Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

I knew we'd all need the dead horse gif. 

[wonderwall]

Edited by mod: "people online" and their hypothetical reaction to a hypothetical plot point is outside the zone of Happy Puppies and is moving towards the zone of Ragey Baby.

Edited January 24, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[apinknightmare]

 

Since I got a few licks in there myself...

Edited January 24, 2016 by apinknightmare

[nksarmi]

We're going in circles now, but I would be a-okay with Oliver quitting the team, or at least arranging a schedule to minimize his presence in the Arrow bunker when Felicity is there. HE'S the one who fucked up, so he's the one who needs to do whatever is best for Felicity. And if what she needs from him is space, then he's gotta scram.

 

Now that's a plot development I could both believe and appreciate coming from Oliver.  I wonder if the writers could handle it that well.

[jay741982]

Edited by mod: Talking about other fans = a bag full of nope.

[dtissagirl]

WHY DO YOU EVEN CARE WHAT RANDOS SAY?!

[wonderwall]

WHY DO YOU EVEN CARE WHAT RANDOS SAY?!

 

LET ME LIVE MY LIFE DAMMIT

[tarotx]

Oliver needs to be present while drama is happening. For Oliver's growth that is what needs to happen. If Felicity leaves-leaves, it's the same as Oliver not being present. It doesn't fit the narrative for the hero. Felicity's journey is important but she's not the star. Her narrative needs to fit his if Oliver is to show change. That sucks sometimes but it's the sacrifice supporting characters have to make. Of course with the reported break after 15 she can take time away and it not visually affect the drama that is happening. But I personally think Ollie-Oliver needs to be present before he deserves nice things. It's why Oliver can't run away with his son nor leave team Arrow. 

 

I get the need for repeated beats from season 3 since they never dealt with what was at the heart of the matter. I personally don't want to see Felicity angry at Oliver. That to me won't work. Oliver can deal with anger. He can suffer people hating him. (The audience not so much). Felicity needs to not yell or get emotional. Felicity needs to either change-lose her light but not in a angry emotional way but in a cold version of herself. Like we need to see Felicity Harden-become more like Moira. Or we need to see her actually move on to a new guy and still be herself. No change-just that Oliver is someone she can't love-love any more. They tried to show both last season and it just didn't work. The limo scene makes me think the first is what will happen. Oliver will have to watch his Felicity lose her light and harden to the cold hard truths of what having Oliver in her life means. I'm probably not explaining this well but Oliver has to try and make that not happen. He has to realize what his lies and secrets have done. And he will have to live with the change within Felicity and work to be what she needs. Even if she never lets herself become the person who believes in Oliver again. 

Edited January 24, 2016 by tarotx

[dtissagirl]

Lol.

Ngl, I think the flash-forwards this season is a direct response to Tumblr asks and tweets sent to Guggie. He realized this fucking fandom cares more about rando reaction, and picking sides, and defense squads, even more than anything that's going on the actual show, so he's mindfucking with people. Because they'll fall for it.

Which they are.

So it's basically our own damn fault.

[AyChihuahua]

WHY DO YOU EVEN CARE WHAT RANDOS SAY?!

Depending on my mood, sometimes I really enjoy arguing. 

 

Not so much today, because I'm just tired of it all, but definitely sometimes.

I get the need for repeated beats from season 3 since they never dealt with what was at the heart of the matter. I personally don't want to see Felicity angry at Oliver. That to me won't work. Oliver can deal with anger. He can suffer people hating him. (The audience not so much). Felicity needs to not yell or get emotional. Felicity needs to either change-lose her light but not in a angry emotional way but in a cold version of herself. Like we need to see Felicity Harden-become more like Moira. Or we need to see her actually move on to a new guy and still be herself. No change-just that Oliver is someone she can't love-love any more. They tried to show both last season and it just didn't work. The limo scene makes me think the first is what will happen. Oliver will have to watch his Felicity lose her light and harden to the cold hard truths of what having Oliver in her life means. I'm probably not explaining this well but Oliver has to try and make that not happen. He has to realize what his lies and secrets have done. And he will have to live with the change within Felicity and work to be what she needs. Even if she never lets herself become the person who believes in Oliver again. 

I totally disagree that she can't be emotional about it. Don't have a huge preference re whether she shows anger or not, but at least for the breakup she should definitely be allowed to be emotional. She can get cold after that (although we ALREADY SAW THAT LAST SEASON GOD THIS SHOW MAKES ME TIRED). 

