Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

Is Barrowman this tall?

 

It's tough to gauge how tall that person is considering Oliver's all sprawled out and being dragged on the ground and whatnot. 

 

 

At least there's a shot of Roy for "a hero rises".

 

Way to look on the bright side!

[BkWurm1]

Oliver seemed pretty stiff to me, like he's already frozen.  Maybe they really are going the actual "dead" route. 

[apinknightmare]

Oliver seemed pretty stiff to me, like he's already frozen.  Maybe they really are going the actual "dead" route. 

 

I don't know - his hand changes position from the close up to the scene where he's on the death sled. Maybe he's only mostly dead. Maybe that guy is knocking Miracle Max's door.

[dtissagirl]

If it's Malcolm that revives/saves/lazaruspits Oliver, what the hell is his endgame telling Team Arrow he died? Dead Oliver means Ra's still coming after him for the Undertaking.

Is Malcolm gonna try to brainwash Oliver into the son he never had in Tommy? 'Cause that would work for me for like, half an episode max.

[BkWurm1]

Maybe he's only mostly dead. Maybe that guy is knocking Miracle Max's door.

 

 

At least we know saving him comes with a noble reason. I mean, true love! You heard him! You could not ask for a more noble cause than that.

[wonderwall]

At least we know saving him comes with a noble reason. I mean, true love! You heard him! You could not ask for a more noble cause than that.

Wait, what? :p Am I missing something? What's this noble reason? And when was it stated?

[Chaser]

Death cannot stop true love. All it can do is delay it for a while.

 

Seriously, The Princess Bride is the most quotable movie ever. I will like anything that references it.

Edited January 9, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[apinknightmare]

If it's Malcolm that revives/saves/lazaruspits Oliver, what the hell is his endgame telling Team Arrow he died? Dead Oliver means Ra's still coming after him for the Undertaking.

Is Malcolm gonna try to brainwash Oliver into the son he never had in Tommy? 'Cause that would work for me for like, half an episode max.

 

If it's not Malcolm, then how would he get the sword? Did he get the sword while the other person did whatever they did? Is he working with Maseo or Nyssa or someone? WHAT IS GOING ON

 

Brainwashed Oliver would also work for me for 20 minutes, maybe 21.

Wait, what? :p Am I missing something? What's this noble reason? And when was it stated?

 

We're talking about The Princess Bride, sorry!

[BkWurm1]

If it's not Malcolm, then how would he get the sword? Did he get the sword while the other person did whatever they did? Is he working with Maseo or Nyssa or someone? WHAT IS GOING ON

 

I think we'll find that after some time passed and Oliver didn't return that Malcolm visited the site of the fight.  At this point I don't think he has anything to do with Oliver's body being moved.  If it wasn't for the line from Nyssa about envying him 'cause he was going to see Sara before her, I would say it was Nyssa that orchestrates his rescue ...though if they go the mostly dead route then maybe she'd assume he'd just pop in, say hey to Sara, and then be on the express train back to mortality? 

[apinknightmare]

I think we'll find that after some time passed and Oliver didn't return that Malcolm visited the site of the fight.  At this point I don't think he has anything to do with Oliver's body being moved.  If it wasn't for the line from Nyssa about envying him 'cause he was going to see Sara before her, I would say it was Nyssa that orchestrates his rescue ...though if they go the mostly dead route then maybe she'd assume he'd just pop in, say hey to Sara, and then be on the express train back to mortality? 

 

Ah, good point. Although "some time" would have to be three days, right? Or maybe TA only starts to worry after three days and finds out he's dead later. Also, in addition to shirtless fighting being League tradition, is it also tradition to leave bodies lying around? I guess Maseo has to dispose of him but ends up somehow reviving him instead (if we're going the route of him double-crossing Ra's) or Ra's knows he's still alive and has him tended to or resurrected or whatever?

[Menrva]

I love The Princess Bride so much. I think it's one of my most favorite movies ever. 

 

Sometimes I wish Arrow was more like The Princess Bride. Seriously, look how many lines already are so applicable? 

 

 

[calliope1975]

I'm hoping it's Maseo. Since he just randomly popped up in the LoA, I'm guessing he's there for a reason. I can see Malcolm creeping nearby when the fight occurred and stealing the sword. Mostly, I want it to be anything other than a brainwashing story. 

