Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Trisha]

15 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

But, Oliver, I'm pretty sure you have a very long list of things you should be more concerned about than Thea making things right with Susan. Oh, look, there's one of them, walking into your office right now.

This sneak peek (along with the promo pics) makes me think Oliver and Susan really are going to reconcile -- even if it's just for a few episodes. If that happens, Oliver is going to look even more like a moron and I didn't think that was possible. At the very least, there should be a scene of him questioning Susan about her investigation and asking her if anything about their relationship was real, but I'm not hopeful...

[Sunshine]

So, if Thea refuses to help reporter get her job back, is Ollie going to ask for her resignation?

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

So, if Thea refuses to help reporter get her job back, is Ollie going to ask for her resignation?

If he makes it through impeachment I can see this happening. Especially if she actually does follow through on bribing that councilman. 

[statsgirl]

I think Oliver reconciing with Susan might just make th next episodes unwatchable for me. Not because he's with someone who is not his OTP but because he is just so unbelievably stupid. Forget Olicity, how can you root for someone who doesn't seem to have two brain cells together.

It looks like the only watchable part of the episode is going to be Thea and Felicity conniving to save Oliver's idiot ass.  Which is going to make Thea quitting all that much worse.

[lemotomato]

Oliver is just irredeemably stupid at this point. 

[Angel12d]

They are doing the most in (inadvertently) making Oliver unlikeable. I'm sure he's supposed to come across like he's doing the right thing and showing trust in people but he's looking more and more like a moron. What a shame. I don't want to dislike Oliver but they're making it really difficult right now.

Asking his sister to make things right with the woman who has legitimately done everything wrong is a whole other level of dumb. It's showing loyalty to the wrong person, too.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Angel12d

[Midnight Lullaby]

Does Oliver want people to out him? Is this a cry for help? Because he is sort of trying to cover up the mess on the mayor side of things but wants Thea to undo what she did that would lead to Susan being able to out him as GA creating an even bigger mess.

[insomniadreams88]

6 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

So, if Thea refuses to help reporter get her job back, is Ollie going to ask for her resignation?

I really hope not. I want to see Thea make a decision herself about her future, especially since whatever happens is probably going to be the reason she's not around for the next few episodes. But it's definitely possible. 

[Chaser]

It's just so weird that he isn't the least bit concerned about the threat Reporter poses or her motives. Or given what she knows that she could have been the leak. It's like he is ignoring it completely.

[finnaire]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

I still find it inexplicable that Oliver trusts Tinah so much after only knowing her for about a month. He barely vetted her - one phone call to the CCPD captain and a cursory background check that didn't even turn up her real name. After Evelyn, you'd think he'd be more careful.

Same goes for Susan (ditto to everything that's already been said about her).*

(* Same for Samantha last season, who Oliver introduced to the Arrowcave and his entire team, just because she was the mother of his son, and despite both the 10-year passage of time and her proven history of deception.)

There's optimism and there's blind ignorance. I really hope that both of these characters are revealed to be working with Prometheus, although I realize it's more likely with Susan than with Tinah (the best evah sidekick).

He claimed to have "vetted" Rene. And, what do we know about him? Dishonorably discharged, wife's a druggie,   had a shoot out in his apartment in front of his kid where he murdered a guy. What, exactly, makes this guy trustworthy or qualified for the job? I would actually like him better if he was just some stray dog they picked up on the street, didn't know anything about and integrated slowly.

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think this is an unfortunate issue of an aging show. While.it was going/developing/world building it was necessary to setup relationships and introductions. Now, the world has been built, they have their primary relationships established (even if they ignore them now) so now there's no need to 'waste' time on inter personal stuff when they can spend more time on action, plotty plot, etc.

The same was true, IMO or Smallville S9/S10, where the show just relied on comics make Lois/Clois happen. 

Ultimately I think it comes down to laziness

But, that should be the point of new characters. Instead of dumping a whole new cast on us at once where there are too many to get to know and so we don't care about any of them, they should be introducing them slowly through their own storylines. They should be creating connections "organically" with the old characters and they should bring storylines with them that can be unfolded and developed.

[Trisha]

9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Oliver is just irredeemably stupid at this point. 

YUP. Also, now I'm pretty sure the dialogue tease is in response to Oliver. All the sighs...

[way2interested]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

I really hope not. I want to see Thea make a decision herself about her future, especially since whatever happens is probably going to be the reason she's not around for the next few episodes. But it's definitely possible. 

