Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

I just noticed, is it just me or does Thea look like she's purposely going over that ledge? Like she can't help herself? 

 

Yeah, it did. I'm guessing the bloodlust comes back?

[Lethal Huntress]

I just noticed, is it just me or does Thea look like she's purposely going over that ledge? Like she can't help herself?

I noticed that too. It seems like she is in a trance-like state. Like she is being controlled.

[Tazmania]

They killed Sara Lance in S3 and the whole season was designed about the consequences of that death, for Thea, Oliver, LoA and Laurel. She was resurrected in S4 which basically made the whole S3 pointless. S2 was about Slade's revenge for Shado's death. If Shado was no dead, then the whole S2 was redundant. Why do Arrow writers shit on the stories they write themselves? Masochists much? 

[AyChihuahua]

If Tarotx turns out to be right, and Thea kills Alex while bloodlusting and then tries to kill herself, Tarotx deserves all the kudos, bc he/she is the only person I have ever seen theorize that. It would be kind of a cheat for the writers, to kill someone who doesn't really matter, and also probably fairly repetitive bc Oliver would be fighting to save Thea/her soul AGAIN, but these writers do love repetition.

[Chaser]

If Oliver is in the funeral suit next to Thea's bed, I wonder if they are going to end the death episode on a cliffhanger with multiple lives hanging in the balance. Whatever happens kills one person and leaves Thea in the hospital.

 

I totally forgot about Laurel's Vigilante vs. DA thing. For whatever reason, I thought it would be a logistics thing (How can I balance the two lives?) and not a moral dilemma. Moral dilemma seems kind of pointless as I highly doubt she would decide to leave. And it really seems to be centered on Oliver's actions, which means her problems will go away when Oliver reigns himself in. And I'm just going to skip over the fact that Laurel is a laugh track in this regard.

[Morrigan2575]

I noticed that too. It seems like she is in a trance-like state. Like she is being controlled.

Yeah, it looked like a trance to me as well. Not that she was committing suicide but wasn't in control of her body.

DD magically controlling Thea? Side effect of whatever is going on with Thea's Immunity to DD?

[kismet]

If Tarotx turns out to be right, and Thea kills Alex while bloodlusting and then tries to kill herself, Tarotx deserves all the kudos, bc he/she is the only person I have ever seen theorize that. It would be kind of a cheat for the writers, to kill someone who doesn't really matter, and also probably fairly repetitive bc Oliver would be fighting to save Thea/her soul AGAIN, but these writers do love repetition.

Well I suggested that Alex is in the grave, because honestly if they are not killing LL, I imagine they are gonna cheat the audience and put a minor character in the grave. But having Thea be the one that puts the person in the grave that is a brand new idea... and would it explain why OQ is upset at the grave. He could be sad for Alex, but more sad for his sister having killed somebody. And he still could be going after either DD or MM that put TQ in the situation.

 

But @Tarotx would get credit for figuring out that its Thea killing Alex. :) And the writers do love their repetition and their fine print, so I am expecting this great big death that has been looming over the season will not have big impact on the cast for s5.

[lemotomato]

If Oliver is in the funeral suit next to Thea's bed, I wonder if they are going to end the death episode on a cliffhanger with multiple lives hanging in the balance. Whatever happens kills one person and leaves Thea in the hospital.

I totally forgot about Laurel's Vigilante vs. DA thing. For whatever reason, I thought it would be a logistics thing (How can I balance the two lives?) and not a moral dilemma. Moral dilemma seems kind of pointless as I highly doubt she would decide to leave. And it really seems to be centered on Oliver's actions, which means her problems will go away when Oliver reigns himself in. And I'm just going to skip over the fact that Laurel is a laugh track in this regard.

Typical "That's So Laurel" storyline if her vigilante vs DA conflict isn't even about herself, but about whether *she* thinks Oliver is crossing some line or not. And why the sudden concern? She willingly worked with the Vigilante in season 1 when he was dropping bodies all over the place and she never expressed any qualms about him killing, (unlike Diggle and Felicity.) I guess she only cares when he's not doing questionable things to coerce confessions, seize evidence without a warrant, and leave criminals gift wrapped to help her with her cases.

Re: the trailer-- still not enough Diggle. Thea's in the hospital so much they might as well reserve the room for her (that'll make 3 times in less than a year, going back to 320). Ugh, more LoA stuff. Why is BC smirking again, is that her thing now? Yay for Tatsu coming back. Roy in the red suit... is it made of the same magical material that allowed Diggle to fit into the Arrow suit? Because I don't see how he could fit into anything that's worn by Thea. And was Poppy in the trailer at all?