[Morrigan2575]

In the Promo Malcolm says Ra's has a tradition of leaving behind the weapon he uses to kill his opponent as a honor to their death...something like that.

So he finds the sword with Oliver's blood on it, gives t to TA and says OQ is dead.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I really wish it's Maseo who helps Oliver, mostly because I do not want Oliver to be in debt to Malcolm or Ra's. All the bonus points if Tatsu opens that door. Nyssa would be aces too, but Katana >>>>>>>.

If Malcolm finds the sword and just assumes the LOA disposed of the body, and Team Arrow just takes him at his word... 1. Malcolm is dumb for not making sure there's a body; 2. Team Arrow is dumber for believing him. Ah, writing for plot. How I hate thee.

[ban1o]

From that promo I don't think malcolm saves Ollie I think it's Maseo.

[statsgirl]

From that split second shot of the guy dragging Oliver's body, it seems more like Karl Yune's body shape than John Barrowman's. But given that the identity is hidden by the clothes, it could just as easily be a random extra.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Yeah, I'm starting to think that's not Malcolm with frozen Oliver. I'm suddenly reminded of that opening scene in The Climb where Oliver gets shot at with an arrow and he immediately says, "Merlyn" but it turns out to be LOA dudes. I think we're meant to think Malcolm, but it'll end up being someone else. I was trying to judge from the stance, the built and even the walk of that person with Oliver. I briefly entertained the idea that it might be Tatsu/Katana, that she's still alive. But that person looks like a guy to me. So Maseo seems to be a more logical choice. Or it could be random errand boy sent to get Oliver and Tatsu still ends up opening that door.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I really wish it's Maseo who helps Oliver, mostly because I do not want Oliver to be in debt to Malcolm or Ra's. All the bonus points if Tatsu opens that door. Nyssa would be aces too, but Katana >>>>>>>.

If Malcolm finds the sword and just assumes the LOA disposed of the body, and Team Arrow just takes him at his word... 1. Malcolm is dumb for not making sure there's a body; 2. Team Arrow is dumber for believing him. Ah, writing for plot. How I hate thee.

 

So, here are the options:

 

1. Malcolm finds Oliver and revives him, then for whatever reason lies to the team about him being dead (does he just leave Oliver somewhere alone while he delivers this news, or does he have an accomplice?) - and the League is stupid for not checking for a body or

2. Someone from the League is sent by Ra's to bury Oliver, and revives him and lies to Ra's about it and Malcolm finds the sword but no body, assuming he's been buried or

3. Someone from the League is sent by Ra's to retrieve Oliver's body and revive him and Malcolm finds the sword but no body, assuming he's been buried or

4. The person who rescues him is neither League nor Malcolm and everyone is stupid for not looking for a body or 

5. The League goes looking for the body and realizes he's gone therefore unleashing holy hell upon Starling during Feb sweeps or

5 1/2. This is all a vertigo-fueled dream sequence or

6. It's Thea in her whatever-fueled drug haze not knowing what she's doing (and also growing about two feet taller) or

6 3/4. Who the hell knows

Edited January 9, 2015 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

So, here are the options:

 

1. Malcolm finds Oliver and revives him, then for whatever reason lies to the team about him being dead (does he just leave Oliver somewhere alone while he delivers this news, or does he have an accomplice?) 

Yao Fei left Oliver alone in the cave while he went to do his thing with Fyers, and  you know how this show loves it's parallels.

 

The League probably assumed that whoever Ra's kills stays dead.  And it's not their mountain so no worries about tidying it up.

[apinknightmare]

Yao Fei left Oliver alone in the cave while he went to do his thing with Fyers, and  you know how this show loves it's parallels.

 

The League probably assumed that whoever Ra's kills stays dead.  And it's not their mountain so no worries about tidying it up.

 

The thing that makes me wary of this is that Ra's didn't go for the kill shot - he stabbed him through the lung. Why go for the lung when you can go for the heart? And then he kicked him off of what seemed to be a very short cliff given the thump we hear of Oliver hitting the ground shortly after he falls. I know Ra's has got to be a cocky bastard, but you don't make it that far in life by assuming people die. YOU KILL THEM. DEAD. And then YOU MAKE SURE THEY'RE DEAD. And then you BURY THEM IN THE FROZEN GROUND WHERE THEY CAN'T DIG THEMSELVES OUT.