 

I'm at least 99% sure she won't move on to another guy, at least not this season. I mean, who would it even be?

[tarotx]

When you care about a character, hearing others attack them is very unpleasant. Especially when you personally believe that the issue is being taken wrong or it was done for no other reason than plot.

WHY DO YOU EVEN CARE WHAT RANDOS SAY?!

[AyChihuahua]

If you want to be technical about it, everyone on this board is a rando on the internet. I know one poster's real name bc we have PM chats. And I care about what some people here think...not so much what they think of me, but their opinions and thoughts about the show. Sometimes people here are very insightful.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

WHY DO YOU EVEN CARE WHAT RANDOS SAY?!

If I could, I would take this post out for a nice steak dinner, followed by some R rated activities in a fancy hotel.

You guys have been really good about not discussing fandom and Internet reactions. Please stay strong in the face of temptation.

[tarotx]

I knew I wasn't explaining well. Felicity emotional as she breaks up with Oliver is something I want. Oliver needs to see how he hurt her. I also want to see her show emotional moments for herself-when she's with a friend or with her mom. She needs that for herself. I just think that Oliver needs to be witness to what lies and secrets do. And imo Felicity changing or he completely loses her is the only way that will have huge impact. I think last season if Ray was a better character that could have really worked but that won't work this season. Oliver needs to watch himself lose what Felicity means so that he understand what having a true partner means. And I'm actually to the point that he has to make this work with Felicity. They have already put a lot of work into the relationship. If Felicity isn't the one to get the adult Oliver all this angst seems so mean. And I don't mean Olicity has to be endgame but that Oliver has to completely show he has become adult Oliver. This to me is the last chance for him. 

Depending on my mood, sometimes I really enjoy arguing. 

 

Not so much today, because I'm just tired of it all, but definitely sometimes.

I totally disagree that she can't be emotional about it. Don't have a huge preference re whether she shows anger or not, but at least for the breakup she should definitely be allowed to be emotional. She can get cold after that (although we ALREADY SAW THAT LAST SEASON GOD THIS SHOW MAKES ME TIRED). 

 

I'm at least 99% sure she won't move on to another guy, at least not this season. I mean, who would it even be?

Edited January 25, 2016 by tarotx

[Sarah-Lane]

Ok regarding whose missions/team this is.... I agree that it's Felicity's as much as Oliver's, but that's not the way a lot of fans seem to think.  And they definitely didn't think that way when Thea and Laurel would look at Diggle to see if he backed Oliver's calls at the beginning of this season.  I saw tons of complaints about if they want Oliver back - they need to follow his orders, etc...

But Thea and Laurel looking to Diggle for confirmation on all of Oliver's calls has nothing to do with anybody's individual mission, especially not Felicity's. It's has to do with Team Politics and who they want to lead them but it has virtually no bearing on how they got there, why they're there and the reasons they continue to stay on the team.

 

Also I don't think it really matters what the fans think about this kind of stuff. I mean, I don't think the writers care. In my experience of watching this show, these writers have a specific vision or viewpoint and it seems like they don't really care whether it comes across that way, they're gonna run with it anyway. Look at 95% of Laurel's storylines. They never come across the way the writers want them to but they are still clinging to this idea that Laurel knows Oliver "in his bones" and they were "best friends" since childhood. Never mind the fact that they've never shown us evidence of that (in fact they've been showing us the opposite for 3+ years) or that 90% of the audience never bought that crap and never will, it's still something they try to sell as a "fact" in the show (as recent as 4x05) whether we agree or not. Whether it makes sense or not.

 

So if the show has told us that Felicity's mission is as important as Oliver's then that's the idea they're going with whether the audience believes it or not.

[Genki]

Seems to me that there is a serious case of "be careful what you wish" for going on with Arrow. Probably a fair bit of mind-fuckery going on with the EPs.

 

We want more Felicity and boy are we going to get it!! For Felicity to be the Leading Lady TIIC will want to maximise DRAMA, and that is what Felicity is getting.

 

Even though the spoilers seem grim-dark for Felicity and Olicity I'm much more interested in the next block of episodes than this time last season when I extend the hiatus by 5 episodes during the "rise of Because Comics" and what I thought was Ray Palmer prop duty (little did I know the worst was yet to come).

