Spoiler Discussion Thread

[HighHopes]

So I am back from them filming (I'm itsalwaysfour on Twitter), word on the set was they were filming until 6am which was way too long to stay out there haha. I wish I had gotten a better photo of The Black Canary, but as soon as she got out of the vehicle she pulled up the hood of her jacket and was then surrounded by 3 people at all times. I can confirm though that it was Laurel's version of the BC costume with buckles and Laurel version of the mask (and not the Sara version).

I saw David Ramsey's stunt double too (leather jacket and that awful helmet type thing), but a few of the film crew people said Amell was the only star there and there were some 200 or so extras. Several dudes in greenish looking riot gear hanging out on set too. When they were actually filming they had to hide all of people watching around the corners so they wouldn't be in the shot, so I wasn't actually able to see the filming unfortunately.

Edited April 16, 2016 by HighHopes

[spartan]

I doubt even if the actress madison plays another Black Canary in Episode 19, to show that she is still alive, these things will surely bring the  team ARROW honor laurel at the end of this episode. I'm so, they will reveal that it was laurel was black canary, so that everyone knows what she did.
Now, in light of recent poilers, for the last episode 4X23, it could be a ghost or flashback

[Midnight Lullaby]

At this point if they wanted a recurring BC they could have had Sara in her old costume. I find that completely unnecessary but better than a kid that seems a mockery of the character to me. Also doubled by Atlin who is a grown woman? It's potentially worse than KC's BC and that is a low bar.

[Angel12d]

LOL the new BC or whoever she is looks about 15. I really don't care if she's BC though. She's not Laurel which is the main thing.

[spartan]

someone remarked that it seems that it is caity lotz, and the actress has said on twitter that she has finished filming something.
So sara, helps team arrow , and decides to wear the costume of laurel.

these writers are crazy

[Genki]

If it's Sara fair enough.... LoT would be finished for the season would not mind a Sara assist. If even accept Scrappy Canary, I just really, really just don't want Laurel back.

No matter who's in the costume gross, it should be covered in Laurel's blood

@HighHopes thanks for reporting kinda funny they are so protective of the spoiler.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Genki

[looptab]

Not just the blood, shouldn't it be shredded to pieces? Did the doctors take the time to undo every single buckle before operating on her? After all, it was neatly folded on her chair in her room!

[Midnight Lullaby]

We are supposed to believe that Laurel put her sister's costume on the first time she went out as BC..never mind it looked different. A hole and blood is nothing at this point, LOL

Also I think the buckles are decorative..don't ask me why...

Edited April 16, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[spartan]

it is surely sara,  and Katie Cassidy is in New York

[looptab]

She didn't specify. Just said filming and it's weird being on a new set. It seems odd to me though that she wouldn't be there with the stunt double if it was her. Idk.

Was this on IG? I just saw a tweet saying she wad done filming.

[bijoux]

Not just the blood, shouldn't it be shredded to pieces? Did the doctors take the time to undo every single buckle before operating on her? After all, it was neatly folded on her chair in her room!

Ha! I didn't even notice that. How considerate of them.

[lemotomato]

Was this on IG? I just saw a tweet saying she wad done filming.

CL posted on Snapchat that she's in Utah for work but will be heading for Coachella soon.

 

Thanks for the set report, @HighHopes! Looks like you were out there for a long time!

Edited April 16, 2016 by lemotomato

[Belinea]

So what is the truth now? The replaced KC with a younger version (rude in regards to KC) they lied about the grave (rude in regards to the viewer), they brought Sara back (I doubt it somewhat.)

It is just very weird. How old is the actress and does she resemble KC so that you can just use the same stunt woman.

It is strange to me, I was so interested in S4 and nothing at this point makes me excited for the rest of the season. What was the point of this season? I know, I should stop being pessimistic but after the last couple of episodes and the constant anger directed towards the show, I just cannot find it in me to be more positive.

[Midnight Lullaby]

So what is the truth now? The replaced KC with a younger version (rude in regards to KC) they lied about the grave (rude in regards to the viewer), they brought Sara back (I doubt it somewhat.)

It is just very weird. How old is the actress and does she resemble KC so that you can just use the same stunt woman.

When did they lie about the grave? If Caity said she is filming in Utah then she isn't back on Arrow.

The new actress is twenty and she is definitely shorter than KC. But they used Atlin to double her, Caity, the actress who played the Huntress and even Katrina I think. They didn't choose her because she resembles KC (in fact her body type is quite different.) I think it's sloppy work to use a grown woman to double one that looks like a kid but they also use a double for Willa that has a completely different body type so they don't seem concerned about it.

[Belinea]

When did they lie about the grave? If Caity said she is filming in Utah then she isn't back on Arrow.

