S11.E08: Awake

[missmycat]

I was recently reminded from having read it in a comment that Reid is suppose to be an Aspie.Now I know the show has never officially declared that he was one.But they've never outright denied it either. If anything there have been times when it has been strongly implied that he was one. And yes I understand that there is a bit of a debate among the fandom whether Reid is or isn't an Aspie.Nevertheless many in the fandom believe him to be one.Which to me makes the mocking of Reid by Morgan and Rossi all that more despicable.

[normasm]

I like that they didn't say one way or the other (Aspergers or not), so that we can believe what we want. But, yeah, I think the Reid I "know" would have felt sad and been embarrassed if he had seen and heard that whole thing. It takes some of us many decades to outgrow that thin-skinned reaction to others making fun of us. When i was his age even, I couldn't stand for anyone to make fun of me or mock me, and the few times I caught people mocking me in round robin, I was furious. Thin skin is a pain of fair youth. Now I couldn't care less what people think of me, except my niece and nephews.

[JMO]

If they'd joked about how he drinks his coffee, or his love of all things Halloween, or something else that was a personal choice of his, it would have been different.  

 

But they chose to joke about something that was so inherently 'him' (whether or not anyone believes it consistent with Asperger's), something he couldn't change, even if he wanted to.  That denigrated his very identity, and was just cruel.

 

I posted this elsewhere, but I really think JM looked uncomfortable in that scene, even behind his smile.  I think he knew it was wrong. 

 

And now, I have to stop thinking about it, because.....blood pressure.

[smoker]

If they'd joked about how he drinks his coffee, or his love of all things Halloween, or something else that was a personal choice of his, it would have been different.  

 

But they chose to joke about something that was so inherently 'him' (whether or not anyone believes it consistent with Asperger's), something he couldn't change, even if he wanted to.  That denigrated his very identity, and was just cruel.

 

I posted this elsewhere, but I really think JM looked uncomfortable in that scene, even behind his smile.  I think he knew it was wrong. 

 

And now, I have to stop thinking about it, because.....blood pressure.

 

I would have to watch again because I wasn't paying attention in the end, but I get what you mean.

there is a break point where no matter how much money you are getting, some scenes are a shame. Actually, they are great actors if they manage to throw up that crap with a straight face in a round table (I think they don't do that anymore). Sometimes, I blush while I'm watching... just when you think they can't deliver anything worse...bullying

Edited November 20, 2015 by smoker

[ReidFan]

It doesn't speak much to me about the BAU team being a family if they sit around and deliberately mock and belittle the youngest and most sensitive one of them like that. And the writers thought it was funny. I was just disgusted and offended, really. They portray him as the sensitive and empathetic one. Yet his alleged best friend mocks him like this, just makes me sad. ::reaches for blood pressure medication::

[SSAHotchner]

I also didn't understand why they kept saying "expand the search to include such-and-such," when they were adding criteria that would actually narrow the search.  Why wouldn't the broad search have found the information?  If anything, the broad search should have found too much information, rather than nothing!  

Poor, lazy writing. I often wonder why nobody notices the things that don't make sense at the table reads? Maybe they're all just goofing off and having fun. It's clear that nobody (with a brain) proof reads the scripts for error, continuity, etc. 

[missmycat]

Poor, lazy writing. I often wonder why nobody notices the things that don't make sense at the table reads? Maybe they're all just goofing off and having fun. It's clear that nobody (with a brain) proof reads the scripts for error, continuity, etc. 

Plus it's like they get a one track mind. For this episode it was girl power which meant the 2 Mary Sues had to be front and center. This of course also meant that they had to be the ones to do the take down,with no back up whatsoever from any of the men on the team even though one of them was a bleeping rookie and the other one was suffering from sleep deprivation. And so what if this put Hotch in a bad light because people are asking why the fuck would he have even allowed this.After all this was all about girl power.  So Hotch and the other so called useless males weren't really needed in the grand scheme of things.Well that is at least not until the end when the 2 useless males known as Morgan and Rossi were needed so they could make fun of and mock Reid,yet another useless male,who didn't happen to be present at the time.

[Danielg342]

Didn't occur to me until you pointed it out missmycat. That is another example of this episode's sexism. The other one was the choice of victims- of course the show could never have women in there having blood gushing out of their ears because their ear drums were blown, and women can't be shown being beaten or electrocuted- “they're too weak for that”, haven't you heard?

