Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Belinea]

Is LoT getting a full season? If not then maybe CL does have some time to show up again on Arrow. But really wouldn't that be just the worst in general if you switched the Canary identity yet again proving to everyone that you had it right all along but messed it up and went with the other girl for reason that probably have nothing to do with the story and everything to do with BTS stuff. All that talk of Original Canary, just Canary, BC and WC could have been avoided if Sara could have just kept her jacket.

 

I don't mind Sara to be honest. I prefer her to Laurel and the only reason, I'd want her to be on Arrow for an episode or two again is because of Lance. I still feel sorry for the guy. Nobody deserves to lose their kids and if Sara can show up from time to time, maybe it could help him out a bit. I am actually curious to see the storyline they have for Lance once the grave thing is over. How will he act, what will he do? 

[Velocity23]

Sorry but enough of the Lance sisters on Arrow. the story of L/S has been present throughout 4 years. I am just honestly done.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Velocity23

[Morrigan2575]

Well keep in mind that any guest star from LoT or Flash that appears on Arrow needs to get paid. Not sure I'd want to waste Arrow's budget.

Personally, I'm done with Berlanti using Arrow as a launching pad for new spin-offs. I dont want Sara, Ray, Vixen, or any new spin-off character getting manor screentime/episodes of Arrow that could be better used to developing the series regulars.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

If Laurel's dead then there is no Lance family drama. It was all Laurel drama. I loved the Quentin and Sara scenes we got in season 2. They were fine until Laurel got added into the mix.

However I don't want Sara on Arrow, so I don't have to watch Arrow again. How must of you feel about LoT is how I feel about Arrow. Nothing interests me about the show. I keep up with what's happening to see if that changes, since it is the beginning show of the Flarrowverse. So far nothing has brought me back.

[apinknightmare]

If Laurel's dead then there is no Lance family drama. It was all Laurel drama. I loved the Quentin and Sara scenes we got in season 2. They were fine until Laurel got added into the mix.

 

Nah, if there's more than one Lance family member on the show, there will be Lance family drama. Quentin and Sara would butt heads about something at some point. 

[tarotx]

Everybody butt heads or is made to do something stupid. This show wouldn't be Arrow if not. It all depends on if you like the characters are not.

[Guest]

I like Sara. Taking up the BC name would make sense in that she wants to honor her sister but again, it's repetitive. That was Laurel's s3 storyline. I don't need to see that again. 

 

I don't think any Canary should be back on Arrow full time though. One of the reasons why I always preferred Sara is because it never really felt like she needed to be on Oliver's team. I always thought she could go off and have her own team and come back to help Team Arrow every now and then and then leave again. I feel like that would be best for Arrow.  I guess we'll soon see though. Not sure how things would work now that LoT has a second season anyway.

[apinknightmare]

Everybody butt heads or is made to do something stupid. This show wouldn't be Arrow if not. It all depends on if you like the characters are not.

 

Right, but we're talking about being tired of Lance family drama. If that's something that you don't care to see more of, it doesn't matter who the players are as long as they're Lances. And if Sara comes back, even without Laurel, there *will* be more Lance family drama.

[Sakura12]

People are tired of the Olicity Drama and the Baby Mama Drama. It does depend on whether you like the characters or not. For me I would rather Quentin and Sara interact on LoT, so I don't have to watch the Arrow drama. 

[Velocity23]

See i feel the same. Why bring Sara and Lance drama to Arrow for a guest star like Sara. Caity is the star on her own show. They can have the drama on her own show.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Oliver and Felicity are regulars on Arrow. The BMD was about Oliver, the protagonist. I hated it but it's his story. Sara was a guest star on Arrow and now has her own show so any drama about her should happen on LoT, Arrow shouldn't be burdened with it.

[tarotx]

LOl Laurel is a regular on Arrow and so is Lance. Sara was connected to them and to Oliver. I don't even know why this conversation is on going. LOT was picked up. If Sara comes back to Arrow she will be a guest star like any other guest star. Even if she becomes Black Canary*, Sara and Oliver are dark souls who are better around people who let/help them be lighter. 

 

 

 

*(Which I doubt they do because it will be a double slap to the comic book fans although because comics is something that annoys me because it's loosely applied).

Edited March 28, 2016 by tarotx

[foreverevolving]

I like Sara. Taking up the BC name would make sense in that she wants to honor her sister but again, it's repetitive. That was Laurel's s3 storyline. I don't need to see that again. 

 

Girl! she ain't gonna do it to honor her sister, she's doing it to reclaim the life and name said sister stole from her!

 

That's my story and i'm sticking to it.

