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The Residents of Hell's Kitchen: JJ vs DD

Tarasme

By Tarasme
in Jessica Jones [V]

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Tarasme

Tarasme

(edited)

Jessica Jones series spoilers- if you haven't watched it all, you might want to stop here.

 

Part of what I enjoyed about the Jessica Jones run was the directly shared 'verse with Marvel's DareDevil (doing an abbreviated re-watch now!). 

 

Of course, it was awesome to see Rosario Dawson's Claire in the last two (two right?) JJ eps. 

 

Throughout the JJ series, I thought how much better Jessica et al would be served if Matt or Foggy represented the variety of jailed characters. Maybe Matt would be more susceptible to Kilgrave, maybe not- at least Wendy would have been spared that gruesome, gratuitous death (blech).

 

It's interesting to me to contrast the solitude and isolation of the characters in Jessica Jones versus the camaraderie and teamwork in DareDevil. Matt knows he needs his friends- even when he's beating himself up for using them or they're beating themselves up for using one another. In JJ, so much time is spent on Jessica's reluctance to accept help and her insistence on going it alone- and still everyone is in danger (though- granted- it's usually- but not exclusively- proximity to Jessica that puts one on Kilgrave's radar). 

 

Though, in comparison, even though Matt and Jessica both pull away from their best friends to do what they need to do, they both rejoin with those people to become better together than apart.

 

And in a Fisk vs Kilgrave face off? I'd take Fisk every. single. time. Kilgrave might get lucky, but Fisk would have planned so far ahead that- I think- any Kilgrave victory would have immediately resulted in his demise.

 

It'll be cool to see if future installments further integrate the two stories. If I understand correctly, Claire 

has a comic book romance with Luke. I've only seen summaries of this, though. I haven't read that story in particular.

 

There's so much to compare and contrast between the two series. Thoughts?

Edited by Tarasme
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Eegah

Eegah

Matt is the ONLY hero in the MCU so far who actually bothers with a secret identity, right? Which made it pretty amusing that it took him until the end of his first season to actually pick up an official superhero name. This show found a nice counterbalance for that; if Jessica was going to be a hero, she'd just do it as herself, and people can either get behind that or not, she doesn't care.

 

Her turning down Claire's offer to call in Daredevil got me thinking: given that Matt's abilities are dependent on his own senses, would Kilgrave have gotten any more out of him than any normal person? His fighting skills, yeah, but that's about it, I think. And of course, there's the fact that he's immune to Kilgrave's powers in the comics.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Fisk is more physically intimidating, but Killgrave can control minds, Fisk wouldn't have time to prepare. All Killgrave has to do is speak and Fisk would be under his control. As we saw with Luke charging after him, Killgrave said "Stop" and Luke couldn't move. 

 

I would love to see Jessica and Matt meet. And yes, he would be more willing to help the people Jessica's saving. I hope he is need of PI and Claire recommends Jessica because than he could go with her to find whoever or whatever they are looking for since she's gifted too. Foggy's reaction to Jessica would be pretty great as well. And how hilarious would it be to see tiny, skinny Jessica lift Fisk off the ground with one hand. 

 

It does Matt look more silly wearing that costume while Jessica doesn't hide who she is. I wonder if they'll have her wear a costume in the Defenders. 

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Tarasme

Tarasme

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(edited)

Fisk is more physically intimidating, but Killgrave can control minds, Fisk wouldn't have time to prepare. All Killgrave has to do is speak and Fisk would be under his control. As we saw with Luke charging after him, Killgrave said "Stop" and Luke couldn't move. 

 

I would love to see Jessica and Matt meet. And yes, he would be more willing to help the people Jessica's saving. I hope he is need of PI and Claire recommends Jessica because than he could go with her to find whoever or whatever they are looking for since she's gifted too. Foggy's reaction to Jessica would be pretty great as well. And how hilarious would it be to see tiny, skinny Jessica lift Fisk off the ground with one hand. 

