Spoiler Discussion Thread

[wonderwall]

Maybe it's something he promises in the episode? Other than that...I can't remember. 

 

I'm not worried about him being high so much as stupid. He wanted to be like the Arrow how many episodes ago - would he not realize that if there's a guy dressed in a green hood running around doing bad stuff that it might be a copycat?

 

When will he realize that Oliver is the Arrow? At the end of the episode? Because if he knows before the wedding then that doesn't make sense because copycat Arrow killed during the ceremony. 

 

Ugh, Ray is such a non-entity. I don't even know why we're supposed to care about him. And with this episode and his motivations, people are going to turn on him so fast. I honestly don't get what the writers were thinking with this SL. And to saddle Felicity with THIS????! Ugh it's worse. 

[apinknightmare]

When will he realize that Oliver is the Arrow? At the end of the episode? Because if he knows before the wedding then that doesn't make sense because copycat Arrow killed during the ceremony. 

 

I think the wedding must happen at the beginning of the episode. And maybe Ray finds out toward the end? I wonder if he makes some kind of public pledge to bring the Arrow to justice and finds out Oliver's the Arrow (maybe Oliver tells him after they fight in order to get Ray off his ass and make him realize there are bad guys running around dressed as the Arrow?), then Ray goes to the mayor's office to plead his case or announce that there's a copycat running around and say the Arrow isn't responsible for the rash of crime/murders, and that's when the attack on the mayor's office that leaves him injured happens? Maybe that will be the cliffhanger for the week? 

 

That of course will leave Ray with his knowledge that there are copycats and because the copycat Arrow is responsible for the attack on the mayor's office, the cops will think that the Arrow blew it up because Ray was going to go after him? 

 

PLOT STUPIDITY, STILL RIGHT AHEAD

 

but whatever. Maybe they'll surprise me and something different will happen.

Edited March 23, 2015 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

Presumably they fight and then figure out who each other is, and then Ray realizes that it couldn't be Oliver because they were together at the wedding when one of the attacks was going on.   When Ray tells Felicity that Oliver Queen is the Arrow and she worriedly asks what he's going to do, Ray could answer "Nothing about him. We figured out it's a copycat.  I'm going to uphold my pledge to the city blah blah blah"

 

I can see why they might be mad at Felicity though, it would have been a lot easier if she had told Ray and Oliver about each other.

 

I can understand why, when the Arrow starts killing people, nobody thinks "copycat".  Up until 18 months ago, he was killing right, left and centre.  There's no explanation for why he stopped; there doesn't need to be one for why he started up again.

[apinknightmare]

So, if Ray realizes that the Arrows are copycats, then he must the authorities, right? He's the city's golden boy and funnels money to the police force - surely he'd have some pull and they'd believe him? 

 

I'm just having difficulty understanding why Quentin is going so hard for the Arrow. Yeah, he didn't tell him about Sara, but he's been helping out the police force for however long now, and Quentin himself even encouraged him to kill during the siege. Laurel was the one who kept the secret and pretended to be Sara. If he goes after Oliver just because the Arrow kept the secret about Sara, is he going to go equally hard for Laurel considering she's out vigilante-ing too? Nah, no way. There's got to be something else to it.

 

I feel like in order to fully explain Oliver having to be on the run and be a "public enemy" that something's got to happen before Ray can explain that there are bad Arrows out there. So he must get blown up or attacked at the mayor's office before he can let Quentin/the authorities know? Either that or Quentin just chooses not to believe Ray because he wants to bring down the Arrow so badly.

Edited March 23, 2015 by apinknightmare

[SleepDeprived]

^ Don't think about it too much. They need to get to that plot point of the Arrow as Public Enemy #1 so the characters conveniently forget logical/rational/actual detective work thought processes and jump straight to wrong conclusions. The possibility is very high that no one (Palmer, Quentin, the SCPD) will even ponder that it could be copycats that are doing the killing instead of the actual Arrow, even though the exact same thing happened when it was Merlyn "impersonating" the Arrow and killing (that time Quentin figured it out because the plot needed it) in S1.

 

Also, Felicity is wearing the same top in the "Oliver Queen is the Arrow/What are you going to do?" scene as the one with Palmer saying he'll "bring the Arrow to justice." So, I'm guessing that's after the Arrow/ATOM fight and he knows already that it's Oliver under the hood.

