Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

I can't see Felicity questioning whether she can support Oliver's mission. I thought it wasn't just Oliver's mission anymore? Even though she doesn't agree with Oliver at the moment, choosing Ray after a knowing him a couple of months doesn't even bear thinking about. I'm hoping they've twisted her words. 

 

And the more I think about Ray finding out Oliver's the Arrow and then wanting to take him down, the more douche-y it sounds. I pray Felicity chooses Oliver there otherwise WTF.

 

Also, I can't remember where I saw it exactly on twitter but someone said Felicity gets put in a chokehold by the meta villain in 319. And then someone else said she gets stabbed? I don't know how accurate these things are, just thought I'd mention it.

[jay741982]

I can't see Felicity questioning whether she can support Oliver's mission. I thought it wasn't just Oliver's mission anymore? Even though she doesn't agree with Oliver at the moment, choosing Ray after a knowing him a couple of months doesn't even bear thinking about. I'm hoping they've twisted her words. 

 

And the more I think about Ray finding out Oliver's the Arrow and then wanting to take him down, the more douche-y it sounds. I pray Felicity chooses Oliver there otherwise WTF.

 

Also, I can't remember where I saw it exactly on twitter but someone said Felicity gets put in a chokehold by the meta villain in 319. And then someone else said she gets stabbed? I don't know how accurate these things are, just thought I'd mention it.

Let the Felicity dies speculation begin again. And of Course Oliver would LP her especially if it wouldn't turn her evil

[catrox14]

I really wish a fan could have called MG out on ruining a season with his blatant over the top love of a character that hasn't been well liked the whole run of the series and trying to force a new character down our by isolating a very popular character with him and making it about him when it should be about her.

She's part of Team Arrow and no matter what her feelings are towards Oliver I can't see her wanting to be in Jail or letting Diggle Roy and Laurel being put in handcuffs either.

 

 

 

Ray may not be going after all of Team Arrow though, just Oliver.

[apinknightmare]

Ray may not be going after all of Team Arrow though, just Oliver.

 

The only way that Ray can go after Oliver is by outing him as the Arrow. After that, it's out of Ray's hands. He turns Oliver over as the Arrow to the cops, and whoever they find out is working with him (Felicity, Diggle - and Ray obviously knows Felicity works with him, and so does Lance) goes down with him.

Edited March 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[jay741982]

The only way that Ray can go after Oliver is by outing him as the Arrow. After that, it's out of Ray's hands. He turns Oliver over as the Arrow to the cops, and whoever they find out is working with him (Felicity, Diggle - and Ray obviously knows Felicity works with him, and so does Lance) goes down with him.

Yep and right there would be a reason that Felicity tells Ray to go Fuck himself and it's over

We see Quentin is in the Lair and he knows Roy and Felicity work with The Arrow

[catrox14]

The only way that Ray can go after Oliver is by outing him as the Arrow. After that, it's out of Ray's hands. He turns Oliver over as the Arrow to the cops, and whoever they find out is working with him (Felicity, Diggle - and Ray obviously knows Felicity works with him, and so does Lance) goes down with him.

 

Oliver will never give up Diggle, Roy, Felicity, Laurel or Quentin for that matter. I can see Oliver blowing up the Lair to protect everyone, gets rid of all the evidence as best he can.

Edited March 15, 2015 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

Yep and right there would be a reason that Felicity tells Ray to go Fuck himself and it's over

 

Yeah, that's why I just can't see her staying with him after that. If he thinks Oliver is bad enough to need to be turned in, what exactly does he think about Felicity, who he must know works with him? And if he is unaware that Felicity is the Arrow's partner, then why would Felicity stay with Ray for any reason other to not arouse suspicion while she figures out what she's going to do if/when Ray does send the cops after Oliver (and, by extension, her), since he's putting her in danger? 

Oliver will never give up Diggle, Roy, Felicity, or Laurel.  I can see Oliver blowing up the Lair to protect everyone

 

Oliver doesn't have to give Felicity up. Lance knows she works with him - she's already screwed if anyone in law enforcement finds out that Oliver is the Arrow and decides to apprehend him.

