Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ComicFan777]

What I really liked about the first half of season 4 were the Oliver/Felicity talks because they grounded all the events of each episode and told us what Oliver was thinking.  I personally think that Oliver's heart really shines through and things seems so much more meaningful whenever he talks to Felicity even about everyday stuff, so I am a bit disappointed to hear lack of scenes between them.

I guess the back half will be lots of Oliver/Laurel and Oliver/Diggle talks.   

 

Does the Stanley cup have anything to do with the show (recent photos of SA, KC, DR)?

 

Do we have any clues as to what is next for the Diggles?

 

For 4.18, all I got was maybe Lance/Laurel flashbacks?

Edited February 16, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Midnight Lullaby]

Since SA doesn't have any significant upcoming scenes with EBR post breakup, it doesn't seem like he is trying to patch things up with her which is surprising to me.  I would have expected to hear that there would be heart-to-heart talks, groveling, or some major effort put into it on his part.  I mean, I think it is weird now that "Guilt Arrow" isn't showing any indication of outward guilt except for that timeline mention to Laurel - his compartmentalizing abilities are kinda scary and a bit disturbing on the mental health side of things.  

 

Is it just Oliver hanging with Diggle and Laurel for the rest of the season and then suddenly they decide to get back together as suddenly as Oliver decided to be a liar?

To me instead Oliver not fighting for Felicity would be the least surprising thing ever. It happened last year as well until he decided to change his mind in the last episode. There's never a natural progression on Arrow, things just happen..

Also since MG seems to be so adamant to defend his stupid SL and he insists Oliver was forced, defying any logic, so I'm afraid they could go down this road and (when the plot allows her) Felicity will understand why he lied and believe, for unknown reasons, that she should trust him again.

[Belinea]

How do you guys think Laurel will react to the BM news? I know I'd still be angry even if it happened 10 years ago. I'd hold that grudge. But maybe I am just a meaner person.

[tangerine95]

I really doubt they don't have scenes outside the team stuff.I bet they'll milk this angst for all its worth and I think we'll see Oliver either be all resigned and pining like last season or try to regain her trust.Hopefully its not like last season because whats the point if they don't make at least a different kind of angst.I think what he meant by be adults about it is they'll still be on the team together and it won't affect that they both want to save the city.There was a heavy focus on olicity last season,I would be suprised if its not at least the same or more this season considering how serious their relationship has become.Also they know olicity scenes bring in the buzz so I doubt they'll give that up while they're broken up.I mean in the episode after the break up they're doing a hallucination wedding lol.

[ComicFan777]

Yeah, I guess, Oliver hasn't fought for Felicity before, so it wouldn't be too surprising if he doesn't again.  I guess I had hoped that Oliver 2.0 would show up and somehow be a stand-up guy about it. 

 

All of Oliver's decisions surrounding BMD has been completely non-sensical, so I guess a non-sensical solution would come out of it, too.

How do you guys think Laurel will react to the BM news? I know I'd still be angry even if it happened 10 years ago. I'd hold that grudge. But maybe I am just a meaner person.

 

Wasn't there an interview where KC said something like you would be surprised that LL embraces someone you wouldn't think she would?  I would imagine she was referring to BM or William.

[Morrigan2575]

I'd be surprised if she got more than a single comment about it.

[Midnight Lullaby]

How do you guys think Laurel will react to the BM news? I know I'd still be angry even if it happened 10 years ago. I'd hold that grudge. But maybe I am just a meaner person.

KC in an interview said that LL will embrace someone people don't expect and my feeling is she was talking about BM. I would be pissed if I was in her place because Oliver is supposed to be her friend now so I would expect a friend to come clean and apologize for being the worst boyfriend in the universe. Obviously though since he didn't even tell his fiancée it's kind of pointless, lol.

