People in charge (supposedly)

[camussie]

Research on the internet seems to suggest people get paid whether or not they appear in the episode, regardless of being credited for it.

 

 

What that article says is they get paid for the episodes they appear in, whether it be for 5 seconds or the entire hour.

 

But that’s an exception. Industry insiders say most ensemble actors are paid by episode, not by season. The bad news for folks like Hurley, Sayid and that new bikini girl who got two lines last season: No episode, no pay. The good news: It doesn't matter whether the actor appears for five seconds or 25 minutes. The number of lines also doesn't matter. The pay, negotiated for each actor before the start of the season, is the same..

 

 

It also says they know the number of episodes they will be in

 

One more general rule: Before a season even starts shooting, each actor usually gets a  "guarantee" of a certain number of episodes. In other words, no surprises in the pay department.

 

Also I agree with this although I think it was Fox, rather than RM, who was behind letting everyone stay if they wanted 

 

I still believe Ryan whole they gave the  cast a choice if they wanted to stay or not was really they gave some of them they found were expendable a choice between limited regular or guest star.

 

 

I think after the media mess between seasons 2 and 3 Fox was loathe to get rid of anyone but they also weren't going to guarantee anyone but their leads (Cory, Chris, Lea, and Jane) more than a handful of episodes. So they gave them a choice - low guarantee or guest star.  Obviously most took a low guarantee which meant a set income but it also meant they were more at the mercy of Glee's schedule.  Dianna and Jayma took guest star which meant they could say yes or no with little to no constraints but it also meant rolling the dice on income.  

 

A couple of exceptions - Naya got a higher guarantee than the other graduates (Harry, Amber, and Mark) but not as high of one as the leads and it seems that Matt willingly took a lower guarantee  to pursue other opportunities.  

Edited May 4, 2015 by camussie

[AndySmith]

What that article says is they get paid for the episodes they appear in

 

That is what I meant to say, I just said it really badly lol

 

but it didn't break any banks

 

Given the state of the industry for the last 5 or 6 years, I don't think any of the networks have that belief. Declining revenues* plus rising costs probably means they count every penny at every show.

 

* In Glee's case, the declining revenue issue was probably expedited by the loss of all the ancillary income (no more touring, declining digital sales from the songs). Combine that with declining ad revenues and the show becoming more expensive each year, it most likely meant if somebody wasn't in an episode, they certainly weren't getting paid for it.

[tom87]

I think after the media mess between seasons 2 and 3 Fox was loathe to get rid of anyone but they also weren't going to guarantee anyone but their leads (Cory, Chris, Lea, and Jane) more than a handful of episodes. So they gave them a choice - low guarantee or guest star.  Obviously most took a low guarantee which meant a set income but it also meant they were more at the mercy of Glee's schedule.  Dianna and Jayma took guest star which meant they could say yes or no with little to no constraints but it also meant rolling the dice on income.  

 

A couple of exceptions - Naya got a higher guarantee than the other graduates (Harry, Amber, and Mark) but not as high of one as the leads and it seems that Matt willingly took a lower guarantee  to pursue other opportunities.  

I know that is what I said.  

[Ceeg]

I'm just now catching up, but FWIW, I remember back during season 4, when Naya et. al. were being credited for episodes they didn't appear in, I had a discussion with a friend of mine who used to be a SAG union rep, and she explicitly expressed to me that every actor gets paid for every episode they appear in. There is no exception, from what I understood. You get credited, you get paid. If you get credited for 22 episodes and only appear in 1, you get paid for 22 episodes. 

I remember this was part of a discussion about how badly Glee was going over budget BTS, and a lot of that had to do with the excess money being paid for actors they weren't using.

There are other tv shows out there, that use those "x episode guarantees" but they don't credit the actors in episodes they don't appear in, because they aren't paying them for non-guaranteed episodes. Off the top of my head, a recent show like Orphan Black has regular cast members like Kevin Hanchard and Evelyne Brochu, who have already missed 1-2 episodes this season. They are not credited in those episodes they miss, and therefore are not getting paid for them. However, their names DO appear in the credits of the episodes they are in.