 

So, there's a quick shot of Palmer seemingly having an argument with Laurel in the "Suicidal Tendencies" promo. I wonder if he goes to her, first, and asks what the DA's office is doing about the Arrow/the killings and Laurel shuts him down (because I assume she'd be privy to Team Arrow's efforts at trying to stop the FakeArrows). Getting shut down could  make Palmer even more eager to test out his suit against the Arrow, that leads to him finding out that it's Oliver, and then to that scene with him telling Felicity he knows who the Arrow is. Or, if that scene with Laurel is at the end of the episode where he attempts to get Laurel/the DA's office to neutralize the Arrow/Oliver because he doesn't agree with how Oliver is handling things. Laurel shuts him down, which leads Palmer to go to the Mayor's office in "Public Enemy."

 

I've really been wondering why Palmer would even be at the Mayor's office in 3x18. Is it another contrived situation, like when the precinct got attacked in 3x11, where he's just there because he's, apparently, the city's sole source of funds/Mr. Moneybags? Or is it because he might be on his way to tell the Mayor that he knows who the Arrow is? Or, maybe, he's on his way to try to get the Mayor to ease off the anti-Arrow brigade, since he knows it's Oliver now? Which is why Ra's sends in one of his Arrow cosplayers to attack the Mayor's office. A sighting of the Arrow attacking the Mayor (and Palmer) will certainly make Quentin ramp-up the anti-vigilante task force's efforts.

[statsgirl]

Would Ray trust the city politicians?  He told them to call in the National Guard when Brick crashed their meeting, and not only did they not, they handed The Glades over to Brick. Maybe Ray, like Laurel, thinks he's the only one who can save the city?

 

 I understand Quentin and what he's doing.  When you feel that someone you have trusted has betrayed you, you last out of them. You both want to punish them, and to get them to say "I was wrong, I'm sorry, I won't hurt you again.".  Quentin trusted the Arrow and thought of him as his partner, he had asked the Arrow to take care of Sara, and not only did he not, he didn't even tell Quentin when she died.  Last time Sara died, he had Dinah (who he shut out), his job and his police partner, and Laurel to help him get through it.  This time he hasn't got any of those, and not even the crutch of alcohol.

 

There may well be another reason for Quentin's vendetta but I think there's enough to justify it already.

Edited March 23, 2015 by statsgirl

[Guest]

Did I miss Ray making a promise to protect the city? Honest question because I zone out when he's on screen and I still haven't seen all the episodes. 

 

I'm assuming that the wedding is at the start of the episode, during which Felicity gets a notification on her phone that the Arrow is killing again. Diggle and Lyla go off with the Suicide Squad and Ray decides it's time to put his suit into practice and take down the Arrow. Another flaw in his plan - he's running on shitty information and he's not properly prepared. Somewhere after that he finds out the Arrow is Oliver Queen and goes after him directly. How it ends up is anyone's guess, though I bet Ray is the perfect little snowflake and Oliver is shit on all over again because that is the theme of the season after all. 

 

Ugh. Does no one use their brain on this show though? The Arrow hasn't killed anyone for a year, not since the Count, but suddenly he's dropping bodies everywhere…is no one of authority going to question what's changed and whether it's a copycat or not? I mean, Oliver and TA saved all those cops in 316 so why would he suddenly start killing anyone? USE YOUR BRAIN CELLS PEOPLE. 

Also if Quentin goes after Oliver/Arrow just because he kept Sara's death a secret I will be furious. That was Laurel's request. She was the one who didn't want Quentin to know until they found Sara's killer. That should be on her. I'm pretty annoyed that she's not suffering bigger consequences apart from her dad not talking to her. Oh no. How terrible. My heart bleeds.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

Seems to me that Quentin's issue is more than just wanting to get back at/punish the Arrow for keeping Sara's death from him. If that's the case, why is he waiting? He's known the Arrow was in on it for weeks, and twice he's been within Quentin's proximity - he could've had him arrested and charged with vigilantism and murder then, but he didn't. Seems to me since it's going to be coming after the copy cats show up in town, that Quentin's not going to realize or believe that the copycat Arrows are copycats, and he's going to go after the Arrow for things he didn't do because plot reasons that don't make much sense. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I hope I am.

Edited March 23, 2015 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

Sounds like more contrived story telling for plot instead of character. We need Lance mad at the Arrow so X will happen. We need the Arrow and the Atom to fight even if logically it doesn't make sense. 

 

I know it's a trope as old as time that the heroes have to fight each other before they can team up (see every superhero story ever), but I'm so over it. 

