was done was the 1991 Capwell Dinner when Mason brought Pamela and all hell broke loose.

 

The Dobsons said around that time that M/J were "star crossed" (in my mind, meaning doomed) and they wanted to set up Mason with Capwell German houseguest, Katrina, who was a major drip (and ended up with Dash). I think the Dobsons were stuck in a timewarp and wanted to redo the Mason/Mary dynamic. Thankfully, it never really seemed to get off the ground. GT looked like Maria Ellingsen's father. (And this comes from someone who liked GT as Mason #3, although LD was still the best.)

 

They also made the huge mistake (IMO) of firing Carrington Garland's Kelly (the Marcy Walker lookalike - and actress who had chemistry with everyone) for Eileen Davidson.

 

I've seen a few clips with Katrina. I didn't realize they were trying to set her up with Mason. I don't get why the writers were so fascinated with trying to recreate the Mason/Mary dynamic over and over again. Isn't that how Mason/Victoria started out as well? And I remember reading that the writers wanted to bring on a nun for Mason but that was nixed b/c of the writers' strike of '88 and Sister Sara was brought in instead.  It's easy to understand why those attempts failed.  Fans of Mason/Mary weren't going to easily accept a replacement and Mason/Julia had really taken off.  

 

Replacing CG w/ ED was the Dobsons' idea? Yikes. Was it also their idea to pair Cruz/Kelly? While I really love their friendship, I think it would've made more sense to pair Cruz/Julia. They had chemistry and could've been good. But, I get them not wanting to mess up the friendship.

 

Santa Barbara had wonderful actors and writing much of the time but it seems like  it was in constant upheaval behind the scenes. It seemed like characters/actors were rotated and replaced regularly.  And the writers were in and out as well. 

[WendyCR72]

Cruz/Kelly, IIRC, were under the final head writer, Pam Long. It was also Long who sidelined the Capwells for the awful new family with Kim Zimmer (whom Long worked with on Guiding Light) as the matriarch, and gave her a past with Cruz, including a daughter Cruz had no idea was his. Bleah.

[cleo]

Cruz and Julia would have been much better than Cruz and Kelly.

[WendyCR72]

Cruz and Julia would have been much better than Cruz and Kelly.

 

In theory, yes. But I'm glad Cruz/Julia bucked the trend and just remained good friends. With that said, Cruz/Kelly was awful. And I missed CG's Kelly as she would have just remained as a little sister, IMO.

[Notorious]

Cruz/Kelly, IIRC, were under the final head writer, Pam Long. It was also Long who sidelined the Capwells for the awful new family with Kim Zimmer (whom Long worked with on Guiding Light) as the matriarch, and gave her a past with Cruz, including a daughter Cruz had no idea was his. Bleah.

 

The Walkers? I've seen clips. They were horrible, especially compared to the Capwells. 

 

I wish we could get a reboot online. 

[Alex127]