[Midnight Lullaby]

LOl Laurel is a regular on Arrow and so is Lance. Sara was connected to them and to Oliver. I don't even know why this conversation is on going. LOT was picked up. If Sara comes back to Arrow she will be a guest star like other guest star. Even if she becomes Black Canary (which I doubt they do because it will be a double slap to the comic book fans although because comics is something that annoys me because it's loosely applied) Sara and Oliver are dark souls who are better around people who let/help them be lighter.

Guest stars on Arrow have a history of getting too much attention, the writers have a clear issue in prioritizing regulars and guest stars. Sara and Ray are two pretty good examples.

Laurel is going to be a regular for another two episodes, that's why we were talking about Lance and Sara as far as Lance family drama is concerned for an eventual future.

Lance is a regular but he doesn't even appear in every episode and comparing his drama to Oliver's drama isn't a fair comparison since Oliver is the protagonist.

The Lance family drama got a lot of focus in the past but if this is Oliver's show I don't see why going forward it should keep having the same focus when it would involve a regular who is the supporting character with less importance and screen time and a guest star. Especially since this guest star has her own show where her drama can and should be dealt with.

[nksarmi]

Oh for goodness sake. Sara was introduced on Arrow - was a part of the show for more than 1/4 of its run.  Her father and sister are regulars on the show and one of them - likely Laurel - is about to die.  It would not make one damn bit of sense to have Sara never grace the doors of the Arrow set again.  And I like it when my shows make sense so I do think we need to see Sara at Laurel's grave at some point.  I also think she needs to tell her dad she loves him and give him some inspirational speech so he doesn't realistically spiral down at losing both his daughters - because if Quentin is going to be tied to Donna in the future - I'd prefer it not be as a drunk, angry father who buried both his daughters.  And really, I believe only a visit from Sara will let him make peace with Laurel's death.

 

So while I love that Sara is on her own show and I appreciate people not wanting to deal with BC wars anymore - I'd hate to see them sacrifice great character moments (like Sara and Quentin after Laurel's death) because of stupid crap like that.

 

Also Caity could be getting a costume change and still not become BC - there are other options.  Like maybe IF Legends is a shorter run next season AND they guest star a bit - perhaps Ray or Kendra introduce Sara to Cisco for some changes to her suit. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by nksarmi

[Midnight Lullaby]

Oh for goodness sake. Sara was introduced on Arrow - was a part of the show for more than 1/4 of its run.  Her father and sister are regulars on the show and one of them - likely Laurel - is about to die.  It would not make one damn bit of sense to have Sara never grace the doors of the Arrow set again.  And I like it when my shows make sense so I do think we need to see Sara at Laurel's grave at some point.  I also think she needs to tell her dad she loves him and give him some inspirational speech so he doesn't realistically spiral down at losing both his daughters - because if Quentin is going to be tied to Donna in the future - I'd prefer it not be as a drunk, angry father who buried both his daughters.  And really, I believe only a visit from Sara will let him make peace with Laurel's death.

 

So while I love that Sara is on her own show and I appreciate people not wanting to deal with BC wars anymore - I'd hate to see them sacrifice great character moments (like Sara and Quentin after Laurel's death) because of stupid crap like that.

 

Also Caity could be getting a costume change and still not become BC - there are other options.  Like maybe IF Legends is a shorter run next season AND they guest star a bit - perhaps Ray or Kendra introduce Sara to Cisco for some changes to her suit.

One question: why can't Quentin visit LoT and they can have their great character moment there?

[apinknightmare]

Oh for goodness sake. Sara was introduced on Arrow - was a part of the show for more than 1/4 of its run.  Her father and sister are regulars on the show and one of them - likely Laurel - is about to die.  It would not make one damn bit of sense to have Sara never grace the doors of the Arrow set again.  And I like it when my shows make sense so I do think we need to see Sara at Laurel's grave at some point.  

 

Did I miss someone posting about how Sara should never appear on the show again? The discussion seems to be more about the possibility of her hanging around more if she takes up the BC name in Laurel's honor again (not as frequently as her spot in S2). 

Edited March 28, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Starfish35]

One question: why can't Quentin visit LoT and they can have their great character moment there?

Because presumably this hypothetical moment would be in service of Quentin's character arc, not Sara's, and as such should be a part of Arrow's storylines, not LoT's. Imagine the outcry if a major moment in service of a storyline for Felicity happened on another show, such as The Flash. *cough*

Quentin may not get much screen time right now, but he is still part of Arrow's main credited cast. As such, his storylines should be served on Arrow, not on LoT. Now if it was Quentin crossing over to give Sara a pep talk, that would be a different story, because that would be in service of Sara's storyline, not Quentin's.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Starfish35

[nksarmi]

One question: why can't Quentin visit LoT and they can have their great character moment there?

