Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

 

 

Doing things here and there yeah I can totally see, but I was mainly thinking of more of a fuller time of field work which wouldn't make much sense for her.

 

Yeah, I don't think anyone wants that. 

Edited January 27, 2016 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

Felicity going into Merlyn Global with Oliver will forever be one of my most favorite moments of the series. :')

[AyChihuahua]

And the Merlyn job, and the bank. She also parachuted to the island. 

[Chaser]

I really hope that means it's not Overmatch, but I'm actually concerned the internet gave them that idea.

[SonofaBiscuit]

LOL.  I love Laura Hurley's very diplomatic response to the question about Laurel and Oliver.  No, I do not think that "Lauriver is on the rise."  I expect that Oliver and Laurel will briefly interact, there will probably be some hostility involved, and then Oliver will go back to ignoring her, just as he has for the last few seasons.  

[apinknightmare]

He actually *kind of* referred to Felicity as Overwatch in the comics, so if the internet gave him the idea, I'm thinking it's Firewall.

Edited January 27, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

He actually *kind of* referred to Felicity as Overwatch in the comics, so if the internet gave him the idea, I'm thinking it's Firewall.

I like Firewall, so I'm cool with that.

 

I wonder how long it will be before some scream fan-service.

[Sakura12]

I don't see why Felicity can't go out in the field after she heals, all it takes is two boxing lessons and a costume. 

[wonderwall]

I don't see why Felicity can't go out in the field after she heals, all it takes is two boxing lessons and a costume. 

See, but Felicity has much more common sense than other people. She'd realize that because she's not very skilled, she doesn't want to be a hindrance to the team out in the field. She'd want her team to be focused on the mission and not focusing on keeping her safe. Felicity wouldn't demand to go in the field unless her skills were necessary to accomplishing the mission which always comes first... Unlike other characters we know...

[statsgirl]

Since Reiter is connected to Shadowspire, will we have Oliver tell Diggle he recognizes the symbol or the name?

 

I wonder how long it will be before some scream fan-service.

It's only fan-service if they weren't going to give her a codename at all.  Not that that will make any difference to the Comics Only crowd.

 

I like Firewall too.  I wonder which fan came up with the name they're going to use.

 

 

I'm sorry to butt in, but that's not what was happening at all. She had no idea he intended to fight the League of Assassins. She was under the assumption that he had traded his life in order to save Thea's, hence the drugging and last-minute desperate escape attempt.

At that point when she drugged him, I agree that she thought he was gone forever.  But from what he said as they were saying good-bye afterwards, I got the feeling that he was going to try to get through this and get back to her.  And then it all fell apart when Ra's said he was going to destroy Starling City next week and the only thing Oliver could think of was to sacrifice himself.

As much as I hate the dungeon cell and fake killing, it was the only way he could save Felicity and Diggle from the virus.

[Primal Slayer]

If she wants to suit up more power to her, when the city is going to hell sometimes tough decisions have to be made especially when you are willing to go in alone. 

I think if Olicity due break up due to the lie it would be totally reasonable for her to do. She doesn't want to support the same bad habits over and over again, she wants Oliver to trust her and the whole Al Sha-Him thing would probably come to her mind as yet another time he didn't trust her.

Since Reiter is connected to Shadowspire, will we have Oliver tell Diggle he recognizes the symbol or the name?

 

It's only fan-service if they weren't going to give her a codename at all.  Not that that will make any difference to the Comics Only crowd.

 

 

I doubt the comics only crowd will even care. Only way it would probably be negative is if it were Oracle which it isnt so I don't see any kind of major backlash.

[Guest]

Why do people assume that if we want Felicity to take part in some stunts occasionally we suddenly want her to be out in the field full time and wearing a mask? NOPE. I have no interest in seeing Felicity wear a costume or a mask. I think her not wearing one is actually what makes her unique now in a show full of seemingly replaceable masks. But the fact is there was a time when Felicity went out into the field sometimes and it was fun and I'd like to see that again. No chance with her being in a wheelchair now. Certainly convenient. Huh...

 

I like Firewall, so I'm cool with that.

 

I wonder how long it will be before some scream fan-service.

