Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Starfish35]

@strikera0 said in the other thread that filming for Power is in New York though. That means flying back and forth across the country. I don't know. Maybe it won't affect anything, but if I was a Laurel fan I'd be getting worried.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

If it starts filming in Sept, how many eps is J.R. signed up for with Arrow? Is Wildcat just going to be an Easter Egg appearance or is he going to be like BD Paul who played the ADA and only have a few seconds of screen time for a couple of episodes because he was filming Orphan Black at the same time? That won't be much of a love story and it looks like Laurel's training will be taking place off screen. Then when KC's stunt double shows up as BC she'll magically be amazing.

Who knows? They've actually never said how many episodes JR Rameriz was signed for. I've heard he was "possibly recurring" others have said "recurring".

Schedule can be arranged but it's not as easy as some people are making it out.

Didn't Walter disappear in S1 because Colin Salmon got another gig and wasn't available?

Edited August 17, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

Walter didn't really have that big of a role to play though. Wildcat is supposed to be the whole reason Laurel can become Black Canary. I'm worried they'll have Laurel take a few boxing lessons, sleep with her trainer and then be good enough to go toe to toe with Oliver at the end of the season. 

Edited August 17, 2014 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

Walter didn't really have that big of a role to play though. Wildcat is supposed to be the whole reason Laurel can become Black Canary.

In the comics, yes. In the show, who knows? I mean we really have no idea what thwy planned. Other than saying he's going to have an impact on Laurel's journey we kind of don't know much.

As for Walter who knows what his original role was? They had a recurring character and the actor got another gig, they had to change plans to accommodate the scheduling conflict.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[DrSpaceman10]

I'm worried they'll have Laurel take a few boxing lessons, sleep with her trainer and then be good enough to go toe to toe with Oliver at the end of the season. 

 

If they go by that logic then shouldn't Felicity be even better than Laurel by then? At least we've seen Felicity being trained by Diggle/Sara, we haven't seen anything physical at all from Laurel since a little bit of fighting in season one (which she already seems to have forgotten). I don't think they'll even have time to do some big BC story with Laurel because there are so many other characters this year. 

[Sakura12]

What other kind of impact can he have? He's a fight trainer, Laurel needs fight training to become Black Canary. 

 

Of course they could be lying like when they said at the beginning of last season that Sara was a huge part of Laurel's journey and Laurel was barely part of the show last season. 

[apinknightmare]

In the comics, yes. In the show, who knows? I mean we really have no idea what thwy planned. Other than saying he's going to have an impact on Laurel's journey we kind of don't know much.

As for Walter who knows what his original role was? They had a recurring character and the actor got another gig, they had to change plans to accommodate the scheduling conflict.

 

Yeah, if he accepted a gig with another show, either the filming details have been worked out with Arrow, or he's not going to be on Arrow long enough for it to matter. I'm not even sure he's going to be Wildcat on this show - The banner in the background of the gym read "Home of the SBC (Starling Boxing Club, I guess) WIldcats." Who even knows what they're planning to do with him.

[Starfish35]

I don't think they'll even have time to do some big BC story with Laurel because there are so many other characters this year.

If they keep not having time for Laurel's story, one does wonder how long they will persist in keeping her. That's a full time cast salary you could free up for someone that, you know, you're actually interested in writing for.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Starfish35

[DrSpaceman10]

I wonder if Sara will end up being in this season more than Laurel like last year. I'm pretty sure that Sara is at least in episodes 1, 2, and 4 and I haven't heard anything about a Laurel-centric episode

Edited August 17, 2014 by drspaceman10

[Morrigan2575]

Of course they could be lying like when they said at the beginning of last season that Sara was a huge part of Laurel's journey and Laurel was barely part of the show last season.

And that's what I'm thinking they said last year that Sara was part of Laurel's journey and then the characters didn't see each until episode 13. S2 Sara was more about Sara than furthering Laurel (minus the dumbass jacket passing).