Hello everyone, SB was my favorite soap when I was a young teenager and I just recently saw many epis are on YT. In my opinion, SB was great until about 88 and then went downhill. I very much liked its original characters, Mason, Julia, Ted, Kelly, Eden, Cruz, Lionel, Augusta, CC, Sophia, Gina, Keith. I do not think there is any character that was my favorite, there were many, but I really disliked some story lines and some story lines I cannot understand in full, cause not all epis are online. Megan-Greg-Emily story was bad, boring, no energy, zero chemistry, when they left (thankfully) no one remembered them. Can anyone see the point in that story? Pamela arrival to town was interesting, but it was bad they broke CC and Sophia over that. Can anyone explain what went on between CC and Pamela during that time, except them sharing same passion for alcohol and using many brandies during their mate ship,  has CC really had a love affair with her, has he slept with her?and why did he wanted to kill her in the end? Mason-Victoria story was cool, but poor Tory was so boring, no energy, no chemistry with anyone - she was on for too long. Augusta and Lionel? What happened to them during the show, at some point they seemed to have disappeared and then they came back in the end, but they paired Lionel with Gina (how crazy is that?). Lionel - I was not very fond of him, I preferred CC. Lionel was somewhat weak and shallow, and would have taken any opportunity he got to sleep with Sophia, he was somewhat likable, but lacked depth. CC was stubborn most of his time, but certainly strong male whom Lionel could never match, which is why CC was a bigger challenge to Sophia. Some of CC-Sophia fights got ridiculous at some point, she would sometimes totally loose compass and yelled at him when he was right and wrong (the two actors had great chemistry though). I liked Sophia during the first few years, but when she left with horrible TJ, that was a big cross. I do not understand why the writers made once loving and wise woman, a naive and desperate adulterer.  Ken-Sophia, CC-Santana story - awful. Eden split personality story, I am not sure on this one, on some parts it is interesting, because Eden suppressed her memories as a child of Sophia and Lionel, and it all came back during her adulthood. besides, Sophia never went to jail for murdering Channing, so this story was also some sort of bill for Sophia. Cruz-Kelly story was horrible, but Robert Barr coming to town was real treat and sadly they did not groom Robert as Kelly's love of life (do not understand why they never matched Kelly or Ted properly with anyone). Gina and Keith (Robin and Justin) were simply awesome. 

[WendyCR72]

I liked Kelly with Cruz's brother, Ric. But Carrington Garland's Kelly sparked with almost every guy the PTB threw at her: Craig, Ric, Robert, so I see why things went from Ric to Robert. (I think Robert/Kelly went off the rails with unknown twin Quinn - and killing Robert and having Quinn assume his identity!) Quinn should have died.

 

I do think [since I couldn't have Ric/Kelly] that Robert/Kelly could have been an OTP (one true pairing) thing...but the show probably thought if Robert remained, even in love with Kelly, he'd forever cast a shadow over Cruz/Eden (whom were always too perfect for my tastes. But I realize they were popular. Me, I adored Mason/Julia.), so Robert had to die. Which, to me, was a huge mistake, since, yeah, Kelly seemed to just flit around after that. (And I hated Eileen Davidson's take on the character. The Dobsons REALLY screwed up when they fired Carrington Garland!)

[Alex127]

Hi!  I used to lurk  at TWOP (well, mostly ... posted a few times), but just wanted to introduce myself.  Just got into Santa Barbara recently and am still trying to string everything together, which is difficult to do on YT.  

 

I f'love Mason & Julia .. they are now my favorite soap couple ever!  LD/NLG were magic!  Pure and simple.  I also enjoyed TL/GT in the roles as they were good actors and had chemistry with NLG, though not nearly as much as LD. 

 

Also, love Lionel/Augusta; CC/Sofia; and Keith/Gina (even though I couldn't stand her during the Sonny Sprocket storyline).  I like Cruz and Eden as well, but not as much as the others.  I tend to like them more with other characters than each other.  I also really like Ted's good guy persona, especially in contrast to Mason's broodiness .  

 

Such a great show overall.  Well-written, acted, and directed, even when some of the story lines seemed a little "silly."  The Capwell Zone episode springs to mind.  Weird, cheesy premise, but the writers and actors make it work.  In fact, I kinda loved it.

 

While I'm happy to have discovered the awesomeness that is Santa Barbara (and, of course, Mason and Julia), I'm disappointed that I'm a little late to the party so to speak.  It's difficult to find many people who want discuss the show anymore.  Hopefully, I've finally found the right place :)

 

Any chance they'll release the entire series on DVD?

 

ETA:  So sad about Phyllis French.  I loved her as Sister Sarah. Such a wonderful actress.  May she rest in peace.

I just saw the  Capwell zone epi yesterday and do not quite know what to make of it, except that it was quite entertaining. 