 

Because it makes more sense for it to happen on Arrow and actually it makes ZERO sense for it to happen on LoT.

 

I honestly doubt that that plot of LoT's second season would permit for us to see it's characters sitting around chatting it up with their nearest and dearest for more than a few minutes (and maybe not even that).  Furthermore, if LoT doesn't launch until January (and I personally am hoping it remains at a smaller schedule because it feels like a tighter show that way) again - it would make very little sense to address Sara's feelings about her sister's death nearly nine months after it happens.

 

But more than any of that - it should happen on Arrow because of Quentin.  He is an Arrow character who might very well be important to season five.  Quentin will likely have a relationship with another Arrow character - Donna who is related to yet another Arrow character - Felicity.  Quentin's development should take place on Arrow.  Sara talking to her father and giving him the encouragement he needs not to lose himself in the bottle would make not flipping sense on LoT. 

 

There are actually people who watch LoT who do not watch Arrow.  Why would we have character development for a non-LoT character who that show's audience doesn't know and probably doesn't care about take place on that show? And are you expecting the Arrow audience not to wonder why Quentin is sad and depressed one episode and then ok in another?  I mean - it just defies reason not to have Sara appear on Arrow for at least one episode to wrap up Laurel's death.  Anything else would be stupid.

Did I miss someone posting about how Sara should never appear on the show again? The discussion seems to be more about the possibility of her hanging around more if she takes up the BC name in Laurel's honor again (not as frequently as her spot in S2). 

 

Actually the general tone of the discussion did seem to be slanting toward Sara should never appear on Arrow again because she would take too much time away from whatever and anything related to the Lance's should happen on LoT.  I was merely suggesting that didn't make one damn bit of sense.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Because presumably this hypothetical moment would be in service of Quentin's character arc, not Sara's, and as such should be a part of Arrow's storylines, not LoT's. Imagine the outcry if a major moment in service of a storyline for Felicity happened on another show, such as The Flash. *cough*

Laurel's death will have an equal impact on both Lance and Sara. For one is the daughter, the other the sister. I don't understand why we should suppose that Quentin is going to spiral while Sara will be chill and come to give him advices about life. It could very well be the other way around. Especially for those who are speculating about Sara's change of costume being linked to what's going to happen with Laurel.

I don't even remember what major moment of Felicity's SL happened on the Flash so not much outcry from me and I can't honestly see anyone having such a reaction for Lance and I'm saying this as someone who likes him. Also we saw his reaction to losing a daughter twice already on Arrow so I think we got our fill already.

[ComicFan777]

I could see Lance scenes crossing over LoT after the death to see how Sara was holding up - just as we saw a scene on the sizzle reel of Ray dropping by to see Felicity - similarly to Ray and Felicity scenes that probably will happen from time to time, Sara dropping by Lance's office for some father-daughter time whenever she is back in town.  I'm guessing we will see a mix of both - some on legends and some on Arrow.

[apinknightmare]

Actually the general tone of the discussion did seem to be slanting toward Sara should never appear on Arrow again because she would take too much time away from whatever and anything related to the Lance's should happen on LoT.  I was merely suggesting that didn't make one damn bit of sense.

 

Ah, I thought it was a worry that her taking up the BC mantle would lead to more time for her on Arrow, which would lead to the Lance-family focus/drama once again. I agree with you that it doesn't make any sense for her to never show up again. I also don't think that the worry that she will show up more is completely unfounded. 

[Guest]

Eh. Saying you don't think Sara should be on Arrow full time does not equate with not wanting Sara to appear on Arrow ever again. I'm quite happy to see Sara back on the show. I think they missed the chance for some good character moments after she was resurrected with Sara/Thea, Sara/Quentin and Oliver/Sara. I just don't think a full-time Canary is needed. And I'm not sure it's even an issue seeing as Legends has a second season anyway. She can pop in the show every now and then. I actually think that will happen.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Guest

[Starfish35]

Also we saw his reaction to losing a daughter twice already on Arrow so I think we got our fill already.

There is no way they're going to kill Laurel off and not have an arc of Quentin reacting to it. That just isn't going to happen. It's already been foreshadowed in his talk with her in 409.

I don't understand why we should suppose that Quentin is going to spiral while Sara will be chill and come to give him advices about life.

I'm not supposing anything. I was responding to your response to nksarmi's scenario saying why couldn't that be done on LoT? And I'm saying IF such a scenario was to occur (hence my use of the word hypothetical), it would be in service of Quentin's arc, not Sara's, and as such should happen on Arrow, not LoT.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Starfish35

[Midnight Lullaby]

Because it makes more sense for it to happen on Arrow and actually it makes ZERO sense for it to happen on LoT.

