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Wilowy

By Wilowy
in Criminal Minds

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Droogie
Droogie

I adored Hotch.  I think he was stoic and honorable and felt as though the weight of the world was on his shoulders.  And as Reid is my favorite character, it was always dear to me, how Hotch never le

Danielg342
Danielg342

They're called "normal clothes", and, yeah, I miss that too.

JMO
JMO

The discussion about the upcoming 'Derek', and the promo for that episode brought me back to our prior two agent kidnappings.  It seems like this current set of writers has become progressively more v

normasm

normasm

MissMyCat, own the attitude you have expressed. I know it's great to try to think everything will be A-OK, but it's also OK, if you feel you've been "had' before and felt it lead this show in a terrible direction,to give voice to your misgivings. I won't try to talk you out of trying to put on rose-colored glasses, but I also won't begrudge you your trepidations for this direction (back) in the wrong direction. I hope our queasy feelings aren't warranted, but we have every right to speculate based on the negative as others do on the positive.

 

It's stupid, in my opinion...

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missmycat

missmycat

Oh believe me I've got a lot of misgivings about it,but sometimes I just feel the need to express a little bit of hope to keep from getting too depressed about it.

 

I just hope it doesn't interfere with any story line they might have planned for Reid. I know that they tried to somehow connect Reid's story line with Maeve to the season long unsub, but imo they weren't all that successful with it.  

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missmycat

missmycat

Like maybe better casting for the UnSub. 

 

I love, LOVE Luke Skywalker, and he is a good actor... but he was a bad Replicator. 

I totally agree with this. And although I dearly hope they will not have him stalking the team, if they do choose to go that route again, I hope that this time around the unsubs reasons for doing so will make a bit more sense than the Replicator's did.

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zannej

zannej

We don't even know how it will play out, though I do wonder if they learned anything from 8.

That's the thing that worries me. I'm not sure if they learned anything. They were in total denial about what a crapfest "200" was and marginalized any fans that disliked it as well as came up with bogus excuses as to why a lot of fans don't like the new JJ.

They continue to show too much unsub up front while skimping on the profiling.

 

And the "Black Queen" episode was a big "fuck you" to the fans that complained about Morgan and Garcia's banter getting out of hand. The way Morgan phrased it was a clear message to the fans. Sort of like how the episode "JJ" was a big "fuck you" to CBS.

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normasm

normasm

That's the thing that worries me. I'm not sure if they learned anything. They were in total denial about what a crapfest "200" was and marginalized any fans that disliked it as well as came up with bogus excuses as to why a lot of fans don't like the new JJ.

They continue to show too much unsub up front while skimping on the profiling.

 

And the "Black Queen" episode was a big "fuck you" to the fans that complained about Morgan and Garcia's banter getting out of hand. The way Morgan phrased it was a clear message to the fans. Sort of like how the episode "JJ" was a big "fuck you" to CBS.

Actually, most of season 9 was a big "Hey, guys, we learned nothing from any of the mistakes of past seasons, in fact, we're gonna do more of the things that didn't work! Bigger, badder, crappier! Enjoy!" And I agree with you, zannej, about the Black Queen being so groan-worthy. I thought Garcia looked like old crap and the story was total embarrassment.

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zannej

zannej

To be fair, I didn't see the entire Black Queen episode. I missed portions of it. I can't remember why. Something going on in real life.

 

But yeah, despite being told we wanted less unsub and more profiling, they continued to show more unsub and less profiling. I don't think they know how to do it the way the old writers did.

 

and with bringing the kids and personal drama/ love lives in, I think they want it to be sort of like the FBI version of Charmed...

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missmycat

missmycat

(edited)

The only thing that made this crappy season bearable for me. Was like Willowy, I do believe there were moments Reid really got to shine.

However as far as this Reid fan is concerned there wasn't anywhere near enough of them. I still feel for the most part that he was basically neglected during the JJ season.

Edited by missmycat
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zannej

zannej

(edited)

I'm worried that with JLH and the focus they've indicated they have on Garcia as well as JJ that it will become more like Charmed and it will be like the Power of 3 stuff. I don't have a problem with prominent or strong female characters, but I do have a problem with existing favorite characters being shoved into the background and barely used so they can turn the show into a soap opera.

