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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Guest

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You know, it is possible that DD does die earlier than the end of the season and it opens up into really being about HIVE rather than one of their frontmen. That would definitely be something the show hasn't done before. 

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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looptab

looptab

Incredibly stupid ones, I would imagine. Maybe if they should use her to suck the life out of him? If the answer is no, everyone on that team is an idiot.

No kidding. Also, Thea needs to tell him, stat. 

 

BTW, what the hell is Laurel doing? haha, kidding, I don't care.

That new flash-forward terrifies me. Unless it's on the "previously" again, lol.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

IIRC, it's supposed to show us what was going on right before this person who dies bites it. 

I'm trying to remember that one, I think it was going to give an idea of where everyone was at the time of THE DEATH!!1! 

 

To the Spoiler Only Thread!  LOL

 

Found It  http://tvline.com/2015/11/05/arrow-who-dies-season-4-spoilers/

Question: When will we learn who is in the grave from the Arrow season premiere? —Kyle

Ausiello: Though the producers are being purposefully vague about the timing of that reveal, here’s something to at least whet your whistle. Co-showrunner Wendy Mericle told Matt Mitovich, “There might be” additional flash-forwards “here and there… right around midseason,” that certainly will add to the “Who dies?” mystery. “We’re definitely toying with that,” the EP added, “and when and if we do decide to do that, it will reveal even more pertinent information about not who’s going to be in the grave but certainly where our characters are when that [death] happens.”

 

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Chaser

Chaser

Must curious about the "emotional storyline" that brings Roy back into the fold. We know he is being blackmailed by The Calculator, maybe Calculator does know Felicity is his daughter.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

The campaign office seems like an odd place to have that intense, emotional scene between Oliver and Felicity. The placement kind of hints that the BMD (Baby Mama Drama) comes out on the campaign.

Also, it could be an intense scene between Oliver and Thea

Not so unusual, especially if the BM reveal happens in the middle of the debate. I could see Felicity not blowing up at Oliver at the debate venue since everyone in the media would be witness to it, but once they all returned to campaign headquarters? It's definitely a good possibility.

 

 

All that's telling me is that someone will take Oliver's side and Felicity will basically be in the wrong for getting upset about the secret. Okay show. Thanks.

 

I hate this so, so much. What Oliver did was bad enough, but the show setting it up that he was justified and having another character whom Felicity trusts hard-selling the fact that he lied to her about becoming an insta-mom without her knowing as a necessary thing? It enrages me.

giphy.gif

 

I think he means the truth will force a breakup that will last until May, but it's definitely not a well-written sentence.

You guys are way too optimistic. I'm not convinced that the breakup won't last through summer hiatus. Such is the faith I have in these showrunners.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

You guys are way too optimistic. I'm not convinced that the breakup won't last through summer hiatus. Such is the faith I have in these showrunners.

Oh, I was just trying to interpret Dougherty's meaning from that poorly-written sentence. I also think the breakup lasting into S5 is entirely possible. In fact, I think she might leave with her father at the end of the season. (I'd actually be fine with that, bc the more gone she is the more Oliver could learn never to lie to her again.) They've had two seasons with (IMO tacked-on) happy endings, so an unhappy one could well be the plan.

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bijoux

bijoux

Oh, I was just trying to interpret Dougherty's meaning from that poorly-written sentence. I also think the breakup lasting into S5 is entirely possible. In fact, I think she might leave with her father at the end of the season. (I'd actually be fine with that, bc the more gone she is the more Oliver could learn never to lie to her again.) They've had two seasons with (IMO tacked-on) happy endings, so an unhappy one could well be the plan.

 

Leaving town with her villainous dad would be a retread of Thea at the end of S2 for me. Like, if Felicity wants to leave with Donna, fine. But this is a guy who abandoned them when she was pretty young and clearly left her with some (very understandable) issues. I can't see Felicity doing that at all. Frankly, I don't even see her leaving Star City. Even if they break up for a longer period and she leaves the team (which again, I doubt), would she really leave Palmer Tech and the responsibility for its employees that she's taken over?

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Leaving town with her villainous dad would be a retread of Thea at the end of S2 for me. Like, if Felicity wants to leave with Donna, fine. But this is a guy who abandoned them when she was pretty young and clearly left her with some (very understandable) issues. I can't see Felicity doing that at all. Frankly, I don't even see her leaving Star City. Even if they break up for a longer period and she leaves the team (which again, I doubt), would she really leave Palmer Tech and the responsibility for its employees that she's taken over?

These writers retread a lot. It's their very favorite thing to do, except for piling on misery.

 

He could blackmail/threaten her into leaving, for a slight change. Regardless, I'm not at all sure of a happy season finale.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

If the season ends with Felicity being forced to do something against her will, that will be the worst thing to happen to her this year for me.