[jay741982]

Oliver will never give up Diggle, Roy, Felicity, or Laurel.  I can see Oliver blowing up the Lair to protect everyone

But in Spolier Pics Quentin is in the Arrow Lair and is looking at presumably Oliver and Felicity. He knows Felicity and Roy work with Arrow likely he knows his dumbass daughter does too. Maybe he catches Diggle as well?

[statsgirl]

I can't see Felicity agreeing with Ray to give up Oliver. She signed on to the mission twice, first in s1 and again in Midnight City when she opted to continue it when they thought Oliver was dead.

 

More likely, this is what makes her take a step back and really look at Ray and wonder if he's the man she thought he was or if he's just a reflection of her feelings for Oliver (e.g. the speech at dinner in Draw Back Your Bow). Then she decides she doesn't really want Ray as a romantic interest after all.

 

Ep 22 or 23,  Ray realizes his mistake and joins Oliver battling the Big Bad, and redeems himself in time to start the spin-off.

[catrox14]

Yeah, that's why I just can't see her staying with him after that. If he thinks Oliver is bad enough to need to be turned in, what exactly does he think about Felicity, who he must know works with him? And if he is unaware that Felicity is the Arrow's partner, then why would Felicity stay with Ray for any reason other to not arouse suspicion while she figures out what she's going to do if/when Ray does send the cops after Oliver (and, by extension, her), since he's putting her in danger? 

 

Oliver doesn't have to give Felicity up. Lance knows she works with him - she's already screwed if anyone in law enforcement finds out that Oliver is the Arrow and decides to apprehend him.

 

I think it really depends on what Oliver does that Ray uses against him. Or how Ray finds out. 

 

We know that Felicity is already at odds with Oliver so if Ray finds something, anything that seems strong enough for Felicity to believe that Oliver has crossed a line that she just can't go with. I don't know what exactly that line would be.  But personally, I would actually find it more shocking for her to side with Oliver right now vs Ray. 

 

I know that Lance knows Felicity works with him. I think Lance would protect TA personally, but he might still decide to go after Oliver because he might hold personally Oliver responsible for Sara's death just like he did before.  Who knows.  I'm just spitballing here. But ultimately if Oliver doesn't go bad, then he'll sacrifice himself for the entire team.  He'll just turn himself in. 

Edited March 15, 2015 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

But the theory is that Ray is taking Oliver down by going to the police (what else can he do to "take him down" besides expose him? Kill him?). If Felicity agrees to it, she's basically condemning herself because she's been working with the Arrow and Lance knows it. Regardless of what Oliver is doing that she does or does not agree with, I can't see Felicity being all, "Okay yeah, I think you should get this guy!" because he'd be getting her too. 

[catrox14]

I understand that's the theory.  I'm just offering some other alternate possibilities.

[wonderwall]

Felicity siding with Ray in this whole clusterfuck would butcher her character to the point of no return. It's not gonna happen.

[apinknightmare]

Felicity siding with Ray in this whole clusterfuck would butcher her character to the point of no return. It's not gonna happen.

 

Yeah, I just...I can't imagine this happening because I believe they'd write a lot of out-of-character stupid things to fit people to plot, but I cannot believe that they would have Felicity side with Ray about turning Oliver in when it would likely get her sent to jail too. I mean, taking Ray and Oliver as romantic interests out of the picture, that's just a stupid thing for her to do to herself. 

 

Although plus side for me if it did happen is I'd finally be able to turn off the TV in the 8 o'clock hour on Wednesdays, haha. 

Edited March 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

 

Felicity siding with Ray in this whole clusterfuck would butcher her character to the point of no return. It's not gonna happen.

 

I'm not sure they wouldn't do it anyway.  The EPs seem to think Ray can do no wrong and they've had little compunction with deconstructing Oliver to build up Ray.  What better way to continue to build up Ray than have Felicity side with him?

[statsgirl]

Felicity siding with Ray in this whole clusterfuck would butcher her character to the point of no return. It's not gonna happen.