[camussie]

The above article from Eonline settled this.  There are three types of contracts

 

In TV circles, ensembles are broken down into three categories: leads, series regulars and recurring characters. Leads get the most work and the most money. Series regulars get fewer episodes but enough screen time to ensure they won't take their talents to any other series that season. (They can make guest cameos or host SNL, but that's about it.)

 

Leads on Glee, contract wise, were definitely Matt and Lea and probably Cory and Jane although both of them were put in the supporting category when it came to Emmy eligibility.

 

For the kids series regulars  for each season were

• Season 1 - Amber, Chris, Jenna, Kevin, Dianna, and Mark.  Harry, Naya, Heather, and Dijon were all guest stars.
• Season 2 - All of New Directions who came back
• Season 3 - Season 2 regulars + Darren.  Chord was a guest star (despite his team trying to play hardball to get a contract like Darren)
• Season 4 - Season 3 regulars + Chord but minus Dianna.  The newbies were guest stars all season much like Naya and Harry were guest stars in season 1
• Season 5 - 5 newbies, Chris, Naya, Chord, Darren, Kevin, and Jenna 
• Season 6 - Amber, Kevin, Chris, Chord, Darren

 

That said just because they were regulars doesn't mean they had a  22 episode guarantee and their pay is based on two components - their rate per episode X their guarantee .  

 

Industry insiders say most ensemble actors are paid by episode, not by season. The bad news for folks like Hurley, Sayid and that new bikini girl who got two lines last season: No episode, no pay....

...Before a season even starts shooting, each actor usually gets a "guarantee" of a certain number of episodes. In other words, no surprises in the pay department. Most TV actors know exactly how much they'll be making per season

 

So yes they will get credited for episodes they do not appear in, even if they don't get paid for that episode, because they are under contract with the show for the season.

 

On the other hand recurring characters/guest stars only get credited for the episodes they appear in  See Lauren Potter who was never a series regular so she was only credited when Becky was on screen.

Edited May 6, 2015 by camussie

[tom87]

The above article from Eonline settled this.  There are three types of contracts

 

 

Leads on Glee, contract wise, were definitely Matt and Lea and probably Cory and Jane although both of them were put in the supporting category when it came to Emmy eligibility.

 

For the kids series regulars  for each season were

• Season 1 - Amber, Chris, Jenna, Kevin, Dianna, and Mark.  Harry, Naya, Heather, and Dijon were all guest stars.
• Season 2 - All of New Directions who came back
• Season 3 - Season 2 regulars + Darren.  Chord was a guest star (despite his team trying to play hardball to get a contract like Darren)
• Season 4 - Season 3 regulars + Chord but minus Dianna.  The newbies were guest stars all season much like Naya and Harry were guest stars in season 1
• Season 5 - 5 newbies, Chris, Naya, Chord, Darren, Kevin, and Jenna 
• Season 6 - Amber, Kevin, Chris, Chord, Darren

 

That said just because they were regulars doesn't mean they had a  22 episode guarantee and their pay is based on two components - their rate per episode X their guarantee .  

 

 

So yes they will get credited for episodes they do not appear in, even if they don't get paid for that episode, because they are under contract with the show for the season.

 

On the other hand recurring characters/guest stars only get credited for the episodes they appear in  See Lauren Potter who was never a series regular so she was only credited when Becky was on screen.

I do not think Jane was ever a lead.    Also Harry did not become a regular until season 3.

 

Did anyone notice in Kevin's interview the other day he specifically mentions Cory being one of 2 leads?   Just though that was interesting.

[camussie]

I never knew Harry didn't become regular until season 3.  I thought, like Naya and Heather, he became a regular in season 2.  

 

As for what Kevin said I thought it was because Finn/Rachel were the main couple and also because in seasons 1-3 Cory was a lead by story/screen time. I still think that changed in season 4 with Blaine being McKinley narrative lead.  

