EmilyBettFan August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 It's better than the 100 times we've seen Lance family drama. 3 Link to comment
apinknightmare August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 Maybe I am remembering this wrong but didn't they do one with her and the guy who played Ted Grant? Even if they didn't, isn't it somewhat telling that after not testing KC/SA that they now do a chemistry test for almost all the characters. At least there was a learning process. IIRC, MG said they intended to, but they lost the actor to another show. Why they wouldn't have locked him in if they had plans for him, I have no idea. Link to comment
Velocity23 August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 He was a recurring character on another show at the time Arrow cast him. They up him to series regular and that is why Arrow lost him. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 August 18, 2015 Author Share August 18, 2015 Maybe I am remembering this wrong but didn't they do one with her and the guy who played Ted Grant? Even if they didn't, isn't it somewhat telling that after not testing KC/SA that they now do a chemistry test for almost all the characters. At least there was a learning process. They didn't do a chem test with KC/JRR, not sure why. Even if they were uncertain about a potential romance (although I believe it was hinted at in interviews) they certainly should/could have done a Chem Test since they were going to build a relationship of some sort (partners, friends, etc). 1 Link to comment
statsgirl August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 I'm going to take WM's statement that Laurel doesn't have more to learn as meaning 'we don't have more storyline to tell with Laurel learning' and say "Thank you, can we give that time to Diggle and Felicity now?" (3x05 was a Felicity episode, fingers crossed 4x065is too. 3x04 was heavy on Malcolm and Laurel; it looks like 4x05 is Laurel & Lance family heavy so it may be a pattern.) I think the best they could have done for Laurel is to have her go darker and become something like ManHunter instead of the iconic Black Canary but for whatever reason (love of the comic character? fear of backlash?) they didn't and now they've got what they've got, which is a character part of the audience thinks they did badly by and want her to be the Green Arrow's equal, and which another part of the audience will never accept her with her magically-created powers. Time for me to make lemonade and hope she doesn't change the direction of the show too much now that she's fully on the Team. Best case scenario might be having her conflicted about being an ADA and yet breaking the law as a vigilante but this is Laurel we're talking about, whose predominant characteristic is that she's always convinced that she's right. LL seems to draw heavily/steal from other people's life. She already stole her mother's narcissism, her father's addiction & her sister's life. On behalf of Dinah, I don't think that's fair. I see Dinah leaving as a combination of grief, Quentin's obsession with the Dollmaker instead of being there for his wife, her grief and guilt over Sara, and Laurel's already evident narcissism and having left her mother. (We can take it to Merry Men if you'd like to talk though.) 2 Link to comment
dtissagirl August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 From the Wendy Mericle interview posted at Spoilers Only: In these things, nothing goes smoothly in Shakespeare or on our show L O L. Link to comment
AyChihuahua August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 There really is a very good chance they'll break up at some point. I'd expect them to get back together eventually, but I definitely expect a breakup. Don't WANT it, at all, but expect it. 4 Link to comment
Sakura12 August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 It'll probably be when they need Oliver to go through his dumbass phase again. 1 Link to comment
dtissagirl August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 Well, there's a Baby Mama, and a Surprise!Kid just waiting to poop on their heads, so. Link to comment
Belinea August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 I know that happiness is boring in TV land but I am really not a big fan of constant break-ups. I do think struggles are fine, that is just sometimes how relationships grow but I am not a fan of telling the audience "wait 'til the other shoe drops...because it will'. Maybe I am overanalyzing this but I am expecting the writers to really not know how to handle a relationship without having them break up. 6 Link to comment
dtissagirl August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 I'm pretty sure their relationship is safe this season. And it's not even that I doubt their ~endgame~ status -- I really don't. But the show has gone out of their way to give O/F the big fat OTP status, and TV Law pretty much requires at least one break-up [and subsequent reunion] before the happily ever after forever and ever amen. 1 Link to comment