[Chaser]

Let's be real. Ra's should have taken his head. But headless is hard to come back from.

 

I don't think it was Malcolm. Sending him to Ra's and then following him to make sure he lives sounds a bit strange. And he sounded rather please with himself when he told Team Arrow. He may have wanted Ra's dead more, but he isn't mourning Oliver.

 

I would like it too be Maseo/Katana. Don't know how Katana would fit in, but I'm hoping she plays a big part in the back half.

Edited January 9, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Sunshine]

I think it's Maseo, possibly taking him to Katana. Logical (Ha!) way to get to the Hong Kong flashbacks.

[ban1o]

Like a few others I think Malcolm will actually think Oliver is dead as well and isn't lying when he's telling team Arrow.

[wonderwall]

Episode description for episode 11 is out...

 

Yayyy Felicity's being pushed into the background! Ugh I'm not here for Felicity's screentime being dedicated to her being impressed by Ray. Smh

 

Yep, I'm becoming less and less excited with this season. Why is it that whenever Felicity's mentioned, Ray's name is always in the same sentence? It's just so annoying. Can the writers please give Felicity something that's her own and not something like being support for broody guys who want to be heroes? 

Edited January 9, 2015 by wonderwall

[ban1o]

I knew Team Arrow would try to stop Laurel lol. But then she`ll show them how worthy she is or something and how she`s a true warrior.

[Chaser]

Does saying Arsenal instead of Roy make him a real boy? LOL I don't know why I'm so amused by that.

 

Diggle and Arsenal think Laurel is going to get herself killed but she suits up with them. I knew Diggle didn't like Laurel. 

 

Not here for Felicity playing support to Ray's story. I hope he blows his butt up. 

 

I miss Oliver.

Edited January 9, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[apinknightmare]

I'm not familiar with Brick from the comics - does he have minions or something? Why are Roy, Diggle, Laurel, Ray, the SCPD and Felicity's brains not enough to stop him? 

 

And I'm not too worried about Felicity - one sentence in a summary isn't enough to tell basically anything - I'm guessing Ray fighting with the SCPD is where those BTS pics PB posted were from?

[ban1o]

Does saying Arsenal instead of Roy make him a real boy? LOL I don't know why I'm so amused by that.

 

They`ve done that since they gave him the name in episode 6 lol. I find it funny too.

Edited January 9, 2015 by ban1o

[wonderwall]

I knew Team Arrow would try to stop Laurel lol. But then she`ll show them how worthy she is or something and how she`s a true warrior.

Ughhhhhhh this is just frustrating.

 

I just hope that Roy and Diggle don't play second fiddle to Laurel and her 'crusade' whatever that is. I don't even understand her motivation for fighting crime? Does anyone else get it or is it just me not understanding Laurel's motivation? I mean I understand her motivation to take down Sara's killer, but not becoming a vigilante.

[ban1o]

Also this pretty much confirms Team Arrow doesn't tell Thea in episode 10 since she's still Merlyn's BFF apparently.

[dtissagirl]

It's so cute how they really really want us to believe Oliver is super dead for realsies and the show must go on.

Oh hai, that's a Queen song, I accidentally made a funny, Sorry.

[apinknightmare]

Ughhhhhhh this is just frustrating.

 

I just hope that Roy and Diggle don't play second fiddle to Laurel and her 'crusade' whatever that is. I don't even understand her motivation for fighting crime? Does anyone else get it or is it just me not understanding Laurel's motivation? I mean I understand her motivation to take down Sara's killer, but not becoming a vigilante.

 

She feels a fire or something, and apparently there isn't an ointment that can cure it. When she asked Oliver to train her in Corto Maltese, she told him that taking a bat to that wife beater was the first time she didn't feel that fire. I guess she wants to do it to channel her overwhelming, burning HELLFIRE RAGE, and this is her "other way" of dealing with it. I guess that's supposed to be her motivation - seems like she's becoming an adrenaline junkie to take place of the booze and the pills. And then Ted Grant told her that swinging at her sister's killer was a target she wasn't ever going to hit - that she needed to train for herself. So...I guess she's done trying to kill the person who killed Sara? IDK. 