We really don't know what kind of impact Ted will have. Does he train her? Maybe. Is he a LI? Maybe. Does he do nothing more than inspire her seek justice outside of the law? Maybe. Does he live/die?

I'm not even sure he's going to be Wildcat on this show - The banner in the background of the gym read "Home of the SBC (Starling Boxing Club, I guess) WIldcats." Who even knows what they're planning to do with him.

Another good point. Is he a vigilante or just a boxer with heart of gold? Is the Wild Cat just an easter egg and like Kate Spencer he won't he won't have the comicbook alter ego? It's all very vague at this point. Edited August 17, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

If they keep not having time for Laurel's story, one does wonder how long they will persist in keeping her. That's a full time cast salary you could free up for someone that, you know, you're actually interested in writing for.

 

Well, I for one hope they don't have time for Laurel's story because I really don't care about it, but just because this guy may or may not be in only a few episodes doesn't mean they're not going to focus on her. They'll just be focusing on her without him.

[Starfish35]

Well, I for one hope they don't have time for Laurel's story because I really don't care about it, but just because this guy may or may not be in only a few episodes doesn't mean they're not going to focus on her. They'll just be focusing on her without him.

That was a reply to @DrSpaceman10's post - should have added the quote I was replying to. ETA: now added. You're right, it doesn't mean they won't, but seeing as how the only significant spoilers we've gotten about Laurel have revolved around Ted, the idea that he might not actually be there very much is....interesting. And reminds me of last season when the only real spoilers we got about her were about her vendetta against the Hood. And we know how long that lasted.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Starfish35

[DrSpaceman10]

I think we can officially say that Stephen Amell saying this season "would be more intimate" is no longer true, unless he meant Oliver and Felicity ;)

[KenyaJ]

Honestly, we already have a very competent and well-liked Black Canary. And now that Laurel is no longer Oliver's love interest, there's really no reason for her to still be on the canvas. Sure, it's necessary to have a lawyer character (says moi, a lawyer, LOL], but you could hire any low-budget actor to be a recurring character. Unless they've renegotiated Stephen's contract, KC is the highest paid actor on the show. But at this point, she's like the highest paid player on a team who's lost his starting spot, just sitting on the bench every week, collecting a huge paycheck for doing a bunch of nothing. A sports team would let that player go to free up some room under the salary cap. I wish Arrow would do the same. There's no reason for KC to get paid so much when she's so peripheral to the show.

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a reminder, this is the place to discuss Spoilers and discuss them. Before you post, take a minute, and think if that's what your post is about, please. Posts will start being moved without notification going forward if they aren't about Spoilers.

 

Thanks.

[statsgirl]

Are they shooting 3x03 now?  In that case, they can have four or five episodes in the can before Ramirez leaves for the other show.

 

If he's not a major part of the storyline like Ray or Katana, then he can shoot his scenes to 1) start Laurel's training and 2) be her love interest so that she's got someone and can leave Oliver to Felicity, and then pop back occasionally to show that Laurel is still working out and still romantically involved.  He doesn't need to do more, the superhero quota is met with Oliver, Roy, Diggle, Sara and possibly Ray, and Count Vertigo, Malcolm Merlyn and Ra's will do nicely for the longer arc villains.

[apinknightmare]

Spoilery things from Stephen's Facebook Q&A:

 

1. Two lies and a truth: 1. There's going to be a boxing glove arrow this year, 2. Not everybody makes it and 3. Roy has the only new superhero suit

(SA said Oliver gets a suit upgrade, so we know that's one of the lies. I'll take a guess that #2 is the truth).

 

Potential UGH:

 

2. Regarding a question someone asked about whether Oliver's ever going to train Felicity to fight (his answer: he hopes not - Oliver likes Felicity away from danger): "Oliver training people is actually going to be an interesting plot point for season 3"

[Morrigan2575]

They finished 303, they're shooting 304 until 8/22.

JR Ramirez already left Vancouver after he finished his shoot for 303.