 

We know that the next few episodes will feature Diggle and Felicity, Roy will be back and if the break up occurs in 4.15, then there is timing for reconciliation (probably by 4.20). Felicity's code name will be revealed as well as more of Felicity's father. The flash forward shenanigans are basically taking Felicity off the table for "who's in the grave speculation" (which I knew was not her but appreciate it being explicitly shown) and redirects a chunk of the fandom's attention to "where is the ring?". I also give the fandom a safety net in the sense that even if it get very very dark for Felicity and Oliver, they will make it out this season alive. 

 

BMD & likely Break-up is unfortunate but I doubt it will lead to Oliver hooking up with anyone except for Poppy in flashback.

 

I really don't want a BoP style episode but I suspect that the EPs can't resist now that Felicity is Oracle-lite and if they are setting up for Laurel in the grave, fly pretty bird fly.

[Belinea]

Never mind the fact that they've never shown us evidence of that (in fact they've been showing us the opposite for 3+ years) or that 90% of the audience never bought that crap and never will, it's still something they try to sell as a "fact" in the show.

.

But luckily MG enjoys explaining a storyline afterwards. He'll tell you what you are supposed to see which is the true form of telling an epic story ;-)

Edited January 24, 2016 by Belinea

[EmilyBettFan]

...how about no?*

Anyway, what's hilarious(not) though, it's that you just know Felicity will be the bad guy, no matter what. Oh look, after all he's done for her, he's been close to her and helped her and all, and she dumps him for one little lie that he had no choice but to tell.

We can do this.

*I am referring to @EmilyBettFan idea :)

hahah I know. I'm just venting with this stupid baby mama drama storyline.

The funny thing is anabanahops on Twitter follows me and she still hasn't unfollowed even though I trash this storyline almost daily. I'm guessing she doesn't care for it either and she just looks at it like a job.

[Sarah-Lane]

Felicity emotional as she breaks up with Oliver is something I want. Oliver needs to see how he hurt her. I also want to see her show emotional moments for herself-when she's with a friend or with her mom. She needs that for herself. I just think that Oliver needs to be witness to what lies and secrets do.

This. This is exactly what I want too. Oliver's had his head up his ass for far too long regarding how his actions affect others. Funnily enough he's quite conscious of it in anything that doesn't relate to his personal relationships: Dude's always blaming himself for crap that has nothing to do with him but in his own personal relationships where he does mess up he rarely seems to acknowledge his wrongdoings or rather, he rarely ever takes resposibility in his emotional relationships the way he does with Arrow issues.

I need to see Oliver fully understand why Felicity is breaking up with him. I don't need him to blame himself but I do need him to take responsibility.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Sarah-Lane

[calliope1975]

Mostly, I don't want Felicity to be separated from TA because a) I experienced that in S3 and b) I saw in the last episode what a Felicity less TA is like, and in both situations, the show became dull and boring.

 

I get drama and angst, but isolating Felicity only ends up punishing me as a viewer. And if we aren't going to get a good break up story, which we mostly likely won't, I'd rather they speed through this plot like they do everything else. 

[EmilyBettFan]

Not only that it decreases the quality of the show. Just like how it decreases when Oliver/SA is sidelined for the other masks to get their screen time fighting the same single villain.

[thegirlsleuth]

It's interesting to read the Stephen Amell quotes about the lie, because my take on what he said is that he had to back them off a full-fledged lie to Felicity, with the omission--which he admitted was still a lie--being a sort of compromise. When everything goes to hell, I would appreciate if they could have Oliver verbalize why he thought keeping secrets from those closest to him was a good idea when the last time he did it ended with Diggle not talking to him for six months and a suicide mission as the only viable plan because otherwise the reason is "because the writers lack creativity and a sense of character."

[AyChihuahua]

It's interesting to read the Stephen Amell quotes about the lie, because my take on what he said is that he had to back them off a full-fledged lie to Felicity, with the omission--which he admitted was still a lie--being a sort of compromise. When everything goes to hell, I would appreciate if they could have Oliver verbalize why he thought keeping secrets from those closest to him was a good idea when the last time he did it ended with Diggle not talking to him for six months and a suicide mission as the only viable plan because otherwise the reason is "because the writers lack creativity and a sense of character."

He said he argued for a lie of omission, which he said would still technically have been a lie, and they met in the middle. So Guggie wanted A, SA wanted C, they went with B. I'm guessing Guggie wanted him to say something like he did in the erased timeline, and SA wanted him to like distract her with kisses or ask about Curtis or something.