I liked Kelly with Cruz's brother, Ric. But Carrington Garland's Kelly sparked with almost every guy the PTB threw at her: Craig, Ric, Robert, so I see why things went from Ric to Robert. (I think Robert/Kelly went off the rails with unknown twin Quinn - and killing Robert and having Quinn assume his identity!) Quinn should have died.

 

I do think [since I couldn't have Ric/Kelly] that Robert/Kelly could have been an OTP (one true pairing) thing...but the show probably thought if Robert remained, even in love with Kelly, he'd forever cast a shadow over Cruz/Eden (whom were always too perfect for my tastes. But I realize they were popular. Me, I adored Mason/Julia.), so Robert had to die. Which, to me, was a huge mistake, since, yeah, Kelly seemed to just flit around after that. (And I hated Eileen Davidson's take on the character. The Dobsons REALLY screwed up when they fired Carrington Garland!)

You are right on Kelly, she had just great chem with anyone, the thing is that Eden and Cruz both left the show, so it might have been wise to groom Kelly with Robert as their successors. Elieen Davison as Kelly was horrible, she looked old and almost like Sophia's sister than daughter, though she was a good actress just not good cast for Kelly. I must say I am not familiar with the full Robert-Quinn-Kelly story, someone is just uploding epis about this on net, so must wait.

[whitelighter27]

I know this is completely moot-point since there's no way to go back & change it, but  if there was some way to magically insert Eden into the opening scene - at Channing's party, - what do you think she might've said? She probably would've looked much the same as she did in the flashbacks of her & Robert on the island of Las Serenas.  I can imagine her making some joke about Channing always flirting with her friends, or about Channing being a tough act to follow. Somehow I also envision that Mason's resentment  would've been more apparent if Eden had been present as well. As it was, Mason made some light-hearted joke about how his girlfriends were too often Channing's rejects, so we only get a vague sense of sibling-rivalry.

Edited April 21, 2016 by whitelighter27

[AndySmith]

Carrington Garland was really great in this role. I think she retired after her time on SB? Which was a shame.

 

So what years of this show do people consider the "Golden Era"?

[cleo]

I really liked CG in the role, even more that Robin Wright, though I assume that is a UO.

 

Best years? Here's my bias, I hate Kelly and skipped all of her storylines. I primarily watched stories related to Eden and Mason and Julia, to a lesser extent CC and Sophia.

 

I thought the best years were 84-86. 1987, 1988, 1989 increasing were unwatchable to me, and there's large sections I skipped. I started enjoying it again somewhere around 1990. I liked all of the stories involving Robert Barr which is maybe unpopular? I also liked Robert and Eden together and wish they had taken that further, even if she did eventually go back to Cruz. I loved the Lisa storyline (another UO I'm sure) right up until she went over the cliff. All of that Suzanne nonsense drove me away from the show permanently. 

 

Flame and Cassandra seemed like interesting additions to the cast to me, and the first new characters in a long time that I bothered to watch. 

[Eolivet]

Clearly massively unpopular opinion, but I started watching Santa Barbara in 1991 as a high school student, so I was drawn to the much maligned Walker family, and Cruz's heretofore unknown daughter, BJ. BJ's relationship with Warren (poor Jack Wagner, slumming it on SB) was my favorite storyline, and his support as she worked through her sexual abuse, Frank's murder, etc., was catnip to a young, impressionable teen such as myself.

The reason I'm posting is I was randomly watching old clips on YouTube, and was shocked to see that even back in 1991, during a romantic scene between Warren and BJ, the show addressed the issue of enthusiastic consent. Warren asked BJ if it was "all right" before they continued making out (and she even then initiated further making out -- of course, she then stabbed him with scissors, but that's neither here nor there). Just surprised how progressive Santa Barbara was for its time. And surprisingly well-written. Happy it holds up 20+ years later (although older, wiser me is mildly squicked by the age difference between Warren and BJ now, as well as that she was an abuse victim, but their chemistry was great).

I'll slink away now and take my unpopular opinions with me.