I honestly doubt that that plot of LoT's second season would permit for us to see it's characters sitting around chatting it up with their nearest and dearest for more than a few minutes (and maybe not even that). Furthermore, if LoT doesn't launch until January (and I personally am hoping it remains at a smaller schedule because it feels like a tighter show that way) again - it would make very little sense to address Sara's feelings about her sister's death nearly nine months after it happens.

But more than any of that - it should happen on Arrow because of Quentin. He is an Arrow character who might very well be important to season five. Quentin will likely have a relationship with another Arrow character - Donna who is related to yet another Arrow character - Felicity. Quentin's development should take place on Arrow. Sara talking to her father and giving him the encouragement he needs not to lose himself in the bottle would make not flipping sense on LoT.

There are actually people who watch LoT who do not watch Arrow. Why would we have character development for a non-LoT character who that show's audience doesn't know and probably doesn't care about take place on that show? And are you expecting the Arrow audience not to wonder why Quentin is sad and depressed one episode and then ok in another? I mean - it just defies reason not to have Sara appear on Arrow for at least one episode to wrap up Laurel's death. Anything else would be stupid.

Actually the general tone of the discussion did seem to be slanting toward Sara should never appear on Arrow again because she would take too much time away from whatever and anything related to the Lance's should happen on LoT. I was merely suggesting that didn't make one damn bit of sense.

In fact it would make sense for Lance to cross over after Arrow 4x18 on LoT S1 in whatever episode is set after Laurel's death to see how Sara is holding up, especially if she missed the funeral. To me it would have also made sense to have Sara at the funeral and I don't know why that didn't happen.

The rest is a lot of assumptions on what they are doing with Lance in the long run that no one can know.

And the argument that people who watch LoT might not watch Arrow can be made for any show and it's the downside of having a shared universe and crossovers. Arrow and The Flash suffered to launch LoT and having a lot of focus on characters that were intended for another show didn't please many people.

And I wasn't suggesting to have an arc for Quentin on LoT, but if there has to be Lance family drama in the future and it's about Sara as much as it is about Quentin I don't see why it has to be done on Arrow where he has a minor role if compared to Sara's on LoT.

There is no way they're going to kill Laurel off and not have an arc of Quentin reacting to it. That just isn't going to happen. It's already been foreshadowed in his talk with her in 409.

I'm not supposing anything. I was responding to your response to nksarmi's scenario saying why couldn't that be done on LoT? And I'm saying IF such a scenario was to occur (hence my use of the word hypothetical), it would be in service of Quentin's arc, not Sara's, and as such should happen on Arrow, not LoT.

I'll be careful with assumptions on Arrow.

Then you misunderstood what I was saying..I wasn't agreeing on what she thinks might happen with Quentin because I honestly don't know. I talked about both characters having a "great character moment", in particular what I had in mind was Quentin going to see Sara after she didn't go to Laurel's funeral.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[Starfish35]

Sara is traveling through time. She isn't in a place where he can just go and see her. I doubt Sara is even going to find out about Laurel's death until after they defeat Savage (they might surprise me on this, but Rip seems like the kind of guy who'd keep that info to himself until the mission was over). Anyway. my point is, whenever Sara finds out about Laurel, she's going to have to be the one to take the initiative to come back to Star City, because Quentin can't just hop in his time machine for a visit (although maybe he can ask his ex-wife for a favor-lol).

Edited March 28, 2016 by Starfish35

[nksarmi]

I don't think we will see Quentin on Legends.  But part of that belief is founded in a spoiler about the end of season one of Legends and how it builds into season two's mission.  It just doesn't feel like there would be an opportunity for Quentin to pop over there.  Frankly, if we see him on Legends - I believe it will be entirely in flashback or future form - not present day.

 

I think Felicity's appearance in the sizzle reel will be explained as easily as Cisco's was in the Russian episode and it won't be for character development purposes.  LoT seems to be both sensitive to the fact that a lot of its fans came from Arrow or Flash and to the fact that some of their audience is new to the Flarrowverse.  So it seems to me that they try to use Flarrowverse characters in such a way that it's a treat for pre-established fans but won't confuse "outsiders" so to speak.  Conversely, Flash and Arrow seem to assume that you will watch the other shows so having Felicity fight bee lady over there and then bringing bee lady here won't make anyone miss a beat, you know?

 

Anyway, my point is that Sara should react to Laurel's death on Arrow and she should comfort her father on Arrow.  And yes, I do assume that Quentin will spiral and Sara will not because Quentin will blame himself directly because it will likely be something related to Darhk/HIVE that gets her killed where Sara can only blame herself for not being around.  And if Oliver couldn't save Laurel - why would Sara believe she could?  Guilt has a lot to do with how people accept death - Quentin should have it moreso than Sara.  And frankly, it would be borderline hilarious (but in a really mean meta kind of way) is Quentin was like "whatever" to Laurel's death after both of Sara's shock him up so bad  He should spiral and someone should give him a reason not to that isn't blind revenge and that someone should be Sara.