 

As far as your last phrase goes, I think that pretty much is the reason. 

 

Being serious, I think they're sticking to him being stuck bw a rock and a hard place. Which he WAS NOT, bc there's no possible way for BM to know if he told Felicity, but whatevs.

Edited January 25, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[TwistedandBored]

Since season 2, Arrow writers have gotten into the habit of screwing with everything they built in the first half of the season all to get that "amazing" season finale they wanted. I wish they could understand a good finale does not always make-up for the clusterfuck that is their second-half of the season. 

 

Also, they better not kill Diggle. 

[wonderwall]

Honestly if they kill Diggle that will make me quit the show completely and I'd only catch the Olicity scenes on youtube. That's it. 

 

I really hope it's Laurel. It makes my blood boil every time she isn't in the pool of characters the show will kill off because of the precious comics. I hate it. The fact that she's rarely ever considered just makes her death even more surprising which is what the writers are looking for. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by wonderwall

[TwistedandBored]

To be honest, since the season started, I was like NO to Felicity or Diggle dying. The rest, I will sort of be fine with it. I mean, I will feel sad if it was Roy or Thea but it will not make me stop watching the show. 

[BkWurm1]

4-15 looms like a bomb with a ticking timer, but I went into this season knowing they were going to insist on blowing up Oliver and Felicity's relationship, not happy but no TV couple is allowed to be together without at least one break up. (Monica and Chandler might be the one exception to the rule). 

 

But 4-15 is still four episodes away.  A month. A month with what very likely will have some great scenes and moments both for them individually and between them because the explosion looming is just about plot and moving pieces of the puzzle around to further plot on down the road.  So while I'm right there with everyone who is REALLY not looking forward to 4-15, I've reached the point where I'm not willing to let the D-bags writing this crap rob me of the current good stuff just because they've made sure I know the clock is ticking.   

 

4-08 hit me so hard with that BM BS  that I haven't been back to that episode thread since the night it aired and I have read EVERY other comment ever made on EVERY other episode, so believe me, I fully appreciate that living in the moment and yeah, currently not letting what is coming ruin what is happening now is not easy or even completely possible but I'm at a place where I feel like I'm letting TIIC win if I don't take the time to enjoy the current storylines as they unfold. 

 

I am looking forward to a lot.  Roy, her dad, her mom, just Felicity figuring out Felicity.  I want this stuff and yeah, I know the Mad Bomber is still out there but he's not here yet.  I'm determined to leave my Olicity anger/grief spiral to AFTER the shrapnel starts raining down.   I know myself well enough to know I'll still be speculating on what's to come aka worst case scenarios but I think we really have some good stuff to look forward to. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by BkWurm1

[tangerine95]

I'm not happy about the BM drama but I'm kind of over being annoyed about it.It will be used for a break up and they'll be back together before the end of the season and hopefully we won't have to deal with the kid much anymore.

Thats the one thing I'm not excited about.I even kind of want to see what they do with the wheelchair storyline especially next episode with the halucination.Also her dad and all the focus she'll be getting in the next few episodes.I'm just really happy we're getting Felicity and Diggle centric episodes after the midseason.Whatever they do will be so much better then the Lance family drama in the middle of season 2 or the BC arc in season 3.

Also feel pretty confident that in the grave is one of the Lance's and every episodes makes me think its Laurel even more.I'm pretty sure its not Diggle so everyone I care about is safe imo.

Edited January 25, 2016 by tangerine95

[wonderwall]

You know what, thinking about it... It seems that BOTH Oliver/Felicity will be hit really hard by this death. So much so, that they're both teetering on the edge of darkness by wanting to kill that son of a bitch who killed X. 

 

The only person I can see bringing them back from that brink is Diggle for both Oliver/Felicity, and Thea for Oliver. I can't imagine Laurel ever bringing either of them back from the edge considering how little Oliver/Felicity actually listen to Laurel. 

 

It would be interesting next season to see TA trying to function while 2 members are out for blood. It'd give us more OTA scenes, and it could bring up a lot of moral issues. But this will ONLY work if the moral compass isn't Laurel because you SAW how terrible she was at being it in 410. She has no leg to stand on and no one liked her being the moral compass of the show because it makes no sense. 