 

 

My thoughts on this are that Fisk- he who had the Kitchen in such fear that no one would even speak his name (and the first time in series someone does- he promptly puts rebar through his own brain)- would be the first to know who Kilgrave is, what his motivations are, how he can be manipulated/ what his currency is, and how to protect himself as much as he is able.

 

Fisk is factors smarter than I am, so I have no idea *how* he'd protect himself, but I believe he would. I doubt it would have anything to do with being immune or insusceptible to Kilgrave, rather, he'd have a complex web of contingencies in place should he be Kilgraved.

 

And ITA about a meeting between Matt and Jess. Hee. I think they need to play beer pong.

Edited by Tarasme
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Dandesun

Dandesun

 

It does Matt look more silly wearing that costume while Jessica doesn't hide who she is. I wonder if they'll have her wear a costume in the Defenders. 

 

Matt is pretty devoted to his secret identity. I think the only other person whose identity is that secret is Peter Parker. A lot of heroes don't bother with that anymore. And given that Matt is a lawyer and a costumed vigilante, the need for the secrecy is there. He's doing something very illegal as an officer of the law. Jessica is a PI so she's already used to skirting legality.

 

As for costumes, Jessica doesn't have one. She had one as Jewel in the comics (and I thought bringing that costume in was brilliantly done on the show) but she pretty steadfastly refuses to be a part of a superhero team. She's a 'consultant' to various teams but she just doesn't do that. So Daredevil has a costume and Iron Fist has a costume. Luke had one but he's pretty much left that behind and just tends to wear black pants and a yellow shit. I think it would be pretty funny to have Daredevil and Iron Fist in their costumes with Jessica and Luke in plainclothes as they fight whatever they're going to fight.

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Bec

Bec

Yeah, Matt needs to hide his identity or he would be disbarred already. Anyway, if everyone knew Daredevil is blind, that would give them an edge over him, which would be bad.

 

Now that we know Kilgrave's power was a virus and had apparently nothing to do with sight, I guess Daredevil would not be immune to his commands. And if Matt tried plugging up his ears, that would be a major impediment since he doesn't have sight to make up for the loss of hearing. Not that we really have to worry about it anymore with Kilgrave killed, but it's fun to think about what-ifs!

 

It was interesting that both DD and JJ pondered the question of "to kill or not to kill" for just about their entire first season, and came to completely different conclusions. And both decisions made sense and was fitting with the situation as presented. Wasn't Kilgrave a Daredevil villain in the comics? I just wiki-ed it, but I have no idea how Daredevil vs. Kilgrave turned out. It might have been cool to see how Daredevil would handle Kilgrave and how Jessica Jones would handle Wilson Fisk.

 

I'm pretty disappointed Matt didn't actually show up in this show at all. Maybe the writers thought he would overshadow Jessica too much. They wouldn't want to have it be like Jessica can't take care of things without some other superhero stepping in to do it for her. It's not his show, it's her show, the final victory has to be hers, I get that. But seriously, not even a little cameo as a lawyer? They kept teasing it, too, with all those times Jeri didn't want to represent someone because their case sucked. Then Claire outright offering to call him! I was like "Yes! Call him!" but of course Jessica didn't want his help. Boo. But probably for the best. If Kilgrave got ahold of his mad ass-kicking skillz, I can only imagine the carnage.

 

I did notice one thing when I went back to watch the Claire scenes on Daredevil. Like Jessica, he offered her a drink (and was day-drinking in that episode), and she also didn't want a drink then. Symmetry! Hee.

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JustaPerson

JustaPerson

(edited)

 

Now that we know Kilgrave's power was a virus and had apparently nothing to do with sight, I guess Daredevil would not be immune to his commands.

 

I believe someone in one of the episode threads mentioned that in the comics Matt is immune to Purple Man's powers. 

 

From wiki: Not everyone is susceptible to his mind-control abilities. Doctor Doom has demonstrated that his supreme willpower can easily overcome the Purple Man's powers, while Daredevil is able to resist because being blind allows him to focus his concentration on resisting the Purple Man's verbal commands.