[Ann Mack]

Some insight may be provided in episode 4x16 (Broken Hearts) for both Oliver and Felicity. Then again knowing these writers they're referring to Lance and Donna. I seriously can't sometimes with the lack of character knowledge, failure to see how some of these characters impact their audience, and complete unemotional attachment these writers and showrunners have for its own characters. I think they care but don't truly grasp how OOC they write them just for plot the majority of the time. IMO if the audience (who love Olicity) don't see some interaction or attempts for reconciliation by 4x18 or 4x19 at the latest a lot of episodes may be going straight to DVR. I really hope the show gets its shit together I say that as an Olicity,Felicity,Oliver,Diggle, OTA lover/watcher.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Ann Mack

[lemotomato]

For me, the worst thing SA could've said about the breakup is that they're "going to handle it like adults" because that's exactly how he described the Olicity interactions in season 3 after their post-date "breakup". So that means them working together, but not talking to each other and not trying to fix or address what broke them up. SA seems to think that compartmentalizing is the "grown up" thing to do. Who wants messy drama like Oliver actually working to rebuild Felicity's trust, right?

[NumberCruncher]

Well considering if this was real life, I doubt Oliver and Felicity would be working together at all so if this is what it takes to keep Felicity part of the team then by all means--handle it like adults.

[looptab]

I agree with tangerine95, I think he means that they'll keep working together. Fingers crossed that there's more than that. 

 

About Laurel embracing someone unexpected, part of me wants it to be Vixen, the other part wants it to be BM, so I can laugh my ass off because they are trying to make her Mother Theresa. I'm sure she'll have compassion for Samantha's situation -  and whatever happens to that poor kid - but if it's more than that...yeah, no.

[kismet]

For me, I'm not going to stress myself over how they repatch O/F back together. I was there a few weeks ago, primarily by the wheelchair plot for plot sake but also the stupidity of the contrived drama. However, I completely understand people being worried or stressed over it.

 

For me, the original lie was not that horrible because he did not outwardly lie rather he withheld the truth, couple that with the ultimatum and the fact that we know OQ really wanted to tell her. I also could understand and forgive his actions because in his compartmentalizing & scarred brain he was doing what he needed to do to 1. protect all his relationships, 2. have a relationship with his son and 3. try to be honorable to promises he made.

 

What is making it hard for me to justify or forgive his behavior is that last week MM threatened his child, thereby putting his safety at risk. For me, that fact that MM knows about his son and OQ does nothing about it to protect him by telling his fiancee/team/bm is pretty close to not forgivable. That being said it also has flashing neon warning signs saying "FOR PLOT PURPOSES ONLY". I half expect Arrow to come up with scrolling microtext around this time every season to explain that what is happening is purely due to the writers inability to think of a quality storyline or lack of creativity/depth to the actual plot points of a storyline.

 

