formerlyfreedom December 7, 2015 Share December 7, 2015 As Sunny secures his escape from the Fort, Quinn grows suspicious. Meanwhile, The Widow's decisions set her on a collision course with Sunny and M.K. Link to comment
paigow December 7, 2015 Share December 7, 2015 The River King put Sunny & M.K. on a collision course..... Link to comment
Greta December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 Sunny must be a saint, despite spending his entire adult life killing people in service to a despot. It's the only explanation for why he didn't even look tempted just once to lop MK's head off. Although MK was less annoying this episode. So is Jade dead? I'm semi-interested in Ryder and Waldo's history and in the Badlands religion Lydia's father heads up. 1 Link to comment
paigow December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 the Badlands religion Lydia's father heads up.... Yay for the return of Frank Black / Bishop! Grandpa apparently runs the local League of Shadows / Assassins Ryder: Grandpa, what is this? Grandpa: Useless fairy tale crap... Ryder: Ok Bye. Grandpa: [to minion]: We have to kill everyone at The Fort... The Widow seems to overestimate her skills... A healthy Quinn would have killed her Sunny would have killed her if M.K. did not use the Force. 4 Link to comment
Yolapukka December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 (edited) If Jade's not dead, I'm almost willing to bet money she staged her poisoning to take down Lydia. Ryder toned down his overwhelming shittiness in the scene with Waldo. I might have enjoyed their connection if he wasn't so awful. At least I enjoyed Waldo. I loved seeing Lance Henrikson as his grandfather, but I know I'm going to thoroughly hate the character already. Edited December 14, 2015 by yuggapukka 2 Link to comment
JohnSmithSensei December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 Widow better shape up as a fighter if her group plans to bring down the current world order. This is the second time she got outperformed by a main player in a fight. Even Zephyr seemed more impressive against Sunny, but then again she's a regent. Link to comment
thuganomics85 December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 Yeah, I really love The Widow or at least the actress playing her, but she really has been getting her ass beat, once she cross paths with one of the other regulars. Granted, in the case with Sunny, I think the show has kind of cornered themselves, because they have established him as the ultimate badass, so I would have found it strange if he suddenly was getting his ass beat by her. But they need to do something to really sell her as a threat, because at times, I feel like it is more that she's just got lucky. Should have known that Lydia and Jade "bonding", was going to lead to something bad. Lydia is the obvious suspect, but if Jade ends up surviving, I can totally see it being she poisoned herself, in order to make Quinn think Lydia did it. Also, between her outfits and her whole "One with the common people" persona, I really am seeing the comparisons I've read elsewhere between her and Game of Thrones' Margaery Tyrell (which gives me extra amusement, since Sarah Bolger and Natalie Dormer were both in The Tudors.) So, Quinn and Veil just let it all out, but she decided not to kill him, after-all? Why not? Not seeing what she is going to gain from this. Ryder's scene with Waldo was the only time I didn't want to punch him. M.K. continues to be my least favorite thing about this show. Link to comment
enchantingmonkey December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 Tilda killed a grown man a few episodes back. She should have wiped the floor with that kid. I know they needed a reason for M.K. to cut himself. The Widow continues to be my favorite part of the show. Perhaps getting lucky in the past is why she currently overestimates her abilities. Sometimes a bit of luck leads one to a bit of delusion. I also see her as having a Savior complex, so perhaps she puts herself in these situations because she thinks she has to. Any thoughts on Tilda being The Widow's biological daughter? It seems like all of the girls call her "Mother" and all of the girls call each other "Sister". I'm not sure if The Widow has any biological children. I've seen plenty of complaints about the kid playing M.K. but he doesn't bother me much. Probably because I keep telling myself he's Avatar Aang. 1 Link to comment
paigow December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 So, Quinn and Veil just let it all out, but she decided not to kill him, after-all? Why not? Sunny warned her that Quinn was more valuable to them alive than dead to keep the other barons occupied. 1 Link to comment