I get stuff like that is unsettling...but if shows like CM pretend like violence against women doesn't exist, how can we pretend to have the discussion needed to tackle the problem?

[missmycat]

Didn't occur to me until you pointed it out missmycat. That is another example of this episode's sexism. The other one was the choice of victims- of course the show could never have women in there having blood gushing out of their ears because their ear drums were blown, and women can't be shown being beaten or electrocuted- “they're too weak for that”, haven't you heard?

I get stuff like that is unsettling...but if shows like CM pretend like violence against women doesn't exist, how can we pretend to have the discussion needed to tackle the problem?

The problem is Daniel that some people are of the mindset that sexism can only occur against females.To me that is the sort of mindset that is quite prevalent among both the CM people and the CBS people. They seem to feel it is alright to portray the male characters in ways that they'd never dream of with the females for fear of being accused of sexism. The only difference is that in the case of CBS they only seem to have this sort of mindset when it comes to Criminal Minds.

[zannej]

The problem is Daniel that some people are of the mindset that sexism can only occur against females.To me that is the sort of mindset that is quite prevalent among both the CM people and the CBS people. They seem to feel it is alright to portray the male characters in ways that they'd never dream of with the females for fear of being accused of sexism. The only difference is that in the case of CBS they only seem to have this sort of mindset when it comes to Criminal Minds.

Exactly, if things had been reversed and it was different genders, people might have complained. Granted, law enforcement agencies are more likely to send male officers to respond to a male perpetrator because generally the males have more weight to use to tackle or take someone down. That is not always the case, but they do it when it makes sense-- not because they don't respect women, but because they want the best chance of a takedown without someone being killed or hurt. There are some women who are tougher and stronger than many men, but even they can be taken down by someone stronger or more skilled-- just look at Ronda Rousey.

 

My issue with the ending plane scene is not just the scene itself, but that it follows the trend of Nerd-shaming. Remember the "not-so-awesome" party last week where the girl was upset because the party was full of nerdy guys? If she'd given it a chance, the party could've been fun. And the problem is, they don't do it to other main characters when those characters fact-spout. Garcia gets to run her mouth and very rarely gets told to be quiet and rarely gets an eyeroll. They NEVER mock her or make fun of her, because that would be disrespectful. But they constantly mock and disrespect Reid.

[zannej]

I need a favor and I can't download the episode to watch again due to my bandwidth restrictions. I need the info before noon central time today.

Would anyone be able to watch specific scenes and give me some info?

Like, how many times did they ask Garcia to check stuff on the computer-- did I remember correctly that they told her to plug in the profile to the computer and find something? (I remember thinking that they needed to be much more specific). Did they present the formal profile to the police saying the guy was some sort of sexual sadist? But then later it turned out he wasn't?

In the ending shootout-- who fired and from what angle? Were they behind the truck? Was the guy going forward?

At what point in the episode did Hotch disappear?

[ReidFan]

oh wow :-( Normally I'd be all over helping you out with this but I hated this episode so much I've already deleted it from the DVR. ANY other episode, EVERY other episode, I either have on DVD, on the harddrive or on the PVR but not this P.O.S.

 

 

[SSAHotchner]

Sorry, Zannej. Didn't see your post, or this forum, until just now. I hope you got what you needed. I trust your judgement and your opinions and knowledge of CM. I'm sure you did a great job. 

[Danielg342]

The problem is Daniel that some people are of the mindset that sexism can only occur against females. To me that is the sort of mindset that is quite prevalent among both the CM people and the CBS people. They seem to feel it is alright to portray the male characters in ways that they'd never dream of with the females for fear of being accused of sexism. The only difference is that in the case of CBS they only seem to have this sort of mindset when it comes to Criminal Minds.

That's what bugs me too- sexism can occur against males, but very rarely does this get admitted (I tried to argue this point in the “Gender on Television” thread but wound up with too many people making assumptions, using buzzwords and not really reading what I wrote, so I gave up). I think CM's issue is that, after they fired AJ Cook and Paget Brewster, the show did take some heat for its poor treatment of women, of which I'd say quite a bit of it was deserved (mostly for the firings, though). So I can understand why they'd think hiring a “blogger”-type feminist (of which Erica Messer clearly is) would fix things, only that it's wound up blowing up in their faces.