 

It's already started on twitter. You should hear it. Pathetic. Apparently tumblr writes the show... SMH.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Guest

[Sakura12]

I'm not saying she should or needs too, I was just pointing out how easy it is to become a masked hero on this show now. 

[Guest]

I'm not saying she should or needs too, I was just pointing out how easy it is to become a masked hero on this show now. 

 

My comment wasn't directed at you and I totally agree. They might as well hand out masks at the entrance to the city.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

I kinda think if Felicity got a mask full time [she won't], Arrow and I would breakup forever just. like. that.

[Primal Slayer]

But the fact is there was a time when Felicity went out into the field sometimes and it was fun and I'd like to see that again. No chance with her being in a wheelchair now. Certainly convenient. Huh...

 

Not seeing it. She was in the field in 4x06, I doubt keeping her out of missions was on their mind when they decided to paralyze her.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[catrox14]

I'm kind of becoming worried about Olicity ending permanently :(

 

I honestly feel like if the show  breaks up Olicity due to Felicity having enough of Oliver's lies and sins of omissions, I can't see how they can ever really get back together without Felicity looking like a total pushover. And I can't think of what possible thing  Oliver could  do to get her to trust him again once the feeling of betrayal becomes settled in a person it's really difficult to trust again.

 

 

Talk me out of my negativity, Arrowites....:/

[Guest]

Not seeing it. She was in the field in 4x06, I doubt keeping her out of missions was the last thing on their mind when they decided to paralyze her.

 

I'm trying not to be snarky but this was once this season. One time. When she wasn't even in a wheelchair.

 

And I wouldn't put it past this show to make sure she can't participate in the field ever again. 

[Primal Slayer]

I'm not saying she should or needs too, I was just pointing out how easy it is to become a masked hero on this show now. 

Anyone can put on a mask anyway, living to fight another day and tell the tale is different. But not everyone needs to be stranded on an island and flown all over the world for 5 years in order to take up the life style either. Everyone learns things on different speeds. 

[AyChihuahua]

I'm kind of becoming worried about Olicity ending permanently :(

 

I honestly feel like if the show  breaks up Olicity due to Felicity having enough of Oliver's lies and sins of omissions, I can't see how they can ever really get back together without Felicity looking like a total pushover. And I can't think of what possible thing  Oliver could  do to get her to trust him again once the feeling of betrayal becomes settled in a person it's really difficult to trust again.

 

 

Talk me out of my negativity, Arrowites....:/

IRL, yes. This show is anti-IRL. I'm not sure how long it will last, but they'll definitely end up back together.

[Primal Slayer]

I'm trying not to be snarky but this was once this season. One time. When she wasn't even in a wheelchair.

 

And I wouldn't put it past this show to make sure she can't participate in the field ever again. 

How many times was she in the field last season? But considering that most of the field work is at some abandoned place fighting off ghosts this season, I don't see why she would even have to be in the field anyway, there would be nothing for her to do. 

[apinknightmare]

Someone please make it stop. Where's my gif?!

Edited January 27, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

How many times was she in the field last season? But considering that most of the field work is at some abandoned place fighting off ghosts this season, I don't see why she would even have to be in the field anyway, there would be nothing for her to do. 

 

Not many times at all last season. And I was annoyed about it then too. She was allowed in s1 and s2 a few times but that's back when it was only her, Diggle and Oliver on the team.

 

But let's just agree to disagree because this is going nowhere. 

[Primal Slayer]

All I wanted to know.

[dtissagirl]

[catrox14]

IRL, yes. This show is anti-IRL. I'm not sure how long it will last, but they'll definitely end up back together.

 

Within the show they have established a pattern already with Felicity having trust issues with Oliver.

[EmeraldArcher]

I'm trying not to be snarky but this was once this season. One time. When she wasn't even in a wheelchair.

 

And I wouldn't put it past this show to make sure she can't participate in the field ever again. 

 

Actually, she was in the field twice in 4X09, although neither were missions.  At the bay clean-up, she was in the midst of the action and saved everybody by bringing down the drones.  Those who usually wear masks were forced to hide behind children.  Later in the same episode, Felicity helped with her and her teammates' escape by taking out one of the bad guys with a pretty brutal blow.  At the end of this episode in which she was heroic physically and using her brain, she was effectively taken out of any similar scenes in the near future.  