 

And while I say all of this should happen on Arrow, that doesn't mean it needs to be more than the B plot of one episode.  It's just that rather you like it or not - I think the only place for Lance "drama" is Arrow. It doesn't make sense on LoT for timing, tone, plot, and other reasons.

Eh. Saying you don't think Sara should be on Arrow full time does not equate with not wanting Sara to appear on Arrow ever again. I'm quite happy to see Sara back on the show. I think they missed the chance for some good character moments after she was resurrected with Sara/Thea, Sara/Quentin and Oliver/Sara. I just don't think a full-time Canary is needed. And I'm not sure it's even an issue seeing as Legends has a second season anyway. She can pop in the show every now and then. I actually think that will happen.

 

My reaction wasn't to people saying Sara shouldn't be on Arrow full-time again - I mean she has her own show so I don't think that's even an issue.  My reaction was to the idea that Lance drama (including anything related to Sara and Quentin) should happen on Legends.  And I don't think that was you, but it was said.  Legends just isn't the place for that - Arrow is.

 

And I too think Arrow really missed the boat on some great Thea/Sara scenes earlier this season.

In fact it would make sense for Lance to cross over after Arrow 4x18 on LoT S1 in whatever episode is set after Laurel's death to see how Sara is holding up, especially if she missed the funeral. To me it would have also made sense to have Sara at the funeral and I don't know why that didn't happen.
The rest is a lot of assumptions on what they are doing with Lance in the long run that no one can know.
And the argument that people who watch LoT might not watch Arrow can be made for any show and it's the downside of having a shared universe and crossovers. Arrow and The Flash suffered to launch LoT and having a lot of focus on characters that were intended for another show didn't please many people.
And I wasn't suggesting to have an arc for Quentin on LoT, but if there has to be Lance family drama in the future and it's about Sara as much as it is about Quentin I don't see why it has to be done on Arrow where he has a minor role if compared to Sara's on LoT.

I'll be careful with assumptions on Arrow.

Then you misunderstood what I was saying..I wasn't agreeing on what she thinks might happen with Quentin because I honestly don't know. I talked about both characters having a "great character moment", in particular what I had in mind was Quentin going to see Sara after she didn't go to Laurel's funeral.

 

Do you watch LoT?  I mean, I don't care if you do or not.  But by the time the death occurs, Sara could be anywhere in time.  How the hell could Quentin just "cross over" to LoT?  I mean, that is part of why I'm saying it doesn't make sense.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I understand the difficulties of making Lance appear on LoT but as long as it's fiction they can make it happen. As they could have made Sara appear at Laurel's funeral. What they need is the will to make it work, not much else.

Arrow, The Flash and LoT exist in a shared universe, that's why they have characters appear in all those shows, but they and we know those show have difference audiences, just the number of viewers tell us so, but they still believe crossover help with the ratings and that's why they keep doing it, not because they assume they have the same audience, not Arrow and The Flash, not Arrow, The Flash, LoT, they know they don't. And I was referring to the development of Hawkgirl on The Flash, of Ray on Arrow S3 to launch LoT. Those were characters whose main purpose on those show was to gain an audience for another show so those viewers who didn't know them, didn't plan to watch LoT and wanted to see their shows focus on characters they cared about weren't happy.

And I think Quentin will be devastated in 4x18-19 but I wouldn't be so far as assuming he will spiral because they did that with him already so I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to take him in another direction.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[Chaser]

All I'm getting is no one wants Lance Family so we are all trying to shove it on the other show.

Honestly Sara and Lance need to have reactions to Laurels death. Both on LOT and Arrow. Arrow needs to carry the bulk of it because Laurel was a character on Arrow and her death affects all the players. LOT isn't dealing with the aftermath so Saras reaction is a character beat. Personally I think finding a way to get Lance on LOT is the best way to do that. Also, you get the added bonus of watching Lance react to time travel and the other players. I think that would be amusing.

As for the logistics of getting Lance on LOT. No logic is applied to that show anyway so if they want it to happen it will.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Chaser

[ComicFan777]

I'm not sure if Lance will spiral.  BTS pics of Lance, Felicity, and Bam Bam makes me wonder...wouldn't it be cool if Felicity is hell-bent on finishing LL's work by taking DD/HIVE down, and so there's a Lance-Felicity team up to take down the bad guys - maybe Lance would try another way to cope this time by doing things to make LL proud of him.  This would align more with MG saying that the characters will respond differently this season, with more hope.