Stardancer Supreme December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 (edited) If Jade's not dead, I'm almost willing to bet money she staged her poisoning to take down Lydia. Ryder toned down his overwhelming shittiness in the scene with Waldo. I might have enjoyed their connection if he wasn't so awful. At least I enjoyed Waldo. I loved seeing Lance Henrikson as his grandfather, but I know I'm going to thoroughly hate the character already. Or it was Ryder who offed stepmommy #2. I can't see Lydia working the poppy fields to the point of getting blisters then poisoning Jade. I can see Ryder beginning to execute his plan to take his father down. Don't think it would work in his favor, but yeah. Like I said before, any Clipper who isn't Sunny or Waldo ain't shit. I liked M.K. for about 2 minutes in this ep. Then he fainted again after going Super Saiyan on that colt. Back to severe dislike! So Quinn is going to try to get Veil on his side. Snake. Is it Sunday yet? Edited December 14, 2015 by Stardancer Supreme Link to comment
SimoneS December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 (edited) Should have known that Lydia and Jade "bonding", was going to lead to something bad. Lydia is the obvious suspect, but if Jade ends up surviving, I can totally see it being she poisoned herself, in order to make Quinn think Lydia did it. I think that this is exactly what happened. Jade set up Lydia, probably to get rid of her now that she has turned on Ryder. It would be much easier for Jade to kill Quinn and help Ryder become the new baron if Lydia was banished. After all, everyone knows that there is something wrong with Quinn's health so if he died sooner than later, most people wouldn't be suspicious. There is no way that this plan could unfold with Lydia in the picture. I would think that they need to get rid of Sunny next as they could not be sure if he would accept Quinn's death or fight to be the next baron. Edited December 14, 2015 by SimoneS 1 Link to comment
Yolapukka December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 (edited) So Quinn is going to try to get Veil on his side. Snake. I think he wants to try to nail Veil because, sex. Mainly I think he wants to mess with Sunny for a number of reasons. For one, he is displeased with Sunny for defying him over killing Veil's parents. Also, he wants what he sees as a worthy successor so he's trying to provoke his son and his regent into turning on him by taking" their" women. He wants to provoke one into killing him and then the two of them consequently taking each other on. Edited December 14, 2015 by yuggapukka 1 Link to comment
johntfs December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 I think Quinn wants to nail Veil because Madeline Mantock is center of the sun hot and his brain tumor is screwing with his self-preservation instincts. 1 1 Link to comment
that one guy December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 So I realized watching this one that I'm totally on Team Widow here. She's the only one who seems to stand for anything. Charging in alone to rescue her daughter was fairly stupid, but it makes her the only person on the show willing to stick her neck out for someone else. Sunny will help you if it's not too much trouble, otherwise he'll kill you. Anyway, the action on this show is cool, but the chacterizations are extremely shallow so far, and if we're being shallow then I'm for the hot redhead every time. Yeah, I really love The Widow or at least the actress playing her, but she really has been getting her ass beat, once she cross paths with one of the other regulars. Granted, in the case with Sunny, I think the show has kind of cornered themselves, because they have established him as the ultimate badass, so I would have found it strange if he suddenly was getting his ass beat by her. But they need to do something to really sell her as a threat, because at times, I feel like it is more that she's just got lucky. She's fast and well trained, but she's not as strong as Quinn nor as fast as Sunny. Her threat is more ideological than physical, because she's undermining the patriarchal Baronial system just by existing. But I do feel she could take most of the rank and file Clippers. It appears you get to be Baron or Regent by being the best fighter, and often by killing your predecessor, so it makes sense that people in these offices are tougher to beat. But that's a weird and stupid system,and one which you'd think the incumbents would quickly move to de-legitimize once they were in office. They could have explained this better by having someone challenge Quinn and lose in the first episode or something like that. I think Quinn is deeply invested in the system for some reason, and would rather have his son, or Sunny, kill him and take over than to die slowly of brain cancer. Not because he's a wuss about dying, but because a prolonged illness would cause instability. Possibly he's decided Junior is unfit, and is trying to provoke Sunny to take power. I really don't know where this is going, because I expected Quinn to be dead by now, but he keeps hanging around. Yay for the return of Frank Black / Bishop! I thought that looked like him, but I wasn't sure. Damn, if Bishop's 30 years older, that means I am too. That sucks. 5 Link to comment