 

Felicity has always been brave, and I think she's always had the purest motive for joining Team Arrow--she helped to save a dying man when she found him in her backseat, and she stayed on so she could help find Walter.  The next episode, she challenged Oliver to think about "the real good he could be doing for the city."  And then everything changed.

 

So, as much as I'm glad they're giving her a personal story, I think they have to find challenges for her because none of the other heroes compare to her altruistic motivations, her intellect, or her strength of character.

[apinknightmare]

Within the show they have established a pattern already with Felicity having trust issues with Oliver.

 

When was this? Honestly asking, because I don't recall Felicity ever taking issue with things most people probably would. 

[Guest]

 

I actually snort laugh at this gif every single time. Haha.

[statsgirl]

I hate that gif because I like horses so I move the cursor quickly past when it appears.

[Chaser]

BRIAN FORD SULLIVAN CONFIRMED A DIGGLE/FELICITY SCENE. THIS IS NOT A DRILL!

[catrox14]

When was this? Honestly asking, because I don't recall Felicity ever taking issue with things most people probably would. 

 

I don't mean issues like Oliver possibly cheating on her or anything like that.

[statsgirl]

I like Brian Ford Sullivan, he's still young and idealistic about the show.  (Even if he did send out that tweet about the Oliver/BM feels.)

 

I'm kind of becoming worried about Olicity ending permanently :(

Nope. They are the Meredith/Derek of this show, hopefully ending before Felicity dies since we know Oliver lives to his 80s.

 

The writing may be crap and they may break up and get back together a number of times but as long as Felicity is on the show, she's his main relationship.

[Chaser]

It's Tv land they were always going to break up before they stayed together. It's the nature of the beast. 

[apinknightmare]

I don't mean issues like Oliver possibly cheating on her or anything like that.

 

I didn't think you did - I just really can't recall any instance where Felicity indicated she had any kind of trust issues with him whatsoever. 

[wonderwall]

BRIAN FORD SULLIVAN CONFIRMED A DIGGLE/FELICITY SCENE. THIS IS NOT A DRILL!

 

The only writers I trust to deliver are: Brian Ford Sullivan, Oscar Balderrama, Ben Sokolowski, Emilio Ortega, and now Wendy Mericle (episode 409 redeemed her).

[AyChihuahua]

I didn't think you did - I just really can't recall any instance where Felicity indicated she had any kind of trust issues with him whatsoever. 

She was obviously not thrilled about the LOA stuff, but that was framed more as her being mad about his suicide plan. IIRC, Digg was more angry about being cut out of the plan.

 

I would probably not use Meredith and Derek, since he is now dead and all. I'd probably go more Logan/Veronica or maybe Sydney/Vaughn. IRL SOME couples would get past a lie of that magnitude, some wouldn't. The fact that lying and running is his default would be the overarching problem, with the BM lies the final straw. But that's just not going to happen on this show, unless EBR buys her way out of her contract. I mean hey, I hate all this shit with a violent passion, but it's not going to end them permanently. 

[catrox14]

I didn't think you did - I just really can't recall any instance where Felicity indicated she had any kind of trust issues with him whatsoever. 

 

I guess when she said she didn't want to be a woman he loved that was a big sign of not trusting him, and IMO with a good reason. I'm not wanking or anything.  I feel like Felicity has had legitimate reasons for walking away from Oliver because she didn't trust him on whatever level. 

 

It feels like if she walks away from him again because of another pretty big sin of omission on his part, and then comes back or let's him back again....it damages her more. And Oliver is just a big dick again for lying and if he lies about this what else has he lied about? 

 

It just feels....like they can't break up now, not really.  Let them have some space but I don't want to see either one of them flat out say, "We're done" you know? Because I feel like that can't be fixed in a satisfying way. 