As long as Ray was an option that supplied what Oliver didn't, someone who would listen to her, promote her at work, emotionally support her, and not shut her out, he was a viable option as Oliver was turning her down.  But if Ray turns bad and she still supports him, you might as well read it as Lauriver endgame.

 

Ray can recover from turning Oliver in to the police because he doesn't know Oliver and he'll learn his mistake. There's no way Felicity can recover.  The EPs may have thought she was bullet-proof when they wrote her propping Laurel back in the fall but they've learned better now, I hope.

[jay741982]

A part of me thinks Ray gets pissy cause Felicity doesn't choose a side and decides to target Oliver. Maybe he sees Felicity loves Oliver? The writers aren't making him real likeable why not make it worse?

[apinknightmare]

Ray can recover from turning Oliver in to the police because he doesn't know Oliver and he'll learn his mistake. There's no way Felicity can recover.  

 

It would also make her one of the stupidest people alive. 

[jay741982]

I'm not sure they wouldn't do it anyway.  The EPs seem to think Ray can do no wrong and they've had little compunction with deconstructing Oliver to build up Ray.  What better way to continue to build up Ray than have Felicity side with him?

Considering she seems really upset in that spolier pic of them possibly attacking Oliver in the Lair I don't think she chooses Ray over him. Like I've said before I think she would like them to co exist

[Hook75]

If Felicity is the one to tell Raywood that Oliver is the Arrow- she is dead to me!

[DrSpaceman10]

That picture with Felicity and the cop, is that in the foundry? If not, maybe it's after Ray gets hurt (in 3x18) and the cop is holding her back (ugh)?

 

Also, if Felicity gets injured in 3x19 (which is supposed to be Ray's centric episode), then it seems like they're using Felicity for Ray's man-pain (double ugh).

[Sakura12]

Apparently Laurel is crossing over to the Flash? Please Flash, take her. I don't want her on Arrow anymore :p ALSO Apparently Cisco LOVES Laurel lmao. ok

 

Ugg, I stopped watching Arrow because of Laurel, why do I have to see her on another show I watch? KC probably complained about not being part of the big crossover events and apparently whatever she wants she gets.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Sakura12

[catrox14]

A part of me thinks Ray gets pissy cause Felicity doesn't choose a side and decides to target Oliver. Maybe he sees Felicity loves Oliver? The writers aren't making him real likeable why not make it worse?

 

This is the big disconnect.  Ray isn't particularly likeable IMO but the EPs have been selling him as just this well meaning, awkward rich nerd that wants to do good things, who is vulnerable, who is sad because his wife was killed and wants to be hero; who is giving Felicity pretty much everything Oliver isn't and doesn't seem capable or willing to as in a committed relationship.  And a lot of viewers don't really like Oliver much now, if they didn't before.  Felicity is a large reason why anyone in the audience likes Ray.  

 

I guess I just don't think it's all that impossible considering all the other nutty things they've done this season. 

[apinknightmare]

That picture with Felicity and the cop, is that in the foundry? If not, maybe it's after Ray gets hurt (in 3x18) and the cop is holding her back (ugh)?

 

Also, if Felicity gets injured in 3x19 (which is supposed to be Ray's centric episode), then it seems like they're using Felicity for Ray's man-pain (double ugh).

 

 

Yeah, it seems to be in the foundry. It looks like Felicity and Oliver walk down there and Lance and some SCPD officers are waiting for him. Felicity's wearing the same outfit in the both the pic where she's in the lair with Oliver and Lance and when she's getting choked or whatever by that police officer. 

[Guest]

Also, if Felicity gets injured in 3x19 (which is supposed to be Ray's centric episode), then it seems like they're using Felicity for Ray's man-pain (double ugh).

 

If 319 is the episode where Oliver presumably gets arrested, Felicity getting hurt while she's with Ray just shows what happens when Oliver's not around to help. Basically, Ray sucks.

[jay741982]

If Felicity is the one to tell Raywood that Oliver is the Arrow- she is dead to me!