[statsgirl]

It's contrived but it makes sense. Quentin made a big public announcement that he was disbanding the anti-vigilante task force because the Arrow is a good guy after all, and the Arrow just gave a rousing speech about defending the city.  Quentin may want to get back at him because he didn't tell him about Sara's death (also contrived but Oliver has been making too many stupid decisions this season) so he can't suddenly say "I was wrong, the Arrow is really a bad guy."  He needs a real reason and the Arrow suddenly killing people again (that part's important), is the excuse.

 

Quentin's not going to be looking for an explanation to excuse the Arrow -- he's looking for one to condemn him.

 

 

Somewhere after that he finds out the Arrow is Oliver Queen and goes after him directly.

The problem is that Ray is going to be with Oliver when the next killing goes down, so he knows it's not Oliver.  Unless Oliver runs in late for the wedding and looks shifty.

[apinknightmare]

It doesn't make much sense to me that a person whose whole job is to uphold justice wouldn't question why a person who had stopped killing—and even refused to kill to get Quentin's daughter, a woman he knew this guy cared for, back from a madman—just randomly started killing again, not even a day after saving the police station from a siege. And it's not just a random murder, it's a spree. I know the SCPD is full of morons, but that seems like the first question he'd ask when investigating, even if he is holding a grudge against Oliver and looking for a reason to go after him, but whatever.

So, he goes after the Arrow, and no one tries to tell him there's a copycat? Or, the people who have lied to him (Laurel and Team Arrow) do tell him, but he doesn't believe them and doesn't even think to maybe check that out? Okay. So, Ray, who also knows - does he not tell the cops that there's a copycat? If not, why? If so, why doesn't Quentin believe him? Does he not care as long as he brings Arrow down? If so, what kind of cop is he? Is that his "dilemma" this year?

Like, I get Quentin wanting to believe the Arrow is a terrible person, but I don't get not following that lead once that seed of doubt is planted, regardless of how angry he is. Because I want Quentin to have a moral high road, and if he's just going to go on some vendetta against the Arrow when there are people (yes, people who have lied to him, but people he's gone to for help, people he has personally seen do good) telling him otherwise is going to drive me crazy. Especially since in this scenario the bulk of his anger will be directed at Oliver while Laurel is punished by...getting the silent treatment? Lord.

It'll also drive me crazy if for whatever reason no one manages to get the copycat notice to Lance and that's why he's giving Arrow a full-court press.

The only way this won't bug is if Oliver does actually do something terrible - probably by accident - that Lance personally witnesses or...something.

Edited March 23, 2015 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

It doesn't make much sense to me that a person whose whole job is to uphold justice wouldn't question why a person who had stopped killing—and even refused to kill to get Quentin's daughter, a woman he knew this guy cared for, back from a madman—just randomly started killing again, not even a day after saving the police station from a siege. And it's not just a random murder, it's a spree. I know the SCPD is full of morons, but that seems like the first question he'd ask when investigating, even if he is holding a grudge against Oliver and looking for a reason to go after him, but whatever.

So, he goes after the Arrow, and no one tries to tell him there's a copycat? Or, the people who have lied to him (Laurel and Team Arrow) do tell him, but he doesn't believe them and doesn't even think to maybe check that out? Okay. So, Ray, who also knows - does he not tell the cops that there's a copycat? If not, why? If so, why doesn't Quentin believe him? Does he not care as long as he brings Arrow down? If so, what kind of cop is he? Is that his "dilemma" this year?

 

This is my biggest problem with all of it. Lance has always been shown to be smart and fair. Yes, he was, imo rightfully, irritated when Oliver returned, and he didn't like or trust the Arrow at first, but his opinions on both evolved. Now, because he's mad and grieving, all the characteristics I've seen over two years are null and void?

 

Do we know when Lance meets Ra's? Is it since Ra's is in Starling or is Lance heading to NP?

[looptab]

The problem is that Ray is going to be with Oliver when the next killing goes down, so he knows it's not Oliver. Unless Oliver runs in late for the wedding and looks shifty.

Not necessarily. The alert that Felicity receives could be about the murders we saw at the end of The Offer, and not new ones.

[apinknightmare]

Do we know when Lance meets Ra's? Is it since Ra's is in Starling or is Lance heading to NP?

Seems like Ra's kidnaps him in 3x18 and they stay in SC? And isn't Laurel supposed to be there? I recall PB mentioning it in an interview, but maybe I'm wrong.