 

As far as Jane I think Fox considered her, if not a lead, then an essential element to and the face of the show.  I still think the reason S6 was so Sue heavy is because one of the few demands Fox made of the creative team was that Sue get a decent amount of focus.  I also still think that Fox's insistence that Sue stay a part of the show is one of the reasons, if not the main reason, they agreed to a split narrative and also went along with extending the school year.  Perhaps the people at Fox couldn't see how Sue could be moved to New York.  

Edited May 6, 2015 by camussie

[tom87]

I never knew Harry didn't become regular until season 3.  I thought, like Naya and Heather, he became a regular in season 2.  

 

As for what Kevin said I thought it was because Finn/Rachel were the main couple and also because in seasons 1-3 Cory was a lead by story/screen time. I still think that changed in season 4 with Blaine being McKinley narrative lead.  

 

As far as Jane I think Fox considered her, if not a lead, then an essential element to and the face of the show.  I still think the reason S6 was so Sue heavy is because one of the few demands Fox made of the creative team was that Sue get a decent amount of focus.  I also still think that Fox's insistence that Sue stay a part of the show is one of the reasons, if not the main reason, they agreed to a split narrative and also went along with extending the school year.  Perhaps the people at Fox couldn't see how Sue could be moved to New York.  

I was talking in context of  the contract. I do not think Jane was a lead and may have had just a guarantee amount of episodes.

 

And as far as Kevin imo it was who he believed were leads  and I doubt he thought of Darren as a lead.  I don't even think Darren was Mck narrative lead, they tried to get it to be Ryder for a split second but shifted gears to give Blam more  but I think the show assumed it was still Cory.

Edited May 6, 2015 by tom87

[camussie]

The other actors may have still assumed it was Cory but much like TPTB moved Matt away from being a lead  starting with season 2 (storyline wise) I felt Cory was following that same path.  Those in charge had Finn riding the whiteboard while the "kids"  (mostly Blaine and with him came Blam!) became the focus.  

 

It will forever mystify me that Blam! was the most focused on relationship in season 4.   Much to the detriment of the show someone in charge sure had a jones for that bro-ship.

Edited May 6, 2015 by camussie

[fakeempress]

Ryan Murphy's Professional Highs and Personal Lows: "I Don't Want to Be That Person Anymore"

 

(Re Glee) But the billion-dollar franchise eventually would fall back down to earth, with troubles on camera and off. "I look at the Empire cast and everything that's going on with them, and I'm just like, 'Don't do it. Keep it together.' And I think they have in the way that we never did," says Murphy, who adds, "To this day, I'm devastated by everything that happened with that show."

 

Over the course of six seasons of Glee, which petered out earlier this year, there was plenty written about backstage drama, fractured relationships and the death of star Cory Monteith from a drug overdose. All Murphy will offer are his own misgivings about his role on the show. "I was there with them all day long, and then we'd finish work and we'd go out and have fun all night, and I guess in a weird, twisted way, I was trying to relive the childhood I never had," he says. "I thought they wanted a parent, and they didn't. They didn't want me to tell them what to f—ing do. They didn't want me to tell them how to treat each other or what the world was like at the end of the day. I wish I could go back and do that differently with a lot of those actors. Some of them I'm still very close to: Lea Michele, Chord Overstreet, Darren Criss — but there were some that didn't work out well, and I regret that. I guess I just wish I had been able to let them figure it out for themselves."

 

This is giving me flashbacks to Muphy-splaining the Graduation-gate and Cory's death being responsible for Glee going off the rails. 

 

The musical dramedy for Gwyneth mentioned in the article must be One Hit Wonders, there was a bit about it in the Sony leaks. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by fakeempress

[camussie]

There is just too much messed up about that for me to even begin to know where to comment.  Needless to say it only reinforces my opinion that RM used Glee to try and work through some deep seeded issues he has.  

 

I will say now more than ever I would love to hear a few people's candid take on RM.  I think Matt's would be interesting because I always felt like he managed to stay a bit removed from the drama that RM brings.  Chris' would be too because of the journey he seemed to take - from someone who was a RM favorite to someone who fell out of favor.  I would also love to hear Jane's take on him.  

Edited October 14, 2015 by camussie

[fakeempress]

Apparently he's reworked the movie script with Goop for TV as ... gasp....an anthology series. Goop will (probably) sing. Original music, set in the recording industry -- RM is coming for Empire's crown. 