I just think it's possible, not necessarily likely. I do think it's somewhat likely that the season won't end happily, though.

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bijoux

bijoux

I'm not saying a sad or bad ending to the season is not possible, just that for me personally, taking away Felicity's right to make her own decisions, something that defines her on a basic level, is worse than putting her in a wheelchair. A lot worse.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

5 months of "Yay! Felicity is off the show!" "Is Felicity coming back for season 5?" "Felicity quit the team and abandoned Oliver, she's so selfish!" "Felicity is out of town! Time for Laurel and Oliver to get together!" speculation?

I'd quit the show just for my own sanity.

I don't think the season is going to end with an unhappy cliffhanger because 4B looks like it going to back to the show's default depressing mood. Felicity is wheelchair bound, a major character is going to die for good, and the last 3 episodes are always "darkest before the dawn" scenarios. They're not going into hiatus with no "dawn".

Edited by lemotomato
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Nope they were still shooting 4x14.

Are you sure?  414 was supposed to wrap on Friday 1/8  Maybe they were doing pickups?  

 

Principal filming should have begun on Monday for 415; unless they ran over schedule.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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statsgirl

statsgirl

I wonder if Oliver's "moral questions" about Thea's ability to fend off DD's powers will be about whether he should put her in the front line against DD to stop him, or whether he should go with his usual default to keep her save.

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kismet

kismet

It very well could come out during Papa Smoak's run. I just don't think so because it seems to me that they've set the secret kid storyline up as being all about the lie and keeping this secret, not about Oliver actually being a parent. But we'll see. It's difficult to go by what we've seen since they dropped the whole thing in the last ep.

The problem for Faux-Tebow is that he doesn't know about the kid. If he did, he'd be much more effective in helping Oliver keep it hidden. Seems like it'd be difficult for him to keep tabs on something he doesn't even know about.

The point of a campaign manager & opposition research is to find out all the secrets out there so you know what people are going to attack you with. So if Faux-Tebow did not find out about this kid & the paper trail before the big reveal than he's doing a bad job. Fire his ass.... Of course, I'm still hoping he is secretly sabotaging the campaign out of some secret vendetta against the Queens.

 

But whatever, I'm not even sure the writers know how to write a political story, so I really don't care. I also really don't care when OQ tells FS or FS finds out. It's gonna be a crappy for plot & drama moment. So I've decided I'm just not caring anymore to try to make it better or even to prepare myself for the inevitable trainwreck it is going to be.

 

Frankly, I'm beginning to have some cognitive dissonance when it comes to this show & the smorgasbord of crap the writers are trying to do that they are completely under-prepared & under-qualified to write. I just can't with most of it anymore.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

Heading into the back half of S4 just seems depressing for lack of another word. I'm excited to see Emily finally get a story arc (which I hope revolves around her). I'm also glad that some resolution will be coming for Diggle and his brother. I wanted both of these amazing actors to have a story arc that would really tell their backstory and also their future course for more focus. Both of them are important to Oliver's journey. I want the show get back to the version of Arrow that kicks ass by his lonesome and for the love of all that's a good script improve on Laurel or but her in the grave.

 

So with the hopes of Wendy and Marc not completely doing character assassination to most of the characters for plot sake I will go to bed each night with this in mind when it comes to the conclusion of Arrow Season 4!

 

https://vine.co/v/iMK3V397KHT

Edited by Ann Mack
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looptab

looptab

(edited)

Random thought..what if Roy is the hallucination? Or the Calculator is?

I don't know, that Tvline bit about the 'emotional storyline' got me thinking Roy's return might not be as straightforward as we think :)

Edited by looptab
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way2interested

way2interested

Random thought..what if Roy is the hallucination? Or the Calculator?

I don't know, that Tvline bit about the 'emotional storyline' got me thinking Roy's return might not be as straightforward as we think :)

Don't even go there! I appreciate the straightforwardness!

I figure that Roy's got to be real, since according to MG he interacts with the rest of the team. Therefore, the reason that he's in the city has to be real too, unless they are majorly Sixth Sensing us with 412-413...Although I would be lying if I said that idea never quickly crossed my mind as well.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Yeah, Colton filmed scenes with everyone (maybe not PB) for 412.  I  think he might have even filmed with Echo...or perhaps they were just doing selfies on set?

 

I'm guessing the emotional storyline is possibly related to The Calculator being Felicity's father or maybe Roy/Thea?  

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looptab

looptab

Don't even go there! I appreciate the straightforwardness!

I figure that Roy's got to be real, since according to MG he interacts with the rest of the team. Therefore, the reason that he's in the city has to be real too, unless they are majorly Sixth Sensing us with 412-413...Although I would be lying if I said that idea never quickly crossed my mind as well.