Honestly, I think it's going to be her resigning/taking the fall to be out for the next few episodes. Even Rory got a proactive decision to leave until who knows when, if ever, he'll come back, and Thea's had her own decisions for leaving/doing her own thing for the last few seasons (s1 being with Roy, s2 going with Malcolm, s3 joining the team, s4 hanging up the hood, etc.), so I don't see why they would abruptly change. Could be wrong, but that's how I see it going down.

[lemotomato]

7 minutes ago, Chaser said:

It's just so weird that he isn't the least bit concerned about the threat Reporter poses or her motives. Or given what she knows that she could have been the leak. It's like he is ignoring it completely.

When I was watching the clip:
Oliver: We know who sent the leak
me: Susan!
Oliver: Prometheus!
me: Oh. Right. I guess watching the show wrong.

Edited March 1, 2017 by lemotomato

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

When I was watching the clip:
Oliver: We know who sent the leak
me: Susan!
Oliver: Prometheus!
me: Oh. Right. I guess watching the show wrong.

Imagine if Oliver goes through the episode so certain that Prometheus is the leak, only to face off with him and Prometheus to go, "Nope, wasn't me." 

[Chaser]

What was the point of Tinah in that scene? I'm glad she left but it was confusing. 

[Sunshine]

I am guessing the show wants us to believe that since unintentionally killing Billy that Oliver has seen the error of his ways and thinks everyone should be given the benefit of doubt.  See Black Siren, Dinah & Snuzzan.  No one who comes in contact with him should suffer because of it.  If he knew you before 5.09 you are out of luck. LOL   This is him becoming a hero in the light.  His past is just that - his past. It made him who he is today but doesn't have to define his future.  He is going to try to guide both Thea and Felicity back towards the light I assume. He may come across hypocritical as all get out but I think that's what they are going for.

[Chaser]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Imagine if Oliver goes through the episode so certain that Prometheus is the leak, only to face off with him and Prometheus to go, "Nope, wasn't me." 

"Who was it?!"

"You know I'm out, you're dumb enough to destroy yourself."

Edited March 1, 2017 by Chaser

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

"Who was it?!"

"You know I'm out, you're dumb enough to destroy yourself."

That's the real reason Prometheus has been MIA. I'm telling you, he's sitting back and watching this with buckets of popcorn. 

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Imagine if Oliver goes through the episode so certain that Prometheus is the leak, only to face off with him and Prometheus to go, "Nope, wasn't me." 

He's so sure it's Prometheus that I'm certain it isn't. 

I'd love for it to be Susan, but I'm guessing it's someone random like Talia or some Russian with a grudge who will be revealed as the end of ep cliffie. 

[Sunshine]

4 minutes ago, Chaser said:

What was the point of Tinah in that scene? I'm glad she left but it was confusing. 

Didn't she mention being on his personal detail? I think that was her purpose so we would know why she's around the Mayor all the time.

Both Dinah and Rene were set up to interact with Ollie & Lance if the team disbands in 5.18. Felicity will interact with her cohorts. Diggle is his friend and Lyla is coming back.  Not sure where that leaves Curtis.

[Belinea]

I truly mean what I am about to say: Who writes this stuff? And who considers that to be a good story? I mean, aren't there people to talk to on their staff? Doesn't someone say at some point "What are we doing? Does this make Oliver look good?"

Because at this point they make Oliver seem like the dumbest person and I don't know if that is the intent. Also I have a hard time understanding that the people working on the writing staff don't see that Susan is a weird character. At least the way they wrote her. Why is she hanging around? It can't be because of the awesome chemistry, the well-received character or the well-told storyline. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Belinea

[Morrigan2575]

41 minutes ago, finnaire said:

But, that should be the point of new characters. Instead of dumping a whole new cast on us at once where there are too many to get to know and so we don't care about any of them, they should be introducing them slowly through their own storylines. They should be creating connections "organically" with the old characters and they should bring storylines with them that can be unfolded and developed.

I absolutely agree that it should, I just think it comes down to laziness. Well we already spent time planning out Sara's season long canary backstory, we really don't need to waste that much time on Laurel or Dinah...everyone knows who they are.

We spent time developing Roy and (to a lesser extent) Thea as GA's side kicks...it's old news the audience will just accept the noobs.  