[foreverevolving]

My, quick, two cents about Ray and his promise:

We know that Anna died during the season 2 finale attack. So I wonder if there's a part of Ray that blames the Arrow (sort of the same logic used by saying that if not for heros the villains wouldn't be so insane - ie the Batman-Joker cycle and who/what came first) for everything that happened, as if the Arrow presence in starling is what draw slade (which is kind of did, Oliver anyway) and his super strong army. So in his mind Ray's promise to the city is to stop the Arrow and thus stop any more crazy bat shit people trying to hurt the city.

 

So, pretty much what i'm trying to say is: it's possible Ray's promise was made during the siege and we are getting a "tell not show" sort of thing.

 

sorry it's super late and i've been up for over 12 hours so i'm sort of brain dead.

[kismet]

So felicity is kinda screwed she cant tell ray about oliver or oliver about ray. So her loyalties are really split. I wanna know when she finds out the suit is functional, cuz that will probably be her only wiggle room. If she believes the suit is only in the testing stages she probably thinks she has time to tell oliver later. One of her boys is gonna be mad with her. I have a feeling ray will be the unsympathetic party, it'll probably betray one of his honesty codes or something. Where Oliver will understand its not her secret to tell since he keeps tons of secrets himself.

[SleepDeprived]

Wasn't Flash 1x17 supposed to go before Arrow 3x17? I think Felicity was supposed to find out that the suit is working, but needed upgrades, in F1x17. Palmer is pretty much flaunting to everyone in Central City that he's the ATOM so Felicity should definitely already be aware that the suit is functional. He's even flying around in broad daylight, taking his helmet off for all to see, and introducing himself like a doofus to people he's never met.

 

Although since the schedule got messed up and F1x17 is now after A3x17, I have no idea what kind of tweaking they had to do to make up for any timeline holes. Especially since it really looks like events in A3x17 will lead directly into A3x18, with Oliver/Team Arrow on the run and Felicity and Palmer, possibly, having to deal with some anger/tension in their relationship over the Arrow and ATOM clash. Maybe the writers tweaked it so that we learn that Felicity only found out about Palmer actually taking out the suit for vigilante purposes instead of just being in beta testing mode, in A3x17, which is why she couldn't forewarn Team Arrow about him? But then, with the current order of F1x17 happening after A3x17, why would Felicity be so eager to upgrade the ATOM suit if she knows that Palmer is willing to do whatever it takes to protect the city using the suit, even going after Oliver/her own team? Why would Felicity even leave for CC if Team Arrow is dealing with such a huge crisis in SC. Are we supposed to still treat it as F1x17 happening before A3x17 and A3x18 happening soon after with no Central City hop in between? Or are we to follow the episodes through the actual scheduling by the CW? Dang crossovers and wonky network schedule changes!

 

I hope things will still make sense or, at least, they make sure to let the audience know about the iffy timelines, somehow. Dark and gloomy with Team Arrow dealing with crazy League cosplayers and being hunted down by the ATOM (avowed protector, generous benefactor, and future geographical renamer of Starling City) one moment then happy, fun times with Felicity in CC getting the STAR labs team to upgrade Palmer's suit the next then back to doom and gloom with Felicity stuck in the hospital with an injured Palmer while Team Arrow gets hunted down by Quentin/SCPD. That's sure to cause quite a whiplash for people who actually watch both shows. Oy. Not quite my tempo!

[Morrigan2575]

Ray/Felicity are crossing over in Flash 118, anything that happens in 117/317 is pre-crossover. 318 is when the timeline starts going wonky because of the schedule change and that will last until 320 (since there's 3 crossovers planned between 118, 119 and 319).

Edited March 23, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[SleepDeprived]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Morrigan2575. I got really confused there. Then again, that makes the scheduling and timeline even more puzzling since I'm guessing we'll be left worried and in a bad spot about Team Arrow after 3x18 but then we'll have Felicity be sunny and happy in F1x18 in another city the week after then back to sad and worried with, possibly, someone dying in A3x19 the day after.

 

Would it be safe to assume that things don't end up crazy and dire yet for Team Arrow in 3x17, which is why Felicity will feel it just fine to leave for CC in F1x18? Also, I guess Palmer and Oliver will kiss and make-up, or grudgingly be accepting of each other, even after finding out each other's identity and whatever resulting fisticuffs they get into, which is why Felicity is cool with upgrading the ATOM suit in F1x18. So, perhaps, Palmer's going to the Mayor's office in 3x18 will really be him trying to defend the Arrow/Oliver, especially after meeting the Flash in F1x18, but getting caught in the attack/attacked by a FakeArrow, instead. Unless, of course, he's actually just in the Mayor's office for plot reasons.