qtpye December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 The widow is a much more compelling character then Quinn, who seems to have learned his acting from the school of stereotypical southern villainy, complete with bad accent. 2 Link to comment
paigow December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 Was there an editing glitch? Quinn is bellowing .."HELP ME" in the bedroom, then "minutes" later, he is in the dungeon..What did I miss? 2 Link to comment
paigow December 14, 2015 Share December 14, 2015 I think Quinn wants to nail Veil because Madeline Mantock is center of the sun hot and his brain tumor is screwing with his self-preservation instincts. Quinn: Are you angry that I killed your parents? Trivialities such as that should not reduce my innate charm... Veil: Of course Baron...let me give you this injection that will increase your stamina 10 fold... 3 Link to comment
rogueprinzess December 15, 2015 Share December 15, 2015 I liked this episode, mostly because we got a bit more background on Lydia and her history. I also enjoyed hearing about Quinn/Lydia's past and seeing them display the connection that has been hinted at since episode 1. I do think that Jade poisoned herself to frame Lydia. Now that Lydia's tossed her idiot-child to the side, her focus is back on being Quinn's number 2. So I think Jade realized that a drastic move would be necessary. Mind you, I have a theory that Jade is the Widow's mole. I actually like that we saw the Widow get beaten again, not because I don't like her (I think she's brilliant) but to show the realism of her situation. If my assumptions are true, I don't think the Widow's trained nearly as long as Sunny or Quinn have. I think she was likely doing it in secret (from her late husband) at first and then stepped it up once he died. So it makes sense that Quinn & Sunny who've been training since childhood would have more skill than she, and they've certainly seen more battle as Clipper/former clipper. As mentioned upthread, the widow's power is in her strategic mind and manipulation, which is dangerous on a completely different level. I feel like the only reason she learned to fight at all was a) to protect herself from pervs like her dead hubby and 2) because the Barons of the Badlands hold the ability to fight/kill in high esteem. I don't understand why Sunny keeps trying to hide all things Azra from Veil. It's highly likely that he (and a good number of cogs) come from there or wherever "up river" is. It just doesn't make sense; I don't see what he has to gain from keeping her in the dark. I also have a theory that Sunny is a "dark one" from Azra, but like a prototype for what MK is now. I think he may have killed the people that he was with (in his flashback) as a kid and doesn't remember, and that his superior fighting skills are a result of whatever the mojo is that MK has going on. I think the Baron saw this at an early age and hence why he's so desperate to keep Sunny around as his secret weapon. I mean, Quinn didn't look all that surprised by what MK could do. I get why Veil didn't kill the Baron; he made a very true statement "I guess we're both slaves to our nature" - Quinn's being adversarial and non-trusting and Veils being kind and merciful. Killing in cold blood is something that Veil would consider as an act akin to what Quinn did to her parents, and she seems the type that would rather die than be like him. I do wonder if she'll be naive enough to believe Quinn about who killed her parents, but it's hard to say. Quinn's working over time to drive a wedge in between them. The whole MK/Tilda/Random-Colt-to-be sacrificed fight was meh. It obvi only served to show Quinn what MK can do and add yet another snag to Sunny's exit plan. Link to comment
Bama December 15, 2015 Share December 15, 2015 I haven't seen any speculation about who The Widow's "person in the fort" is. Obviously the audience saw Ryder make a handshake alliance with The Widow and Zephyr just last week, so if that line was referring to Ryder it would be awfully stupid for the writers to not have her say "Get with Ryder so I can sneak in the fort and get Tilda". And the fact that The Widow didn't use a he or she pronoun, is interesting. The Widow got into the fort through the tunnel in the poppy fields and Jade sure was hot to trot about getting out in the poppy fields to work. Makes my wonder if Jade, with her populist "Let's treat the cogs like real people" campaign, might not be another Widow sympathizer and is playing the long con by marrying Quinn with designs on taking over his territory. Link to comment