I think eventually FS will just forgive him and accept what he has done because she loves OQ and he made a mistake. His behavior was not malicious or done with the attempt to harm. And in his emotionally scarred and damaged mind, the original withholding was probably his only solution at the time. Sometimes love does trump over people's mistakes. As for trust him, well I'm not sure that will be easily repaired IRL or on the show. BUT I know that writers won't bother to address it, so I'll just have to handwave it or create my own head canon. At this point, I feel like the audience is more invested in the emotional health and well-being of O&F, so I'll look to them to help me through any of the rough patches.

~~~~~~

What I'm more concerned about is SA's comments that the show was only designed to be 5 years long and they have so much more FB story to tell. Does that mean that the writers are going to draw out the FB beyond the initial 5 years on the island??? If so, is that the reason this season's FB are so incredibly bad & boring because they were made up last minute to stretch the story out??? Because if that is the case, I worry for the next 2 seasons that have to rely on poorly constructed and planned FB. Never mind any seasons beyond that.

 

In my head there are only 2 more FB stories to tell Bratva & Castaway/Isolation OQ. I can see Bratva being 23+ episodes worthy. I can see Castaway/Isolation OQ being interesting for half a season. However, I cannot see them making year after year of FB. And I cringe at what so much story is left to be told. Because this season all they've essentially did is give him a hair cut, a new tattoo and hallucinate Shado again. That's like a long weekend for pre-island Ollie. Perhaps they need to regroup as a team with TPTB and map out exactly how many seasons they actually have for the show and plan accordingly. Because if this season is any indication, the writers are really bad at coming up with interesting FB stories and characters that help stretch out the plot. Moving fwd, I'm not sure the show can survive multiple years of weakily designed & acted FB, not if they are a weekly occurrence because reasons.

Edited February 16, 2016 by kismet

[Chaser]

I'm wondering about that comment about them not working together much. We know that they were the only ones filming a couple weeks ago for 4x17 (GA at Palmer Tech/EBR with the Coffee Cart gift). One person in the audience thought he may have been trolling a bit. I haven't watched the clip. Did anyone else get that impression?

 

I don't really expect this split to be too long. I'm assuming things thaw a bit after the death, which I'm still thinking is 4x18. So 16/17/18?

[Ann Mack]

Just putting this out there. when it came to his confrontation with Malcolm - Oliver was ALL about finding a 3rd option hmm. Wonder why the show (well I know it's for plot sake) but that point gets really defeated by the point that Oliver was willing to try and find a 3rd option when given an ultimatum about seeing his son and lying to the women he loves and intends to build a future with. Also, this "Oliver begins to feel guilty" well look at that, it happens the episode prior to or during the episode when the shit hits the fan. Trying now to add a layer of sympathy (yes he wanted to tell her from the beginning but he didn't) to his keeping the secret from her. Oh well his is the direction they are going and therefore we as an audience are stuck with it!

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'm wondering about that comment about them not working together much. We know that they were the only ones filming a couple weeks ago for 4x17 (GA at Palmer Tech/EBR with the Coffee Cart gift). One person in the audience thought he may have been trolling a bit. I haven't watched the clip. Did anyone else get that impression?

 

I don't really expect this split to be too long. I'm assuming things thaw a bit after the death, which I'm still thinking is 4x18. So 16/17/18?

I didn't get the impression he was trolling to be honest. That fan asked him about the video he promised he was going to do with Emily to thank the fans for the award they won for them back in July. He said that he knows it isn't an excuse for not doing it before but lately he and Emily haven't been filming together a lot. I didn't get the impression he was trying to troll but just trying to explain himself.

[Belinea]

I have no problems with the show's flashbacks being over after 5 years. Obviously they only had those 5 years for flashbacks and probably thought of some aspects of those beforehand. However, I doubt that they stayed fully on track with them. I think they have some points and they know we have to see how he gets to be the Oliver we saw in the pilot. 

 

I could live without the flashbacks already. They are never interesting anymore to me and usually take me out of the story. The only thing I wonder is how Oliver will grow his hair in that year to be as long as it was in the pilot. 

 

If Laurel embraces the BM, I can only imagine that they are trying to make her seem as though she is just a forgiving person, however she'd probably come across as even more of an idiot where Oliver and his treatment of her is concerned and she truly does not need more of that nor does she deserve that. 

 

BTW: Listening to JB's DC interview makes me somewhat ragey. IMO Malcolm isn't a misunderstood hero but a sociopath. He killed hundreds of people and he doesn't feel bad about that.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Belinea