Ryan Murphy, Gwyneth Paltrow Prep TV Version of 'One Hit Wonders' Musical Dramedy (Exclusive)

[caracas1914]

"and I guess in a weird, twisted way, I was trying to relive the childhood I never had," he says. "I thought they wanted a parent, and they didn't. "

***********

He's such an asshole that he even contradicts his earlier claim of reluctantly being a " Father figure" for Cory Monteith who supposedly craved it.

Heh, admits he's still close to Lea, Chord and Darren. That's fine but IMO it shows that even talent means nothing to him ( Naya, Chris, Matt, Jayma, Kevin , etc) if the actor is not licking Ryan's balls 24/7.

[jaytee1812]

if the actor is not licking Ryan's balls 24/7.

Well that's an image that's gonna fester!

[camussie]

I never bought that he was a father figure to Cory.  I felt like it was something he just said to in the wake of Cory's passing to get good copy.  I can buy that he thought of himself as those "kids" fairy godfather and became resentful when many of them didn't see him that way.  Not that they weren't grateful for the opportunity RIB gave them through Glee, rather that they were adults who didn't need, nor want, RM trying to dictate their lives to them.  

 

I am going to go as far to say  I believe that is what caused a rift between Cory and Ryan starting back before season 2 began.  My feeling is Cory was the first one of the "kids" to chafe against RM's controlling nature but he certainly wasn't the last.  Chris, Dianna, and Naya all obviously did too.  

 

The lucky ones, at least personally, seem to be the ones who didn't rate RM trying to control them as much - Harry, Jenna, Kevin, Heather, and Mark (although he had his own issues with Fox when he released his album).

 

Chord is an interesting case in that he attempted to push back by demanding a contract like Darren's and was told see ya! I always figured he came back hat in hand (as he was a guest star in S3 despite his demands) and now I am convinced that hat in hand also involved him never ever ever questioning RM again,

Edited October 15, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

It seems like he forgot they weren't the high school kids they were playing. Cory, Mark and Harry were more than ten years older than the teenagers they played. The girls were all in their 20s, only Chris was a teenager, and I suspect one that didn't need a 'father figure'.

This is a broad generalisation but actors either seem to love him after they've worked together or never want to work with him again!

[caracas1914]

Darren said in an interview that he never questioned anything the show made his character do, unlike some of the cast who voiced opinions /disagreements with how their characters were written.

I don't think it's a stretch to say Ryan expected the Glee cast " children" to tow the line, unlike say an established name such as Jessica Lange or Gwyneth Paltrow, which in those cases Ryan is licking their balls 24/7.

It's a figurative figure of speech, naturally since I'm not implying those actors are hermaphrodites. : )

Edited October 14, 2015 by caracas1914

[fakeempress]

 

Chord is an interesting case in that he attempted to push back by demanding a contract like Darren's and was told see you. I always figured he came back hat in hand (as he was a guest star in S3 despite his demands) and now I am convinced that hat in hand also involved never ever questioning RM again,

Yeah, I think even back then people thought this was the case, except for some writer-stans.

 

Won't be the least bit surprising if Chord (and not Kevin, Amber, Naya, all strong singers) appears on that Goop TV show, if it gets made. DaLeaStreet represent, and so on.

Edited October 14, 2015 by fakeempress

[jaytee1812]

Won't be the least bit surprising if Chord (and not Kevin, Amber, Naya, etc.) appears on that Goop TV show, if it gets made.

Depends how his relationship with Goopy ended. ;)

He is the only one of the three that RM says he close to that he hasn't cast yet. If it isn't in that it may be the next AHS instalment.

Doesn't sound like there'll be a Scream Queens Season 2 for him to appear in.

[camussie]

I don't think he was ever in a relationship with Goop because book-ending their supposed relationship was Goop sightings with Brad Falchuk and that relationship is still going strong 1 plus years in.  My guess is that he was hanging out with both of them and the paps jumped to conclusions.  

Edited October 14, 2015 by camussie

[fakeempress]

 

This is a broad generalisation but actors either seem to love him after they've worked together or never want to work with him again!