 

I meant if it turned out they lied about Laurel being dead. Which I don't really believe.

[Morrigan2575]

I meant if it turned out they lied about Laurel being dead. Which I don't really believe.

She's dead, she's fired, she has no job and no income which is why KC is now doing Spokesmodel gigs for Toyota and Amazon Live Streams (to maybe 5k peeps) to support herself. If she was still employed with Arrow she wouldn't be stooping so low to earn a living.

As for this new BC, I would have been happy if Sara got to be BC on LoT (actually quite happy with it). However, I really don't see why they'd bring on a tween actress to play BC. I might accept it if this is Nyssa levels if recurring 2-3 episodes per season but having this new kid (who can't act) on full time is just a world of NO.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[lemotomato]

The thing that irritates me most about knowing some version of BC is still on the show is that my hopes for better stunts just went down the drain. I actually believed Bamford's excited tweets about how awesome the action was going to be for the finale, and now I feel like it's just going to be another under rehearsed, hurriedly coordinated, badly edited, crowded group fight. I doubt Madison McLaughlin will be any better than KC at selling action scenes.

 

I'm racking my brain for any spoilers that I'm actually looking forward to seeing, and all I can think of is that picture Glen Winter posted of SA and EBR in formal wear. And the possibility that OTA might have a scene together because SA, EBR, and DR were all in the Lair when the "Ship of the Year" award video was made.

Edited April 16, 2016 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

If she's only recurring and only in a couple/few episodes a season it really won't affect stunts all that much.

Ultimately, it depends on the show's level of commitment to Baby Canary.

ETA: One stray thought a new BC on Arrow might not be the Producers call. It's possible that CW/WB/DC (I'm thinking DC/WB) said Kill Laurel but we need a BC on the show in some fashion...we're trying to sell comics here and we just allowed GA/BC to meet in the comics post Flashpoint...you have to give a BC some sort of presence on the show.

I'm just speculating here, I have no idea what's going on BTS

Edited April 16, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Midnight Lullaby]

Bamford was always praising KC and Willa stunts that were the worst. They didn't pick those two for their talent in action scenes and it's easy to see. KC is uncoordinated, Willa a bit better but not that much and it's clear for both every time the doubles step in because of the fluidity in the movements and because BC's face was too recognizable and Willa's double too different from her.

I get that he likes "strong women" in the patriarchal definition of the term and that gets him excited for those stunts but oh boy they were mediocre..the hallway scene he loved so much for example. So I don't trust him when he gets excited over stunts and if you add to the mix the actress in question even less.

[Belinea]

Ultimately, it depends on the show's level of commitment to Baby Canary.

 

She really looks very young in many pictures. (Which is obvious since she is only 20) but how will that work in terms of dynamic with the team. I mean Thea is the youngest but nobody seemingly cares about her age. 

[Morrigan2575]

She really looks very young in many pictures. (Which is obvious since she is only 20) but how will that work in terms of dynamic with the team. I mean Thea is the youngest but nobody seemingly cares about her age.

How do we know Baby Canary is going to be on the team and a full time series regular in S5?

For all we know she's a Nyssa level recurring character

[looptab]

Ha! I didn't even notice that. How considerate of them.

Star City's doctors, they suck at medicine and they probably won't cure you, but they make sure to save your clothes. :)

[Angel12d]

I really don't think baby BC will be on the team full time. Seriously. This seems to be someone who liked what Laurel's BC was doing and wants to take up her mantle after her death. And considering the city is going to hell again, I can see why she'd come out and try to help.

 

But look! At least they'll get comic canon age difference between GA and BC, right? LMAO. (This is a joke, please don't think I'm even suggesting a romantic thing because I'm not. Just want to clarify in case of meltdowns. Haha.)

Edited April 16, 2016 by Angel12d

[looptab]

Back to more imminent things a bit: what do you guys think it's the angle for 419's barf flashbacks? I mean, do you think they'll try again with some "I've always known you were better than that/there was something good in you" and that "You always saw the real me", or will it be something else?

I honestly have no idea what the point could be. At least I'll have a good laugh if bones are mentioned. :)

Edited April 16, 2016 by looptab

[catrox14]

She's dead, she's fired, she has no job and no income which is why KC is now doing Spokesmodel gigs for Toyota and Amazon Live Streams (to maybe 5k peeps) to support herself. If she was still employed with Arrow she wouldn't be stooping so low to earn a living.

As for this new BC, I would have been happy if Sara got to be BC on LoT (actually quite happy with it). However, I really don't see why they'd bring on a tween actress to play BC. I might accept it if this is Nyssa levels if recurring 2-3 episodes per season but having this new kid (who can't act) on full time is just a world of NO.