[apinknightmare]

He was definitely looking for a reaction from the audience from that statement, but who knows if he was trolling. Since EBR's scenes are filmed separately when the team is out in the field, O&F could be working together on Team Arrow through the comms even though SA&EBR aren't on set at the same time. 

[ComicFan777]

I think it would drive me crazy is if they started just doing flash forwards all the time instead of flashbacks.  I don't know if this flash forward is a test of whether they should focus more on flash forwards rather than flashbacks.

[tv echo]

Here's all I've got for 418 so far...

 

S4, Episode 18: Eleven-Fifty-Nine
-- Production code: 418.  Director: Rob Hardy.  Shoot Dates: Feb. 12 - 23, 2016.  Airdate: Mar. 30, 2016?.  (MG tweet, page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per MG, 418 began shooting on Feb. 12, 2016. (MG tweet, page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- MG's Billy Joel song pick for 418 is "Famous Last Words." (MG tumblr post, page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- PB posted pic of Quentin wearing a wig (flashback?) on Feb. 12. (PB tweet, page 316 of Social Media thread)
-- Arrow was filming at Vancouver Community College on East Broadway on Feb. 17-18 (with "Queen for Mayor 2016" pic).  (YVRShoots tweet, page 31 of Spoilers thread)

[Morrigan2575]

I think MG really just picks Billy Joel song titles that match the episode even if the song meaning/lyrics don't line up (case in point Only the Good Die Young).

 

However, to be safe.  Famous Last Words is the last track on the River of Dreams Album;  this was basically Billy announcing that he was done writing songs and retiring from that aspect of his life (for now).  

[looptab]

He was definitely looking for a reaction from the audience from that statement, but who knows if he was trolling. Since EBR's scenes are filmed separately when the team is out in the field, O&F could be working together on Team Arrow through the comms even though SA&EBR aren't on set at the same time. 

I thought he could be trolling as in "actually we've been shooting together as much as we always have", implying that there are at least some one on one convos with the two of them post break-up. I think that's where the doubt is? Otherwise, that they would be working together less than usual it's pretty much a given, since they shoot mission scenes as you explained above, and they're broken up.

Edited February 16, 2016 by looptab

[kes0704]

I'm really curious about how they will go about restoring broken trust between Oliver and Felicity. Hypothetically speaking, if O/F got back together, and BM was still in the picture, how would Felicity ever be able to trust that Oliver wouldn't lie to her again if BM told him he had to and dangled something to do with his son over his head?

I know I'm applying logical thought to a completely illogical story but if it were me, I know I would always be suspicious.

If there was ever a time to not burn through plot it's now because I need to understand the character motivations in all of this. I really hope that we hear both Oliver and Felicity's thought processes and points of view and it's not just glossed over or one sided.

[apinknightmare]

I thought he could be trolling as in "actually we've been shooting together as much as we always have", implying that there are at least some one on one convos with the two of them post break-up. I think that's where the doubt is? Otherwise, that they would be working together less than usual it's pretty much a given, since they shoot mission scenes as you explained above, and they're broken up.

 

Seems to me it's pretty likely that he's telling the truth and they just aren't shooting together as much as they previously have - and that what little time they are on set together is for team scenes or short one-on-ones. 

[dtissagirl]

Forgetting real life for a minute, and just thinking about it from a literary standpoint -- renewed trust is the end point of this conflict. There is no way Felicity doesn't go back to trusting Oliver -- she will. And that only takes two things: 1. time, and 2. consistent behavior from Oliver of the NOT EVER LYING TO FELICITY AGAIN variety. That's it.

 

The problem here is not Felicity nor Oliver, it's Arrow. Because 1. Arrow doesn't take time to do anything ever -- they haven't found a plot they couldn't burn through at light speed, and I don't see that changing. And 2. For Oliver to have consistent behavior they'll have to stop writing him as plot-driven, and that hasn't ever happened either.

[Genki]

I'm really curious about how they will go about restoring broken trust between Oliver and Felicity. Hypothetically speaking, if O/F got back together, and BM was still in the picture, how would Felicity ever be able to trust that Oliver wouldn't lie to her again if BM told him he had to and dangled something to do with his son over his head?

I know I'm applying logical thought to a completely illogical story but if it were me, I know I would always be suspicious.

If there was ever a time to not burn through plot it's now because I need to understand the character motivations in all of this. I really hope that we hear both Oliver and Felicity's thought processes and points of view and it's not just glossed over or one sided.

 