[nksarmi]

This. This is exactly what I want too. Oliver's had his head up his ass for far too long regarding how his actions affect others. Funnily enough he's quite conscious of it in anything that doesn't relate to his personal relationships: Dude's always blaming himself for crap that has nothing to do with him but in his own personal relationships where he does mess up he rarely seems to acknowledge his wrongdoings or rather, he rarely ever takes resposibility in his emotional relationships the way he does with Arrow issues.

 

I need to see Oliver fully understand why Felicity is breaking up with him and I don't need him to blame himself but I need him to take responsibility.

 

I get that his emotional state

 

Oh my word - Oliver blames himself for thing that are not even his fault!  But when he actually DOES something bad - very bad, he doesn't seem to get it.  Like he blames himself for Robert's death.  Um no, that would be Malcolm.  He blames himself for Thea turning Malcolm over to Ra's and doesn't want her to know what it's like to kill her "father."  Um no, first it's Malcolm's fault and second, he isn't her father!!!!! And you know, so on.....

 

But have Oliver actually do something really, really bad like lie to his best friend/brother in arms and the woman he loves because he can't trust them to keep the secret that he is going undercover and he never showed me that he actually understood how BAD of a F#$@ Up that was.  He apologized, but I got every sense that he would do it again if he had to do it over again. 

 

So of course he lies to Felicity and doesn't trust her this season.  Ugh, ugh, ugh.

 

What I want to know is why do we have to have this plot?  Why isn't Felicity's paralysis, Oliver's unknown son, Felicity's evil father, Darhk/HIVE, and the pending death enough angst for them?  Why can't they face it together - even if they are strained at times?  Why did he have to lie to her leading to a breakup?  Why isn't all the other crap just enough? 

 

I thought they said they were going lighter this season?  I like Supergirl and Flash well enough and I am really hopeful about LoT.  If Arrow is going to continue to be this dreadful - I might just be done.

[Chaser]

Actually read an interesting theory about Oliver/Felicity and the death. The theory went that the 'him' is Anarky. That Laurel getting between him and Thea could be foreshadowing. Laurel dies saving Thea. Laurel was put in Anarkys crosshairs by having him arrested, which only happened because of Olivers actions. It would explain why they are so aggressive about going after him.

Sigh. Grave spec would be much more fun if the show runners would confirm they know who is in the ground.

[apinknightmare]

Do we know for sure that DD is the one Laurel tries to prosecute? I can't remember if that spoiler used his name, or if it just referred to a "villain."

[AyChihuahua]

Still think there's close to zero chance that it's Laurel. All the foreshadowing is meaningless, bc they're intentionally misleading us. Actually, I still think it's Quentin.

 

Do think the "him" is someone other than DD, though. I said awhile ago that it would be weird for Oliver to say that, when he'd already obviously be planning to kill DD. I think it's MM. 

[tangerine95]

I always think its between DD or Malcolm for who is the killer.Anarky just doesn't seem like that big of a villain but its possible.Lately I'm leaning more towards it being Malcolm.

I fully believe they know who's in the grave and have known since the start.Maybe they had a back up option but i think they knew from the start.

[Morrigan2575]

I go back and forth between Malcolm and DD.

[Sarah-Lane]

That's an interesting theory even if it sounds pretty unimaginative, its probably the best these writers can come up with.

I don't even need them to confirm they know who's in the grave, I KNOW they know. They can't not know! The idea of them not knowing is just ridiculous to me! You can't be a professional TV writer (or any kind of pro writer) and just wing it through a season or a book. Nope. That doesn't happen. Even fanfic writers know they need to plan things out if they want the story to turn out half way decent.
They definitely know who's in the grave and have done probably since they came up with the story back when they were finishing writing season 3 or you know, when they were notified someone's contract was up or had been changed. They're just saying they don't know so people stop asking them who it is!

Edited January 25, 2016 by Sarah-Lane

[Chaser]

Do we know for sure that DD is the one Laurel tries to prosecute? I can't remember if that spoiler used his name, or if it just referred to a "villain."

They did use DDs name. But I just noticed that they never said prosecute. They are clearly referencing her legal position but just say that it throws a wrench in his plans. She may just be going after his businesses to kneecap him.

[Sarah-Lane]

Still think there's close to zero chance that it's Laurel. All the foreshadowing is meaningless, bc they're intentionally misleading us. Actually, I still think it's Quentin.

This is a good point that I hadn't thought of until now. They were deliberately misleading us with Felicity, I think there's a good chance they're dileberately misleading us with Laurel too.