 

It wasn't until AHS and the move to the anthology format that Ryan started reusing some of his cast. Before that, iirc, it was only Jessalyn from Nip/Tuck, and Bryce Johnson from Popular (but just in one Glee episode) who re-appeared on a later show. Of course, there was the rift between him and the main Nip/Tuck cast in the later seasons, and now he's copping to a somewhat similar situation on Glee. Only, the excuse about the well-intentioned but misguided fatherly impulse doesn't translate back to Nip/Tuck because the main actors were more or less established already.

Edited October 14, 2015 by fakeempress

[tom87]

It wasn't until AHS and the move to the anthology format that Ryan started reusing some of his cast. Before that, iirc, it was only Jessalyn from Nip/Tuck, and Bryce Johnson from Popular (but just in one Glee episode) who re-appeared on a later show. Of course, there was the rift between him and the main Nip/Tuck cast in the later seasons, and now he's copping to a somewhat similar situation on Glee. Only, the excuse about the well-intentioned but misguided fatherly impulse doesn't translate back to Nip/Tuck because the main actors were more or less established already.

Mike O'Malley, Jon Groff, Dot Maire Jones, Iqbal Theba all were cast pre glee in other Ryan projects.

[fakeempress]

I was thinking of shows that aired, but fair point. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by fakeempress

[shantown]

I can buy that he thought of himself as those "kids" fairy godfather and got resentful when many of them didn't see him that way. 

Exactly this. It's been alluded to more than once (with I think it being Jane who outright said it) that you could tell who Murphy liked or was mad at based on the scripts. 

[fakeempress]

If anyone like me needs a refresher about Ryan's $24-million deal with FOX, including retroactive profit sharing. 

I think there was a recent interview with Walden & Newman mentioning they will want Ryan to create a regular procedural for them. 

[caracas1914]

I believe that morphed into the  "An American Crime Story" which is being filmed, as  the crime procedural FOX wanted, but it's still yet  another anthology type of series, with the first season dealing with the OJ Trial from the 1990's.  

[fakeempress]

LOL could be. Ryan and procedurals doesn't compute. Can't find the link now, I read this sometime in the last two weeks but it could have been an older piece. 

[tom87]

I think Ryan is just producing not writing American Crime Story.

[Hana Chan]

*sigh*... Of course Ryan. It's not the shitty writing, incoherent storylines, the sidelining of some of the show's best talent, forcing a McKinley storyline long past its expiration date and turning an ensemble show in the Rachel Berry Show (with special guest stars Blaine and Sam). No, it's an ungrateful cast who didn't appreciate all the parental guidance he was selflessly trying to give them.

 

Rather obvious why he cites Lea, Darren and Chord as still being close to him, as they were the chief beneficiaries of his favoritism. Though with the way Scream Queen's ratings have been sinking like a rock, Lea might want to start polishing up her resume.

[caracas1914]

Except for Chris, who was 18 when the pilot was filmed and turned 19 when the front 13 was filmed, the 'younger' Glee cast was in their early to mid twenties when Glee started. While most were experiencing their first big wave of success, most were show biz veterans with prior projects under their belt. They all had agents, managers, etc so Ryan trying to be this great father figure just doesn't cut it.

It certainly seems he reacted badly to the overworked cast refusing to tour after the second concert series, and more than anything it was clear he wanted to replace them with more pliant minions by season 4. It wasn't so much paternal interest as exploitation.

Matt, Jane , Jayma, Mike and Dot I think were different because Ryan never pretended to ever try to control them, even if he mishandled their characters, I think they shrugged it off as " that's show biz".

As usual with Ryan, he revealed more than he intended, namely that his non favorites can't stand him and he has a nonexistent relationship with them now.

Edited October 15, 2015 by caracas1914

[LydiaMoon1]

*sigh*... Of course Ryan. It's not the shitty writing, incoherent storylines, the sidelining of some of the show's best talent, forcing a McKinley storyline long past its expiration date and turning an ensemble show in the Rachel Berry Show (with special guest stars Blaine and Sam). No, it's an ungrateful cast who didn't appreciate all the parental guidance he was selflessly trying to give them.