statsgirl August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 (edited) I think the hardest thing to do is to change horses midstream and take a couple that were 'will they/won't they' and turn them into a stable relationship. Shows that start out with the OTP in a relationship like Hart To Hart or MacMillan and Wife have an easier time because all they need to do is to keep to what has been working. I've been happy with how Castle has been handling it because the underlying thread in their being together now that they finally are is that they trust each other and will do whatever it takes to keep being together. Maybe there's hope, and the former Moonlighting Curse has now left the stage to the HIMYM curse. Remembering that Booth and Bones broke up last season, I think it really depends on the creativity of the writers. If they can't think of anything else to do with the OTP, they'll break them up. If they're good, they can com up with other ways to bring drama to the show. It'll probably be when they need Oliver to go through his dumbass phase again. Sadly, yes. That seems to be their go-to for the show although maybe with WM show-running that will change somewhat. I just hope it isn't over the babymama stuff because Felicity is going to look terrible if she breaks up with Oliver just because he's got (at least one) illegitimate child from his Ollie days. That's something that should bother Laurel more than Felicity. In season 4, I'd rather it be over Felicity's father if he's a part of HIVE. Maybe she's the one horrified and he's the one going "join the group". Edited August 18, 2015 by statsgirl 1 Link to comment
AyChihuahua August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 I will laugh very hard if it turns out Darhk is after Felicity for whatever reason rather than Oliver, and she dumps Oliver to "keep him safe." 7 Link to comment
dtissagirl August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 In hindsight, it's kind of a good thing that they got SO MUCH FLAK about Oliver/Felicity being angsty in S3. That'll keep Guggnheim in check for at least 23 episodes. 6 Link to comment
Guest August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 (edited) I don't know if O/F will break up this season but they might come close. I expected storms to be weathered and all that. It can't be fluffy all the time and that just wouldn't be right on Arrow anyway. I know they said a lighter season but I doubt it will be that much lighter. So that interview was all good. I've only ever wanted O/F to work together as a couple, work things out. Be a team in all areas of their life together. Seems quite positive to me. For now! :) Edited August 18, 2015 by Guest Link to comment
jay741982 August 18, 2015 Share August 18, 2015 I will laugh very hard if it turns out Darhk is after Felicity for whatever reason rather than Oliver, and she dumps Oliver to "keep him safe." Wouldn't doubt it one bit my theory is he threatens to kill Oliver her momma everyone she loves to get her to work with him Link to comment
kismet August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 On behalf of Dinah, I don't think that's fair. I see Dinah leaving as a combination of grief, Quentin's obsession with the Dollmaker instead of being there for his wife, her grief and guilt over Sara, and Laurel's already evident narcissism and having left her mother. (We can take it to Merry Men if you'd like to talk though.) To Merry Men :) Link to comment
kismet August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 I will laugh very hard if it turns out Darhk is after Felicity for whatever reason rather than Oliver, and she dumps Oliver to "keep him safe." That would be a twist I would like to see. It would be fun to see how it would play out, if they wanted to be creative & repetitive at the same time. I don't know. Never say never when it comes to TV break ups & get togethers. But part of me thinks that O/F will be okay this season. I think they will weather ups & downs like all couples. I don't see smooth sailing. But I see them working out their problems together. Its just too much to split them so soon after last seasons angst overload. They need to give them at least one season of solid together. The on/off dynamic does not work in the way they have established operational team dynamic of Arrow. S5 will probably be when they take their prerequisite cool down, reevaluate time, pseudo-break & then back together. It will probably all relate to her father, OQ's newly discovered love kid & his Bratva darkness. Also realistically, FS will have now been in her new role for a full year - so it will perfect timing for her to be questioning her career choices & how it relates to her life & OQ. Just like Beckett does every so often when the writers need a reason to write believable & fixable tension in the couple again. Link to comment
AyChihuahua August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 That would be a twist I would like to see. It would be fun to see how it would play out, if they wanted to be creative & repetitive at the same time. Triple points if she surrenders herself to Darhk, too. I would never stop laughing. Good for the goose, good for the gander, and all that. 2 Link to comment
statsgirl August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 (edited) But, but she can't. She's not a real hero, and only heros can do that. [/sarcasm] Every season Oliver thinks he can do it alone, and every season he learns he needs his friends to help him. It would be a nice change if in s4 he starts out knowing he can count on his friends, and he and Felicity tackle the problems jointly. Goodness knows there's enough fanfic stories where they're written like that.. Edited August 19, 2015 by statsgirl 6 Link to comment
kismet August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 Quadruple points if they plan actually succeeds & then she still has to give OQ his annual pep talk about who he is. And then the boards would explode again - game over if she steals someone's mask to do. There is a precedence of self-sacrifice for non-masks. MQ, RQ, TM all did it, the problem is the didn't survive - and I don't want that result for FS. But she's a mold breaker, so I could actually see this plan working out :) AyChihuahua might be onto something. 2 Link to comment