For this episode, it felt like that because the victims were male it justified “going overboard” with the torture porn. I get that the UnSub wanted to do “an interrogation” and that he was after a “man with the skull tattoo”, but he was also very random with the torture methods he was using and rarely ever used torture because a question wasn't answered. It was like “I'm just going to hurt you for the heck of it” and thus it rang hollow.

Not just that, though- from a storytelling perspective, was there any reason to show the torture? The profile should have been enough, and maybe just a single scene where the victims are shown being forced to stay awake, but that's it really. After that, the point's been made.

I also believe the torture wasn't at all grotesque. We've certainly seen worse on this show- “Proof” comes to mind, as does “Limelight” and even “X”- and I don't think it should have all been unsettling to see a woman's ears bleed because her eardrums were cracked (that being arguably the worst torture done in the episode). So, even in terms of this show, there just isn't any excuse to why it can only be men whose torture can be shown.

In the ending shootout-- who fired and from what angle? Were they behind the truck? Was the guy going forward?

As I understand, the truck was going to run over the escaped victim (whose ears were just blown out, which should have disoriented him) but it was stopped by JJ, who shouted at the UnSub and got him to focus on her. Tara was standing behind the truck and killed the UnSub from behind, but the reason why escapes me- I can't remember if he started the engine again or not.

Now, putting aside the ridiculousness of ninja JJ, I could believe that Hotch would trust her with a takedown, since JJ has established- within the characters' minds- that she is capable of pulling it off. I could also buy that Hotch would think Tara is in capable hands with JJ taking the lead, which is what JJ did.

Only real issue I have is that I don't know how Tara gets a headshot firing from behind the large tow truck apparatus and the back window- that's an almost impossible angle. I also think Tara put herself at risk because she's standing behind something that could crush her like a bug- with someone driving that something that wouldn't need an invitation to do so.

So while I wasn't annoyed with JJ and Tara doing a takedown in principle, how it played out was not well thought out.

[ForeverAlone]

Normal JJ is capable of pulling off a takedown, but a sleep deprived JJ who is falling asleep on the job? Yeah, I would not trust her in that situation, and neither should have Hotch. I honestly can't remember, but what were Hotch, Morgan and Rossi doing when all this went down? 

[Danielg342]

Normal JJ is capable of pulling off a takedown, but a sleep deprived JJ who is falling asleep on the job? Yeah, I would not trust her in that situation, and neither should have Hotch.

 

That is true...in fact, you'd think Hotch would know all about how difficult it can be to raise a baby and sent JJ back to the hotel to sleep when it became apparent to him when she's showing the signs of tiredness. I'm pretty sure he would have loved to have done that when Jack was keeping him awake.

[zannej]

IIRC, as soon as the police arrived on the scene, they grabbed the victim and moved him away. I remember looking in front of the truck and seeing that nobody was in front of it-- there was just a gate. So he wasn't going to run the victim over, since the victim had already been removed.

 

Someone found me a transcript of the dialog so I was able to remember more of the scenes and meet my deadline. Excellent point about the random torture, Daniel. I felt it was disorganized and not military style like Morgan suggested.  Reading the transcript made me realize just what a crock of shit the profiling was as well. There was absolutely no basis for their speculation, they just threw out random ideas that really didn't fit.

 

My issue with JJ and Tara being sent out was more that Tara was inexperienced in the field and JJ was exhausted. Hotch used to be observant and he would have noticed that JJ was zonked. There is no way in hell that he would have sent her out into the field in that condition. Hell, he probably would not have had her even go to the hotel with Rossi-- he would have sent someone else and told her to catch a nap so she could be more useful. But not only was JJ sent out while practically dead on her feet, but she was sent with someone she just met. She doesn't know Tara's style or abilities. She doesn't know for sure if Tara will have her back. She and Tara may have started building a rapport, but they don't have the familiarity and experience to play off of each other and communicate to one another the way Hotch and Reid did in LDSK. Had two agents who were on the same page been sent out, maybe they could have actually talked the guy down. Instead JJ seemed to antagonize him and things escalated.

[MCatry]

Normal JJ is capable of pulling off a takedown, but a sleep deprived JJ who is falling asleep on the job? I honestly can't remember, but what were Hotch, Morgan and Rossi doing when all this went down?