That's the first time I've ever FFed to get TO Laurel's parts, bless.

[ban1o]

I'm not familiar with Brick from the comics - does he have minions or something? Why are Roy, Diggle, Laurel, Ray, the SCPD and Felicity's brains not enough to stop him? 

Because without Oliver they are all powerless,  lol

Edited January 9, 2015 by ban1o

[Chaser]

I'm guessing Minions because Brick seemed to be giving a pep talk in the promo.

 

She fights, she fails, she Triumphs! All those who doubted will now recognize her true strength as a fighter and as a leader. A perfectly acceptable story if told over three seasons, not three episodes. Told over three episodes she is really Mary Sue Unicorn.

 

I still hope they tell Thea.

[ban1o]

 

I still hope they tell Thea.

I guess it's possible they already told  her and she stays around him and starts to manipulate him or something. That could be interesting, but I kinda doubt that's the case.

Edited January 9, 2015 by ban1o

[dtissagirl]

Begin episode.

"Hello, Barry? It's Felicity. So, as I told you last week when I called you to look for the body, Oliver is dead for real, and now there's a dude here in Starling running circles around the police, could you maybe help us out-- what? You're already here? He's in custody already? Thanks so much, Barry, you're swell. My best to Caitlin and Cisco. Bye!"

End episode.

[apinknightmare]

I guess it's possible they already told  her and she stays around him and starts to manipulate him or something. That could be interesting.

 

Or they could tell her at the end of 3x10 and she either knows and goes along with him and blossoms into the mini Moira we all know she can become and manipulates him/ RUINS HIS LIFE.

[wonderwall]

I guess it's possible they already told  her and she stays around him and starts to manipulate him or something. That could be interesting, but I doubt that's the case.

That would actually be really amazing.You know what I would like? Felicity and Thea working together to take down Merlyn. Obviously it'd be subtle that the audience barely notices where Thea goes along with what Malcolm says but is also manipulating him... I wouldn't mind seeing their plans come to fruition by the end of the season.

 

I only say Felicity because apparently she's gonna have a lot of screentime with Thea? and this would be so much more interesting than felicity lying to Thea about Oliver. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

That would actually be really amazing.You know what I would like? Felicity and Thea working together to take down Merlyn. Obviously it'd be subtle that the audience barely notices where Thea goes along with what Malcolm says but is also manipulating him... I wouldn't mind seeing their plans come to fruition by the end of the season.

 

I only say Felicity because apparently she's gonna have a lot of screentime with Thea? and this would be so much more interesting than felicity lying to Thea about Oliver. 

 

In order for Thea and Felicity to have screen time together, she probably wouldn't leave with him. Which means she probably won't be manipulating him from inside his inner circle, which makes the life ruining much less sneaky, but I'll take it.

[wonderwall]

I suppose I'll see how episode 10 plays out before I judge episode 11. This might be the episode I skip in season 3b, much like how episode 6 was the one in season 3a. 

 

Also, I still don't care for Ray, at all. If he died tomorrow I wouldn't care. So I'm not here for Ray's arc either. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by wonderwall

[NumberCruncher]

Although it's only one-line in the synopsis, it certainly hints that Felicity is going to snuggle up to Ray. She sees a whole new side...*barfs*

And as per usual, I couldn't be more disinterested in episodes centered around Ray, Roy, and Laurel...*yawns*

I can't decide if I like the Malcolm/Thea tease. On one hand, it's a storyline not involving Starling City's newest heroes *eyeroll*, but I'm also not here for Thea being manipulated by her father.

I'm seriously wondering if they expect me to enjoy this show. How did we get here?

[apinknightmare]

Although it's only one-line in the synopsis, it certainly hints that Felicity is going to snuggle up to Ray. She sees a whole new side...*barfs*

 

Based on the BTS pics Paul Blackthorne posted on his FB or Instagram (I can't remember which), I think she's going to see that he can actually fight - there were shots of him looking disheveled and I think he had a few cuts on his face or something (IIRC, Laurel was there too). I don't think her seeing a new side of him is necessarily bad news, even though I'm sure they'll hook up in some way eventually.

 

As long as Oliver's dead, I'm okay with her seeing new sides of Ray as long as all of those sides are fully clothed and keep their hands and lips to themselves. After he comes back I guess all bets are off.