 

As usual with Ryan, he revealed more than he intended,

Exactly. There’s so much here I hardly know where to begin. Bless his creepy little heart, he just continues to reveal himself to be a petty, unprofessional bully, hiding behind his phony “woe is me” while once again trying to surreptitiously blame the cast for killing the golden goose. So the “kids” didn’t like his blatant favoritism and spitefulness and they weren’t grateful that he used them like paper dolls to play out his adolescent fantasies?  Imagine that.

 

This at least explains to me why I had come to despise the character of Will Schuester so much.  I realize now that he was actually playing Ryan Murphy. RM was Mr. Shue on steroids; even more biased, creepy, inappropriate, and unprofessional than the original. 

[camussie]

As a Cory fan what interests me the most is this whole Chord thing.  After all Sam was the first of the 2.0s which is why I think Cory must have been the first one to chafe and RM decided to show him by bringing in a replacement.  Kind of like the parental threat  - I made you and i can make another one just like you.  Now that was used as a joke in my family but RM actions seem to indicate he really believed that.  

 

Only it became quickly obvious Sam wasn't another Finn and Chord wasn't another Cory, no matter how much Finn was torn down while Sam was built up, especially during the early season 2 Kurt bullying story. The second half of s2 they backed off the Sam/Finn stuff but it was so obvious the first half.  RM must have been really chuffed the replacement also rebelled which is why I think Chord was put in "time out" until he came back mightily chastened.  

 

Then in season 4 RM tried to "make another one just like you" with most of the cast and ended up cluelessly shocked that didn't work either.  The really weird part of that is how long Fox went along with his S4 grand replacement experiment.  I mean they saw it didn't work with Sam/Finn back in season 2.  The only thing I can surmise is that they were blown away by AHS success, had hopes for another money making tour, and wanted to keep Jane/Sue a big part of the narrative and didn't know how they could that if the show moved away from McKinley so they gave RM way too much leeway.  

Edited October 15, 2015 by camussie

[LydiaMoon1]

As a Cory fan what interests me the most is this whole Chord thing.  After all Sam was the first of the 2.0s which is why I think Cory must have been the first one to chafe and RM decided to show him by bringing in a replacement.  Kind of like the parental threat  - I made you and i can make another one just like you.  Now that was used as a joke in my family but RM actions seem to indicate he really believed that. 

I didn’t notice the Sam/Finn mashup attempt in season 2.  Back then, I just accepted Sam as a new (and very cute) character, and I was interested in what new stories he would bring to the table.  It wasn’t until much later that I recognized that Glee was slowly trying to morph Sam into Finn.   In hindsight, I think you’re absolutely right, esp. when I remember that Cory was the one who went to TPTB on behalf of the group to announce that the cast wanted to stop touring (IIRC). I totally believe that he was the first target of RM’s retaliation.

 

Only it became quickly obvious Sam wasn't another Finn and Chord wasn't another Cory

THIS.  Not trying to knock Chord  (because I think he’s a pleasant enough singer and a decent actor), but I wouldn’t call him outstanding at either.  Cory was MUCH stronger at both, so he was able to capably fill the role of leading man. 

[fakeempress]

 

Though with the way Scream Queen's ratings have been sinking like a rock, Lea might want to start polishing up her resume

SQ looked promising in concept, but I bailed after last week's episode. So I'm not surprised the ratings don't match the hype. Ryan has a knack for the camp and pastiche but the result here is so unusually bo-ring. Wasn't expecting that, usually he manages to hold my interest for some time if not for the whole ride. Lea and a couple other actors hit the right tonal balance, the rest are flailing or a snore. I can't be bothered even with the mystery. Wanted to like it for Lea's sake, not happening. As for the ratings, maybe it'll get a Halloween bump.

Edited October 15, 2015 by fakeempress

[jaytee1812]

I couldn't get through one episode of Scream Queens. I think this writing team is too busy trying to be edgy they've gone right to offensive. I mean jokes about someone's actual murder (obviously a women of colour), people's disabilities, and the usual racist, misogynist crap. Although apparently it wasn't as offensive as AHS, there's a review in Vanity Fair that's a work of art about how offensive that is.