Edited March 1, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

8 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Didn't she mention being on his personal detail? I think that was her purpose so we would know why she's around the Mayor all the time.

Both Dinah and Rene were set up to interact with Ollie & Lance if the team disbands in 5.18. Felicity will interact with her cohorts. Diggle is his friend and Lyla is coming back.  Not sure where that leaves Curtis.

Establishing her on the detail I get, I just don't understand why she left. Normal mayor business is whatever but this feels like it intersects with GA business so it was just weird too me.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Establishing her on the detail I get, I just don't understand why she left. Normal mayor business is whatever but this feels like it intersects with GA business so it was just weird too me.

Probably because they needed Oliver and Thea to be alone when he asked her to make things right with Susan. One less person going "Are you serious with this?" helps. 

[statsgirl]

Dinah left because security detail isn't supposed to be in the mayor's office when they're talking policy even though Oliver needs all the help he can get these days because he's so stupid.

Edited March 1, 2017 by statsgirl

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, statsgirl said:

Dinah left because security detail isn't supposed to be in the mayor's office when they're taking policy even though Oliver needs all the help he can get these days because he's so stupid.

Also because I'm pretty sure they left the rest of his security detail outside. You know, the security detail that told Susan where he was and he saw nothing wrong with that in one of the 5A episodes I don't care about. 

[Velocity23]

[insomniadreams88]

That sneak peek makes me semi-hopeful the dialogue tease is about Curtis' love life. 

[theOAfc]

51 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

They are doing the most in (inadvertently) making Oliver unlikeable. I'm sure he's supposed to come across like he's doing the right thing and showing trust in people but he's looking more and more like a moron. What a shame. I don't want to dislike Oliver but they're making it really difficult right now.

Asking his sister to make things right with the woman who has legitimately done everything wrong is a whole other level of dumb. It's showing loyalty to the wrong person, too.

I dont know in what world these writers live, but there are some twisted ideas the show pushes around. This reminds me of when Oliver acted like lying to felicity because samantha said so was something honorable. He is repeatedly screwing up his closest people to honor or be loyal to people that never earned their place or did anything to honor him. Its honestly weird and ruins his character. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

.....Paul might also have a problem with the fact that you are only now thinking about fixing your relationship Curtis...LOL

[Cleanqueen]

I understood Oliver wanting Thea to make things right with Susan because he doesn't want that choice she made to define her and that it might make susan even more angry and not that he wanted to reconcile things with her. He's probably not ready to deal with the threat Susan clearly poses

And I think it is Prometheus who leaked it, I believe marc said he would make his biggest move at the end of 5x14.

[Belinea]

So, you want people to watch a sweeps episode and the clips you choose is Oliver trying to save his girlfriend's career and then his own. After that you release a clip about Curtis and his relationship problems. Is there nothing else that you could use for promotion? Really?

Edited March 1, 2017 by Belinea

[Midnight Lullaby]

6 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I understood Oliver wanting Thea to make things right with Susan because he doesn't want that choice she made to define her and that it might make susan even more angry and not that he wanted to reconcile things with her. He's probably not ready to deal with the threat Susan clearly poses

And I think it is Prometheus who leaked it, I believe marc said he would make his biggest move at the end of 5x14.

But why isn't he doing anything to protect himself and the team from what Susan might do? If that's the reason he wants Thea to make it right why not telling her? Looking at the clip I don't get the feeling he sees Susan as a threat at all.

[Cleanqueen]

3 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

But why isn't he doing anything to protect himself and the team from what Susan might do? If that's the reason he wants Thea to make it right why not telling her? Looking at the clip I don't get the feeling he sees Susan as a threat at all.

I think the threat of him being impeached is greater in his eyes. And he's leaning on to the fact that she cant share her info right now because she'll be discredited. But what he doesn't obviously know because he's an idiot is that there is a PI out there with this info.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

But why isn't he doing anything to protect himself and the team from what Susan might do? If that's the reason he wants Thea to make it right why not telling her? Looking at the clip I don't get the feeling he sees Susan as a threat at all.

 

1 minute ago, Cleanqueen said:

I think the threat of him being impeached is greater in his eyes. And he's leaning on to the fact that she cant share her info right now because she'll be discredited. But what he doesn't obviously know because he's an idiot is that there is a PI out there with this info.