johntfs December 15, 2015 Share December 15, 2015 (edited) I don't understand why Sunny keeps trying to hide all things Azra from Veil. It's highly likely that he (and a good number of cogs) come from there or wherever "up river" is. It just doesn't make sense; I don't see what he has to gain from keeping her in the dark. I also have a theory that Sunny is a "dark one" from Azra, but like a prototype for what MK is now. I think he may have killed the people that he was with (in his flashback) as a kid and doesn't remember, and that his superior fighting skills are a result of whatever the mojo is that MK has going on. I think the Baron saw this at an early age and hence why he's so desperate to keep Sunny around as his secret weapon. I mean, Quinn didn't look all that surprised by what MK could do. I disagree with this. Daniel Wu is 41. Assuming Sunny is the same age, Sunny has likely been training/fighting/killing for a good 30+ years or so. He's really, really good at it, but he's good at it in a conventional way. What MK does is something near supernatural. Also, consider that Grandpa only mentioned the "Dark One" once he saw the amulet. The thing with Quinn is that he wants all the "worthy" people to be exclusively loyal to him. Veil is competent, capable and, yes, really, really pretty. He wants to break her connection to Sunny and reforge it with himself. Likewise, he wants to break Sunny up with Veil and refocus his loyalty onto himself. It does occur to me that with the dead Colt, Sunny does have a head that's the right shape/age. A little punching and hair dye could turn it into "MK's" head. Ultimately the River King doesn't need MK's head, he just needs a suitable head to be able to show that he "got" the butcher who shamed him. It's interesting that the Widow now has two things that MK wants/needs, Tilda and knowledge of the book. Edited December 15, 2015 by johntfs 1 Link to comment
rogueprinzess December 15, 2015 Share December 15, 2015 (edited) I disagree with this. Daniel Wu is 41. Assuming Sunny is the same age, Sunny has likely been training/fighting/killing for a good 30+ years or so. He's really, really good at it, but he's good at it in a conventional way. What MK does is something near supernatural. Also, consider that Grandpa only mentioned the "Dark One" once he saw the amulet. YMMV. To me, the show has made Sunny out to be some untouchably amazing fighter. It's not to say that he can never be defeated, but we heard at least a few times that Sunny is undefeated and has the most kills. Yes, that can just be skill, but considering that there's a good chance Sunny's from Azra (as indicated by the compass that he's had since childhood) it's not that far-fetched to me that he could have been a "test subject" or someone who's been through something similar to MK. I should mention that I'm looking at this from the standpoint that what's happened to MK is a scientific-like thing, not necessarily supernatural. It's complete fanwanking since we still don't know what caused the world to turn into a place where the Badlands can exist and what places outside of it look like (i.e. do they have more technology? Are they more futuristic? Is the Badlands a huge experiment by a super advanced society looking on from above? Who knows). But digressing, assuming Azra is a tech-forward society, it's plausible that they've tested "super human/super soldier" type things on children for years and send the percieved failures to the Badlands. Sunny, having at least 20+ years on MK could have been such a subject but in an earlier stage that only afforded him better speed/agility/senses than the average person. But again, this is just a giant fanwank at this point. ICA that Quinn's actions are to divert loyalty back to him since he doesn't have any other mode than adversarial. Of course it won't work on Veil though, since her loyalty is motivated by love and kindness, two things Quinn knows little to nothing about (though we saw a bit of it with Lydia this episode) Edited December 15, 2015 by rogueprinzess 2 Link to comment
Stardancer Supreme December 15, 2015 Share December 15, 2015 To me, the show has made Sunny out to be some untouchably amazing fighter. It's not to say that he can never be defeated, but we heard at least a few times that Sunny is undefeated and has the most kills. Yes, that can just be skill, but considering that there's a good chance Sunny's from Azra (as indicated by the compass that he's had since childhood) it's not that far-fetched to me that he could have been a "test subject" or someone who's been through something similar to MK. That theory I can get behind. Consider the implications; from Sunny finding out his true origins to the baby Veil is now carrying. Then there is MK himself. He is trying his best to get back home to what? Perhaps to the very ones who created him. That would be an awesome story if the writers could pull it off. 2 Link to comment
qtpye December 15, 2015 Share December 15, 2015 Jade set up Lydia, probably to get rid of her now that she has turned on Ryder. It would be much easier for Jade to kill Quinn and help Ryder become the new baron if Lydia was banished. This is a good theory. I am just happy that the younger woman is doing more then being sexy eye candy. I like that they have taken the time to make her more interesting. This show might have potential. 4 Link to comment