My issue with JJ and Tara being sent out was more that Tara was inexperienced in the field and JJ was exhausted. Hotch used to be observant and he would have noticed that JJ was zonked. There is no way in hell that he would have sent her out into the field in that condition. Hell, he probably would not have had her even go to the hotel with Rossi-- he would have sent someone else and told her to catch a nap so she could be more useful. But not only was JJ sent out while practically dead on her feet, but she was sent with someone she just met. She doesn't know Tara's style or abilities...

... Had two agents who were on the same page been sent out, maybe they could have actually talked the guy down. Instead JJ seemed to antagonize him and things escalated.

Lets not forget this is Super-Mom-ninja-JJ we are talking about.

In Messer's universe, all-mighty-JJ can pull off everything, because she is, you know, a mom... and now a mom of two. No one else in the show is, so she gets to be the super hero, and that comes with special powers, such as overcoming drowsiness, having the best shot in the entire team which include former swat and police officers, and of course, reading minds.

And I wish that would have been sarcasm, but unfortunately, these are the plain facts.

Edited November 22, 2015 by MCatry

[needschocolate]

The good -

Tara's wig looks more like human hair and not synthetic doll hair that has been through the washer. The victim actually fought back and almost got away on his own (which rarely happens) - it would have been better if he actually strangled the unsub a little longer and killed him, but that would never happen

 

The bad -

The writers can't write intelligence, so they write comedy instead, except their comedy is not funny. The final theory/profile on the unsub was that he was doing these horrible things to the victims because he wanted them to stay awake - if he can't sleep he doesn't want them to sleep.  I will apply the same logic to my profile of the writers - if they can't be smart, then they don't want anyone else to be smart, so they make Reid be an idiot who can't handle texting, and have the others make fun of him to downplay the importance of his knowledge.

 

Good point. The victims were once again just fodder. We only had more insight into the guy who had a wife but that was very brief-- and it still was unclear how much of the profile was right and how much was wrong. That "profile" was just not right. It was like they threw things at the wall to see what stuck and there was no actual sense to it. It was like they just took different speculations from previous episodes and regurgitated it-- but it wasn't a cohesive profile. It was all over the place.

 

 

I still don't get how they made the leap that the unsub must have lost a child.  

 

It bugs me that every time there is torture, the first thing they say is that the unsub does it for some sort of sexual gratification.  This may or may not have basis in real life, but it seems that more often than not, the torture on the show ends up being done for some other reason - attempt to get information, retaliation, punish perceived wrong-doers, etc... 

 

Maybe I need to update my profile of the writers (above) to include "they get off on torturing viewers."

 

Note to MESSer: JJ had a baby; she did not re-invent the wheel. Most parents of newborns experience sleep deprivation. This is hardly an earth-shattering observation.

 

And yet Morgan had no idea that this was possible.  He thought breastfeeding mom JJ had been drinking wine and partying too hard the night before. Huh?

 

As I understand, the truck was going to run over the escaped victim (whose ears were just blown out, which should have disoriented him) but it was stopped by JJ, who shouted at the UnSub and got him to focus on her. Tara was standing behind the truck and killed the UnSub from behind, but the reason why escapes me- I can't remember if he started the engine again or not.

Only real issue I have is that I don't know how Tara gets a headshot firing from behind the large tow truck apparatus and the back window- that's an almost impossible angle. I also think Tara put herself at risk because she's standing behind something that could crush her like a bug- with someone driving that something that wouldn't need an invitation to do so.

 

I have a plausible theory.  

 

First the facts -

(1) Tara was was behind the truck

(2) JJ was to the side (mostly, I think)

(3) Neither Tara nor JJ was in immediate danger (unless he threw the truck into reverse) and they shouldn't be shooting to kill,

(4) the unsub is shot to death,

(5) there are two nice bullet holes in the front windshield,

(6) Hotch, Morgan and Rossi are no where to be seen.  

 

My theory - The unsub was shot by Hotch. Morgan or Rossi, who were standing in the dark (so we weren't able to see them) and were in danger of being run over.  

[secnarf]

I have a plausible theory.  

 

First the facts -

(1) Tara was was behind the truck

(2) JJ was to the side (mostly, I think)

(3) Neither Tara nor JJ was in immediate danger (unless he threw the truck into reverse) and they shouldn't be shooting to kill,

(4) the unsub is shot to death,

(5) there are two nice bullet holes in the front windshield,

(6) Hotch, Morgan and Rossi are no where to be seen.  