 

Sadly because this show seems insistent that she's not bad, eve if everything else including their own dialogue points to Susan being shady.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Cleanqueen]

12 minutes ago, Belinea said:

So, you want people to watch a sweeps episode and the clips you choose is Oliver trying to save his girlfriend's career and then his own. After that you release a clip about Curtis and his relationship problems. Is there nothing else that you could use for promotion? Really?

I don't think this network cares about sweeps...they have never done anything to step up their promotion during this time of the year according to my knowledge. It's just any other week to them

[insomniadreams88]

I think a problem is also that Oliver probably thinks that he can get out of whatever trouble comes his way. Impeachment hearing? Tell a version of the truth and it'll work, as he says in the clip. He probably even thinks that the team will protect him and get him out of any trouble that comes his way if he's outed as GA because he's not thinking about how it's going to affect everyone else and get them into trouble. I hope this isn't true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is. 

[Scribbles]

1 hour ago, Belinea said:

I truly mean what I am about to say: Who writes this stuff? And who considers that to be a good story?

Speed Weed.  (Edited out the rest of my comment, because it just felt meaner than I feel and edit allows to correct regrets quickly.)

Edited March 1, 2017 by Scribbles

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 minute ago, Cleanqueen said:

I think the threat of him being impeached is greater in his eyes. And he's leaning on to the fact that she cant share her info right now because she'll be discredited. But what he doesn't obviously know because he's an idiot is that there is a PI out there with this info.

But if Thea does what he told her to do and fix things then Susan will be able to out him as the GA and at that point he might end up on trial for murder. The impeachment would be the last of his problems.

I think he doesn't see her as a threat..that like he said last episode she isn't going to out him. It makes no sense to me but that's what I get from the way he is acting.

[Belinea]

4 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think he doesn't see her as a threat..that like he said last episode she isn't going to out him.It makes no sense to me but that's what I get from the way he is acting.

She said 'now, I can't go public with it'. At this point, he should know that she wasn't going to care about his feelings (or him) regarding her story. It just makes him look like a moron and I agree with you, it doesn't seem to make much sense. I have a feeling their ' genuine feelings' will be relevant this episode. Hopefully I am wrong. 

At this point, I'd encourage Susan to betray him only for him to realise how much of an idiot he is, but I think they will not have him be wrong about her rather everyone else including the only family member he has left. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Belinea

[Cleanqueen]

4 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

But if Thea does what he told her to do and fix things then Susan will be able to out him as the GA and at that point he might end up on trial for murder. The impeachment would be the last of his problems.

I think he doesn't see her as a threat..that like he said last episode she isn't going to out him. It makes no sense to me but that's what I get from the way he is acting.

Yeah I have no clue why he doesn't see her as a threat and why the writing suggests she is...There is two options out here 1) don't fix things with Susan and let her be discredited -but this doesn't solve the issue of someone knowing his secret including a PI out there. 2) She decides she won't out him and wants to start a relationship with him, does that suddenly erase the fact that she did want to out him. How does this further Oliver's story? 

See all too messy. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

9 minutes ago, Belinea said:

She said 'now, I can't go public with it'. At this point, he should know that she wasn't going to care about his feelings (or him) regarding her story. It just makes him look like a moron and I agree with you, it doesn't seem to make much sense. I have a feeling their ' genuine feelings' will be relevant this episode. Hopefully I am wrong. 

At this point, I'd encourage Susan to betray him only for him to realise how much of an idiot he is, but I think they will not have him be wrong about her rather everyone else including the only family member he has left. 

Yeah I know..but Oliver didn't seem to have heard her, LOL. They could have easily fixed the situation making Susan say "I wasn't going to go public with it anyway because I care about you." I don't know why they keep making her look shady instead. I'm confused about what they are trying to tell me.

[statsgirl]

I don't know what they're thinking other than they don't care about the negative feedback for Susan.  This episode would have been shot in December or January and they're still pitching Oliver's feelings for Susan.

56 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I understood Oliver wanting Thea to make things right with Susan because he doesn't want that choice she made to define her and that it might make susan even more angry and not that he wanted to reconcile things with her. He's probably not ready to deal with the threat Susan clearly poses

And I think it is Prometheus who leaked it, I believe marc said he would make his biggest move at the end of 5x14.

Prioritries, Oliver.  You've got the impeachment and the threat of Susan spilling all your secrets. And yes, because you haven't noticed yet, outing Diggle, Thea and Felicity and the rest of the team too.