For me it would be more of a worry if he cheated, then it would be a "how can she trust him again situation. I pretty sure he would never lie again to prevent any future break-up. He omits the truth all the time, however....

 

I hope the outcome results in Oliver opening up more to Felicity about his past, I want more of that. It would show lesson learnt.

[looptab]

Seems to me it's pretty likely that he's telling the truth and they just aren't shooting together as much as they previously have - and that what little time they are on set together is for team scenes or short one-on-ones. 

I re-read your previous post -sorry, I had misunderstood you and thought you were saying they weren't shooting together at all. I do think their shared screen time will decrease, thus less shooting together, but thinking Stephen was trolling it's a nice thought to behold during these dark times :)

 

The sad part is we don't even have a way to figure it out, because  Stephen and Emily never post photos when they shoot together. :/

[Morrigan2575]

I know I'm in the minority but I don't want them back together by 423 just to rush a reunion for the season finale.  That could change depending on how the breakup happens but I'd be perfectly content with them not getting back together until 501.  Then again, I'm still annoyed the Felicity forgave Oliver in 323 after that LoA/Ra's shit and gave up her life in SC to runaway with him.  

[ComicFan777]

Truthfully, I would want to see some sort of glimmer of them working it out by the end of the season - I don't want Oliver and Felicity to be distant-ish over the summer and having him become best buds with Laurel. 

[Chaser]

I love that DR and Echo are admitting they know who is in the grave and SA is still playing clueless.

[Midnight Lullaby]

For me it would be more of a worry if he cheated, then it would be a "how can she trust him again situation. I pretty sure he would never lie again to prevent any future break-up. He omits the truth all the time, however....

 

I hope the outcome results in Oliver opening up more to Felicity about his past, I want more of that. It would show lesson learnt.

He didn't cheat but he has been lying to her for months. That's pretty bad for me. And he is going behind her back in a moment of her life when she is vulnerable..she is in a wheelchair and can't even go into her bedroom without his help and her dad just reappeared in her life.

Also he is about to make her a step mom without her knowledge because he is currently showing no issues in asking her to marry him now. What if the secret didn't come out? He was going to marry her, start a family with her and have a second family in another city. That's just gross.

I think the problem won't be forgiving him because Felicity loves him, but trusting him is another thing. Because after he lied to her for months and she never had a clue it would be normal to wonder "is he lying to me now?" the next time he tells her something and that's no life.

I don't know what Oliver can do to gain her trust back and I'm not sure the writers realize it might be important to address it before putting them back together.

[Morrigan2575]

Truthfully, I would want to see some sort of glimmer of them working it out by the end of the season - I don't want Oliver and Felicity to be distant-ish over the summer and having him become best buds with Laurel. 

I have no problem with them starting to work it out or a talk about taking it slow etc in 423 with a full blown reunion happening in 501.

 

I just don't want them to be right back to where they were in 413/414.  I guess my thing is I want them to go slow.  However, I do understand that Arrow doesn't do slow.

[dtissagirl]

I'd rather have the reunion in 423, because if it happens in 501, I'll feel robbed of the offscreenville time they spend rebuilding the trust, just like I still feel robbed of not seeing the Summer of Flirty Flirt between 223 and 301.

[kismet]

I don't care when they reconnect or get back together because I think we're going to be robbed of the best moments anyway. If it happens between 420-423, we're gonna get one good love scene (perhaps) squeezed into the conclusion of the story arcs just like last year. No big character moments beyond that scene just plot, with a little sprinkling of character moments. If its in 501 or over the summer we are going to be robbed of those touching/sweet moments like between s2-3. There is really no good option.

 

Honestly, I just hope by the time they finish their for plot purposes they haven't ruined the characters or why I loved the couple in the first place. Or make it so I have to handwave or mentally spin a lot of stuff to make things okay again. I know I have to accept certain things with this show and these writers. I just wish they learn their lessons for next season.

Edited February 16, 2016 by kismet

[Morrigan2575]

Eh, not that big of a deal

Edited February 16, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Per CR's Instagram post, unless O&F have a you-think-it's-an-engagement-party-but-surprise-it's-a-wedding kind of thing going on, it makes me LOL that they're having an engagement party when the just decided to get married really soon. But I guess that's this show for ya.

[bijoux]

It's the headline of an interview she did with Green Arrow TV and they discuss Donna's thoughts on the wedding and the possibility of elopement. I don't think it necessarily indicates an engagement party at all. Although there should be some party given that we've seen pics of EBR with an updo more elaborate than a ponytail.