 

My theory - The unsub was shot by Hotch. Morgan or Rossi, who were standing in the dark (so we weren't able to see them) and were in danger of being run over.  

I thought the unsub was shot when he was moving backwards towards Tara? If the others were in front of the car (i.e. shooting through the front windshield) how would they have been in danger of being run over? I could buy that maybe they were in front of the car and shot when Tara was in danger of being run over, but wasn't there a chain-link fence of some type in front of the car?

Also, if you shoot a driver dead while his car is in motion, the car won't stop as if the driver slams on the breaks...it's going to keep moving.

 

That whole scene made no sense to me.

Edited November 22, 2015 by secnarf

[zannej]

I thought the unsub was shot when he was moving backwards towards Tara? If the others were in front of the car (i.e. shooting through the front windshield) how would they have been in danger of being run over? I could buy that maybe they were in front of the car and shot when Tara was in danger of being run over, but wasn't there a chain-link fence of some type in front of the car?

Also, if you shoot a driver dead while his car is in motion, the car won't stop as if the driver slams on the breaks...it's going to keep moving.

 

That whole scene made no sense to me.

I would have to watch it again, but from what I recall, the victim had been in front of the truck (between the truck and the chainlink gate). The cops showed up and whisked him away. JJ was off to the side of the truck (I think passenger side) and Tara was behind the truck. The unsub started moving forward (probably to ram the gate and flee). I don't know if JJ opened fire, but I know Tara did-- fired through the back window. Then they showed that there were bulletholes in the front windshield and no blood spatter. If he'd taken a headshot, there would have been blood spatter all over. It was just poorly filmed.

[smoker]

Normal JJ is capable of pulling off a takedown, but a sleep deprived JJ who is falling asleep on the job? Yeah, I would not trust her in that situation, and neither should have Hotch. I honestly can't remember, but what were Hotch, Morgan and Rossi doing when all this went down? 

they were taking the rest of the week off

[SSAHotchner]

I would have to watch it again, but from what I recall, the victim had been in front of the truck (between the truck and the chainlink gate). The cops showed up and whisked him away. JJ was off to the side of the truck (I think passenger side) and Tara was behind the truck. The unsub started moving forward (probably to ram the gate and flee). I don't know if JJ opened fire, but I know Tara did-- fired through the back window. Then they showed that there were bulletholes in the front windshield and no blood spatter. If he'd taken a headshot, there would have been blood spatter all over. It was just poorly filmed.

See here's the thing about the current episodes. You're just supposed to watch them and think they're awesome. You're not supposed to think about what happens, especially not wonder if it could really happen or if it makes sense. Obviously our comments make no dent in the thought process for how they're doing things now. Perhaps not watching is the best form of communicating to them that we just don't care for the writing and the way our characters we have lovingly followed for over 10 years are now being portrayed and handled. Perhaps it would be better to invest some time into getting the word out that our favorites like Hotch and Reid would be phenomenal in some other show or feature film. Not worried about Rossi. He's got projects up the wazoo. The rest I don't really care what happens to them. 

[paigow]

In the ending shootout-- who fired and from what angle?

The first shot came from the Book Depository at a high rear angle, The second shot came from the grassy knoll at a flat frontal angle, forcing the head back and to the left....

[missmycat]

See here's the thing about the current episodes. The writers are just suppose to write them and think they're awesome. They're not supposed to think about what happens, especially not wonder if it could really happen or if it makes sense. Obviously our comments make no dent in the thought process for how they're doing things now. Perhaps not watching is the best form of communicating to them that we just don't care for the writing and the way our characters we have lovingly followed for over 10 years are now being portrayed and handled. Perhaps it would be better to invest some time into getting the word out that our favorites like Hotch and Reid would be phenomenal in some other show or feature film. Not worried about Rossi. He's got projects up the wazoo. The rest I don't really care what happens to them. 

My sincerest apologize SSA Hotchner but I hope you don't mind that I took the liberty of making a few changes in your post.

[Bookish Jen]

The first shot came from the Book Depository at a high rear angle, The second shot came from the grassy knoll at a flat frontal angle, forcing the head back and to the left....

And don't forget, they also saw Elvis hanging out with an alien at the 7/11.

[Lebanna]

Since they made such a big deal of it this episode, can someone who has actually breast-fed tell me why JJ can't have caffeine while she's away from her baby? I mean, would she really be storing up her pumped milk in the jet's mini-fridge or FedExing it back to Will in D.C. or something? Is caffeine supposed to stick around for days and contaminate your supply?