 

I think I saw something that indicated

a court case will be coming up on CM. Not sure if its just a flashback or if we'll be seeing the team testifying in court. I'm hoping its the latter.

Edited by zannej
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SSAHotchner

SSAHotchner

(edited)

I actually thought the idea of the Replicator was a good one, but the way they handled the reveal was poor. The script for that season finale was crap. I hated all the stuff with Strauss. I don't mind that they killed her off, but I hated all the weeping willows over her death and the idea that all of a sudden everyone just loved her so much. They should have kept true to her character, a problem Erica seems to have with all of the characters. The finale wasn't worthy of the buildup they gave it all season long. It could have been something great.

 

I am neither getting my hopes up nor dreading the upcoming season. Just taking a wait-and-see approach. But, believe me, you will hear from me loud and clear if Hotch and Reid get the shaft again this season. I'm sick to death of all of the shirtless Morgan pics on CM Facebook lately. Give it a rest! There are other cast members worthy of some recognition.

 

Oh, and add me to the list of those who thought the Black Queen ep was crap. Totally unbelievable with what we learned about Garcia and her personality from the previous seasons.

Edited by SSAHotchner
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JMO

JMO

I didn't mind the season-long unsub either.  I just didn't like that they forgot about him for whole episodes.  'Carbon Copy' wasn't a great episode overall, but the tension about trying to hunt down the person who was hunting the team was good.  It's just that it dissipated afterward, inexplicably, and for multiple episodes......and then there was that over-full finale.  I didn't mind the Strauss pieces-----I thought they were worthwhile and worthy.  But everything else was just too crammed in.  I didn't even mind the time and special effects expended for the helicopter crash, except that we didn't really get to see anyone worrying about those in the copter for more than a second, and then all those who'd been knocked unconscious were suddenly running toward the 'Replicator house' as though nothing had happened.  It's the same lack of continuity that plagues the seasons, only now plaguing a single episode, all because of some severe editing necessitated by the poor decision to cram it all into one hour.

 

If they decide to go with a season-long unsub this year, I hope there is a slow build, at least one dedicated episode during the season, a determination to keep the tension actively present in the background of all of the rest of the cases, and then a denouement that is given its requisite two or three episodes.  Oh---and, plenty of Reid, of course! 

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zannej

zannej

So, I turned on my TV the other day and there was a Law & Order marathon. I was watching and Lola Glaudini's name splashed in the credits. It was good to see her again. Then in the very next episode that they showed (which was not in order of the original airings) they had Paget Brewster. And the one after that had a guy that I could have sworn I've seen as a guest star on CM before-- I'm thinking maybe from 3rd Life but I'm not sure. It would have been perfect if they'd aired the one with AJ, but they didn't. I sort of wished they would have had Paget and Lola in the same episode.

 

Anyway, it was CM related so I figured I'd share. I know some people aren't thrilled at the idea of Prentiss visiting again, but I would really love to see both Prentiss and Elle in the same episode interacting with one another. It would be really funny if it turned out they met outside of the BAU somehow. I know that Lola and Paget were friends (and might still be-- not sure on that).

 

I also re-watched parts of "Demons" last night. I changed the station during the chase scenes and gun fights-- which actually took up a large chunk of the episode. I remembered them dragging the first time I watched and the second time was worse. I thought maybe I had imagined them taking that long. I kept checking the time and realized it was like 5 minutes of chase scenes and gunfights. I could have gone and made popcorn and come back before the first chase scene was over.

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Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

Yeah, Paget, Lola, and AJ have all guested on SVU in the past, and Paget was on twice, as two completely different characters. Jayne Atkinson also had a one-episode role as a Strauss 'type', a lawyer who was trying to prevent Aidan Quinn's character from testifying because he worked for the government designing weapons guiding systems.