I'm just going to set my expectations low and remind myself that no matter what happens in the next 5 episodes, they can't be worse than season 3.

Edited January 19, 2016 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

Typical "That's So Laurel" storyline if her vigilante vs DA conflict isn't even about herself, but about whether *she* thinks Oliver is crossing some line or not. And why the sudden concern? She willingly worked with the Vigilante in season 1 when he was dropping bodies all over the place and she never expressed any qualms about him killing, (unlike Diggle and Felicity.) I guess she only cares when he's not doing questionable things to coerce confessions, seize evidence without a warrant, and leave criminals gift wrapped to help her with her cases.

So basically when it doesn’t benefit her? LOL

[Guest]

Aside from goth Felicity, I think my favourite part of that whole trailer was the flash of Lyla's face where she has a gun pointed at her head. She looks so unimpressed. She's like 'go ahead, I can do this all day, fool!' LOL. 

 

No but seriously, who was that pointing a gun at her? Was it Andy? I couldn't tell.

[DeadZeus]

I loved the Mid season trailer. 1 HUGE thing that pissed me the hell of....

I can see DD catching Olivers Arrow AGAIN and throwing it back at him. It seemed to be in the same setting as the blood debts trailer fight between them.

Oliver making the same mistake 3 times? I hope this trailer is deceiving me... Because i do not want to see Oliver get his ass kicked by DD again. Specially when Malcolm got a really nice shot in.

Edited January 20, 2016 by DeadZeus

[apinknightmare]

Aside from goth Felicity, I think my favourite part of that whole trailer was the flash of Lyla's face where she has a gun pointed at her head. She looks so unimpressed. She's like 'go ahead, I can do this all day, fool!' LOL. 

 

No but seriously, who was that pointing a gun at her? Was it Andy? I couldn't tell.

It's not Andy. I've never seen this dude before.

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks for the screen cap. I know a few people who thought it might be Alex.

ETA: watching the trailer again.

Looks like Baron Reiter is shot by Shado or her sister on the Island. What I don't understand is how is she wearing Yao Fei's hood? Didn't Oliver have it in Coast City?

Edited January 20, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

Hmm. Definitely not Andy. Must be someone from HIVE, although I wonder if this is gonna open up into the whole Shadowspire thing. 

[apinknightmare]

Looks like Baron Reiter is shot by Shado or her sister on the Island. What I don't understand is how is she wearing Yao Fei's hood? Didn't Oliver have it in Coast City?

 

He did. 

[Morrigan2575]

I'm assuming it's the Shadowspire guy that both Andy/Diggle have a history with, from the 411 episode description.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[chaos is welcome]

Thanks for the screen cap. I know a few people who thought it might be Alex.

ETA: watching the trailer again.

Looks like Baron Reiter is shot by Shado or her sister on the Island. What I don't understand is how is she wearing Yao Fei's hood? Didn't Oliver have it in Coast City?

Hallucination? Almost has to be, right?

[kismet]

Maybe OQ samples the island drugs (either willingly or by force) and begins to hallucinate Shado. He could think Poppy is Shado which could be how he manages to sleep with Poppy. And then perhaps it is Poppy that shoots whoever, but in OQ's mind (which is what the audience sees) it is Shado.

 

I'm gonna wager that the Flashback episode is Hallucination heavy, because that is the only way they could make it interesting by bringing in some quality characters to break through the white noise even if they had to cheat to do it.

[HighHopes]

 

New BTS of EBR. Looks like she still has the ring on in episode 15/16 which is what they're currently shooting I think?

(From the BTS thread)

 

I am really hoping that Felicity doesn't stay engaged to the guy who has been lying to her for 3+ months about a secret kid. Also it is kinda strange that there is no ramp for Felicity in the lair. Wonder why.. 

[Morrigan2575]

Maybe OQ samples the island drugs (either willingly or by force) and begins to hallucinate Shado. He could think Poppy is Shado which could be how he manages to sleep with Poppy. And then perhaps it is Poppy that shoots whoever, but in OQ's mind (which is what the audience sees) it is Shado.

I'm gonna wager that the Flashback episode is Hallucination heavy, because that is the only way they could make it interesting by bringing in some quality characters to break through the white noise even if they had to cheat to do it.

Oh god that's totally awful and you're probably 100% right.

Hell, that would even get them their Shado raped Oliver story from the comics...

Ugh

[Guest]

I liked Shado but I really don't need to keep seeing her tbh. I feel like we're just repeating the same old tired ground. 