 

Augh. These network changes are going to make things so iffy.

 

Can someone try and talk me down about getting excited for 3x21, though? SA saying that he's in a hotel room shooting in Vancouver, that "love is in the air" comment by one of the cameramen, and the cute but weird tweet of EBR citing people wearing leather as pillow impersonators. My mind is connecting things that it probably shouldn't since they're more than likely unrelated (but I kinda wish they were). We're on a secret mission and we need to hide out in a hotel room but there's only one bed trope!

[apinknightmare]

 

So, perhaps, Palmer's going to the Mayor's office in 3x18 will really be him trying to defend the Arrow/Oliver, especially after meeting the Flash in F1x18, but getting caught in the attack/attacked by a FakeArrow, instead. Unless, of course, he's actually just in the Mayor's office for plot reasons.

 

Could be, but how strange that he wouldn't do it right away? I thought maybe the end of 3x17 would be a cliffy with the attack on the mayor's office after Ray finds out that there are copycat Arrows, but that couldn't be it because Flash 1x18 would've initially aired before that, meaning Ray left to go to Central City between 3x17 and 3x18, presumably without making a case for the Arrow. Or maybe he did and he was dismissed and he's there for some other reason in 3x18? This is making my brain hurt. 

 

 

Can someone try and talk me down about getting excited for 3x21, though? SA saying that he's in a hotel room shooting in Vancouver, that "love is in the air" comment by one of the cameramen, and the cute but weird tweet of EBR citing people wearing leather as pillow impersonators. My mind is connecting things that it probably shouldn't since they're more than likely unrelated (but I kinda wish they were). We're on a secret mission and we need to hide out in a hotel room but there's only one bed trope!

 

I wish! But didn't MG say on Tumblr that 3x21 probably wouldn't make Olicity fans happy, so sadly I don't think there will be fic-esque bed sharing! 

[statsgirl]

I was trying to think why in the world it would be necessary to have Ray so badly injured that he needs to be in a hospital ICU (this show is called Arrow, after all and Felicity doesn't need the angst) and then I remembered that it's going to be about Ray's identity crises as to whether he can be a superhero or not.  And Felicity's identity crises, (do I love Oliver or Ray?) is just tagging along for the ride.

 

My mind is connecting things that it probably shouldn't since they're more than likely unrelated (but I kinda wish they were). We're on a secret mission and we need to hide out in a hotel room but there's only one bed trope!

 

 

I wouldn't put them past pulling out the old trope but since 3x21 is going to be bad for Olicity, if Felicity is using a leather body for a pillow, it will be someone else.  Or maybe Nyssa/Laurel, since they're both wearing leather.  Or Thea sleeping on Oliver.  EBR isn't  above doing of fan trolling herself.

[SleepDeprived]

Could be, but how strange that he wouldn't do it right away?

 

Well, Palmer could be on the fence about Oliver/Arrow by the end of 3x17 but events in F1x18 with seeing what the Flash does and Felicity battling her nemesis might convince him that what Oliver is doing is harder/more complicated than he thought and the Arrow isn't that bad after all.

 

 

I wish! But didn't MG say on Tumblr that 3x21 probably wouldn't make Olicity fans happy, so sadly I don't think there will be fic-esque bed sharing!

 

Oh, yeah. Thanks for the reminder. MG already made sure to set low expectations for 3x21. And we're still in season 3 where joy and excitement go to die. But hotel room tropes could be so cute and would make me happy, though! Aw, well.

 

I wouldn't put them past pulling out the old trope but since 3x21 is going to be bad for Olicity, if Felicity is using a leather body for a pillow, it will be someone else.  Or maybe Nyssa/Laurel, since they're both wearing leather.  Or Thea sleeping on Oliver.  EBR isn't  above doing of fan trolling herself.

 

Arsenal's previously cold, now undead (thanks, Lazarus Pits!), leather-clad body. Plot twist for 3x21: Sin isn't the only one with a zombie fetish!

[Chaser]

I'm dying to know about these re-writes. Was it a tone thing? Did they need a conversation or two added or one deleted? I'm really curious.

 

The episode I was looking foward to but now I'm not is 3.18. I wanted to see Mama Smoak so bad, but I have a bad feelings its going to be like two different shows. You have the Masks running from the city and then you have Felicity and her Mom watching over Ray in a hospital bed. I'm really hoping Felicity manages to hi-jack some hospital computers to run comms. Or she just ditches Ray to head to the Foundry.