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SSAHotchner

SSAHotchner

So, I turned on my TV the other day and there was a Law & Order marathon. I was watching and Lola Glaudini's name splashed in the credits. It was good to see her again. Then in the very next episode that they showed (which was not in order of the original airings) they had Paget Brewster. And the one after that had a guy that I could have sworn I've seen as a guest star on CM before-- I'm thinking maybe from 3rd Life but I'm not sure. It would have been perfect if they'd aired the one with AJ, but they didn't. I sort of wished they would have had Paget and Lola in the same episode.

 

Anyway, it was CM related so I figured I'd share. I know some people aren't thrilled at the idea of Prentiss visiting again, but I would really love to see both Prentiss and Elle in the same episode interacting with one another. It would be really funny if it turned out they met outside of the BAU somehow. I know that Lola and Paget were friends (and might still be-- not sure on that).

 

I also re-watched parts of "Demons" last night. I changed the station during the chase scenes and gun fights-- which actually took up a large chunk of the episode. I remembered them dragging the first time I watched and the second time was worse. I thought maybe I had imagined them taking that long. I kept checking the time and realized it was like 5 minutes of chase scenes and gunfights. I could have gone and made popcorn and come back before the first chase scene was over.

I've seen Paget and AJ on SVU but not Lola. I'll have to look to see which episode she's in and try to watch for it. I love Leverage and it's amazing how many unsubs have appeared on Leverage also as bad guys. My husband gets tired of me saying, no matter what we're watching, "that guy/woman was on Criminal Minds!" :) Also watched some of Demons last night. It seems like such a long time since that episode aired the first time. Even though I still feel bad about Blake leaving, it wasn't as bad as the first time watching. I guess I'm ready for the new season to begin. I saw Unknown Subject on ION the other day. I really liked Dina Meyer and was struck again by how much I'd like to see a strong woman who is as good an actress as she is on the team. I don't have high hopes for JLH, but I'm still keeping an open mind. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised.

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Wilowy

Wilowy

  • Author

That's the spirit, SSAH! 

 

My gut tells me she'll be okay. I'm not having any violently rejective Seaver-esque feelings about her, and everyone so far has said she's cool, so we'll see. Really liked Blake, and would love more than anything to see the above suggestion come true: Emily and Elle back in the same episode... but I won't hold my breath for that one. 

 

My focus is Reid of course, and to be honest I could use a little more Hotchner in the mix. A lot more, actually. 

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SSAHotchner

SSAHotchner

I know, Willowy. The thing is, I didn't really love Blake all along. I came to respect her and then grew to like her. But I think part of my disappointment in her leaving is that I know she never really got a chance to shine. The writers just didn't give her much to work with. And, of course, I appreciated her treatment of Reid. She was always respectful of him, never put him down or rolled her eyes when he spoke. I also think the way Jeanne handled her exit was really classy, and I have much more respect for her than I did when she first signed on. I'm hoping the writers have learned from some of the mistakes they made with other characters and that they'll give the new character some good qualities that will make her likeable while not shoving her down our throats as the greatest thing to ever happen to the BAU. Let us get to know her gradually and show us why she is valuable to the team. I think the old writers did a great job of that with Prentiss and Rossi.

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Wilowy

Wilowy

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I think so too, and that's saying something considering Rossi wasn't particularly likeable when he first joined. He was kind of a jerk, actually, but he came around and his transition into a solid, even beloved teammate is definitely a writers coup. With Emily I think a lot is owed just to Paget herself. She's so natural and realistic, you really couldn't help but like her from the get-go, and she built on that throughout.

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normasm

normasm

But, Willowy, that's what was so great about rossi, at first he was a right ass! It took him a few really tough tries to get with the program, totally realistic, especially with being an OG. Or OP, I guess….

 

I'm thinking that it would be good to have Kate come in all gung-ho to fit in, (she calls herself a Boy Scout), and have to be deflated a bit, and gently shown a better way by Hotch or Rossi, or Reid. That could work...

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Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

I've seen Paget and AJ on SVU but not Lola. I'll have to look to see which episode she's in and try to watch for it.

SSAHotchner, I looked it up, and Lola's episode of SVU was called Official Story. And if you want to talk weird, some of the cast from Raising Hope has also been on CM. Garrett Dillahunt played Mason Turner in To Hell...and Back, Shannon Woodward played the UnSub's girlfriend in Zoe's Reprise, and Todd Giebenhain played the UnSub in The Eyes Have It.