[camussie]

After RIB spent a good share of season 6 of Glee mocking their precious few remaining viewers I made a decision to never watch anything any of them are involved in again.  To be fair, even before season 6 began, I was loathe to get started on another RIB show but season 6 closed the door to my viewership forever.  

[caracas1914]

Ryan was just angry at Glee by season 6. Actually it was blatant when he slashed and burned the NY narrative foisted on him in the back end of Season 5.

[tom87]

Wow he sure is able to invoke some intense feelings.  I guess I never was as invested in glee as I thought.   Looking here and other places I just can't phantom some of the intensity over a show.  Its history, the cast have all moved on and all seem happy and working on other things.

[caracas1914]

Looking here and other places I just can't phantom some of the intensity over a show.  I

 

 

I guess condescension is not dead.

 

Didn't know  voicing opinions in a discussion forum  meant that posters didn't realize it's all "history" at this point.

[LydiaMoon1]

After RIB spent a good share of season 6 of Glee mocking their precious few remaining viewers I made a decision to never watch anything any of them are involved in again.  To be fair, even before season 6 began, I was loathe to get started on another RIB show but season 6 closed the door to my viewership forever.

This describes me perfectly.

 

 

Didn't know voicing opinions in a discussion forum meant that posters didn't realize it's all "history" at this point.

 

William Faulkner said it best; "The past is never dead. It's not even past."

[tom87]

I guess condescension is not dead.

 

Didn't know  voicing opinions in a discussion forum  meant that posters didn't realize it's all "history" at this point.

Wasn't may intention since I too was just voicing my opinion.  I just don't get letting him get under their skins is all.

 

I guess I'd rather look at glee as a few good seasons that brought the attention to some performers I might not otherwise have known. 

[fakeempress]

It's still fresh in people's memory and too early for the dust to have settled. Maybe in time, though some older fandoms are still intense, it's in the nature of the beast. 

[caracas1914]

Star Trek fandom and Wesley Crusher/Will Wheaton, it's literally been decades now. ; )

[dizzyizzy01]

I think the nature of fandom is just to over-analyze and over-invest.  I think people here think more about what Ryan says than Ryan himself.  I mean it's what keeps activity on these boards going =).

[caracas1914]

Plus you add that even more successful network show-runners today, such as Shonda Rhimes, Greg Berlanti, Seth Mcfarlane, Chuck Lorre , etc shy away from drawing direct personal spotlight from their shows and focusing on themselves the way Ryan does with his interviews and comments. They have no " meta" compared to him is fair to say.

His being " polarizing" isn't just a coincidence, i.e. He never shuts the fuck up , to the point of even calling fans out with meta writing on his shows.

[ComfySweater]

Ryan does himself no favors with the way he directly interacts with/mocks fans. That avoiding Brittana questions and red wine nonsense is why I'll never watch a new show of his again. I felt his contempt for fans, and it was not pretty. He can go roll around in his money all he wants, but this viewer will never fall for his shit again.

[spiritof76]

Wow. As usual so much to unpack with Ryan. I have to say that am surprised that it was Ryan that was the first one of the group, to really admit that all was not peachy keen and all did not end on a peachy keen note. He just always seemed like the "keeper of the myth" of Glee and the family narrative and how awesome and close everyone was.I firmly  expected some of the cast to eventually let some of the secrets out. I'm shocked it was Ryan.

 

Nothing he said shocked me, because I always thought he was unnaturally, overly involved with that cast, especially at the start. And originally a lot of them probably did like it and enjoy it. Everything was a whirlwind. With filming Season 1, the mall tour before the premiere, all the media promoting and drumming up interest in a new show, award shows (and wins) then right into an actual singing tour at the end of Season 1. They go right from that into Season 2, even more media because of their new hit status, more award shows (and wins), taping a full 22 episode season (not to mention recording songs), a big episode filmed in NY that apparently sent the end of Season 2 over schedule, and then right into an international, 6 weeks ours even bigger than the first, promoting a concert "film" and then right into Season 3. Taping another full 22 episode season. Basically this cast didn't get a break from Ryan or each other until after Season 3. All of that "togetherness" and basically exhaustion was probably beneficial to Ryan. No one had time to really question a lot, they were too busy and too tired. Once some of them finally got to peak their heads out of the Glee bubble they started getting their own ideas and not falling in line. What Ryan saw as ungrateful was really just, regular normal, growth.