Also, how would she know how long she was going to be away for? They could get sent across the country on a case for a week or more - could you save up enough milk beforehand to keep the kid going that long - like freeze it or something?

Enquiring minds want to know.

The Reid teasing didn't bother me, but the fact that their information was so obvious and their impressions were really terrible was kind of disappointing. Come on guys, you're actors. At least get the intonation right.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Lebanna

[Bookish Jen]

If Spencer got a hang nail or accidentally spilled his coffee, he'd probably be expected to sit a case out instead of being out in the field.
But JJ has a serious case of sleep deprivation, which as a sufferer of insomnia, I know can really mess you up. But instead of told to take it easy and get some sleep, she is the perfect profiler and a super ninja just because she's a mom!!!!!

 

JJ is a mom; did you know that?
 

[Danielg342]

JJ is a mom; did you know that?

No! I didn't! I need to see it a few more times before I can know for sure!

[ReidFan]

She's not just a Mom! She's Supermom! She can do it all! What do they even need Hotch, Morgan, Rossi, Reid, Garcia or Lewis for?!

[MCatry]

Since they made such a big deal of it this episode, can someone who has actually breast-fed tell me why JJ can't have caffeine while she's away from her baby? I mean, would she really be storing up her pumped milk in the jet's mini-fridge or FedExing it back to Will in D.C. or something? Is caffeine supposed to stick around for days and contaminate your supply?

Also, how would she know how long she was going to be away for? They could get sent across the country on a case for a week or more - could you save up enough milk beforehand to keep the kid going that long - like freeze it or something?

Enquiring minds want to know.

There have been studies suggesting that some babies would keep waking up in the middle of th eight if breast feeding moms would take caffeine.

And there have been studies suggesting that caffeine doesn't affect babies at all.

In any case, JJ is not around her baby, since she has to travel and spend days in different locations, several days in a month, so she is not around the baby when he wakes up. William, the dad, is. She can sleep at the hotel all night long, so her complain falls short to me.

Also, if she is already traveling around the USA, chances are the baby already got used to replace her with the bottle.

And yes, you can save some milk for later, but not for a week. There are some people that even freeze it, but I cannot imaging myself doing that.

Edited November 23, 2015 by MCatry

[zannej]

I read that only a sliver of the caffeine consumed by the mother ends up in the breastmilk-- it was either 1% or 10%-- I can't recall... But doctors recommended that lactating mothers only drink 300mg (1 cup of coffee) per day. JJ could buy formula or use a breast pump. Maybe she breastfeeds while at home and bottles some of it for later.

[Bookish Jen]

No! I didn't! I need to see it a few more times before I can know for sure!

JJ IS A MOM!

 

Hmm, maybe the Hollywood sign should be changed to "JJ is a Mom!" The Statue of Liberty should be replaced with a statue of JJ holding both her kids. And the "Bronze Fonz" here in Milwaukee can be replaced with JJ's bronzed uterus.

[ReidFan]

granted, it's been twenty years since I nursed a baby but:

1. Yes, I avoided caffeine. Also any kind of medications, chocolate, garlic, onion, greasy foods, tomatoes and other things that either transferred flavours a baby didn't like or  ingredients they shouldn't have. Back  then, the studies were definitely 'no caffeine!!'

2. If she's nursing, she's not going to be traveling too far away from the dependent baby. (at the risk of TMI for any male reading) Those boobs will explode if they're left un-nursed for long periods of time. She'd have to either express to relieve herself or be around the baby who needs nursing every couple of hours. If I was away from my nursing baby (this is when they're still fully nursing, before the onset of bottles, supplemental feeding or introduction of solid foods) for more than 4 hours, I would literally start leaking. I expressed to save the milk (and yes, I did freeze it, by the time I quit actually nursing, there was about a month's supply of breastmilk in the freezer for my baby), and it was also so that the baby would continue to have breastmilk, and be able to take it from daddy via bottle, so I could sleep! 

3. I didn't mean to mention 2. so that the writers wouldn't feel it necessary to show JJ with the breast pump and/or expressing herself in her hotel room.