I don't think she does there is a pic from the next episode I believe that shows Oliver and Ray in their suits but Ray has his helmet off and he's right in front of Oliver. Maybe Ray is so awesome that even with the hood on he can tell it's Oliver Queen when no one else can at first(barf)

That picture with Felicity and the cop, is that in the foundry? If not, maybe it's after Ray gets hurt (in 3x18) and the cop is holding her back (ugh)?

 

Also, if Felicity gets injured in 3x19 (which is supposed to be Ray's centric episode), then it seems like they're using Felicity for Ray's man-pain (double ugh).

It would be for Oliver's too.

[statsgirl]

Maybe Ray gets angry at the Arrow and puts a tracker on Oliver during their fight without Felicity's knowledge. He tracks him and sees that he's going into the foundry.  He then tells the police and they catch Oliver and Felicity down there (which would mean that Felicity didn't quit).

 

Has the bonus of reprising The Calm when the bad guy puts a tracker on Oliver and he attributed not noticing to his date with Felicity.  In this scenario, he still wouldn't notice so it wouldn't be Felicity's fault.

[catrox14]

Maybe Ray gets angry at the Arrow and puts a tracker on Oliver during their fight without Felicity's knowledge. He tracks him and sees that he's going into the foundry.  He then tells the police and they catch Oliver and Felicity down there (which would mean that Felicity didn't quit).

 

Has the bonus of reprising The Calm when the bad guy puts a tracker on Oliver and he attributed not noticing to his date with Felicity.  In this scenario, he still wouldn't notice so it wouldn't be Felicity's fault.

 

I can buy this. 

[Starfish35]

Wow, well I'm not liking anything I'm hearing. :( Laurel on Flash? Huge no. Ray going after Oliver? No. SCPD getting into the Arrowcave? No. Not liking any of this.

Crap.

Why do they always do this? They put out something that has me feeling somewhat better about the show (the Dyla wedding pics) and then they immediately follow it up with something that just sucks away what tiny little bit of enthusiasm that I had managed to muster up.

[apinknightmare]

I wonder when Ray decides to go after the Arrow/Oliver? If it's in 3x17, when he and Oliver have their initial Arrow vs. Atom squabble, then I suppose he either doesn't go through with he threat or Felicity manages to talk him out of it, since it seems like they're still together in 3x18. If it's in 3x19, then it seems like there's an imposter pretending to be Arrow (per lemotomato's post) - maybe riling up the city to turn the tide against Arrow? In that case the only thing Ray can do that would bring Oliver down is to out Oliver as the Arrow, since the cops are already after his alter ego. Would Ray actually do it, or is it going to be one of those things where he stands down because he realizes Felicity loves him and doesn't want to hurt her, therefore making him the ultimate NICE GUY? 

Edited March 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

When does the Arrow lookalike show up? Could that be a reason Ray turns on Oliver? I can't think of anything the Arrow's done this year that would make anyone turn on him. He showed up to save the Glades again and made a rousing speech. Unless Ra's sends out some e-mail alert that he'll take out Starling unless the Arrow is turned in.

 

The Foundary is the least secure superhero lair on the planet. Some clubgoer could get lost in Verdant and find that place. The cop probably just tripped and landed down there.

[SleepDeprived]

IIRC, the Fake Arrow vs Arrow pic that SA posted was during the last days of filming of 3x17. So, I think that's when the scene of Palmer telling Felicity that he has to stop the Arrow comes from. He'll have that confrontation with Oliver as we saw from the released stills but I think he'll back down. I bet this is that "rough patch" that Felicity and Palmer's relationship hits. That Felicity supports the Arrow and Palmer wants to stop him. He and Oliver will probably come to an understanding and Felicity and Palmer will go on to Central City to get his suit upgraded. I don't think Palmer will have anything to do with Quentin and the SCPD going after Team Arrow/learning of the Foundry. Whoever is attacking the Mayor's office in 3x18 and injures Palmer will most likely be the reason the SCPD turns up the heat against Oliver and his Team.