 

 

I'm assuming it's the Shadowspire guy that both Andy/Diggle have a history with, from the 411 episode description.

 

I'm also guessing that whatever Baron Reiter is looking for on the island is probably what DD already has in that magical box thing of his. I definitely think this is how the past/present is going to connect.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Guest

[jay741982]

(From the BTS thread)

 

I am really hoping that Felicity doesn't stay engaged to the guy who has been lying to her for 3+ months about a secret kid. Also it is kinda strange that there is no ramp for Felicity in the lair. Wonder why..

She finds out in Episode 15 maybe? Or she tells him she needs time but still keeps the ring on?

[AyChihuahua]

Or it's an old pic.

[Primal Slayer]

Ugh, more LoA stuff. Why is BC smirking again, is that her thing now? 

Good thing she isn't smirking.

 

It was a good trailer for the most part. It's annoying that they are keeping up Felicity's possible death, lord knows I can't wait till that ends and this whole grave storyline ends. Basically everyone else got something to do in the trailer which was good. Laurel got some decent trailer time that looks like it will amount to good screen time. Roy/Nyssa/Katana are back, glad that means I no longer have to see the whole "SSquad stole all the characters" anymore. It is funny that Roy suits up again in the same exact suit that he gave to Thea, never stop being lazy show. 

[SleepDeprived]

Was the shot of Katana and Nyssa fighting, the move that Nyssa takes in 4x12? She seeks out Tatsu and trains with her/tries to convince her to help take the LOA away from Malcolm? Does she know Tatsu?

 

Also, is that Roy beating up/fighting with Curtis at PT? Did Calculator send Roy to steal something from PT?

 

Yeah, it looked like a trance to me as well. Not that she was committing suicide but wasn't in control of her body.

DD magically controlling Thea? Side effect of whatever is going on with Thea's Immunity to DD?

 

That would be my thought, too. Maybe the consequence of using Thea's bloodlust against Darhk will present itself as Thea either becoming easily controllable by the powers Darhk is using (not necessarily by Darhk himself but whatever the voodoo is instead of the bloodlust controlling her) or becoming severely weakened when Darhk's evil powers totally overtakes her, hence the fainting. Maybe that's part of the moral consequences Oliver (and Thea) need to take into consideration--if they use Thea, they risk her/her health.

 

Maybe OQ samples the island drugs (either willingly or by force) and begins to hallucinate Shado. He could think Poppy is Shado which could be how he manages to sleep with Poppy. And then perhaps it is Poppy that shoots whoever, but in OQ's mind (which is what the audience sees) it is Shado.

 

That would make Poppy both a master diver and a master archer. Because, of course, she is.

 

I'm leaning towards thinking that's not a hallucination, though. It kinda looks like Reiter is killed by the arrow/hit in the chest while Oliver is strung-up in chains behind him. I think it's actually Shado's twin or, if we're really doing voodoo and bringing everyone back to life this season, the real Shado. What are the chances that Amanda Waller recruited Shado/Shado's twin and sent her to help Oliver back at Lian Yu? And that's how she got ahold of Yao Fei's hood again (Waller found the hood in Coast City)?

[kismet]

I want it to be with a hallucination of Shado or Shado back from the dead via Voodoo/magic. I really hope it is not Mei, because that would be too convenient even by Arrow standards. And I have to believe that the world is not that small.

[Mrs. de Winter]

So if Felicity is hallucinating do we have any idea why (I didn't see anything, but perhaps I missed it)?  The implication seemed to be that it was for more than one episode from the autograph guy.  There doesn’t seem to be any head injury from the preview.  So if she is not just hallucinating while in surgery, why would she be hallucinating at all?  Is it possible DD does something to her while she is in the hospital so that she is under his control (and this is a side effect)?   Is it a result of whatever high tech thing goes on in 4-11?  A side effect of “dying” since she already died in one reality (are their side effects from what Barry did)?   Plot device with no logical reason for being? 

[apinknightmare]

I think maybe it's a side-effect from injecting herself with some kind of something from Palmer Tech to help repair her spine.

/totally off-the-wall theory

[wonderwall]

So if Felicity is hallucinating do we have any idea why (I didn't see anything, but perhaps I missed it)?  The implication seemed to be that it was for more than one episode from the autograph guy.  There doesn’t seem to be any head injury from the preview.  So if she is not just hallucinating while in surgery, why would she be hallucinating at all?  Is it possible DD does something to her while she is in the hospital so that she is under his control (and this is a side effect)?   Is it a result of whatever high tech thing goes on in 4-11?  A side effect of “dying” since she already died in one reality (are their side effects from what Barry did)?   Plot device with no logical reason for being? 