AyChihuahua August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 I want him to give her a damn pep talk for once! 2 Link to comment
dtissagirl August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 Smallville did that storyline EXACTLY with Chloe and Oliver. He was kidnapped, so she traded her life for his, and surrended to the bad guys in exchange for his safety. 2 Link to comment
AyChihuahua August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 Smallville did that storyline EXACTLY with Chloe and Oliver. He was kidnapped, so she traded her life for his, and surrended to the bad guys in exchange for his safety. Arrow writers are not above, at all, stealing storylines. The whole Nyssa/Oliver-as-RAG thing was such a total Batman ripoff. But I specifically want her to tell him she did it/is doing it "to keep him safe." Because I am SO SICK of hearing Oliver spew that disrespectful bullcrap. Link to comment
dtissagirl August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 Chloe left Oliver a cheesy letter telling him that. Smallville is my favorite thing, it really is forever. 4 Link to comment
foreverevolving August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 Didn't chloe exchanged herself for Oliver because she wore Dr. (or whatever) fate head gear and saw the future? (i remember that storyline.. can't remember if it's related) Link to comment
AyChihuahua August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 Chloe left Oliver a cheesy letter telling him that. Smallville is my favorite thing, it really is forever. I watched it for the first year, but I wasn't into Lana Lang or Clark Kent. I heard it got pretty terrible later. I liked what I saw of Chloe, though. In my dream scenario, Felicity's on the comms with him after having tricked him into going on a wild goose chase while she surrenders. But it will not be perfect unless she says the words "I'm doing this to keep you safe." If it happens, I will cackle. Forever and ever, Amen. 1 Link to comment
dtissagirl August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 (edited) I only really watched seasons 8-9-10 of Smallville, and I mostly fast-forwarded through Clark. The Smallville I watched is the greatest show ever. I think they need to keep inverting the damsel trope with Felicity and Oliver, so I can totally see them doing something like kidnapping him because the villain of the week wants Felicity's hacking skills. I'm just gonna point and laugh whenever they go too close to Chloe/Ollie, because I like to keep them separated. Edited August 19, 2015 by dtissagirl Link to comment
tv echo August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 (edited) I really don't like the Shakespeare comparison. IIRC, Shakespeare's plays were either tragedies, histories, or comedies. In other words, his non-historical dramas all ended tragically. So is Arrow a tragedy or a comedy? Given the EPs' love for Joss Whedon shows, I think they're going the dark and twisted route every time. So is Oliver destined to make the same mistakes over and over again... and end up alone? I really hope not. Edited August 19, 2015 by tv echo Link to comment
Belinea August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 I really don't like the Shakespeare comparison. IIRC, Shakespeare's plays were either tragedies, histories, or comedies. In other words, his non-historical dramas all ended tragically. So is Arrow a tragedy or a comedy? So is Oliver destined to make the same mistakes over and over again... and end up alone? I really hope not. He probably will because he needs to have at least one repetitive struggle every season. ;-) And if they go with tragedy, he will end up with Laurel. Tragedy for Oliver and the viewer. 1 Link to comment
statsgirl August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 (edited) "nothing goes smoothly in Shakespeare or on our show in the course of love, and they’re going to have their fare share of challenges" Since she's talking about the course of love, I'm going to say she's referring to the comedies since the tragedies and histories are about politics and personal flaws, not love. Shakespeare's best comedies were about character growth rather than slapstick like Comedy of Errors (which I refuse to think about). Much Ado About Nothing (my favourite) was about two people trapped in their assumptions about other people and about themselves and set the pattern for many more modern stories, from Pride and Prejudice to most of George Bernard Shaw's heroines to our current romantic tropes. Twelfth Night was also about assumptions, villains demanding the world conform to their pattern, and having to hide your true self and give up love in order to be safe and do the right thing in a world that would not accept who you are (a woman alone). As You Like it again is about concealing who you really are in order to defeat the bad guys and trying to get what love you can in the only way you can. LOL that there were complaints when MG compared the show to something by Joss Whedon, and now WM is talking Shakespeare. The bar gets higher and higher. Edited August 19, 2015 by statsgirl 4 Link to comment
lemotomato August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 I really don't like the Shakespeare comparison. IIRC, Shakespeare's plays were either tragedies, histories, or comedies. In other words, his non-historical dramas all ended tragically. So is Arrow a tragedy or a comedy? . Lots of people are interpreting that mention of Shakespeare, coupled with WM saying that things would not "go smoothly", as a reference to the quote "the course of true love never did run smooth" from A Midsummer Night's Dream. 5 Link to comment