 

I'm sure she has been fired  but doing ads IMO is not an indicator. Jared Padalecki who most definitely hasn't been fired from SPN, did some ads for McDonalds and Chevy in Austin during this season.

 

I'm going with this being someone trying to emulate Laurel.  Maybe Lance talks her out of doing it and then becomes whatever character in the show she's going to be.

Edited April 16, 2016 by catrox14

[Velocity23]

She just did a make up tutorial for her spider lashes ...

[kismet]

So long as Baby Canary is just recurring and perhaps training under Nyssa (conveniently free of LoA) - fighting crimes worlds away but coming in for an assist during huge finale episodes I'm not going to stress over it just yet.

 

BC around was never the big problem. It was KC/LL as the BC. And mostly BC being around all the time. Give the newbie some time away to earn the title and be of use every now and then seems fine to me.

 

I also think that if this Baby Canary is going to be the new BC it probably is the DC/WB powers that are requesting a BC presence in ARROW. Perhaps this is the best solution that could be determined that fulfilled everyone's contractual obligations.

[Starfish35]

Not just the blood, shouldn't it be shredded to pieces? Did the doctors take the time to undo every single buckle before operating on her? After all, it was neatly folded on her chair in her room!

Was it? Wow. I figured they cut it off her in the operating room.

[Thundercatmary]

I guess what's perplexing to me is that this Baby Canary is so young, I mean someone said she's 20 or so but the pics I saw she looked like a teenager. I just can't imagine Oliver allowing someone so young to be out there with them. I guess maybe she goes out on her own and he can't stop her? 

[looptab]

Was it? Wow. I figured they cut it off her in the operating room.

There are definitely clothes on the chair in the hospital room - I figure it's the suit. I was perplexed as well, but they had to pull that picture out of somewhere, haha.

[nksarmi]

Man you guys are accepting - I don't want Baby Canary at all.  I mean, I wish they weren't even doing this plot - not for one episode or two and sure as hell not into season five.  The upside of freaking killing BC/Laurel was freaking killing BC/Laurel! 

 

It was killing a team member - showing the consequences of their life.  How are they doing that if they let some teenager put on the BC costume and run around? They should shut her down hard or kill her off in the finale. I'm sorry but there are no "consequences" to their lifestyle if they start going to "Robin" route. 

 

Plus I really want to see them do something good with the characters they already have. This is unnecessary and probably dumb.

[Velocity23]

Gimme Felicity/Diggle scene!

[Morrigan2575]

Man you guys are accepting - I don't want Baby Canary at all. I mean, I wish they weren't even doing this plot - not for one episode or two and sure as hell not into season five. The upside of freaking killing BC/Laurel was freaking killing BC/Laurel!

It was killing a team member - showing the consequences of their life. How are they doing that if they let some teenager put on the BC costume and run around? They should shut her down hard or kill her off in the finale. I'm sorry but there are no "consequences" to their lifestyle if they start going to "Robin" route.

Plus I really want to see them do something good with the characters they already have. This is unnecessary and probably dumb.

I agree with all of that. However, I'm trying to make the best of a bad situation. Hoping that she's only in a couple of episodes is the best I've got for now. Edited April 16, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Angel12d]

Man you guys are accepting - I don't want Baby Canary at all.  I mean, I wish they weren't even doing this plot - not for one episode or two and sure as hell not into season five.  The upside of freaking killing BC/Laurel was freaking killing BC/Laurel! 

 

It was killing a team member - showing the consequences of their life.  How are they doing that if they let some teenager put on the BC costume and run around? They should shut her down hard or kill her off in the finale. I'm sorry but there are no "consequences" to their lifestyle if they start going to "Robin" route. 

 

Plus I really want to see them do something good with the characters they already have. This is unnecessary and probably dumb.

 

Not really accepting. I don't want baby BC at all either. I don't even know why they're doing it tbh. Like you said, they need to focus on the characters they already have. 

 

But I don't see her being a permanent addition anyway. Maybe recurring like Nyssa which would be ok, I think? Trying not to worry about it until we know who she is exactly.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Angel12d

[tangerine95]

I'm definitely don't get the point of baby BC at all. I get it in 4.19 as a way to deal with is the death fake and can the name be passed on thing but the answer should be no and it shouldn't be a multiple episode thing.So I have no idea where they're going with it especially since Laurel's gravestone will say BC and that makes me think no one will be taking the name again.But I don't think she'll be joining the team next season or anything tbh so I'm not really worried, just annoyed that I have to see another mask for even a scene.

[Starfish35]

I'm not ok with it at all. I was fine when I thought it was going to be an absolutely one time thing. But I'm not ok with a Baby Canary on any kind of regular or recurring basis. The only one who should have the Black Canary name is Sara, and if they're not going to give it to her, then let it die with Laurel. I just don't understand bringing in this third person.