rogueprinzess December 15, 2015 Share December 15, 2015 That theory I can get behind. Consider the implications; from Sunny finding out his true origins to the baby Veil is now carrying. Then there is MK himself. He is trying his best to get back home to what? Perhaps to the very ones who created him. That would be an awesome story if the writers could pull it off. Ooh, and if his "mother" was actually someone who participated in/administered the very thing that turned him into what he is, complete with death as the side effect? Could be some Terminator Salvation type stuff right there. Link to comment
Tarasme December 15, 2015 Share December 15, 2015 Tilda killed a grown man a few episodes back. She should have wiped the floor with that kid. ... Any thoughts on Tilda being The Widow's biological daughter? It seems like all of the girls call her "Mother" and all of the girls call each other "Sister". I'm not sure if The Widow has any biological children. As for Tilda and the colt, wasn't Tilda tied up and tortured for, well, awhile prior to their exchange? She wasn't at her best... I don't believe The Widow has any bio children. She's chosen, for a myriad of reasons, to include/ adopt all of those women, including Tilda. From what I recall a few eps back, Tilda was part of the baron's household- he assaulted her thereby instigating The Widow's revolution. Maybe The Widow has some really young biokids, but I don't think we've heard anything conclusive towards that idea. So Quinn is going to try to get Veil on his side. Snake. Of all the revolting things Quinn does, for some reason, this manipulation is the most detestable to me. Talk about an abuse of power. Good god. Then he insists Sunny stop seeing her. I'm not sure if I'd prefer someone get all stabby with him or if he dies, paralyzed and alone in a refuse soaked bed after thirty years of being at the mercy of all others. I think he wants to try to nail Veil because, sex. Mainly I think he wants to mess with Sunny for a number of reasons. For one, he is displeased with Sunny for defying him over killing Veil's parents. Also, he wants what he sees as a worthy successor so he's trying to provoke his son and his regent into turning on him by taking" their" women. He wants to provoke one into killing him and then the two of them consequently taking each other on. I see your point but I'm not convinced Quinn does anything for sex. For power yes and if power is achieved through sex, then ok. When Veil called him out (I think it was Veil) as being in a constant state of war- including war with himself physically and emotionally- I think it was a very insightful analysis. Actually, I think it was Veil's understanding of Quinn that caused him to go for her emotional jugular and point blame for her parents' death at Sunny. If it reduces his threat by undermining the bonds of any that might possibly unite against him, then whoowhoo. So I realized watching this one that I'm totally on Team Widow here. She's the only one who seems to stand for anything. Charging in alone to rescue her daughter was fairly stupid, but it makes her the only person on the show willing to stick her neck out for someone else.... I'm a fan of The Widow too. I like that she could have stayed at the top of the existing hierarchy, accepting all the benefits of the baron's household, but was willing to sacrifice it to protect those that could not protect themselves. Her scheme to remove the baron, usurp him, then overturn the order of things could have/could be failing- it could all end with her death at any time. She sacrificed her relative safety to get something better for everyone. At least, that's what it looks like to me. Could turn out that she merely trades one class of oppressed people for another, but I don't think so. I haven't seen any speculation about who The Widow's "person in the fort" is.... Makes my wonder if Jade, with her populist "Let's treat the cogs like real people" campaign, might not be another Widow sympathizer and is playing the long con by marrying Quinn with designs on taking over his territory. I haven't thought much about it but that line- "person in the fort"- did catch my attention. I hope it's someone that hasn't occurred to us yet. As for Jade- I don't see Jade and The Widow working together but I absolutely see them as two sides to the same coin. I don't think Jade has (or had) designs on taking over but I do think she'd do almost anything to change the status quo. BTW- didn't Quinn take a spoonful or two of that soup? Did I look away and miss that only Jade ate dinner out of that bowl? Yes, that can just be skill, but considering that there's a good chance Sunny's from Azra (as indicated by the compass that he's had since childhood) it's not that far-fetched to me that he could have been a "test subject" or someone who's been through something similar to MK. I should mention that I'm looking at this from the standpoint that what's happened to MK is a scientific-like thing, not necessarily supernatural.... Yeah- this had occurred to me earlier in the season. That Sunny shares some of the same enhancements as MK. I kinda hope it is supernatural; I'd love to see a world play out where regular humanity becomes so twisted that some kind of spiritual remedy/supernatural power evolves or is majicked/provoked. Too Marvel-y? Sorry. *g* 2 Link to comment