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idiotwaltz

idiotwaltz

And a child molester in an episode of SVU. Dillahunt needs to stop playing creeps so well. :-P

 

Oh, yeah, I just remembered this one, it was from the Later Alex Years. With Rosie Perez. 

 

He really does, because he's got so much more range than that. He was also in a indie movie with Alan Cumming called Any Day Now, where they are a gay couple in the 1970s trying to get guardianship of a child with Down syndrome. It made me cry. A lot. 

 

I've been rewatching Huff and it's jarring to see Nathan Harris looking so healthy and being such a sweetheart to his Gram (at least in Season 1). 

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SSAHotchner

SSAHotchner

But, Willowy, that's what was so great about rossi, at first he was a right ass! It took him a few really tough tries to get with the program, totally realistic, especially with being an OG. Or OP, I guess….

 

I'm thinking that it would be good to have Kate come in all gung-ho to fit in, (she calls herself a Boy Scout), and have to be deflated a bit, and gently shown a better way by Hotch or Rossi, or Reid. That could work...

I think with Rossi, too, we saw how he really came to appreciate being part of the team and eventually realized that they are family to him.

Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

I wasn't sure where to put this, but after the previous conversation about Demonology, I thought it was fitting for it to land here. The episode Heathridge Manor, or if you prefer "Dru Finally Goes To The Loony Bin", just ended on A & E, and I'm wondering exactly what the writers had in mind with that. The UnSub's mission was supposedly to kill the devil's wives, and he got his sister to leave school so that he could keep her safe because Satan was purportedly after her. When one of his victims stays dead after being submerged, he tries to kill the sister instead because he decides she's one of the brides, and the team stops him. After he gets carted away and the girl is alone in the house, she answers a knock at the door, and the visitor says, "I've waited so long for you, Lara. It's time to come with me now." She takes his hand, and the episode ends.

 

I might need normasm to parse this one for me, because it just seems weird that a random dude would show up knowing who she is, and she grasps his hand as if she's known him forever. And that's not even mentioning the icky-yucky-gross ( Garcia) vibe I picked up on, both between Catherine and James and Lara and James. Between the devil turning up and the faux-incestuous thing, this is probably not a good ep to use to pull in a newbie.

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normasm

normasm

(edited)

Ah, Heathridge Manor, my sweet Cobalt? That was the one with the mother-son delusion (as Reid explains) where the son thinks he's responsible for protecting his sister, that his mother cut off her hand to make her less devil-attracting. It only becomes evident after James tries to kill her that she is also deluded. We know that she's aware that James thinks he sees Mother (he paints a picture every time he goes looking for a wife), but we just think she's a naive girl brought up in a sick house, she wants to go to school and be "normal."

When James kills the girl who stays dead, sister tells him he failed, then he sees mother again, changing the painting to be his sister.

Now to my favorite part, the end, when we become aware just how deluded Lara is. Please notice, when Lara goes to answer the door (the way this scene is shot reminds me of Dorothy opening the door to OZ), as her left hand, the false one, reaches for the handle, we see it is a normal, fleshandblood hand, and as she looks up, she sees this beast with a deep voice who says he's so happy to see her, and "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" plays. Lara puts her normal hand in his black-gloved one and accepts his charming entreaty. The next shot we see is from outside the house. Lara is at the door extending her hand, now her false hand, to no one. There's no one there. Hence she is totally deluded. I don't think the doorbell even rang, because the other person cleaning in the house looked up as if surprised when she said, "I'll get it!"

But that little normal hand reaching out to accept the devil's as the seductive music plays gets me every time.

Edited by normasm
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Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

Now to my favorite part, the end, when we become aware just how deluded Lara is. Please notice, when Lara goes to answer the door (the way this scene is shot reminds me of Dorothy opening the door to OZ), as her left hand, the false one, reaches for the handle, we see it is a normal, fleshandblood hand, and as she looks up, she sees this beast with a deep voice who says he's so happy to see her, and "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" plays. Lara puts her normal hand in his black-gloved one and accepts his charming entreaty. The next shot we see is from outside the house. Lara is at the door extending her hand, now her false hand, to no one. There's no one there. Hence she is totally deluded. I don't think the doorbell even rang, because the other person cleaning in the house looked up as if surprised when she said, "I'll get it!"