Edited March 28, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Midnight Lullaby]

I don't think we will see Quentin on Legends.  But part of that belief is founded in a spoiler about the end of season one of Legends and how it builds into season two's mission.  It just doesn't feel like there would be an opportunity for Quentin to pop over there.  Frankly, if we see him on Legends - I believe it will be entirely in flashback or future form - not present day.

 

I think Felicity's appearance in the sizzle reel will be explained as easily as Cisco's was in the Russian episode and it won't be for character development purposes.  LoT seems to be both sensitive to the fact that a lot of its fans came from Arrow or Flash and to the fact that some of their audience is new to the Flarrowverse.  So it seems to me that they try to use Flarrowverse characters in such a way that it's a treat for pre-established fans but won't confuse "outsiders" so to speak.  Conversely, Flash and Arrow seem to assume that you will watch the other shows so having Felicity fight bee lady over there and then bringing bee lady here won't make anyone miss a beat, you know?

 

Anyway, my point is that Sara should react to Laurel's death on Arrow and she should comfort her father on Arrow.  And yes, I do assume that Quentin will spiral and Sara will not because Quentin will blame himself directly because it will likely be something related to Darhk/HIVE that gets her killed where Sara can only blame herself for not being around.  And if Oliver couldn't save Laurel - why would Sara believe she could?  Guilt has a lot to do with how people accept death - Quentin should have it moreso than Sara.  And frankly, it would be borderline hilarious (but in a really mean meta kind of way) is Quentin was like "whatever" to Laurel's death after both of Sara's shock him up so bad  He should spiral and someone should give him a reason not to that isn't blind revenge and that someone should be Sara.

 

And while I say all of this should happen on Arrow, that doesn't mean it needs to be more than the B plot of one episode.  It's just that rather you like it or not - I think the only place for Lance "drama" is Arrow. It doesn't make sense on LoT for timing, tone, plot, and other reasons.

 

My reaction wasn't to people saying Sara shouldn't be on Arrow full-time again - I mean she has her own show so I don't think that's even an issue.  My reaction was to the idea that Lance drama (including anything related to Sara and Quentin) should happen on Legends.  And I don't think that was you, but it was said.  Legends just isn't the place for that - Arrow is.

 

And I too think Arrow really missed the boat on some great Thea/Sara scenes earlier this season.

 

Do you watch LoT?  I mean, I don't care if you do or not.  But by the time the death occurs, Sara could be anywhere in time.  How the hell could Quentin just "cross over" to LoT?  I mean, that is part of why I'm saying it doesn't make sense.

No, I don't. But didn't they have Laurel on LoT? Also it's fiction. If they want to make it happen they can.

[Starfish35]

Honestly Sara and Lance need to have reactions to Laurels death. Both on LOT and Arrow. Arrow needs to carry the bulk of it because Laurel was a character on Arrow and her death affects all the players. LOT isn't dealing with the aftermath so Saras reaction is a character beat.

I agree with this.

About Quentin. I don't know how he's going to react. Whether he's going to spiral or react some other way. I'm just saying....he will have some sort of reaction arc. They're not going to kill off Laurel and not have that play out somehow next season as a storyline for the person she was closest to.

[nksarmi]

All I'm getting is no one wants Lance Family so we are all trying to shove it on the other show.

Honestly Sara and Lance need to have reactions to Laurels death. Both on LOT and Arrow. Arrow needs to carry the bulk of it because Laurel was a character on Arrow and her death affects all the players. LOT isn't dealing with the aftermath so Saras reaction is a character beat. Personally I think finding a way to get Lance on LOT is the best way to do that. Also, you get the added bonus of watching Lance react to time travel and the other players. I think that would be amusing.

As for the logistics of getting Lance on LOT. No logic is applied to that show anyway so if they want it to happen it will.

 

I have no major objection to getting Lance on LoT at some point in time, but I do not think it will be this season.  Like Starfish, I don't believe Sara will find out about Laurel's death until they defeat Savage.  I think it's very possible Sara won't be seen at Laurel's grave until late in the season for Arrow or even next season.  I think Quentin will survive on helping take down those who did this to Laurel at first but at some point, he needs to be tempted to drink (it fits his character).  They could have Donna and Felicity pull him out of it - but to put it firmly to bed, it would be best served by a Sara scene. 

 

I think it could go something like this - Quentin works with Team Arrow to take down whoever is responsible.  Then in the final episode of this season - since Legends ends one week before Arrow - we get a Quentin / Sara scene by Laurel's graveside.  At the same time, she tells him she's going on another mission and that he should be proud that he raised his daughters to be heroes or something cheesy like that.  This should give us enough closure that Quentin can believably be happy with Donna in season five and not make us side-eye them since Quentin and Laurel have been shown so close this season.