[calliope1975]

Nothing in that episode description makes me want to watch. I see we still have Thea being taken advantage of by her oh so loving father. I swear, if Arsenal (snort) and Digg have to ask Laurel to help out... And I'm not here for Ray either. I'm sure he's some amazing fighter, blah, blah, blah. 

 

Great start to the new year!

[Morrigan2575]

Have to admit, I'm rather perplexed. They spent an entire season building Sara up in present day and flashbacks. We got to see a well developed flawed/tragic hero character that was a true equal to Oliver. Then they killed her off and are replacing her with a character they can barely dedicate a 3 episode arc to.

Laurel's heroes journey is no different then her addiction arc, it's a cliffs notes version of an actual storyline.

I just don't get it.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[jay741982]

The only one I want having their lips and hands all over Felicity is Oliver. And F you MG for making Felicity s storyline bout Ray! What the Fuck is his problem?

[Orion]

I think I've reached a level of zen with this show. I just can't get worked up about it anymore. They've lost me. I don't care about anything happening coming up. Laurel as BC ridiculous, Felicity propping up every questionable character, stupid.

 

Go for it show. Keep aiming for that ditch and I'll sit over here and watch Agent Carter. Let me know when you want to get back to decent storytelling. Maybe I can come back from the apathy you have driven me to in 9 episodes.

 

In the meantime I'll read what you guys have to say.

[NumberCruncher]

I think I've reached a level of zen with this show. I just can't get worked up about it anymore. They've lost me. I don't care about anything happening coming up. Laurel as BC ridiculous, Felicity propping up every questionable character, stupid.

Go for it show. Keep aiming for that ditch and I'll sit over here and watch Agent Carter. Let me know when you want to get back to decent storytelling. Maybe I can come back from the apathy you have driven me to in 9 episodes.

In the meantime I'll read what you guys have to say.

I'm not leaving yet (though they're trying to run me off). I'm hoping if I can make it through the next 3 episodes, I'm cautiously optimistic that things might be back to normal. Oliver will presumably be back and the show will have gotten Superheropalozza, starring Starling City's most boring crimefighters, out of their system. The back half of S3 will be the ultimate test of my loyalty. If the upcoming stuff with Ra's rocks my world and I don't have to deal with Felicity slobbering all over the stalker, I'll find a way to power through the rest.

[statsgirl]

Didn't Felicity already see the whole new side to Ray when she saw the suit, heard his speech about wanting to save the city and asked "Why does this keep happening to me?"

 

They need to get Ray interacting with characters who aren't called Felicity.  Maybe that would make him into a real boy.

 

 

Diggle and Arsenal think Laurel is going to get herself killed but she suits up with them. I knew Diggle didn't like Laurel. 

I have to admit, Diggle's smarter than me.  He's found a wholly different way to get rid of Laurel.

 

 

She feels a fire or something, and apparently there isn't an ointment that can cure it. When she asked Oliver to train her in Corto Maltese, she told him that taking a bat to that wife beater was the first time she didn't feel that fire. I guess she wants to do it to channel her overwhelming, burning HELLFIRE RAGE, and this is her "other way" of dealing with it. I guess that's supposed to be her motivation - seems like she's becoming an adrenaline junkie to take place of the booze and the pills. And then Ted Grant told her that swinging at her sister's killer was a target she wasn't ever going to hit - that she needed to train for herself. So...I guess she's done trying to kill the person who killed Sara? IDK. 

We called it months ago  -- she's replacing the addiction to drugs and alcohol with an addiction to beating people up and kicking them when they're down, not to mention twisting their arms when they're in the hospital.  At least it's consistent... Laurel is power-tripping again.

 

Now if someone could just explain to me how this makes her a superhero?

Edited January 9, 2015 by statsgirl

[jay741982]

Statesville that's my biggest problem with Ray besides the creepy he's only in scenes with Felicity!!

[Carrie Ann]

Unless the "new side" of Ray has something to do with him getting a little power-hungry or over-confident or something like that, I have no interest, and I don't see how anything "heroic" about him could be new to Felicity. Ugh, I am dreading the rest of this season, until the last few episodes when they try to pull it all together in what will assuredly be an over-stuffed, poorly-paced mess. I don't know when I got so pessimistic about this show, but it sucks.