paigow December 15, 2015 Share December 15, 2015 (edited) Azra cannot be some paradise / utopia...assuming it is the source of "cogs" / slaves in the Badlands. The rulers of Azra are complicit in the slave trade. Possibility 1. Human factors of production are the only assets that Azra can offer the Barons in exchange for peace. Possibility 2. The ruling class of Azra is addicted to opium and trades people for drugs. Possibility 3. Azra runs people farms, or captures drifters, or harvests its indigent population for the River King. Possibility 4. The reason nobody escapes the Badlands is that Azra sends them back. Edited December 15, 2015 by paigow 1 Link to comment
Yolapukka December 15, 2015 Share December 15, 2015 (edited) I'm not convinced Quinn does anything for sex. Quinn doesn't need to do anything for sex. As Baron, he seems to have a right to the women under his sphere of influence. He is not a forcible rapist but he is someone for whom compliance is expected and because of his power, there will always be an element of coercion whatever the degree of willingness. I don't believe he expects to get Veil entirely on his side, but he does want to divide her from Sunny because it suits his view of their places in his world, because it could result in a conflict he wishes to precipitate and also because he finds Veil desirable. I think it is important to him that both Veil and Sunny are aware that he could have sex with her whenever he wants and that he has an interest in her. Or similarly; The thing with Quinn is that he wants all the "worthy" people to be exclusively loyal to him. Veil is competent, capable and, yes, really, really pretty. He wants to break her connection to Sunny and reforge it with himself. Likewise, he wants to break Sunny up with Veil and refocus his loyalty onto himself. Edited December 16, 2015 by yuggapukka Link to comment
Netfoot December 15, 2015 Share December 15, 2015 You know, I don't care where anybody comes from, or where they're going to. So long as there is some Class One Ass-Kicking each episode, that's all I need. The only reason I pay attention to the rest of the episode is in order to help anticipate the next bout. Link to comment
paigow December 16, 2015 Share December 16, 2015 But digressing, assuming Azra is a tech-forward society, it's plausible that they've tested "super human/super soldier" type things on children for years and send the percieved failures to the Badlands. Interesting theory. but if Azra is creating an army of Captain Americas, what is the endgame? Conquer the Badlands by eradicating all the Barons? What prevents the super army from taking over Azra instead? Link to comment
rogueprinzess December 16, 2015 Share December 16, 2015 Interesting theory. but if Azra is creating an army of Captain Americas, what is the endgame? Conquer the Badlands by eradicating all the Barons? What prevents the super army from taking over Azra instead? Those are very good questions my friend. Ones that i could speculate to death on but really have no basis for since the only thing the show's told us about Azra is that it's outside the Badlands. My assumption about Azra being a bit more tech-forward kinda comes from their "city" symbol/emblem that's on the compass, book and amulet. It looks like a bunch of tall buildings bunched together like a metropolis, and I think it was Ryder who mentioned that he didn't know of anyone in the Badlands that could even do the craftsmanship/use the materials that were used on the amulet. But yeah, at this point Azra could be trying to turn themselves into a city of Captain Americas, or just create a "mindless" army of them to protect them against other rivals (at this point we don't know if there are other cities/areas out there besides Azra & the Badlands, but if both places are based in what used to be the U.S., there's way too much land to assume that there aren't other cities/territories of some kind. Link to comment
candall December 21, 2015 Share December 21, 2015 Azra cannot be some paradise / utopia...assuming it is the source of "cogs" / slaves in the Badlands. The rulers of Azra are complicit in the slave trade. Possibility 1. Human factors of production are the only assets that Azra can offer the Barons in exchange for peace. Possibility 2. The ruling class of Azra is addicted to opium and trades people for drugs. Possibility 3. Azra runs people farms, or captures drifters, or harvests its indigent population for the River King. Possibility 4. The reason nobody escapes the Badlands is that Azra sends them back. Ah, a frying pan/fire situation. Yeah, I'm missing TWD, too, Paigow. Link to comment
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