Edited by JustaPerson
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Bec

Bec

Focus his concentration on resisting the Purple Man's commands? Does he learn this through trial and error, or can he somehow just do it right off the bat? Now I'm curious. I wonder where I can find the comics that this story appears in. Hee.

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AimingforYoko

AimingforYoko

I could also see Jessica being hired as a PI on a Murdoch/Foggy case. That would be an organic crossover, like how Claire crossed over because she's a nurse in a neighborhood hospital.

In the comics, they seemed to prefer Dakota North. But for Netflix purposes, I'm sure they'll keep it in the neighborhood.
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Sakura12

Sakura12

I could also see Jessica being hired as a PI on a Murdoch/Foggy case. That would be an organic crossover, like how Claire crossed over because she's a nurse in a neighborhood hospital. 

 

And they could easily connect it more with Claire recommending Jessica to Matt. 

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questionfear

questionfear

And they could easily connect it more with Claire recommending Jessica to Matt. 

Exactly!

 

These shows all seem more rooted in the everyday and the realistic (with people getting hurt, getting stuck in traffic, having to charge their phones), so I think Claire as the connective tissue between the shows makes a ton of sense. It's a bit of a stretch for two small lawyers, a PI and a bar owner to randomly all cross paths, but given their powers/extracurricular activities it makes sense they'd all end up at the hospital. So it feels very realistic that Claire would be the person they all have in common, even before they meet each other. 

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Chaos Theory

Chaos Theory

(edited)

Exactly!

These shows all seem more rooted in the everyday and the realistic (with people getting hurt, getting stuck in traffic, having to charge their phones), so I think Claire as the connective tissue between the shows makes a ton of sense. It's a bit of a stretch for two small lawyers, a PI and a bar owner to randomly all cross paths, but given their powers/extracurricular activities it makes sense they'd all end up at the hospital. So it feels very realistic that Claire would be the person they all have in common, even before they meet each other.

That is one of the things I love about both shows. People bleed. One of the early minor storylines was Trish's bruises and where she was getting them.

I could definetly see Matt go up against Jeri in court in a seemingly innocent case that snowballs.:.:.

I can see Trish take those pills she got from Simpson and end up in the hospital. All these things make a great crossover.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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johntfs

johntfs

(edited)
On 11/24/2015 at 2:16 PM, Tarasme said:

Fisk is factors smarter than I am, so I have no idea *how* he'd protect himself, but I believe he would. I doubt it would have anything to do with being immune or insusceptible to Kilgrave, rather, he'd have a complex web of contingencies in place should he be Kilgraved.

Of course that assumes that he could predict the nature of the Kilgraving.  "Transfer control of your criminal organization to me" would give more reaction time than "Stab yourself through your eyes into your brain with those two icepicks."  The scariest part about Kilgrave is that you can't assume a rational, predictable action on his part.  He might make you give him your nice coat.  Then he might make you eat your own hands.  You just don't know.

Beyond all that we actually kind of know how Fisk handled Kilgrave - he and his people stayed the hell away from him.  I haven't seen Daredevil, but I assume that the show wasn't dominated by Fisk talking about losing people to some mind-controlling British lunatic.  We also know that while Kilgrave took pains to avoid evidence of his existence he couldn't completely erase everything, including people's memories - and he didn't kill everyone he Kilgraved.  Assuming that Fisk is/was as smart as you guys indicate he is, he's more likely to dope out Kilgrave's existence than the reverse.  Even if Kilgrave learned of Fisk's existence, he wouldn't necessarily do anything about it unless he felt threatened or wanted something from Fisk.  Kilgrave never really did anything too big like control the President or something.  Figure that's another reason Fisk left him alone.  Fisk knew if he took a shot and missed (and who knew what Kilgrave could do?  What if somebody shot him in the head with a sniper rifle and the bastard just spit the bullet out?) it would likely cause more problems than it solved.  Hell, maybe Kilgrave could send the Avengers after Fisk with instructions to tear Fisk limb from limb after murdering his family in front of him.

Edited by johntfs
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