 

This is Arrow. Of course it's Plot device with no logical reason ;) 

 

I hope it isn't true and I take solace in the fact that MG called it a 'hallucination' which implies that there's some outside force at work making Felicity's mind conjure up her goth self. 

I think maybe it's a side-effect from injecting herself with some kind of something from Palmer Tech to help repair her spine.

/totally off-the-wall theory

 

Watch it be true :p your track record has been great this season

[Guest]

So if Felicity is hallucinating do we have any idea why (I didn't see anything, but perhaps I missed it)?  The implication seemed to be that it was for more than one episode from the autograph guy.  There doesn’t seem to be any head injury from the preview.  So if she is not just hallucinating while in surgery, why would she be hallucinating at all?  Is it possible DD does something to her while she is in the hospital so that she is under his control (and this is a side effect)?   Is it a result of whatever high tech thing goes on in 4-11?  A side effect of “dying” since she already died in one reality (are their side effects from what Barry did)?   Plot device with no logical reason for being? 

 

 

The hallucination is either a side effect from something or it could be a personification of her internal fears/emotions? Rather than have Felicity outright say she's depressed or scared or upset about her injury, her younger self could tell us. Or maybe she's doubting her abilities or the reason why she joined Team Arrow and she pictures the self that first got into hacking? Maybe her hallucination is going to convince her to do something crazy to get her to walk again. 

[Morrigan2575]

I think maybe it's a side-effect from injecting herself with some kind of something from Palmer Tech to help repair her spine.

/totally off-the-wall theory

I like that theory. ;-)

I hope that Goth Felicity is there to encourage Felicity to figure a "cure" out. I don't want her there to put Felicity down or vocalize Felicity's insecurities about being in a wheelchair

Edited January 20, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

I'm all for GothFelicity being there to give Felicity a kick in the ass. I'm hoping with a lot of snark. I'd love to see EBR play a different side of Felicity.

[way2interested]

The hallucination is either a side effect from something or it could be a personification of her internal fears/emotions? Rather than have Felicity outright say she's depressed or scared or upset about her injury, her younger self could tell us. Or maybe she's doubting her abilities or the reason why she joined Team Arrow and she pictures the self that first got into hacking? Maybe her hallucination is going to convince her to do something crazy to get her to walk again. 

 

Figured something like that, although I wonder which episode it's from. I pictured 411, right when she and Oliver are adjusting to "a new way of life." Felicity could be wary about rejoining Team Arrow right off the bat after a serious injury and GothFelicity could be there to remind her that she wanted to be a hero in the first place. Partially vocalizing fears but mostly pushing herself to get up (and maybe find a "cure"). Then, by the end of 411, she decides to rejoin Team Arrow again and then gets that codename.

[Mrs. de Winter]

I like the side effect idea and that it happens because Felicity taking action to help herself.  My fear that her injury will become something for everyone else to fix and solve and suffer over is high.  Felicity is an inherently strong person - and they better not forget that. 

[lemotomato]

Good thing she isn't smirking.

::shrug:: I posted after watching it twice, not going frame by frame for context. At first glance it looked like they were giving her another "I'm a badass, smiling while I'm fighting" moment like they did in the NYCC sizzle reel.

[SleepDeprived]

^ Laurel's actually bleeding from the head in that scene. She touches the side of her face and there's blood in her hands.

 

Regarding the guy pointing a gun at Lyla, I don't think it's the guy in the screencap above. I think they did some trick editing and that guy pulling the trigger is shooting somebody else (not Lyla). The guy pointing a gun at Lyla has a different haircut, from what I can see, than the one who pulled the trigger. Also, guy pulling the trigger is holding the gun in his left hand while guy pointing gun at Lyla is holding it in his right hand. No, I absolutely did not obsessively pause/play the trailer. Both are probably from Shadowspire since it looks like A.R.G.U.S. HQ is going to get attacked. I think that's Waller on the floor in the scene with Lyla and dude doing the gun pointing.

[apinknightmare]

Pretty sure that's an "I just got clipped in the ear/head" face since there's blood all over her hand when she pulls it away.

 

ETA: or what @SleepDeprived said!