Ah crap. Now I'm back to square one.

Tbh I don't really care who dies tho as long as its not Diggle. Although I will be a little pissed if they kill off Thea over Laurel. Thea's stoy has been executed better an is all round a hell of a lot more interesting than Laurels.

[EmilyBettFan]

At the panel it seemed like SA knows who dies. Or at least that's what I think.

[tangerine95]

I think they'll give clues for everyone dying.They did it with Felicity the most and now that she's off the list they'll probably move on to Diggle since he's the other fan favorite.I'm sure everyone will get moments like that.I mean just in that promo for the next few episodes they try to make it seem like it could be Thea or Lyla too.The limo flash forward suddenly has people thinking its Donna.

But some of that has to be the actual death set up and imo so far it seems like its Laurel.

[tarotx]

Actually read an interesting theory about Oliver/Felicity and the death. The theory went that the 'him' is Anarky. That Laurel getting between him and Thea could be foreshadowing. Laurel dies saving Thea. Laurel was put in Anarkys crosshairs by having him arrested, which only happened because of Olivers actions. It would explain why they are so aggressive about going after him.

Sigh. Grave spec would be much more fun if the show runners would confirm they know who is in the ground.

I think this is the closest you will get to them admitting they know who is in the grave.

 

TVLINE | As hinted, we got a new flash-forward. Now, I know you didn’t know at the beginning of the season, but do you know now who’s in the grave?

Wendy Mericle: I would say that we have a pretty good idea, but that episode is not written yet. We always leave things open to change, but yeah. I think we have a pretty good idea.

http://tvline.com/2016/01/20/arrow-season-4-oliver-felicity-break-up-flash-forward/

 

I actually have been thinking about Anarky because all a long tptb have describe him as a villain Oliver and Thea have created. What's the point of having him get created if not to used him in a bigger role.   

Edited January 25, 2016 by tarotx

[Morrigan2575]

At the panel it seemed like SA knows who dies. Or at least that's what I think.

Could you expand?

They did use DDs name. But I just noticed that they never said prosecute. They are clearly referencing her legal position but just say that it throws a wrench in his plans. She may just be going after his businesses to kneecap him.

Good point we all went to prosecute but she could seize property, free bank accounts etc

Edited January 25, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[nksarmi]

I actually thought that Anarky would explain Felicity rage no matter who was in the grave - because he let Anarky go because he wanted to get to Darhk because Darhk hurt her.  But my problem is that it seems to me if Anarky killed anyone after Oliver broke him out of police custody - that Oliver would say it was his fault - because yea, it kind of is.

 

But that would follow the pattern of Oliver blaming himself for things that aren't his fault while he remain oblivious about things he actually does wrong.

 

I don't know - they really played that scene like it was really personal for Felicity.  It could be BS, but I still think that makes some candidates more likely than others. For me, I'd say Donna, Diggle, and even Lance are top candidates (Felicity could be angry that her mom is hurting) with Thea and Laurel being lower on the list now.

Edited January 25, 2016 by nksarmi

[foreverevolving]

Again I have to wonder if the person in the grave is actually Curtis?

I can see Felicity being upset about him dying since it seems they are becoming closer and closer as time goes by, and I can see Oliver feeling it may have been responsibility if maybe by being an inspiration for Curtis to want to suit up too.. and that caused his death. So Oliver would feel responsible rather than guilty...

 

It actually goes back to what Lance said in the first episode about Oliver inspiring all those masks (I can't find the video right now to see what he said exactly)

Edited January 25, 2016 by foreverevolving

[AyChihuahua]

Felicity and Lance were close-ish in S2, and he's dating her mom. I easily think they can spin it that she's that upset about it, especially if Malcolm killed him, because she hates Malcolm anyway. Plus, she'd want to make clear to Oliver that there's no more bullshit "I can't kill him for [idiotic dumbass plotty] REAZONZ!!!" He's let Malcolm off the hook a ton, so I can see her going all Bratva wife to emphasize that ain't happening this time.

 

I won't be a bit sad, bc I still hate Quentin for the S3 manhunt. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[thegirlsleuth]

I think we might be discounting what the writers assume we know is happening offscreen: that Felicity and Laurel (or Thea) are good friends. They do spend every day in the lair together, so just because they don't show Felicity and Laurel going out for Indian food doesn't mean it doesn't happen and Felicity did go to Laurel in tears after leaving Oliver in Nanda Parbat, seeking comfort. They showed us Laurel being a good friend to Felicity and visiting her in the hospital several times, and I could imagine of she was killed that Felicity would be as distraught as she was in that limo and calling for vengeance.