. Regarding a question someone asked about whether Oliver's ever going to train Felicity to fight (his answer: he hopes not - Oliver likes Felicity away from danger): "Oliver training people is actually going to be an interesting plot point for season 3"

EBR and SA have very different views on that subject.

Urgh because you want Felicity trained or another reason?

Edited August 17, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[TanyaKay]

Spoilery things from Stephen's Facebook Q&A:

 

1. Two lies and a truth: 1. There's going to be a boxing glove arrow this year, 2. Not everybody makes it and 3. Roy has the only new superhero suit

(SA said Oliver gets a suit upgrade, so we know that's one of the lies. I'll take a guess that #2 is the truth).

 

Potential UGH:

 

2. Regarding a question someone asked about whether Oliver's ever going to train Felicity to fight (his answer: he hopes not - Oliver likes Felicity away from danger): "Oliver training people is actually going to be an interesting plot point for season 3"

 

Yups, I think it is safe to assume that Arrow will kill at least one important cast member every season and season 3 will be no exception.

We have lost Colin Donnell and Sussanna Thompson in the first two seasons, I hope we do not actually lose an important cast member and just get rid of Laurel Lance this season because she is the most expendable character who often times has to be inserted into the story which devalues the whole process of story telling and makes other characters look stupid or annoying or both.

[apinknightmare]

They finished 303, they're shooting 304 until 8/22.

JR Ramirez already left Vancouver after he finished his shoot for 303.

EBR and SA have very different views on that subject.

Urgh because you want Felicity trained or another reason?

 

UGH because I'm afraid the person he's going to be training is Laurel, haha.

 

Hopefully it's Thea. Or some other person we don't know about.

 

ETA: I do think Felicity should learn how to defend herself, but I don't think Oliver should be the one who teaches her.

Edited August 17, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Starfish35]

I'd hoped we'd avoided the "Oliver training Laurel" thing with Ted Grant. :( I'd rather see Sara train Laurel than Oliver.

Maybe he's referring to Roy and Oliver's rather poor training of him.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

Please let that be Oliver is working at the boxing gym training kids or something, and not Oliver training anyone to be a superhero? Because he sucks at it.

[Morrigan2575]

I would assume Oliver is training roy, since that's his sidekick

[Sakura12]

He doesn't need to train Felicity to fight like a super hero, but someone should be training her how to defend herself. Because working with him is dangerous. I'm still hoping Sara teaches Felicity some self defense moves, it would be better for her to learn from a woman that's small like her. While I don't think Dig would be a bad teacher, but look at him, who would pick a fight with him? His arms are practically the size of Felicity's head. She needs to know how to take someone down who is that size using the small body she has.

 

Killing characters has become almost a common occurrence on tv shows these days. It's more shocking when they don't kill off characters now.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Sakura12

[apinknightmare]

I would assume Oliver is training roy, since that's his sidekick

 

I hope so. I just got worried because it seems like that was done last year - they had Roy proficiently arrowing in the finale.

[statsgirl]

My vote goes for Oliver training Roy.  He didn't do it well enough in s2, now is his chance to do it right.  I hope Sara or Diggle will continue to train Felicity.

 

Oliver training Laurel is wrong for a number of reasons:  he should be too busy being vigilante and getting back AC to have time to do it; she doesn't really need superhero training, boxing should be enough; and I never wanted to see Oliver and Laurel close and sweaty again.

 

I've been reading a fanfic where after Queen Manor is gone, Oliver moves in with Roy since Thea is now gone and Roy needs stability. As much as  I'd like him to move in with Felicity, Roy makes a lot more sense.

[Morrigan2575]

I would think Roy because he's got a costume now, is out there fighting along side Arrow so, training being a big storyline would make sense. We will most likely have clashes between Oliver/roy over training, actions in the field, plus anger issues, etc. Standard mentor/protege type storyline, especially if they throw in the lies over killing the cops and stuff.