 

I think whatever happens in 3.21 to make Olicity 'probably not happy,' is going to be Oliver and Ra's related. If they are repeating the same pattern they tried with O and L, Olicity could sleep together as an angst-filled hookup before Oliver says good bye to be Ra's. I really don't think Ray and Felicity are going to be a thing past 3.19 at all, since they like to have character moments for Felicity on the Flash they could even break up there.  I'm wondering if the reactions to Ray has shortened the length and depth of the relationship they planned. So far its been shallow waters. SA was also asked about Ray and Felicity at PaleyFest and he said the season wasn't over yet. I thought he looked pretty smug for a guy didn't have the girl yet, they had filmed up to 3.20 at the point so maybe..

[dtissagirl]

It's actually weird if the original plan was gonna be 118 - Palmer gets improvements from Star LABS, leading into ----> 318 - Palmer gets seriously injured the very next day. The network changing dates on them turned the plot points the other way around, which actually makes more sense to me. Dudebro gets hurt, figures he need help, dudebro gets improvements.

[Ariah]

OK, perhaps it has been already discussed in the influx of pages, but I was wondering - is it really difficult for Quentin to capture the Arrow if he wants to?

He knows Arsenal is Roy Harper.

He know his daughter "works" with the Arrow.

He knows Felicity is a close companion / a friend of the Arrow.

 

Now, the logical thing to do would be to arrest all those people (Felicity? Some old hacking thing. Roy? just stop him on the street and fake resistance to the force. Laurel? I bet she's not difficult to spot with those shinny buckles) and send a message to the Arrow - no charges will go through and the three will be let off with a warning or community service, as long as the Arrow gives himself up.

 

We know Oliver with his sense of duty and martyr complex would never hestitate.

 

Still, I believe the writers will chose some convoluted way in which Quentin will act like a fool and miss many opportunities.

[Password]

It's actually weird if the original plan was gonna be 118 - Palmer gets improvements from Star LABS, leading into ----> 318 - Palmer gets seriously injured the very next day. The network changing dates on them turned the plot points the other way around, which actually makes more sense to me. Dudebro gets hurt, figures he need help, dudebro gets improvements.

I really thought this is what would happen. We'll see what happens but I am very interested to see what is tweaked and why.

Are we convinced mama Smoak will talk to Felicity about Oliver? I mean unless Felicity drops very serious hints about her feelings, I'd think mama would be happy with Felicity's new guy.

She said in ep 5 she just wants Felicity to be happy, so unless Felicity has a pouty face when Palmer is hospitalised other than being worried for him, how would she even sense it?

[Ariah]

She said in ep 5 she just wants Felicity to be happy, so unless Felicity has a pouty face when Palmer is hospitalised other than being worried for him, how would she even sense it?

 

Well, if at the time Palmer is at ICU a manhunt for Oliver takes place in Starling, Mama Smoak can notice her daughter keeps checking her phone and whispering "please be safe, Oliver" to thin air - which may give her a clue as to her romantic inclinations.

 

Now, why would Felicity not be arrested during the aforementioned manhunt for the Arrow - I have no idea (see my previous post).

[apinknightmare]

It's actually weird if the original plan was gonna be 118 - Palmer gets improvements from Star LABS, leading into ----> 318 - Palmer gets seriously injured the very next day. The network changing dates on them turned the plot points the other way around, which actually makes more sense to me. Dudebro gets hurt, figures he need help, dudebro gets improvements.

He gets hurt in an attack on the mayor's office as himself though (I'm assuming, since the synopsis says that MS surprises Felicity with a visit to the hospital, so she must know that Ray was actually hurt, unless he's publicly The Atom), so it seems like his injuries aren't suit or superhero related, unless the synopsis is misleading.

[looptab]

If Felicity is completely away from the action and locked in that hospital room, I may jump on the GoAwayRay train. It would be like 304 all over again, all kinds of troubles and her away in CC-

[statsgirl]

Felicity does get caught in Quentin's net though, when he's in the lair and says to Oliver "I've got you now", Felicity and Diggle (I think) are coming down the stairs behind Oliver.  Maybe Ray does something that gets her released.

Are we convinced mama Smoak will talk to Felicity about Oliver? I mean unless Felicity drops very serious hints about her feelings, I'd think mama would be happy with Felicity's new guy.

She's going to know how Felicity feels about the two guys without being told. That's her Mother Superpower.  (That was snarky and yet I fully expect it to happen.)