[Chaser]

Tumblr write up about Felicitys Hallucination scene. He was asked about that those tweets regarding the hi tech scene. He basically confirmed it was hallucination scene. Apparently how they shot it was really cool.

The tumblr is fanmommer. I can't link here, but if someone else can that would be great.

[wonderwall]

Helping @chaser out here:

 

So, bottom line, I had heard that someone had to fill in for the director of 4x11 and direct the hallucination scene. I’d heard the scene was really cool. I told Stephen this. And he just….lit up. He started talking super animatedly about the scene, and how Emily had to work both parts and then play off a stand-in actor and how “fucking awesome” the whole thing was, and it was just really, really cool. He said he had seen the final product and there are these long shots, not just close ups of each “Felicity” one at a time but long shots of both in the scene at once and it was really amazing. He went on for a good couple mins just RAVING about how great this scene is.

http://fanmommer.tumblr.com/post/137992953474/felicitys-hallucination-scene-a-follow-up

Edited January 25, 2016 by wonderwall

[Sunshine]

In a CBR 01/20/16 interview (pg 29 Spoilers Thread), Mericle mentions wanting to explore Curtis Holt & Lonnie Machin's characters more in further (?) seasons depending on actor availability.  If I assume that means future seasons, I think that eliminates Anarky from the "him" column and Curtis Holt from the "grave dweller" column.  

 

I still think Malcolm Merlyn is the "him".  I have since the premiere.  Felicity's cold anger only reinforces that for me.  Malcolm's going dark towards the back half of the season.  I am thinking that Nyssa fights him for the right to lead the LOA.  MM gets help from DD but eventually loses.  DD of course expects something in return.  Malcolm may not kill the "grave dweller" directly but his machinations lead to the death which of course puts him at odds with Oliver & Company.  Dark Archer is Oliver Queen's nemesis so I think he will be set up to be the big bad for Season 5 so everything comes full circle.

 

When we saw the FF in the premiere, I figured Quentin was the grave dweller.  I am not so sure anymore.  They keep talking about it being big.  Quentin is lazy and expected.  I guess I don't consider his death big which seems to leave Thea, Diggle or Laurel.  Laurel seems to have the most hanging thread resolutions in the narrative.  Her relationships seem to have been healed - daddy, Oliver, Sarah.  Nyssa sounds like it might be resolved in 4.12.  There was some BTS talk (Speed Weed twitter IIRC around the time 4.14 was being written) about possibly seeing Laurel's flashback photo again.  If Oliver returns it to her in present day (not sure why he would produce it in flashbacks but he could) that would be another thread wrapped up. She is supposed to have fully come into her own as a superhero (per EPs). MMV. IF she was the grave dweller it would certainly be considered big.

 

I hope BM's actual arc was only 2 episodes which means 4.15 would be her last.  I guess it depends on whether they are doing Oliver as dad. I am hoping BMD was a plot device only.  Not sure about that since Brian Ford Sullivan was tweeting about MG and dallies with Samantha and Oliver.  "The feels." I believe is what he actually said.  I don't think we were supposed to see BM as unsympathetic.  I need some info for 4.16-4.20. LOL   Malcolm could also be the one who thinks Oliver did the right thing.  The "...Your good looking but not very bright" scene could be that.  Felicity was shot.  Thea's in the hospital.  Oliver might be looking for guidance about William and protecting him.

 

Nyssa comes back in 4.12. Just in time for Ruve's campaign to discover a secret marriage to go along with a secret child at a political debate in 4.14?

[AyChihuahua]

Story-wise, Laurel makes the most sense. Money-wise, cutting her would also likely save more money than anyone else (other than MM, who's obviously not the one in the grave bc then there'd be a party, not a funeral). I think they can easily spin that Felicity would have that reaction to any member of TA, plus Quentin bc of their history and her mom, plus obviously her mom, and probably the spawn. Maybe not BM. So basically, Felicity's reaction doesn't rule out any of the obvious contenders for me, especially if it's MM who did the killing. I still don't think there's any realistic chance it's Laurel. I'd need to see KC get weird on social media to begin to believe it.

 

It seems that SA implied that he knows now. How awkward for him. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by AyChihuahua