Also as others pointed out Oliver, sucked at it last year so it's a chance to do it right and would also be a nice parallel/contrast to the Hong Kong story with Oliver as the mentor vs Student

[Carrie Ann]

My vote goes for Oliver training Roy.  He didn't do it well enough in s2, now is his chance to do it right.  I hope Sara or Diggle will continue to train Felicity.

 

Oliver training Laurel is wrong for a number of reasons:  he should be too busy being vigilante and getting back AC to have time to do it; she doesn't really need superhero training, boxing should be enough; and I never wanted to see Oliver and Laurel close and sweaty again.

 

Based on the few spoilers we have and the trailer, it seems like Oliver is pushing Felicity and Dig away to try to keep them safe. It seems like that would be equally true for Laurel, from his perspective, so if he does train her at all, I wouldn't expect that until he's resolved this savior complex.

 

But I can understand his willingness to continue to train Roy--he really has nothing else in his life right now, and he'd been doing this kind of thing on his own before he got involved with the Arrow. He'd absolutely go back to that if Oliver ditched him, so it's safer and more practical to keep working with him.

[wonderwall]

I honestly don't understand why people want Oliver to train Laurel. The people who actually want Laurel to become BC must understand that BC in the comics was a better fighter than Oliver right? So how can she become a better fighter than Oliver if Oliver himself is the one who trains her? And that too, he can't dedicate his entire time to train her because he has other things to worry about like a)Saving the city b)Getting back his company c)making heart eyes at Felicity d)Making time for Sally

 

Logistically I don't see how this would make sense? 

[abhi]

I think there could be a death scene in 3x02. I don't think its Sara because Caity has signed on for 5 to 6 episodes and that is before the second half of the Season i.e she is going to be in at least 5 to 6 episodes  prior to 3x13. There are several things that points towards some tragedy in 3x02. Colton saying that something terrible happens that brings Roy and Sara closer. There's a very emotional scene between Oliver and Diggle etc. My two candidates are Lyla(since Ramsey has said that she will not remain the head of A.R.G.U.S for long) or Sin.

[Password]

Oh my word Lyla would break my heart. Poor Diggle!! Alone with a baby girl.

I like Sin too so, gosh harsh times.

[wonderwall]

So these three possibilities have a lot of merit. These deaths would not only progress the plot and affect certain relationships, it will also hold true to what some of the actors have said about the season. 

 

Sin: Colton Haynes said that something terrible happens that will bring Sara and Roy closer. I think that the only connection that they have right now is Sin. And if she were to die, I could definitely see it bringing Sara and Roy closer as they bond over the death of a loved one who no one else truly knew. Not only would Sin's death also take Sara on a darker path (as CH mentioned), it would also help Roy on his path to seek justice. Also, Bex has already gotten snagged as a series regular on a different show (whether or not it will be picked up remains to be seen). 

 

Lyla: David Ramsay sort of teased that Lyla may or may not be head of ARGUS for long. This leaves room for a lot of speculation that she may be the one to die because there's no other way I can see Lyla stepping down as head other than dying. Not only would this offer some great moments for Digg, it could affect Digg and Oliver's relationship as Oliver will try to keep Digg far away from the Arrow. If Lyla dies, then it would make sense why that particular scene SA and DR shot hit close to home for SA as he's a new father as well.

 

Nyssa: Her death is also possible because I think it would be a plausible way for Ra's Al Ghul's entrance by the midseason finale. Her death will probably be the reason why Ra's will be going after Oliver and Team Arrow and tearing them apart. This could also be a reason why Sara would go down the dark path because it's obvious Sara cares for Nyssa. 

 

While Sin's death will bring people together, Lyla's death will tear relationships apart, and Nyssa's will just screw everything up for everyone. I hope neither of these deaths happen. I truly do. 

Edited August 17, 2014 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

So these three possibilities have a lot of merit. These deaths would not only progress the plot and affect certain relationships, it will also hold true to what some of the actors have said about the season. 