Edited January 20, 2016 by apinknightmare

[apinknightmare]

 

Regarding the guy pointing a gun at Lyla, I don't think it's the guy in the screencap above. I think they did some trick editing and that guy pulling the trigger is shooting somebody else (not Lyla). The guy pointing a gun at Lyla has a different haircut, from what I can see, than the one who pulled the trigger. Also, guy pulling the trigger is holding the gun in his left hand while guy pointing gun at Lyla is holding it in his right hand. No, I absolutely did not obsessively pause/play the trailer. Both are probably from Shadowspire since it looks like A.R.G.U.S. HQ is going to get attacked. I think that's Waller on the floor in the scene with Lyla and dude doing the gun pointing.

 

I think he is shooting Lyla, I just think he's standing to the left of the guy who's on the video pointing the gun at her - she's looking to her right just before the gun goes off. Maybe this guy comes in just after she gets held up? In the shot, they appear to be in the same room based on the background, and when the bullet goes off that looks kind of like Lyla's profile (blurry as it is). Could be wrong, though.

Edited January 20, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

Looked like Lyla to me, if you freeze frame the promo at 1:12 you can see more of Lyla's face just before you get to the clearer image of the guy with the gun (posted screencap which is at timestamp 1:13).

I have no idea how to do a screen cap or i would try to get it for you.

As for the lady on the ground i don't think that's Amanda. SA said at San Jose that Arrow lost Waller and, he didn't think we'd see her again.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

As for the lady on the ground i don't think that's Amanda. SA said at San Jose that Arrow lost Waller and, he didn't think we'd see her again.

 

She also looks white to me, but that could just be the lighting.

[Morrigan2575]

She also looks white to me, but that could just be the lighting.

I think you're right hut, I'm too lazy to go back and look :D

[lemotomato]

Not sure if these help, but here:

 

I don't think background lady's heels are stylish enough for her to be Amanda :P

Edited January 20, 2016 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

Judging by the first screen cap, it looks like the guy who shoots might actually be standing next to the guy aiming his gun at her, just that most of his body is blocked from the camera by the other dude - you can kind of make out his jacket.

Edited January 20, 2016 by apinknightmare

[SleepDeprived]

Oh, yeah. You're all correct. That's definitely not Waller.

 

I don't see anyone standing next to gun pointing guy, though. Even if he was blocked, that's a very tiny space for shooter guy to stand in next to those tables. I still don't think that's Lyla getting shot at. I think it's trick editing for the trailer 'cause the cut was very abrupt. Right-handed gun pointer is definitely not the same dude as Left-handed shooter, though. At least, I don't think so. Maybe, lady on the ground is the one who got shot.

[Chaser]

Re: BTS photo.

If Felicity is still in a wheelchair, EBR cannot catch a break with the heels. Also, you would think Oliver would be kind enough to change all the stairs into ramps.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Chaser

[apinknightmare]

I don't see anyone standing next to gun pointing guy, though. Even if he was blocked, that's a very tiny space for shooter guy to stand in next to those tables. I still don't think that's Lyla getting shot at. I think it's trick editing for the trailer 'cause the cut was very abrupt. Right-handed gun pointer is definitely not the same dude as Left-handed shooter, though. At least, I don't think so. Maybe, lady on the ground is the one who got shot.

 

 

Meh, I can see it. There's at least two feet between the cabinet Lyla's leaning against and the wall, and the guy's not next to a table, so it seems like there's room to me. I can even make out what I'd guess was leftie's gun dangling there by the baseboard. And that looks like Lyla's profile to me, but I guess it could be the lady on the floor. I don't think think it's tricky editing, but I also don't she actually gets shot here - seems to me like it could be some kind of a fake out or something since Diggle's inexplicably watching on a feed from the lair. Maybe this somehow leads up to her and Diggle's trip to Central City? 

 

Again, could be totally wrong and the guy shooting could be somewhere else/shooting at someone else. Guess we'll find out soon(ish) enough!

If Felicity is still in a wheelchair, EBR cannot catch a break with the heels. Also, you would think Oliver would be kind enough to change all the stairs into ramps.

 

There's more than one set of stairs - not all of them would need to have ramps. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

True but those stairs are right in front of the conference table. If they need to meet up, Felicity would need to go down the opposite side and backtrack to the table. Seems better to put at least two ramps in.

[apinknightmare]

I think the conference table might be on another side? I don't recall seeing that sitting area nearby. Come to think of it, I really don't remember ever seeing anyone sit in those chairs on the show.

Edited January 20, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

Yeah, I think you're right. I'm not sure why I had the conference table in my head.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Chaser

[Primal Slayer]

 

DD going big and trying off the both of them? They don't seem to be anywhere public.