 

Bah, I'm not articulating my worry very well. LOL

[tv echo]

I'm kind of becoming worried about Olicity ending permanently :(

 

I honestly feel like if the show  breaks up Olicity due to Felicity having enough of Oliver's lies and sins of omissions, I can't see how they can ever really get back together without Felicity looking like a total pushover. And I can't think of what possible thing  Oliver could  do to get her to trust him again once the feeling of betrayal becomes settled in a person it's really difficult to trust again.

 

Talk me out of my negativity, Arrowites....:/

 

Hey, comics GA cheated on comics BC repeatedly, but they have a great love story because he always returned to her and she always forgave him - a prime example of a healthy couple's relationship...

http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/138159440216/laurel-is-ollies-true-love-its-so-annoying-when

 

ETA: I'm being sarcastic, in case it wasn't clear.

Edited January 27, 2016 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

I love the fact that the Anon's followups are basically that Oliver and Laurel will hook up behind Felicity's back. So you're making LAUREL, whom you apparently love, into a cheater, too? Wow.

[tv echo]

Per MG's tweet, the Billy Joel song for 411 is "The Stranger".  I looked at the song lyrics and don't understand how this song would fit what I know of 411 (puzzled)...

 

Well, we all have a face
That we hide away forever
And we take them out
And show ourselves when everyone has gone
Some are satin, some are steel
Some are silk and some are leather
They're the faces of a stranger
But we'd love to try them on

 

Well, we all fall in love
But we disregard the danger
Though we share so many secrets
There are some we never tell
Why were you so surprised
That you never saw the stranger
Did you ever let your lover
See the stranger in yourself

 

Don't be afraid to try again
Everyone goes south every now and then
You've done it
Why can't someone else
You should know by now
You've been there yourself

 

Once I used to believe
I was such a great romancer
Then I came home to a woman
That I could not recognize
When I pressed her for a reason
She refused to even answer
It was then I felt the stranger
Kick me right between the eyes

 

Well, we all fall in love
But we disregard the danger
Though we share so many secrets
There are some we never tell
Why were you so surprised
That you never saw the stranger
Did you ever let your lover
See the stranger in yourself

 

Don't be afraid to try again
Everyone goes south every now and then
You've done it
Why can't someone else
You should know by now
You've been there yourself

 

You may never understand
How the stranger is inspired
But he isn't always evil
And he is not always wrong
Though you drown in good intentions
You will never quench the fire
You'll give in to your desire
When the stranger comes along

Edited January 27, 2016 by tv echo

[nksarmi]

They are going to get back together - it's only a question of rather or not it will be completely eye-rolling crap (I still think she forgave him way too easily last season) or something that involves actual character development and makes the relationship stronger. But it also kind of depends on WHY the break up happens.  I mean, I'm still not sure how they are going to resolve this kid plotline without making Oliver look like a total asshole.  Let's speculate:

 

1. Kid finds out that Oliver is his dad and Oliver and BM come to agreement where Oliver gets to come to Center City every now and then to visit.  Keeps kid off show - makes Oliver look like an absentee dad.  Confuses the kid.

 

2. Kid finds out Oliver is his dad and BM agrees to regular visits with Oliver (in Starling) that happen entirely off camera?  Ok - that will probably never work within the show's continuity and will almost certainly mean we will see the kid exposed to Oliver/GA's enemies every season hereafter.

 

3. Kid doesn't find out Oliver is his dad and Oliver and BM agree that Oliver will never see them again.  Oliver comes off looking really bad even if it's BM's choice.

 

And how is Felicity - who never knew her father - going to accept all of this in an in-character way?  I guess she could have some experience with her father that would led her to supporting Oliver's decision to stay away from the kid, but then what does that mean for her feelings about rather or not she and Oliver will have children?  I mean this just leads to so many unfun - and definitely NOT light - questions.  I wonder if they really thought out the ramifications of this plot or if they just said, "oh let's give Oliver a kid!"

Edited January 27, 2016 by nksarmi

[statsgirl]

These lines seem to be to Oliver about Felicity  (but I was really burned by This Is Your Sword last season which seemed to have zero connection with the lyrics:

Once I used to believe
I was such a great romancer
Then I came home to a woman
That I could not recognize
When I pressed her for a reason
She refused to even answer
It was then I felt the stranger
Kick me right between the eyes

-

Did you ever let your lover
See the stranger in yourself

Don't be afraid to try again

Everyone goes south every now and then
You've done it
Why can't someone else
You should know by now
You've been there yourself

 

I would probably not use Meredith and Derek, since he is now dead and all. I'd probably go more Logan/Veronica or maybe Sydney/Vaughn.