 

Lyla: David Ramsay sort of teased that Lyla may or may not be head of ARGUS for long. This leaves room for a lot of speculation that she may be the one to die because there's no other way I can see Lyla stepping down as head other than dying. Not only would this offer some great moments for Digg, it could affect Digg and Oliver's relationship as Oliver will try to keep Digg far away from the Arrow. If Lyla dies, then it would make sense why that particular scene SA and DR shot hit close to home for SA as he's a new father as well.

 

 

I really hope Lyla doesn't die, not only because she's awesome, but also because I really don't care to see a woman killed off to set off Diggle's suddenly single father manpain. Not that I don't love DR and I think he'd handle it beautifully, but...eh. As for Lyla not being head of ARGUS for long, since it's a government agency, she wouldn't really have a choice about stepping down if she was told/asked to. I thought that maybe Waller was suspended due to the drone incident and Lyla took her place during that time - maybe she steps down because Waller comes back? I'm hoping that's what happens.

 

Out of the three possibilities listed above, I think Sin's the most likely.

 

I guess he could also be talking about Sara, too. When was the last time CL was in Vancouver? While her being signed on for more episodes is a comfort, maybe they're going to be flashbacks? She could be out assassin-ing though, and if something does happen to Sin, maybe she needs time away (although I would think she'd stick around to at least find whoever did it). Basically what I'm saying is that I have no idea.

[DrSpaceman10]

I'm pretty sure Sara and Nyssa are both going to be in episode 4. The Vancouver paparazzi said on twitter he ran into Katrina Law yesterday, and James Bamford posted a picture on his instagram of Caity Lotz's stunt double rehearsing.

[KirkB]

Has it been confirmed there is only ONE death this season? They could easily kill Sin, bringing Sara and Roy closer, and then later kill Nyssa as a pretty damn good reason to bring Ra's to Starling.

[Guest]

I still think Sara will die this season. I don't see how Laurel can become BC otherwise. As for the others, I have a feeling Sin might die if something terrible happens that brings Roy and Sara closer. There's no one else that fits that descriptive. 

[Starfish35]

Has it been confirmed there is only ONE death this season? They could easily kill Sin, bringing Sara and Roy closer, and then later kill Nyssa as a pretty damn good reason to bring Ra's to Starling.

No, I don't think that's been confirmed. I could see both happening.

[apinknightmare]

No, I don't think that's been confirmed. I could see both happening.

 

I wonder if that line in Heir to the Demon, where Oliver tells Diggle "If half of the stories I've heard about Ra's al Ghul are true, Sara kills his daughter? We will all pay." is foreshadowing. Not that I necessarily think Sara would kill Nyssa, but...

[statsgirl]

Sara could accidentally kill Nyssa, or Nyssa could die doing something with Team Arrow. That would be guilt-free for the team (except for the emotional stuff) but still bring Ra's down.

 

My vote still goes with Sin dying, although I would dearly miss her.  It would be the thing that would bring Roy and Sara closest, and give both of them lots of emotional beats to play.  Not to mention Bex Taylor-Kraus has got another show and she's guesting on things like Longmire.

 

I think Lyla dying would be all kinds of messy for the show.  Besides being a kick-ass person, she's the only female character left over 30 and having Diggle a single father would severely limit his ability to be part of Team Arrow, much more than Oliver pushing him away.

 

Maybe she steps down from running ARGUS because it's too much when she has a baby, maybe she's forced down after whatever happens in Corso Maltese.

[abhi]

I think this Season will be about Ra's trying to recruit Oliver through whatever means possible. and maybe something happens in the finale of Season 3 that finally angers Ra's and he starts treating Oliver as an enemy in the 4th Season when we would supposedly see the "war" that is coming. If Nyssa dies, I don't think it would be before the series finale and hopefully it would lead to Talia's introduction next Season.

[Velocity23]

Charlotte Ross got her script for the Oracle episode:

 

https://twitter.com/charlotteross/status/501076126802771968

[wonderwall]

I mean... If the EPs spent more than a year planning Felicity's backstory and called it The Secret Origins of Felicity Smoak, you know the episode's gonna be a great one :p I can't wait!