[Chaser]

Does anyone else just stop and think about the fact that we are talking about Laurels death? Like its a fact?

Lol - who'd have thunk it?

[Starfish35]

No, I don't. But didn't they have Laurel on LoT? Also it's fiction. If they want to make it happen they can.

They had her in the premiere, before they left on the mission.

So far, no one yet has visited Arrow in their current timeline, after leaving for the mission (or Flash at all, actually). We saw Oliver in a possible future, we're going to be seeing Quentin in the past. However, that may change. There is that Felicity and Ray scene in the LoT trailer that looks to be timed about 413 for Arrow. That might suggest the LoT crew does stop back by around that time period for some reason. Or maybe there's another explanation for that scene?

Edited March 28, 2016 by Starfish35

[quarks]

I expect next season will be featuring a number of crossovers between all three shows, not because it's particularly needed for anyone's character development, but just because so far the crossover episodes appear to benefit both Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow, and although Flash fans have (understandably, I think) complained about the crossovers, they don't appear to be hurting Flash - much. Ok, Flash did drop to a series low after the most recent Diggle/Lyla crossover, but that episode itself did fine. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

They had her in the premiere, before they left on the mission.

So far, no one yet has visited Arrow in their current timeline, after leaving for the mission (or Flash at all, actually). We saw Oliver in a possible future, we're going to be seeing Quentin in the past. However, that may change. There is that Felicity and Ray scene in the LoT trailer that looks to be timed about 413 for Arrow. That might suggest the LoT crew does stop back by around that time period for some reason. Or maybe there's another explanation for that scene?

Thank you.

Yeah, I saw those pics of Felicity and Ray that suggest that. I think they could have had that happen in time to see Sara at Laurel's funeral. I understand the issues but it wasn't impossible to make it happen and it's just weird to me seeing Dinah there and not Sara. It makes sense of course to have Laurel's mom there but to me as a viewer Sara and her relationship with LL is more familiar.

[tangerine95]

I'll take Lance family drama if Laurel's death is the cause of it. Its a price I'm more than willing to pay lol.

I'm tired of Lance drama tbh but I really don't think we'll get much more at least at middle season 2 level because imo Laurel was responsible for the worst part of it. I do think it makes more sense to deal with their shared drama and Sara's reaction over Laurel dying on LoT because Sara is pretty much a lead there and it can get more focus that way without disrupting arrow story for character beats for someone on a different show.We'll get enough of dealing with people mourning Laurel without adding Sara to it. They can do a scene or two with Sara for Quentin's benefit on arrow imo but more would be annoying after all the time we already wasted on the Lance family and spinoff characters.

[nksarmi]

Thank you.

Yeah, I saw those pics of Felicity and Ray that suggest that. I think they could have had that happen in time to see Sara at Laurel's funeral. I understand the issues but it wasn't impossible to make it happen and it's just weird to me seeing Dinah there and not Sara. It makes sense of course to have Laurel's mom there but to me as a viewer Sara and her relationship with LL is more familiar.

 

Well, for out of show reasons - perhaps they didn't get the go ahead to kill Laurel in time to plan for Sara to somehow be around?  I mean, the LoT plot is complex and to get Sara in 2016 they would have needed to know well in advance to work that in.  Since it seems like there was both debate and secrecy over the death this season - perhaps they just couldn't do it by the time it was known?

 

For in show reasons - LoT will probably have a very interesting scene between Sara and Rip tie into Laurel's death if like many of suspect Rip isn't going to be able to save his wife and son but will have to accept their deaths and then the team can defeat Savage. 

[apinknightmare]

I think it'll be interesting to see whatever excuse they use for Sara not going back in time to prevent Laurel's death. I'm guessing we'll have Oliver tell her about the time traveling from the crossover, with a reiteration of, "when you mess with time, time messes back," which will be an interesting argument to make to Sara since that's pretty much what she and her cohorts are doing over on LoT.

[Starfish35]

I think it'll be interesting to see whatever excuse they use for Sara not going back in time to prevent Laurel's death. I'm guessing we'll have Oliver tell her about the time traveling from the crossover, with a reiteration of, "when you mess with time, time messes back," which will be an interesting argument to make to Sara since that's pretty much what she and her cohorts are doing over on LoT.

Yeah, I was about to post something about this. I do think they need to address it somehow, and not just ignore it. This, however, is something I think would probably be better handled on LoT than on Arrow. I'm just not sure if, when, or how they will.

[ComicFan777]

I think it'll be interesting to see whatever excuse they use for Sara not going back in time to prevent Laurel's death. I'm guessing we'll have Oliver tell her about the time traveling from the crossover, with a reiteration of, "when you mess with time, time messes back," which will be an interesting argument to make to Sara since that's pretty much what she and her cohorts are doing over on LoT.