GreatAtBoats August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 (edited) It's better than the 100 times we've seen Lance family drama. Debatable. Excepting Dinah, the entire Lance family is comprised of characters, two regulars included, who have strong ties to the main character going back to his childhood and the main narrative going back to the pilot. The show is a drama. Any story arc for any character or set of characters is going to be "drama." So it only makes sense that you'd have lots of drama for two characters who are regulars and another who has been huge part of the story since the very beginning, even though two-thirds of that time she's been dead or "dead." The Smoaks as a family unit though? Not so much. And not for nothing, but we were getting Smoak Family Drama sprinkled into the script unnecessarily and really quite pathetically even when it was just Felicity on the show (see, for example: Felicity making the bomb she had to drop on Oliver about Thea's paternity -- only because she took it upon herself to go looking into his mother's affairs for some reason -- about her and her abandonment issues). Edited August 19, 2015 by GreatAtBoats Link to comment
Morrigan2575 August 19, 2015 Author Share August 19, 2015 (edited) Shakespeare's best comedies were about character growth rather than slapstick like Comedy of Errors (which I refuse to think about). Much Ado About Nothing (my favourite) was about two people trapped in their assumptions about other people and about themselves and set the pattern for many more modern stories, from Pride and Prejudice to most of George Bernard Shaw's heroines to our current romantic tropes. Twelfth Night was also about assumptions, villains demanding the world conform to their pattern, and having to hide your true self and give up love in order to be safe and do the right thing in a world that would not accept who you are (a woman alone). As You Like it again is about concealing who you really are in order to defeat the bad guys and trying to get what love you can in the only way you can. My two favorite of the Comedies. What's interesting is that there's two romances in each play. Beatrice/Benedick (the true romance, IMO) and Hero/Claudio (the fake/superficial romance) and Viola/Orsino (the true romance) and Olivia/Sebastian (the fake/superficial) I wonder if that's the compare/contrast they're aiming for with Olicity vs flashback? Edited August 19, 2015 by Morrigan2575 2 Link to comment
Velocity23 August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 Wendy Mericle talks S4 with Collider http://collider.com/arrow-season-4-producer-wendy-mericle-talks-threats-and-challenges/ Link to comment
statsgirl August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 But Carly wasn't in the pilot either. Diggle had no family or much of a background at all. I think the only time there was any family drama in the Smoak family was in 3x05 and that was resolved by the end of the episode in the scene with Felicity and her mother. In contrast, the Queen family drama was resolved only with the death of Moira, the Merlyn family drama is still awkward and the Lance family drama is not only still going strong but set to be a major part of 4A. Felicity mentioning that her father had abandoned her wasn't as necessary to driving the storyline in s2 as knowing that MM was Thea's father, although it did provide dramatic conflict and a good scene with Moira, but from spoilers it sounds like he will be a major part of s4. Good writing has threads that you can follow back, it makes things more interesting. My two favorite of the Comedies. What's interesting is that there's two romances in each play. Beatrice/Benedick (the true romance, IMO) and Hero/Claudio (the fake/superficial romance) and Viola/Orsino (the true romance) and Olivia/Sebastian (the fake/superficial) I wonder if that's the compare/contrast they're aiming for with Olicity vs flashback? Wow. That would be awesome and some really good contrasting. (But I'm afraid to get my hopes up.) 5 Link to comment
dtissagirl August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 From the Collider interview with WM: What can you say about Mr. Terrific and his presence, this season? MERICLE: Mr. Terrific, or Curtis Holt, is coming, and will be played by Echo Kellum. He’s just a genius. I don’t think we’ll see him morph into Mr. Terrific this season, but he’s somebody who brings a different tone and element, more in keeping with the lightness that we’re bringing into this season. Please be true. 1 Link to comment
Guest August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 (edited) But if he doesn't become Mr Terrific this season, that kind of removes the reason for him to interact with anyone but Felicity. I hope not, just throwing out a worst case scenario here. One of the big problems with Ray last season was that he was basically stuck with Felicity and vice versa to the detriment of both their characters. I'm happy that Felicity won't be used to help make another superhero but I also don't want her removed from all the action and stuck at PT with Curtis all the time. Edited August 19, 2015 by Guest Link to comment