That said, I also can't grind my teeth about it for the next six weeks. *sigh* But.....it's annoying. Very.

[Chaser]

Maybe it's a soft pilot for a Black Canary series. They want a BC show, but not KC so this is what they came up with. She could be a singer in a rock band. That was 'canon' for a hot sec. Or they could go hardcore and she leaves and trains with LOA for a summer before launching her own show.

 

Also, I'm totally joking but I had that thought earlier and it made me laugh.

 

I don't want Baby Canary. I don't want another mask and I don't see the appeal of having a teenager on the show. Esp. a teenager in a mask who probably needs babysitting.

 

I'm hoping for some Nyssa level recurring - if she is joining the cast.

[Carrie Ann]

For now, until we know for sure that MMc was filming too, I'm going to cling to the idea that Oliver has been knocked for a loop and sees a vision of BC that makes him get up and keep fighting (a la Tommy in 209), or leads him somewhere, or is just a vision at the end of battle like she was watching over them, blah blah.

[looptab]

For now, until we know for sure that MMc was filming too, I'm going to cling to the idea that Oliver has been knocked for a loop and sees a vision of BC that makes him get up and keep fighting (a la Tommy in 209), or leads him somewhere, or is just a vision at the end of battle like she was watching over them, blah blah.

I can't decide whether I love or hate these scenarios, haha.

[ComicFan777]

On the flipside, if Baby Canary is around next season, they could set up next-gen team arrow with Thea, Roy, Baby Canary, and Curtis, while maintaining OTA setup.  The dynamics could be similar to season 2 with the mini Scoobies and the experienced team tackling different missions.

[Belinea]

'm going to cling to the idea that Oliver has been knocked for a loop and sees a vision of BC that makes him get up and keep fighting (a la Tommy in 209), or leads him somewhere, or is just a vision at the end of battle like she was watching over them, blah blah.

 

It might be a plausible idea but I really don't want them to go there for some reason. 

[Carrie Ann]

Hey man, I don't love it either, but I would personally prefer it over Baby Canary. I don't really care about her in 419, but then I want that character to go off with Nyssa, traveling to whatever part of the world is farthest from SC.

[Belinea]

But look! At least they'll get comic canon age difference between GA and BC, right? LMAO. (This is a joke, please don't think I'm even suggesting a romantic thing because I'm not. Just want to clarify in case of meltdowns. Haha.)

 

Don't even put it out there...Some writer might snatch it up as fantastic idea. But all jokes aside, for some reason I choose to believe that SA would have a problem with his character and a girl that is so young. I always get the impression that he even considers EBR to be quite young  (which she is, but you know what I mean). Not that it'd be up to him but I don't think he'd be all too comfortable. (All this could also be my imagination)

[Starfish35]

Hey man, I don't love it either, but I would personally prefer it over Baby Canary. I don't really care about her in 419, but then I want that character to go off with Nyssa, traveling to whatever part of the world is farthest from SC.

I like it better than the idea of Baby Canary too, but....it just occurred to me that the problem with that scenario is that if they were going to do that, they would probably use KC, not the stunt double.

[bijoux]

I like it better than the idea of Baby Canary too, but....it just occurred to me that the problem with that scenario is that if they were going to do that, they would probably use KC, not the stunt double.

Make her blurry and silent. Done.

[Carrie Ann]

^ Yep. Or shoot her from a distance, only in profile, from behind, etc. Same way they obscure her during fight scenes!

 

I like it better than the idea of Baby Canary too, but....it just occurred to me that the problem with that scenario is that if they were going to do that, they would probably use KC, not the stunt double.

 

I was going to say something in my first post about how it would be pretty hilarious if they did this--brought back BC for an inspirational vision--and only used the stunt double and not KC, but I was trying not to be petty.... Whoopsie, I failed.

[Starfish35]

Lol. Ok I can work with that. :)

[looptab]

Eh, I feel like that would just fuel the "ohhhh, she's still alive!/she's coming back!" thing. 

[Starfish35]

Lol. From the Small Talk thread.

Happy One Year Anniversary of the Porsche Sunset spoiler, guys! :)

Last year we got this. This year we get BC sighting on set.

Thank you to HighHopes for the reporting, btw. Not complaining about your reporting! :)

[Belinea]

Eh, I feel like that would just fuel the "ohhhh, she's still alive!/she's coming back!" thing. 

Considering she is actually blonde again apparently, people might question it. I am curious to see how the funeral episode drives it home. Because a lot of people seem to be under the impression that she isn't dead. Or at least that is what I've read.