 

They have to do something to make Felicity think that Ray is not The One by this point, and we know how this show writes for plot..

Edited March 23, 2015 by statsgirl

[calliope1975]

She's going to know how Felicity feels about the two guys without being told. That's her Mother Superpower.  (That was snarky and yet I fully expect it to happen.)

 

They have to do something to make Felicity think that Ray is not The One by this point, and we know how this show writes for plot..

 

I'd like to think that though Mama Smoke was charmed by Ray when she met him, she saw the crazy eyes, and was much more impressed by her super hot future son-in-law when she met him at the club. 

[Belinea]

Didn't EBR said though that her mom is super excited about her and Ray? I think it was in one of those interviews for Paley. Or maybe that was meant in a sarcastic fashion. Maybe Mama will tell her why Ray is so perfect and Felicity might realize why he is not really all that perfect for her. I assume they are still a couple in 3x19. After that who knows. Maybe Ray is the one to break up with her because she gets into trouble and gets hurt and he has difficulties protecting her. I still want it to be Felicity but I could even see them still being together in 3x21 and 3x22. Just based on Ray's limited circle of actual characters he interacts with.

[kismet]

Maybe Mama Smoak gets put on babysitting duties like she did in the previous episode, only this time its Ray instead of Lil Sara. Perhaps Mama Smoak then tries to reason with her daughter that if Ray was an emotional priority perhaps she should be in the hospital and not wherever else she feels the need to be. I don't think MS will weigh in on one guy vs the other. But I think using her Mother's intuition or superpower (I liked Statsgirl's idea) to try to make he daughter actually self-reflect and find what/who is brings her happiness. Then the next episode brings them to CC, where FS may begin to recognize that whatever this something is with Ray, her mind/heart is somewhere else.

 

I also wonder if RP is being brought to CC as a test of loyalty/fealty to see if he is worthy to join the Arrow/Flash team. Perhaps FS & OQ have their questions about his true intentions and will bring him to Barry to get an outside opinion on him. I was thinking about it earlier and it has really bothered me that RP has done nothing to prove why he is trustworthy. I mean say what you will about LL's skill level, but OQ & TA have known her for years & she's proven her loyalty & worth to the team prior to becoming BC. Roy was also placed in a gradual initiation to prove his trust & worth. The only reason why he was brought into the foundry sooner than OQ have planned was that he was injected with Mirakuru. If I was on TA, there has been nothing that RP has done or been put through that makes me think he should join the team or would be loyal. And now his first mission out  as Atom is going to be bringing TA down? I realize the whole copycats things will confuse him. But still, he has a lot to prove to TA. Maybe part of his trip to CC will be to have him prove his loyalties & worth. Barry would be a good impartial judge of character that OQ can trust. FS vouching for RP is not enough for OQ & TA to just accept him.

[apinknightmare]

Judging by that preview, all the good feels from this last ep are going to be gone. DAMN YOU AND YOUR SUIT, RAY PALMER.

[wonderwall]

So from that clip I'm guessing Felicity tells Oliver and the team about Ray and his suit. I think this is after Ray vows to take Oliver and the Arrow down which I think is a good call for the writers. It doesn't put Felicity in an awkward or bad position and shows that her allegiances are with the Arrow 100%

Edited March 23, 2015 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

So from that clip I'm guessing Felicity tells Oliver and the team about Ray and his suit. I think this is after Ray vows to take Oliver and the Arrow down which I think is a good call for the writers. It doesn't put Felicity in an awkward or bad position and shows that her allegiances are with the Arrow 100%

 

 

Yeah, hopefully it plays out that way. I was worried that she'd admit to knowing about it after Oliver and Ray already faced off, but since Oliver is in street clothes and not his Arrow suit, that seems to not be the case.

 

Also, I wonder if Oliver exploits some kind of weakness in the suit (arrow to an electrical panel or something) that makes them go to Central City to get it fixed with the helps of the smarties at STAR Labs?

Edited March 23, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

Yeah, hopefully it plays out that way. I was worried that she'd admit to knowing about it after Oliver and Ray already faced off, but since Oliver is in street clothes and not his Arrow suit, that seems to not be the case.