[SSAHotchner]

Since they made such a big deal of it this episode, can someone who has actually breast-fed tell me why JJ can't have caffeine while she's away from her baby? I mean, would she really be storing up her pumped milk in the jet's mini-fridge or FedExing it back to Will in D.C. or something? Is caffeine supposed to stick around for days and contaminate your supply?

Also, how would she know how long she was going to be away for? They could get sent across the country on a case for a week or more - could you save up enough milk beforehand to keep the kid going that long - like freeze it or something?

Enquiring minds want to know.

The Reid teasing didn't bother me, but the fact that their information was so obvious and their impressions were really terrible was kind of disappointing. Come on guys, you're actors. At least get the intonation right.

Anything a nursing mom ingests could get to the baby through breast milk, so you have to be careful. However, the former wife of one of my cousins said to me, "I can't have coffee or chocolate. I'm nursing!" This was a woman I never saw at a family event without a glass of wine in one hand and a cigarette in the other. However, I think worrying about one's caffeine intake affecting the baby might be more in terms of not wanting to keep the baby awake than worrying about the effect on the baby's health for some moms.  You can express your milk, but I'm no expert on that since I didn't get much. Some moms have tons. But don't forget, we're in Criminal Minds Land where nothing has to make sense or even necessarily be true. 

She's not just a Mom! She's Supermom! She can do it all! What do they even need Hotch, Morgan, Rossi, Reid, Garcia or Lewis for?!

They need them all to keep telling us how awesome JJ is. 

JJ IS A MOM!

 

Hmm, maybe the Hollywood sign should be changed to "JJ is a Mom!" The Statue of Liberty should be replaced with a statue of JJ holding both her kids. And the "Bronze Fonz" here in Milwaukee can be replaced with JJ's bronzed uterus.

Hahaha! 

Edited November 23, 2015 by SSAHotchner

[secnarf]

If JJ has finished maternity leave, I can buy that she's got enough milk stored at home, or is supplementing with formula, while she is away from the baby. Also, presumably using a pump or hand-expressing while she's away. I'd wonder about the logistics of storing her milk while she is away though - how many hotel rooms have adequate freezers in them? Perhaps it could be refrigerated for a shorter length of time, but then, what about on the plane?

But if she is wasting the milk that she produces while away, there's no reason she can't have a cup of coffee, so my guess is that she's saving it somehow.

 

Interesting about the caffeine though. I know caffeine is commonly given to premature babies (IV or orally) to help prevent apnea spells, and there's no evidence of long-term adverse effects. Caffeine lasts much longer in babies than in adults though, so it probably is avoided mostly to ensure that the baby sleeps regularly.

Edited November 23, 2015 by secnarf

[ForeverAlone]

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that our discussion of JJ's breast feeding habits is more in depth and detailed than the thought the writers put into it. I can't see them working all of this out in their head. They just threw some words out there. 

[iscoffy]

Yes, I'm fairly sure the writers just thought, "JJ is a SUPER MOM, and so therefore she would only do SUPER MOM stuff, like somehow heroically be able to do her job while not drinking coffee, because we looked up what you shouldn't eat/drink during breastfeeding on Wikipedia and caffeine was listed! Now let's move on to more SUPER scenes."

[Droogie]

I just cannot accept the accepting that a sleep-deprived new mother should take down a hardened criminal. This implies that Hotch is frigging stupid. Hotch is not stupid. Hotch in canon misses nothing with his team. I cannot accept or comprehend a Hotch that does not notice JJ's fatigue. I think we have established that the writing disses Reid. It also disses Hotch. I think it implies that Hotch is tired and doesn't notice what's up. In my CM world, Hotch misses nothing.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Droogie

[SSAHotchner]

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that our discussion of JJ's breast feeding habits is more in depth and detailed than the thought the writers put into it. I can't see them working all of this out in their head. They just threw some words out there. 

I think you're right. I'm sure it's the first time they've ever done that!

I just cannot accept the accepting that a sleep-deprived new mother should take down a hardened criminal. This implies that Hotch is frigging stupid. Hotch is not stupid. Hotch in canon misses nothing with his team. I cannot accept or comprehend a Hotch that does not notice JJ's fatigue. I think we have established that the writing disses Reid. It also disses Hotch. I think it implies that Hotch is tired and doesn't notice what's up. In my CM world, Hotch misses nothing.

Mine, too! Thanks for defending our man. 