Derek is dead because of Behind The Scenes stuff but they were a supercouple for decade. 

If there hadn't been a crowdfunded VM movie, Logan and Veronica would still be apart.

 

And how is Felicity - who never knew her father - going to accept all of this in an in-character way?  I guess she could have some experience with her father that would led her to supporting Oliver's decision to stay away from the kid, but then what does that mean for her feelings about rather or not she and Oliver will have children?  I mean this just leads to so many unfun - and definitely NOT light - questions.  I wonder if they really thought out the ramifications of this plot or if they just said, "oh let's give Oliver a kid!"

Of course they didn't think out the ramifications-- this is Arrow.

 

I could see Felicity deciding that Oliver was right to keep away from the kid after she meets her villain father, but that's going to happen before she finds out about The Lie.

Edited January 27, 2016 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

Per MG's tweet, the Billy Joel song for 411 is "The Stranger".  I looked at the song lyrics and don't understand how this song would fit what I know of 411 (puzzled)...

I actually just listened to Billy talking about The Stranger on his (temp) Sirius XM channel. 

 

The song has two possible meanings.  One is that it's about how we really don't know the people we love as much as we think and there's always something about them that we might not see.  The other meaning is more internal, about how we don't really know ourselves.

 

That being said, when MG gives Billy Joel songs, he's not giving the lyrics he's giving the titles.  In this case both the meaning and title of the song actually works, when you think of the Andy/Diggle and Felicity/Goth Felicity stuff

[apinknightmare]

 

I mean, I'm still not sure how they are going to resolve this kid plotline without making Oliver look like a total asshole.

 

They way they wrote the storyline, there's no believable way to resolve it unless Samantha and the kid take off. Because she keeps such tabs on him, it's straight-up unbelievable that she would even want Oliver anywhere near the kid after he got shot at on the beach, then outed the guy who did it, then got shot at again in an incident where his fiancee was paralyzed. Then, it seems, the kid gets kidnapped, probably just because he's Oliver's son? 

 

After all that, how does Oliver Queen Google Alert Master Samantha even allow Oliver near the kid? Why would Oliver want to risk him like that? All this happening seems like it would make Samantha MORE adamant about her initial stance, and Oliver more reluctant to be involved. I really can't see a believable resolution where they get closer and Oliver's allowed to be the kid's dad (which I'm fine with). Stupid storyline is stupid. 

[dtissagirl]

I've been saying it all along, Witness Protection makes mostly everyone come out of this mess of a storyline smelling like roses. If BM and demon spawn are in WitSec it doesn't matter how much Oliver wants to see them -- he can't. Presto sympathetic Felicity, who feels for Oliver even though she's angry that he felt the need to lie to her about this in the first place.

[Morrigan2575]

Only works if they WANT to get rid of Baby Mama and kid. I'm not convinced that the producers are somehow looking to make this storyline disappear no matter how poorly it was received by fans/media.  I don't think they care, it's not going to hurt them in the long run, they're getting renewed (unless CW goes bye-bye).  

Edited January 27, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

Awww. He was going to buy a house. That makes me sad.

[statsgirl]

Yes, but it fell through on its own, didn't it?

 

Witness protection means that they have William and BM on the shelf in case they want to use them in a future storyline but it's not messy like having them on the show all the time.  Having a kid on the show all the time would be like Cousin Oliver from the Brady Bunch.

[apinknightmare]

Only works if they WANT to get rid of Baby Mama and kid. I'm not convinced that the producers are somehow looking to make this storyline disappear no matter how poorly it was received by fans/media.  I don't think they care, it's not going to hurt them in the long run, they're getting renewed (unless CW goes bye-bye).  

 

They very well could keep the kid around, but if things go the way we're speculating, it won't make a damn bit of sense, and also makes Oliver and Samantha look like the most irresponsible and terrible parents ever. So that's probably what will happen.