[fakeempress]

If anyone like me needs a refresher about Ryan's $24-million deal with FOX, including retroactive profit sharing. 

I think there was a recent interview with Walden & Newman mentioning they will want Ryan to create a regular procedural for them. 

Quoting myself to say I came across this again, Walden said it 10 days ago. Sounds to me like a brand new show, not American Crime Story which they know.

 

"We asked Ryan Murphy to come up with a procedural this year,” Walden revealed. Though Murphy is best known for creations like Glee and American Horror Story, he’s written one procedural before: Nip/Tuck, which Walden confesses she loved.

“It’s interesting to come to a creator who’s done mostly comedy, and put them in a genre where they’re not 100% comfortable, but they want to be in that space. We’ll see what he comes up with.”

Edited October 18, 2015 by fakeempress

[Hana Chan]

Wow. As usual so much to unpack with Ryan. I have to say that am surprised that it was Ryan that was the first one of the group, to really admit that all was not peachy keen and all did not end on a peachy keen note. He just always seemed like the "keeper of the myth" of Glee and the family narrative and how awesome and close everyone was.I firmly  expected some of the cast to eventually let some of the secrets out. I'm shocked it was Ryan.

 

I don't consider it totally surprising. The first one to get the story out gets a chance to control it and with Glee ending in such an inglorious manner, AHS getting the level of criticism that it is and Scream Queens floundering (on top of The New Normal failing), he's no longer the Golden Boy producer. So if everyone is starting to be talking about how things have gone amiss, it makes sense that the man behind the shows will to try to spin things in a way that either absolves him from blame, or if he is at least partly to blame, at least paints him in a sympathetic light.

 

This isn't new. We saw it during Graduation gate, when the media was buzzing over what was going to happen to Lea, Chris and Cory and how spinoff fell through. There was a very active effort to squash the media talk that Glee couldn't survive without its big three (let alone all the other actors being cut loose after their characters graduated) and when the spinoff was nixed (to a large degree because of the network concerns about Glee not being viable without its best talents), there was a clear (and clumsy) attempt to lay the blame at the feet of the actors (primarily Chris, it seemed).

 

Then when the McKinley storyline was obviously stagnating (with its recycled characters, recycled storylines and lack of strong leads), we got more spinning that deflected blame from the showrunners. When ratings plummeted in season five and it was clear to everyone and their grandmother that Glee had totally lost its way, the spin was that Cory's death was at the heart of Glee's failures.

 

Now that the dust has started to settle, we can look at Glee's collapse from a clearer perspective, and also see how it relates to the problems with AHS and SQ. The media has been openly talking about the weakness in all three shows, the fact that he recycles character types and the racist, homophobic and misogynistic jokes that have reached really offensive levels and are seeing this through the prism of what happened with Glee. So we get Ryan Murphy's self-promoting interview that makes his obvious role in what caused Glee to fall apart, he again shifts the blame. That maybe his took too much of an interest in his actors, but it was really on them for not appreciating it. Not that he was actively punishing actors who stepped out of line (from Murphy's perspective)  by trashing their storylines or that he showed very clear favoritism towards Lea, Darren and Chord (and the resentments that was bound to foster) or that the storylines were a mess. The problem is that I don't think anyone is buying his story and the media now is starting to see his failures for what they really are and putting the blame where the really lies.

 

And if any of the Glee actors ever decide to start talking, watch the fur fly. It's going to be epic.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Hana Chan

[jaytee1812]

I always thought Ryan blamed the newbies for season 4/5 not being as successful, helped by some bitter cast members. But that narrative is a bit hard to play when the lead actress 'the new Rachel' has done better than the original Rachel post Glee.