 

That's a good point.  Was it ever addressed in Legends why we don't see the bad consequences of messing with time like we do in Flash and Arrow?

 

[nksarmi]

The best Legends has said is that some things about time WILL happen.  You can change the details but not the fact that it will happen and this has come from Rip himself.  That's part of the reason why many people over on the LoT forums are starting to think that the team is only going to be able to defeat Savage in Rip's time - perhaps not even being able to save his wife and son.

 

So in a way it's kind of like the whole season is going to be an exercise in Rip accepting that he can't change what's happened but he has assembled and trained the team that ultimately WILL defeat Savage so he still ends up "saving the world." 

 

Of course, who knows what NEXT season will argue about changing timelines but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. :)

[tv echo]

Here's something to think about...

 

I just posted a recap of the LoT panel at WonderCon in the Mind Your Surroundings thread. Apparently MG said that if LoT had not gone forward, both Sara Lance (CL) and Ray Palmer (BR) would've returned to Arrow.

Edited March 28, 2016 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

That's a good point.  Was it ever addressed in Legends why we don't see the bad consequences of messing with time like we do in Flash and Arrow?

Well there are definitely consequences. That's one of the reasons the Time Masters are out to eliminate Rip and his team, because they're trampling about in history and making all sorts of changes. Rip has basically decided that the costs of not stopping Savage outweigh the costs of messing with time.

He also said something about....how did he put it? Basically time doesn't want to change. Some things are going to happen whatever you do. Like Carter and Kendra's son dying in the premiere. Before they came along, he died of unknown causes in his office. After they came, he died of injuries inflicted by the bounty hunter sent after them by the Time Masters.

[ComicFan777]

Well there are definitely consequences. That's one of the reasons the Time Masters are out to eliminate Rip and his team, because they're trampling about in history and making all sorts of changes. Rip has basically decided that the costs of not stopping Savage outweigh the costs of messing with time.

 

 

Does that mean we will see the ripple effects in Arrow and Flash because of their time travels?  Like, would it affect Oliver's flashbacks where he has interacted with so many different people?

 

Edited March 28, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Starfish35]

Here's something to think about...

I just posted a recap of the LoT panel at WonderCon in the Mind Your Surroundings thread. Apparently MG said that if LoT had not gone forward, both Sara Lance (CL) and Ray Palmer (BR) would've returned to Arrow.

I'm hearing a giant sigh of relief from the Arrow fandom....lol. :)

No, seriously. I'm not surprised at all about Ray. But is he actually saying that even if LoT hadn't been ordered to series, they would still have resurrected Sara and brought her back to Arrow? Wow. That's quite a statement. And again makes me wonder. When exactly did they know they were killing Laurel off?

Does that mean we will see the ripple effects in Arrow and Flash because of their time travels?

Technically we probably should, but I don't think we ever will.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Starfish35

[tarotx]

I think they knew a Lance was going to dis before season 3 ended. They just needed to get permission for it to be Laurel. If they didn't get permission it would have been Lance. So Karma was coming because Laurel would bring Sara back, making Nyssa kill the Lazarus pit. They probably started thinking of this as they were resurrecting Thea in the Pit and knew they didn't want Death to not matter any more. Of course this was after they created LOT but before it was picked up.

[AyChihuahua]

Ray coming back as a regular would be bizarre, and I don't really believe anything they say about Sara anymore (plus they really just don't need such an overstuffed cast). Those characters do not fit in as side stories on a non-ensemble show. It would have been a disaster to bring them both back as regulars. And I'm not just saying that because I loathe the Cane Toad. I mean, I love Sara, but she shouldn't be a regular on Arrow, either.

[Starfish35]

I expect next season will be featuring a number of crossovers between all three shows, not because it's particularly needed for anyone's character development, but just because so far the crossover episodes appear to benefit both Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow, and although Flash fans have (understandably, I think) complained about the crossovers, they don't appear to be hurting Flash - much. Ok, Flash did drop to a series low after the most recent Diggle/Lyla crossover, but that episode itself did fine.

It's interesting. I just realized that all the LoT crossovers this season have been Arrow crossovers. No, wait, that's not true. There was that one scene where Stein hallucinated Cisco. But other than that, they've all been Arrow. Even in the premiere, Ray talked to Oliver and Sara talked to Laurel. The Flash characters (Cold, Heatwave, Jax and Stein, Hawkgirl) all talked amongst themselves. And it doesn't look like that's going to change for the rest of the season, going by the sizzle reel. We see Felicity, Quentin, and Nyssa, but no Flash characters at all.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Starfish35