 

From what I can remember about the teaser clips shown at Paley (it's so weird that the Flash clips made more of an impact with me than much of the Arrow clips when I'm not even half as invested in The Flash compared to Arrow), the scene where Felicity is getting choked out and the scene where Quentin is in the foundry are two different scenes.

 

Felicity gets choked out by Deathbolt, the metahuman in 3x19, I think. Then there was a quick scene of Palmer in his suit saying "Keep away from her," or something to that effect. The scene with Quentin and SCPD in the Foundry has him turning around and saying "I finally got you, you son of a bitch," or something to that effect, that was quickly followed with a clip of Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle coming down the Foundry steps in surprise.

 

And Shado was definitely in the flashbacks, with a new hairstyle and stylish, definitely non-island clothes so I don't really think it's a hallucination. Oliver even calls her by name.

 

Also, for the Flash clips, Laurel mock-whispers to Cisco that she's the Black Canary, which results in Cisco exclaiming that he loves her. So, she is definitely taking to heart the name that her father very derisively called her as at Sara's grave.

[apinknightmare]

So, maybe the Arrow lookalike is the one who attacks the mayor's office and injures Palmer? 

 

@SleepDeprived - thank you for the recap! Some people on Tumblr were talking about Felicity getting stabbed - did you see that, or did she just get choked?

Edited March 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[SleepDeprived]

^ Yeah, maybe. If he gets away/Oliver isn't able to take him down in 3x17. Fake Arrow could be a ploy by Ra's to make the Arrow Public Enemy #1. The dude was definitely blonde, though, like lemotomato said and no one we've seen before, I think.

[calliope1975]

And Shado was definitely in the flashbacks, with a new hairstyle and stylish, definitely non-island clothes so I don't really think it's a hallucination. Oliver even calls her by name.

 

Also, for the Flash clips, Laurel mock-whispers to Cisco that she's the Black Canary, which results in Cisco exclaiming that he loves her. So, she is definitely taking to heart the name that her father very derisively called her as at Sara's grave.

 

WTF about Shado? Unless she's some sort of clone, which is stupid, how/why would she still be alive? I'm beyond tired of these writers continuing to kill off characters, then going, oops, it would be cool if they were around to do xxx; let's bring them back. No. No. Noooooo. She was shot in the head, at close range. Nooooooo.

 

I'm just going to leave an eye roll at that second statement. You're better than this, Cisco. I can only assume he's talking about Sara.

[apinknightmare]

Shado cannot be alive because WTF was last season for then? Oliver would've known she was alive if he saw her in Hong Kong and surely he would've mentioned that to Slade before he stabbed Moira? When he threatened everyone Oliver cared about? They better be going with some clone-type shit to explain that.

Edited March 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

I Know! This is Shado's evil twin Shae-do, she's out to get Oliver and rape him so she can have a son...because Comics!

[apinknightmare]

From the full trailer, I wonder if Quentin saying "I got you now, you son of a bitch" is an editing trick, and he's just kind of talking to himself, not saying it as Oliver and Felicity and Diggle walk downstairs. 

 

And who was kissing? Was it Thea and Roy? I couldn't tell. I couldn't make out a lot of that, haha

[wonderwall]

And who was kissing? Was it Thea and Roy? I couldn't tell. I couldn't make out a lot of that, haha

 

It's Thea and Roy :D

[apinknightmare]

It's Thea and Roy :D

 

Awwww, yay. 

 

But you know what happened to the last guy Thea banged. 

 

RIP DJ Douchebag

[SleepDeprived]

@SleepDeprived - thank you for the recap! Some people on Tumblr were talking about Felicity getting stabbed - did you see that, or did she just get choked?

 

I don't remember a clip of Felicity getting stabbed at all (and I think I would remember that since she's my fave) but it could've been something really quick that others caught and I didn't? My sister doesn't remember anything like that, either. I remember the choking scene very vividly, though, and Palmer's white-knighting moment afterward because I very nearly lost an eyeball when it rolled to the back of my head. Because, of course, it would be him to come to her aid.