[poetgirl925]

I honestly don't understand why people want Oliver to train Laurel. The people who actually want Laurel to become BC must understand that BC in the comics was a better fighter than Oliver right? So how can she become a better fighter than Oliver if Oliver himself is the one who trains her? And that too, he can't dedicate his entire time to train her because he has other things to worry about like a)Saving the city b)Getting back his company c)making heart eyes at Felicity d)Making time for Sally

 

Logistically I don't see how this would make sense?

Who on earth, besides shippers, would want Oliver to train Laurel? Is this seriously a thing? I haven't seen that but I'd be really surprised if this is actually a popular idea. The Green Arrow doesn't train Black Canary, not if they want her to be taken seriously by comic fans. I think comic fans would hate that and BC fans would probably be incensed. I mean, she would be no better than sidekick Roy in that case. Actually, she'd probably be worse since she's significantly older and starting so late. I just assumed that with the introduction of Ted Grant that the topic of who trains Laurel is settled. I know he's got this other show, but he had to know that was a possibility when he accepted the recurring role on Arrow, so I'm not too worried about that. However, I'm still hoping we find out he's also a mixed martial artist in addition to being a boxer because teaching Laurel how to box isn't really going to satisfy the training she needs to be Black Canary. Actually, wasn't he a Krav Maga expert in the comics or something like that? I can't remember every detail but my brother got into trouble for trying one of Wildcat's martial arts moves on me when we were young lol. IIRC he got it from one of the animated series we watched.

I'll be surprised if they kill Lyla since they're introducing the baby. For some reason I just don't think they'll do it. I do think Sin is a good guess. Sara is also at risk, unfortunately. As much as I'd hate it, I don't see another reason for Laurel to want to be BC.

[wonderwall]

@poetgirl925, I've been on a lot of boards and it seems as though the idea is popular (surprisingly) amongst the comic book purists and Lauriver/Laurel fans. IDK it doesn't make much sense to me. If anyone can clear this up that would actually be helpful

[Password]

I mean... If the EPs spent more than a year planning Felicity's backstory and called it The Secret Origins of Felicity Smoak, you know the episode's gonna be a great one :p I can't wait!

 

I certainly hope so, seeing as we've waited 10 years for anything more than a throw away line about Felicity's past. Can't wait for mama Smoak.

[Orion]

My guess is the people wanting Oliver to train Laurel are people who 1. are trying to find a way to get her on Team Arrow. Most people recognize (whether they admit it or not) that Laurel as she stands right now doesn't belong within the team itself. That she doesn't have skills that would enable her to interact with them beyond something, something lawyer. It's a way to buy her agency in the story.  She automatically becomes more important to the plot if Oliver decides she is worthy of being trained.  2. they are Laurel/Oliver shippers (whether they admit it or not) and they think that the training scenes will show the chemistry between the two.  3. They are just tired of waiting for Laurel to become the BC so it doesn't matter to them how or why she gets there just as long as she does. Either way I think we are safe from Oliver training anyone but Roy. SA always said that Oliver didn't want Laurel to know because when people find out his secret they are in more danger, if he needs to keep Felicity safe I assume the same would go for Laurel.

[Morrigan2575]

Katie Cassidy wanted Oliver to train Laurel, this was from an interview that she did in early June 2013 before she found out about Caity Lotz.

[wonderwall]

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/501096696793669632

 

From this tweet I assume Felicity's parents aren't only in the flashbacks?!

 

I HOPE?!

[dtissagirl]

I can see Laurel going to Oliver to ask him to help her keep her self-defense skills sharp, and him agreeing to that. But Laurel training with Oliver to be a masked vigilante loses me because -- never mind the complete lack of motivation for Laurel -- why on Earth would Oliver agree to that?

Edited August 17, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Password]

SA said in the Facebook Q & A that he hopes Oliver doesn't train Felicity because he doesn't want her in (near) danger. I would think the same would apply to Laurel because Felicity would need even more self defense lessons than Laurel seeing as she goes into the field sometimes.