37 minutes ago, Belinea said:

She said 'now, I can't go public with it'. At this point, he should know that she wasn't going to care about his feelings (or him) regarding her story. It just makes him look like a moron and I agree with you, it doesn't seem to make much sense. I have a feeling their ' genuine feelings' will be relevant this episode. Hopefully I am wrong. 

I'm expecting Oliver to have "genuine feelings" for Susan because nothing else explains why he is being so stupid.  They won't make me believe she has feelings for him though.  Otherwise she wouldn't have handled any of this the way she did, especially the confrontation scene last episode.

They've finally done it -- produced a character I hate more than Rene, Ra's and Laurel combined.

Edited March 1, 2017 by statsgirl

[finnaire]

53 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Also because I'm pretty sure they left the rest of his security detail outside. You know, the security detail that told Susan where he was and he saw nothing wrong with that in one of the 5A episodes I don't care about. 

Maybe Dinah replaced the leaky spout.

Oliver's actions are all about the moral superiority.  He still wants everybody to act/be better than him. Because they are!   He wants Thea to right her wrong to overcome her evil Moira instincts.  

He wants Susan's reputation to be restored because it was taken from her unjustly. He still thinks she a good reporter just doing her job.

[Velocity23]

[tv echo]

Larger view of 520 production design pic (from MG tweet in Spoilers thread)):

In that Collider interview, when JH was asked who she thinks Tinah feels closest to at this point, she said, "probably Oliver." She also mentioned developing a "fondness for Curtis," but no mention of Diggle at all.  I find that curious, considering we just watched two episodes of Tinah bonding with Diggle.

-- JH: "I think she feels close to different team members for different reasons. In general, probably Oliver because he was the one who she opened up to first, and they share such a similar background with so much pain. They’ve had so many years of difficulty. I also think that the team is really bringing out her humanness, especially Curtis. As the episodes progress, she starts to develop a fondness for Curtis because he’s so different from her. He’s unintentionally light and funny, and I think she’s drawn to that, as well."

Tinah being so similar to Oliver. Curtis bringing out her humanness. Tinah being drawn to Curtis' light/funny.  Doesn't this sound just like the Oliver/Felicity dynamic from S1-S2, except without the sexual undertones?

Edited March 1, 2017 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

Those 2 episodes could be all there is.  She's filmed 5 since and might be interacting more with the others.  Diggle filmed with Rene for 1 or 2 and that's been it.  I think they're using him as the welcome to the team guy.

[EmilyBettFan]

1 hour ago, Belinea said:

So, you want people to watch a sweeps episode and the clips you choose is Oliver trying to save his girlfriend's career and then his own. After that you release a clip about Curtis and his relationship problems. Is there nothing else that you could use for promotion? Really?

Funny right? But you get the producers saying "we're writing away from romance." Yeah just Oliver and Felicity.

So stupid. I thought this show didn't want romance? No they just listened to some of the worst parts of the internet and have tried to erase what Oliver and Felicity mean to each other.

[Belinea]

8 minutes ago, EmilyBettFan said:

I thought this show didn't want romance?

Well, thankfully Oliver and Susan are as far away from romantic as a couple can possibly be. They probably have the same spring in their steps as the one Felicity had.

[statsgirl]

You might even say, Oliver and Susan are anti-romance. But then we get review like TV Fanatic saying they want Susan to join the team.

16 minutes ago, tv echo said:

‘Arrow’: Juliana Harkavy on Black Canary’s ‘Desire for Justice’
Robert Chan   March 1, 2017
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/arrow-new-black-canary-juliana-harkavy-interview-151735643.html

Despite the rough moments, it’s the physical aspect of the show that excites her the most. “I’m really falling in love with the fighting and training,” she says. “I want to do be able to do more of my own stunts and really be proficient with my weapons.” So, does that mean she’s ready to take on the dreaded salmon ladder? Harkavy laughs. “I feel like it’s this ongoing thing that looms over the entire cast. I know that Rick [Gonzalez] has done it. I think even Emily [Bett Rickards] has done it — she is so incredibly strong. She is fitness goals. David Ramsey’s done it. I think Echo’s tried it. It’s just sitting there in the lair, so you see people walking by and give it a look like, ‘Should I?’” For the record, Harkavy plans to take on the ladder by the end of the season.

Give me this. give me a scene in the lair where they're all sitting around doing shots and there's a salmon ladder competition to see who's best.