 

Judging from her top, it looks like the same one she's wearing in her scene with Ray. So my guess is she leaves Ray's office to warn Oliver about him. Also Roy is way too calm (and awesome) for it to be after O/R have their faceoff :D I'M TRYING SO HARD NOT TO BE OPTIMISTIC I SWEAR

Edited March 23, 2015 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

Judging from her top, it looks like the same one she's wearing in her scene with Ray. So my guess is she leaves Ray's office to warn Oliver about him. :D I'M TRYING SO HARD NOT TO BE OPTIMISTIC I SWEAR

 

Haha, I really hope she does!

[Carrie Ann]

So she tells Oliver and Roy, but then they all decide to continue to keep TA a secret from Ray?

[apinknightmare]

So she tells Oliver and Roy, but then they all decide to continue to keep TA a secret from Ray?

 

I thought maybe Oliver would tell Ray he was the Arrow in order to get him to realize there were copycats running around, but I guess not. Seems like it'd be smart to keep TA under wraps until they're sure that Ray's not going to turn them all in?

[SonofaBiscuit]

Sigh.  So, the writers made Ray a roadblock to Olicity, and now they think that it's a good idea to pit him against the Arrow?  Uh, no.  Things like this do not make your audience root for the new guy.  I think I'll catch anything worthwhile on Tumblr.  

[Carrie Ann]

I thought maybe Oliver would tell Ray he was the Arrow in order to get him to realize there were copycats running around, but I guess not. Seems like it'd be smart to keep TA under wraps until they're sure that Ray's not going to turn them all in?

 

Yeah, but it would be as easy as Felicity saying, "Okay, about these Arrow murders...uh, that's not actually Oliver Queen, that's a group that's out to ruin his life?" I mean, I'm assuming this is all coming out by the end of the episode, but I don't get why they'd assume Ray would not believe Felicity if she explained the situation to him. Except, plot stupid, obviously.

[dtissagirl]

They're lucky Stephen's face behaves like that, seriously. His look says everything to Felicity. YOU'RE DATING A SUPERHERO? HE HAS A ROBOT ARMOR? AND YOU DIDN'T TELL ME?!

[wonderwall]

Yeah, but it would be as easy as Felicity saying, "Okay, about these Arrow murders...uh, that's not actually Oliver Queen, that's a group that's out to ruin his life?" I mean, I'm assuming this is all coming out by the end of the episode, but I don't get why they'd assume Ray would not believe Felicity if she explained the situation to him. Except, plot stupid, obviously.

 

I mean I understand why Felicity wouldn't want to compromise her position in Team Arrow by telling Ray that Ray isn't a murderer. Would Ray really believe Felicity after lying to him by omission about being with TA? IDK It just goes to show that Felicity doesn't know Ray or trust him enough with the truth. 

 

But yeah, it's stupid plot. You'd think that Felicity should tell Ray that the Arrow is a good person and that there has to be another explanation and that Ray shouldn't just jump to conclusions... but alas, we need to make Ray relevant? 

Edited March 23, 2015 by wonderwall

[looptab]

I wonder how does he find out? What will that scene with Laurel be about? Why do they have to get rid of Roy now that I'm starting to actually love him? Questionsssssss

[kismet]

They're lucky Stephen's face behaves like that, seriously. His look says everything to Felicity. YOU'RE DATING A SUPERHERO? HE HAS A ROBOT ARMOR? AND YOU DIDN'T TELL ME?!

Isn't that the truth! SA face and overall acting choices have saved many a doomed plot hole or poor script moment from being even worse than they could've been.

[kismet]

Loved Roy's reaction though, RH/CH are great at being part of the team. I love that he just interjects the funniest things at the randomest time. I would miss him if they took him away. I think he provides a good energy to TA. His role does not overshadow the team but it feels just right.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, but it would be as easy as Felicity saying, "Okay, about these Arrow murders...uh, that's not actually Oliver Queen, that's a group that's out to ruin his life?" I mean, I'm assuming this is all coming out by the end of the episode, but I don't get why they'd assume Ray would not believe Felicity if she explained the situation to him. Except, plot stupid, obviously.

 

Well, I think it depends on how Ray knows that Oliver is the Arrow. I can definitely see why Felicity would want to go to Oliver and let him know that Ray has that information before she does anything, like...are they going to try to deny it? Can it be denied? How much do they want to expose regarding who's working with him? I mean, if Felicity tells Ray that's not Oliver, isn't he going to want to know how she knows that? Better to take a time out and form a plan, I think.

[wonderwall]

I really hope that this is a scene where Felicity breaks up with Ray. Please please please please please please please

 

[Soulfire]

Going with the stills of Team Arrow (Diggle, Felicity and Roy) at the police station, I'm guessing Oliver gets arrested in this episode.