[apinknightmare]

It's the headline of an interview she did with Green Arrow TV and they discuss Donna's thoughts on the wedding and the possibility of elopement. I don't think it necessarily indicates an engagement party at all. Although there should be some party given that we've seen pics of EBR with an updo more elaborate than a ponytail.

 

She wrote "engagement party excitement" in her Instagram post about the interview.

[dtissagirl]

It does go with the fact that Oliver's solution to everything is to throw a party.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'm counting on Charlotte to tell us who is in the grave next, lol

Engagement party is good..at least it isn't a surprise wedding! That I wouldn't have put past Oliver at this point..

[bijoux]

She wrote "engagement party excitement" in her Instagram post about the interview.

Thanks. Note to self - pay attention reading, don't skim.

[apinknightmare]

Thanks. Note to self - pay attention reading, don't skim.

 

LOL, I do it all the time!

[Carrie Ann]

I mean, if you think about it, nothing could make more sense on Arrow than throwing a party to celebrate your larger, more important party yet to come.

[EmilyBettFan]

I have a dreadful feeling that they will be at the lair but because of the didferent areas will be secluded from each other. Kind of like the Overlord scene.

[EmilyBettFan]

I just find it odd... You can get the Stanley cup to come to set but can't take a video that's been promised since July of last year for the fans who won that award for you. SMH

[statsgirl]

At this point, all I want is for Oliver to fight for Felicity because he's never fought for her before, and for this storyline not to drag out too long.

 

I can even take Laurel taking Samantha and William out for milkshakes and french fries.

[Primal Slayer]

I just find it odd... You can get the Stanley cup to come to set but can't take a video that's been promised since July of last year for the fans who won that award for you. SMH

How did fans win them the Stanley cup?

[Lady Calypso]

I think MG really just picks Billy Joel song titles that match the episode even if the song meaning/lyrics don't line up (case in point Only the Good Die Young).

 

However, to be safe.  Famous Last Words is the last track on the River of Dreams Album;  this was basically Billy announcing that he was done writing songs and retiring from that aspect of his life (for now).  

 

Hey, maybe he's in OUR River of Dreams and he's telling us that he's done running the show and he's going to retire that aspect of his life! 

 

I know I'm in the minority but I don't want them back together by 423 just to rush a reunion for the season finale.  That could change depending on how the breakup happens but I'd be perfectly content with them not getting back together until 501.  Then again, I'm still annoyed the Felicity forgave Oliver in 323 after that LoA/Ra's shit and gave up her life in SC to runaway with him.  

 

I was not actually happy with Felicity running away with Oliver in 323 either, I'll be honest. It ended up being better than I hoped, but I do think the Ra's thing, as much as I understood and partially agreed with him lying (and am just glad him and Diggle made up with him quickly because Diggle getting mad about Oliver leaving Sara alone for like half an hour, although bad, is not THAT bad to break off trust for), I just wanted Felicity to be mad for a bit, maybe yell at him more. I wanted them to stay in Star City as a couple, or not as a couple. But then 401 happened, and I just felt more robbed of the Olicity Adventures Around the World. 

 

The only way this storyline will work itself out is if Oliver fights for Felicity. He has to fight for her, which means he has to do things that he wouldn't do. But judging by the spoilers, the showrunners give jack shit about that aspect and they're probably going to ignore those scenes in favour for 'more dramatic scenes'. Then, it'll feel entirely contrived when they do get together. It becomes so hard because those decisions affect the characters, and I can't believe that Oliver, who has actually grown a lot, wouldn't fight his hardest for Felicity, knowing that she makes him happy and he can have a future with her. It's like I can't believe Oliver would continue to lie to Felicity about his child just because Baby Mama says so. At least, not entirely. It's all dumb; where do we cross the line between character and creator/writer? 

[EmilyBettFan]

How did fans win them the Stanley cup?

I'm talking about the Ship of the Year award video he promised.

It seems like it's easier for him to get big things on set but doing a video that he promised is almost impossible.

[Belinea]

It seems like it's easier for him to get big things on set but doing a video that he promised is almost impossible.

Well, I guess it also depends on what you want to do. I assume that is something he personally is really excited about. (Regardless of whether or not, he did it for the crew.) also I think he and EBR haven't interacted much publicly because of all the trash that some people put out there. Something tells me he really, really hates that.

[EmilyBettFan]

Yeah I guess so. Maybe he shouldn't promise things. Plus really how hard is it to make a video? He can even have David Ramsey there if he doesn't want to be alone with Emily.

He did that one video with her and it was fine. I'm just perplexed that he can get the Stanley cup there but it's taking forever for a video.