[zannej]

Review on CMRT: http://criminalmindsroundtable.blogspot.com/2015/11/criminal-minds-season-11-1108-awake_23.html

[iscoffy]

Hotch has apparently let things play out that might damage someone's career without taking official action (Reid's addiction, for example) in the past, but he certainly was not oblivious to what was happening.  Of course, the writers barely bothered to have Hotch in this episode, so who knows what he noticed or didn't notice.  And not that, "J.J., go home and get some rest" would be a career-killer, but you know, super mom.

[MCatry]

 

Normally the problem is HOW people say things, and not What's being said.

If you ask politely, you won't be banned, and you may get rather interesting answers that will hopefully expand your view on the show and its features as an entertaining source.

I complain a lot, and I criticise a number of aspects in the show, but I am still watching the show. Granted, its been over two years I haven't stayed up on Wednesday's nights to watch it live, and since over half a years don't even watch it right on the next day.

So, to answer your original question:

I keep watching because its a strong habit. I've been watching this show since 2005, so it's not easy to just drop it from my tv list.

I keep watching because I absolutely loved the earlier seasons: the concept, the characters (all of them), the quality of the stories, the strong dialogues, the funny moments, ... Everything. I didn't even mind minor plot holes that were present back in the old days too.

I keep watching because I miss my former CM show, and I still have a little hope that its characters will one day come back.

Right now I am dissappointed. With the show, the writers, and even the cast.

Hope is the last thing you can lose, they say.

Maybe that's why I am still around. Plain hope

Edited November 27, 2015 by thewhiteowl
quoted deleted post

[Guesswht]

I just cannot accept the accepting that a sleep-deprived new mother should take down a hardened criminal. This implies that Hotch is frigging stupid. Hotch is not stupid. Hotch in canon misses nothing with his team. I cannot accept or comprehend a Hotch that does not notice JJ's fatigue. I think we have established that the writing disses Reid. It also disses Hotch. I think it implies that Hotch is tired and doesn't notice what's up. In my CM world, Hotch misses nothing.

AJ looks so very exhausted. Poor thing. She also looks very unhappy... I hope that JJ continues to have less screen time this season. I'm sure she will be well liked when she has 1 min screen time /episode or she just dissapears completely.

but the important thing is: AJ shouldn't make herself sick with working twice as hard as a man (and getting paid significantly less)

She is is unreal. The fact she came back to CM so soon after giving birth continues to blow my mind. I hope she knows that we (her fans) all appreciate her hard work and I'm sure glad JJ is back ...but AJ's health is more important. I really hope she's ok. It's heartbreaking seeing her being so tired. And i'm sure being with her baby is better than working on CM.. :'D

I don't mind if she's leaving.. sure i'll be sad, but she will be happy so i should be happy for her

[secnarf]

While I think the ridiculously short mat leaves in the US make no sense whatsoever, AJC took the time she was entitled to and with her job she's luckier than most in that she can have her baby with her on set. She could also easily afford to take several years off work to be with the baby if that is what she wanted.

There are so many people who don't have either of those luxuries and work just as hard, if not harder, away from their baby for most of the day and have no choice in the matter.

 

I am actually glad to have JJ back, but I continue to miss the old JJ. I think I have a much much higher tolerance than most for JJ the super-mom-mary-sue, but I certainly liked JJ 1.0 better. Of course, that has nothing to with AJC.

[Guesswht]

I don't think AJ is actually as tired as JJ is and I don't think AJ is making herself sick by working 'twice as hard'. How has she been working twice as hard as the men on the show when they've all been in 5 more episodes than her. I don't keep up with AJ news unless it gets posted here so I don't know if she looks unhappy and I don't know if she was recently diagnosed with some kind of disease or not but last time I checked AJ is really fit and healthy so I don't think she needs to leave the show because of health reasons. 

In the most recent episodes she looks so sad behind her smile....

Not that anyone cares. Not that anyone cares enough to notice.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Guesswht

[amensisterfriend]

I'm not sure that AJ and/or her character being tired would be such a travesty and cause for such an extreme outpouring of sympathy, at least IMO. Most people I know are in a more or less constant state of fatigue, especially new moms. But if she needs time to rest, I'd be all in favor of allowing her to get as much of it as she needs. Preferably off screen. Maybe the writers could use the time to give the character the semblance of a personality.

 

Shemar Moore, IMO, has very limited acting skills, and after watching this episode I can now add 'trying to do other actors'/characters' voices' to the long list of things they should never have him do :)