LOL, I had the same doubt when thinking about what MG said, and then I talked myself out of it, because it could all be a big hallucination of hers.

To be clear, I want both Roy's return and her father to be real, but this thing keeps going round my head :)

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Chaser

Chaser

I hadn't thought about Roy being the one Oliver talks too. I was thinking it was a parent, but someone who was abandoned by their parents would also have a worthwhile perspective (you know. like Felicity. Stupid Oliver).

 

I think it would be interesting if it was The Calculator. He isn't suppose to be good. He has the means to find out. He has the absentee father perspective. And it would allow some fantastic acting opportunities for TA and SA.

 

I really don't want it to be anyone close to both Oliver and Felicity. It would be like last year with Oliver getting Diggle and Felicity left in the dark. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I hadn't thought about Roy being the one Oliver talks too. I was thinking it was a parent, but someone who was abandoned by their parents would also have a worthwhile perspective (you know. like Felicity. Stupid Oliver).

 

I think it would be interesting if it was The Calculator. He isn't suppose to be good. He has the means to find out. He has the absentee father perspective. And it would allow some fantastic acting opportunities for TA and SA.

 

I really don't want it to be anyone close to both Oliver and Felicity. It would be like last year with Oliver getting Diggle and Felicity left in the dark. 

I'd be less angry about this stupid storyline if his lies and secret-keeping about something this huge, that totally affects her too, were fully acknowledged as WRONG. So yeah, if only a "bad guy" said it was good, all of TA and Donna were horrified, that'd go a long way with me.

 

I don't think it's going to happen, though. I think it's most likely Donna, especially if we find out that she told some kind of lie involving Papa Smoak and Felicity, too (maybe Papa wanted back in Felicity's life or some such). IRL that'd just be reason for Felicity to be furious with them both for lying about different huge things, but in-show I'm sure we're supposed to think that Oliver's at least partly right and really was in a tough spot (which is horseshit forever and ever). 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

The big problem is that right now Oliver's plan is occasional visits to this kid who won't ever know he's his father, because that's what he agreed to. He might want more than that, but is he ever going to try to get it? Is he just going to pop by whenever he's in Central City? Is he going to stage elaborate lies to sneak away for a visit in the hope that BM will eventually let him be a father? It seems like he would eventually want more, but who knows what he'd actually dare to ask for when he thinks BM holds all the power. Oliver's intentions make this secret way more or way less shitty, IMO, and we were given no indication about what his intentions are. 

 

If he really thinks he's only going to be Uncle Oliver to this kid forever and ever, then I would consider this a stupid but minor transgression, since he isn't planning on springing an instant family on Felicity at some point in the future. If he is planning on doing that, then it's incredibly shitty and worthy of all the anger. I'm guessing the show is going to go with the former with Oliver not really considering all that much about the future. 

 

I also don't think that Oliver having someone on his side is *such* a bad thing, or that someone advocating to Felicity on his behalf makes whoever it is a terrible friend/relative to Felicity. Oliver doesn't make good decisions on his own - Lyla pointed this out to Diggle earlier in the season. Felicity knows this, and she agreed to marry him knowing it. Hell, just a few episodes ago he wanted to go undercover with HIVE like a moron, and Felicity had to talk him out of it by reminding him that he's RUNNING FOR MAYOR. He should've learned by now, and it's frustrating, but after letting it marinate, I'm kind of meh on the whole thing. 

 

I know this post is probably unpopular opinion central, but I just don't care that much about it anymore. Maybe 6 weeks of the marinating has done that to me. As long as whatever happens ends with BM and lil Willie with a one-way ticket to nowhere, I'm good. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Future spouse having a kid he hasn't told you about, and it's okay-ish because he's only planning to see the kid occasionally, is not something I will ever buy. They're going to be MARRIED. There shouldn't be any huge secrets between them, and one of you having a kid is huge.

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bijoux

bijoux

apinknightmare, I'm there with you. but I am starting to believe Oliver will pay dearly for his lie. Precisely because, as has been brought up, nobody has been really called to task about theirs. Sure, there were minor confrontations here and there but nothing that turned things upside down. Not Laurel lying about Sara or Lance working with Darhk, which are the biggest ones. So I'm afraid all of this will have accumulated and fell on Oliver's shoulders before the season's over. I don't really need it, but I'm afraid it will be done to keep some sort of cosmic balance.
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

apinknightmare, I'm there with you. but I am starting to believe Oliver will pay dearly for his lie. Precisely because, as has been brought up, nobody has been really called to task about theirs. Sure, there were minor confrontations here and there but nothing that turned things upside down. Not Laurel lying about Sara or Lance working with Darhk, which are the biggest ones. So I'm afraid all of this will have accumulated and fell on Oliver's shoulders before the season's over. I don't really need it, but I'm afraid it will be done to keep some sort of cosmic balance.