dtissagirl August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 I think it really depends on how long Curtis will be kept in the dark about Felicity's side job. The fact that he's already involved in stunt scenes [per Echo Kellum posting the pic with his stunt double] gives me hope that he'll be thrown into the mix soon enough. Link to comment
statsgirl August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 Good point that he can be involved in the vigilante stuff without becoming Mr. Terrific. Roy didn't get his red mask till 2x23 or become Arsenal till 3x06. We've been told that Curtis Holt will be involved in getting Ray back to normal size. If DD does want Felicity for her computer skills, there's a role for another computer genius to play in that story. 2 Link to comment
BkWurm1 August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 Good point that he can be involved in the vigilante stuff without becoming Mr. Terrific. Roy didn't get his red mask till 2x23 or become Arsenal till 3x06. We've been told that Curtis Holt will be involved in getting Ray back to normal size. If DD does want Felicity for her computer skills, there's a role for another computer genius to play in that story. My gut reaction since learning of Mr. Terrific is they are bringing in a Felicity backup. They talked about not wanting to go the damsel route for as long as they could avoid it. Perhaps they have it plotted that she is kidnapped for several episodes thus creating the need for someone to do what she would have normally done for the team when she is gone. If not a mid 4B kidnapping, then perhaps a end of season kidnapping (or her leaving to protect Oliver but making him think she just broke up with him) Boom, Mr. Terrific pre mask can step in. Then later when they get Felicity back, he can don the mask and head out in to the field or get killed or just move to Gotham. 2 Link to comment
kismet August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 Could it be possible that mr terrific is already her back-up? He could be who TA used while she was away. It could be that she brings him to PT, rather than finds him there. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 August 19, 2015 Author Share August 19, 2015 Could it be possible that mr terrific is already her back-up? He could be who TA used while she was away. It could be that she brings him to PT, rather than finds him there. From interviews it sounds like Felicity was helping the team. I haven't seen any spoilers that indicate the team gets outside help. Link to comment
kismet August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 (edited) Re- the family drama convo.... Every one of the families have had & continue to have Drama. It's just time for the dramas to be Smoak & Diggle. We'll get back to queen, lance & merlyn again. It's sll a merry-go-round of drama. Little aspects of the dramas have all been resolved by death. Diggle's started off with one, so he might not need another. My guess is the Smoak drama will end in either DS or the Dad's death. I think it's too early to predict which one because we don't even know who he is. But my guess is a Smoak will be joining Moira, Tommy, Andy & Sara in the "dead for family drama plot resolution" party. Edited August 19, 2015 by kismet Link to comment
kismet August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 (edited) From interviews it sounds like Felicity was helping the team. I haven't seen any spoilers that indicate the team gets outside help. Nor have i either way. So anything is possible. But if FS was planning on being away from sc for a long duration of time, I could see her leaving a name behind - esp for time sensitive matters Edited August 19, 2015 by kismet Link to comment
BkWurm1 August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 So should we start the Save Donna Smoak campaign now? Cause I am NOT ok if she dies. You know it would be to save her daughter and as hard as I blubbered for Moira, I think I would lose it if Donna died in a similar manner. 6 Link to comment
statsgirl August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 Maybe Felicity's father will be the one to die. They did say they need to lighten up the show next season and few characters do it as well as Donna. Link to comment
dtissagirl August 19, 2015 Share August 19, 2015 SORRY I only like music if it's super weird and hipster and like, from Iceland. :D I think the only way we're gonna know for sure is if one of the paps catches Caity Lotz in for the 404 shoot a couple of weeks from now. And it would be super cool if she's in it, because Lexi Alexander is directing. Link to comment
kismet August 20, 2015 Share August 20, 2015 The only big Smoak family drama I see coming down the pike is the big reveal of who her father may be. And all the rumors & speculation about it have been that her father may be involved in shady things. He is either going to be one of the big bads, a small arc villain or be inadvertently doing bad things (thus needing rescue). All of these can be directly woven into OQ's & TA's story. The plot can be driven by, around, through & with her father as a one of the important characters. Everything went through Ras last season & a lot of that had to do with his relationships with MM & SL. Trust me, I love an Oliver-centric story and FS's father can be written in a way that does not draw away from that story. Am I missing something more that implies that Smoak drama is going to be overhauling the show? More of it feels like it is just another reason to produce a villain that has a personal connection to Team Arrow. I love Oliver, but there can only be so many people that have a personal vendetta against him. 1 Link to comment
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