 

I don't know what to say about the Shado thing. Because WTF was the only thing in my head at the time.

[Starfish35]

What is this that Deadline is saying about Oliver having a "more 'defeated' and 'introspective' interpretation going into future seasons"?

[DrSpaceman10]

DiD-ing Felicity for Ray: 

 

[apinknightmare]

Regarding this in the SPOILERS ONLY thread:

 

 

It was also revealed that the characterization of Oliver Queen/Arrow will be changed drastically by season’s end, with a more “defeated” and “introspective” interpretation going into future seasons.

 

These outlets seem to really be running with some of the quotes from that panel, because didn't SA say that Oliver was introspective and defeated in the back half (or maybe he said third) of the season? He didn't say anything about it going into further seasons, did he? Not that it would surprise me if he did, but that's not what I heard.

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, I'm just catching up on things here, but a lot of media outlets seem to be a little sloppy in their reporting from Paley (understandably so--it's a lot of info to absorb and report quickly), and either the Deadline person misunderstood, or just had a little oops, because I think they might have meant future "episodes" not "seasons."

Edited March 15, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[calliope1975]

What is this that Deadline is saying about Oliver having a "more 'defeated' and 'introspective' interpretation going into future seasons"?

 

These outlets seem to really be running with some of the quotes from that panel, because didn't SA say that Oliver was introspective and defeated in the back half (or maybe he said third) of the season? He didn't say anything about it going into further seasons, did he? Not that it would surprise me if he did, but that's not what I heard.

 

I just saw this on Tumblr, and it sounded like Oliver was going to be introspective and defeated in the back half of this season, but it would push him to open up more. Not that it would carry on to future seasons. Because a defeated hero is what everyone wants to watch. Journalism! 

[SleepDeprived]

Oh, I just remembered an interesting 0.5 second clip! Nyssa looking hurt/mad and attempting to strike Ra's with a blade. Ra's catches the blade with his hand, though. So, I guess that's the clip from the 3x16 promo where Ra's immerses his bloody hand in the LP. I wonder if we'll see his hand instantly heal or, if my spec that the LP has gone stale on Ra's comes true, it's not going to get healed and he's showing Nyssa how the mystical waters isn't working so well for him, anymore, which is why he needs Oliver to take over.

[Carrie Ann]

I'm going with some sort of hallucination for the Shado thing--or she had a twin sister no one ever knew about or something, because S2 makes no sense if she lived.

 

Also, damn, everything about that trailer just made me feel dread and unease. I have no hope for 316-320, and if 320 isn't the bottomest rock bottom in terms of darkness for the season/Oliver, with things turning around dramatically for the last three episodes, then I don't see myself coming back next season.

 

Finally, just for the record, we have had ANOTHER claim of the show never.being.the.same, apparently after the end of this season, according to AK. So just in 3B alone, we have gamechangers in 315, 318, 319, 320, and 323. Not sure there's a game left to change, at that point.

[apinknightmare]

Do you happen to remember who it is that rescues Laurel from the gunfire (I think) on the street? Is it Oliver or Nyssa? Seems like someone shot an arrow with a cable up to lift them.

[statsgirl]

The only gamechanger I want is to change back to O/D/F, which is never going to happen.

 

Now that I've seen the trailer, I'm worried for Roy. Getting kissed by your true love is the death knell on shows like this. Please live, Roy. I don't want the Team Arrow to be Oliver, Diggle, Laurel, Thea and Felicity.  I'm all for badass heroines but this ratio too high on women. 

 

The "I got you now you son of a bitch" seems like Quentin is saying it to Oliver after he and his men have already looked around the lair and decided that it's the Arrow's and Oliver Queen's.

 

I just can't get over the stupidity of this whole Ra's al Ghul shit.  Not only did they just play the "how will everyone go on without Oliver" in 310 - 312 and we knew he was coming back just like we know he's coming back now, how in the hell did the LoA get to be so scary if they determine people's fate by olde tyme prophecy?    It's stupid and it's boring.