Guggie, the guy with all the power, publicly stated Oliver did the best he could in an impossible situation. It's not going to be that bad for him. I mean, he's going to be dumped, but it will be temporary. Team Arrow might be mad at him. Felicity, on the other hand, is going to be paralyzed and in a wheelchair when she finds out and will then dump him, after which she'll be alone, paralyzed, and in a wheelchair.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I would never be okay with this in a real relationship or marriage, nor would I be okay with the other secret keeping, or Felicity drugging Oliver or a lot of other things. A known fictional idiot keeping a secret cause he's desperate and stupid? Meh, it's stopped bothering me, haha.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

I agree that Oliver and Felicity will not break up permanently, and I don't think Oliver will be punished for his lie by DD hurting Samantha or William (nor do I want that, because that's OTHER people truly paying, not actually Oliver, except with the guilt). And just like when Oliver made choices last year that some viewers found unforgivable, characters on this show will forgive him. Because a) people (and characters) are different, and have different breaking points, and most importantly, b) it's a TV show and the central character is not going to be ostracized forever. Oliver and Felicity are the central romance and it's not going to be over for good because of this one lie.

 

So, if a breakup that lasts for a half dozen episodes (my guess) isn't enough, then maybe it's time to jump ship, because this show prizes drama over emotional realism--or realism of any kind, in fact. It always has and always will.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

So, if a breakup that lasts for a half dozen episodes (my guess) isn't enough, then maybe it's time to jump ship, because this show prizes drama over emotional realism--or realism of any kind, in fact. It always has and always will.

If this is meant for me, I've said I want a temporary breakup, not permanent. I'd like at least one month of show time. Even IRL I think a fair number of couples would get past this, assuming nothing like it happens again. But it can't be treated like NBD, either.

I don't think the kid/BM are going to just go away by the end of the season. I think they're using the lie partially to stall the Oliver is a father storyline, and next season we'll see a lot more of the BM/kid (unfortunately).

Please no!

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calliope1975

calliope1975

I don't think the kid/BM are going to just go away by the end of the season. I think they're using the lie partially to stall the Oliver is a father storyline, and next season we'll see a lot more of the BM/kid (unfortunately).

 

You take that back!

 

Maybe, maybe, if this was Connor Hawke I would give two fucks, but it's not, and I don't. I'm going to have to practice using my FF button as it is. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I don't think the kid/BM are going to just go away by the end of the season. I think they're using the lie partially to stall the Oliver is a father storyline, and next season we'll see a lot more of the BM/kid (unfortunately).

 

I will believe they're getting gone until I can't believe it anymore. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I don't think the kid/BM are going to just go away by the end of the season. I think they're using the lie partially to stall the Oliver is a father storyline, and next season we'll see a lot more of the BM/kid (unfortunately).

I kinda think that was the original plan, yes, but they got so super criticized and called out on the BS/plot-drivenness of this storyline -- by both fandom and pro media alike -- that I'm gonna hold on to the idea that the network note says "kill this storyline with fire" until proven otherwise.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

I kinda think that was the original plan, yes, but they got so super criticized and called out on the BS/plot-drivenness of this storyline -- by both fandom and pro media alike -- that I'm gonna hold on to the idea that the network note says "kill this storyline with fire" until proven otherwise.

They got criticized for the lying, but not so much the kid himself. Do you think the network will just roll the whole thing into one failed storyline and tell them to kill it, or separate out the two and let the kid storyline continue? 

Edited by AyChihuahua
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

It's hard to judge where they're going with the baby mama/kid storyline because this has been part of the plan since the beginning. So it makes me wonder if they did want Oliver to play at being a father at some point down the line (s5) but not before causing relationship drama between him and Laurel. Because, let's face it, this was always supposed to be a spanner in the works in that relationship, seeing as O/L was their original plan. What's a bigger problem than the appearance of the kid you fathered when you cheated on your girlfriend years ago?

 

But now, because the woman is Felicity instead of Laurel, the lie seems especially contrived. I wouldn't find lying to Laurel great either but at least it's consistent with that mess of a relationship and their history.

 

And then of course you have the fact that Felicity is seriously injured because she's Oliver's girlfriend which means William and his mom are also in danger by way of their connection, so it seems absolutely mental for his son to still be in the picture after this.

 

I was really angry about the storyline when it first happened but now I actually think I'm more concerned with how Felicity comes out of this, especially as Oliver will have an ally in supporting his lie. I think with Felicity's upcoming paralysis storyline I'm feeling extra protective of her character and everything else is just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.  So at this point, I really don't care if they break up or not. Eh.

Edited by Guest
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Guest
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