But that little normal hand reaching out to accept the devil's as the seductive music plays gets me every time.

Huh. I need to watch more closely next time, because I was doing other things and missed the very end of the ep, thus I didn't realize there was no one at the door. I did see that the figure had some kind of pin on the lapel of his coat, something that looked like a skull. Mostly I just thought it was weird, because Lara seemed relieved to see him in the wake of James' arrest.

 

And yeah, Willowy, for a second there I was thinking, "What is this, The Incest Episode?" Like they were gonna rip off SVU's Bombshell. (Don't ask.)

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normasm

normasm

I disagree with Willowy that this is all about incest. It isn't. It's about dillusionary illness that leads some families to perhaps only see other members as their soul mates, to eschew other possible and more societally acceptable mates because of extreme (and abnormal) fear of rejection. When James tries to seduce the somewhat plain girl, he does so not only because she's easier to entice (because she's not as attractive as some) but because he is not comfortable in that world. His world is his sister, and has been since his mother was dragged away from him screaming. No one points to the fact that the grandfather dying was his trigger. Maybe this was James' last contact with reality. A lot of stuff that appears creepy on the surface can be innocent love between parent and child, but yes, it's troubling, and sometimes downright creepy.

But totally about incest? Nope. If it were, James would not have been able to sacrifice Lara. he did so to rid his family of a terrible curse (in his mind). Remember he said that Mother and he could finally rest, implying that he was wanting to die after assuring his sister was safe. It's all about delusion, which can encompass incest, and a whole lot of other things, but this isn't an incest story. IMO

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Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

I disagree with Willowy that this is all about incest. It isn't. It's about dillusionary illness that leads some families to perhaps only see other members as their soul mates, to eschew other possible and more societally acceptable mates because of extreme (and abnormal) fear of rejection. When James tries to seduce the somewhat plain girl, he does so not only because she's easier to entice (because she's not as attractive as some) but because he is not comfortable in that world. His world is his sister, and has been since his mother was dragged away from him screaming. No one points to the fact that the grandfather dying was his trigger. Maybe this was James' last contact with reality. A lot of stuff that appears creepy on the surface can be innocent love between parent and child, but yes, it's troubling, and sometimes downright creepy.

 

I admit to being torn, primarily because I could swear that Juliet Landau (Catherine) admitted in an interview that she and the actor who played James discussed the touchy-feely stuff beforehand, and that informs my opinion of their characters' relationship. Maybe you're right, that his mother being hauled out of the room and then out of his life made him focus almost obsessively on Lara, and then when his grandfather died that was the final stressor that made him start killing. OTOH, when James tells Lara she can't go to her prom because it isn't safe for her to leave the house, he throws a mini-prom for her in their living room, and 'Smoke Gets In Your Eyes' plays then too, while they dance together. Maybe I've just read too much V.C. Andrews, but IMO it did not look entirely chaste. They might not have been the Lannisters, but it looked like something might have been afoot.

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normasm

normasm

Oh, I'm not saying there wasn't incestuous feelings going on with James for his mother and sister, I'm just saying the story was about his mental illness, which was a sick delusion that he was in mortal combat with the devil. And, we find out that his sister is just as delusional. But the primary sickness, the thing that makes James a serial killer is not the incestuous feelings, but his delusion. They could have left that part out entirely and just had him be simply killing to "protect" his sister.

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SSAHotchner

SSAHotchner

I've never been a fan of Heathridge Manor. I loved what Matthew did with it visually, but the script wasn't great. What I really enjoyed about the episode was a review/summary that someone did on TWOP. Perhaps it was one of you. It was totally hilarious. Still makes me smile to think of it. But for me, I prefer the regular old deranged killers to these bizarre, "feel sorry for me and my horrible, strange past," characters the current writers seem to be so fond of.

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