Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, this Flash episode is co-written by Kai Wu who also co-wrote the first Felicity crossover, which was also really OOC, IMO.

[kismet]

"You never know.  The "rigorous transformation." could mean brainwashing or something so that Oliver is Evil Al-Saheem (however it's spelled) and this is going to be Team Arrow vs Oliver/LOA."

 

He went through torture and deprivation that would pretty much break anyone and came out of it determined to make up for his and his father's sins.  I think his mind is a little tougher than that.  Plus, most of 20 is Olicity sex and Thea stuff, 22 is some kind of quasi-good stuff based on the title and lyrics to the title's song, F22 he's helping Barry, then 23 he takes back his name.  So if he's brainwashed, it lasts an episode.  That's pretty shoddy brainwashing.

Pretty shoddy can explain most of their reasoning and rationale this season.... so why start building up solid logic & foundation now? I can't imagine Oliver even as Al Shaheem going after Nyssa unless he has been brainwashed or something bad. Or like someone else mentioned maybe this will be when he yells at them to obey him & he tries to stop the assassination.

[Chaser]

Yeah, this Flash episode is co-written by Kai Wu who also co-wrote the first Felicity crossover, which was also really OOC, IMO.

What about the first one was OOC?

[AyChihuahua]

Or it's a ploy, and he's pretending to go along with all this LOA crap until his plan comes to fruition.  To some extent the plot requires the LOA to turn on Nyssa, because Nyssa really needs to help take down her father.  I still, really, think she'll end up striking the death blow.  As of last week she was still loyal, so plot-wise it works.  I just absolutely will not ever watch if Oliver really, in his heart, joins the LOA.  That is a villain's journey, not a hero's.  Ra's is behind everything bad that has happened to him recently and will probably murder Thea.  If Oliver decides for any reason that's a group he really wants to be a part of, he's just as bad as they are.  He needs to be thinking about his way out the whole time he's joining up.

[ostentatious]

Viewers of both shows will think Felicity is a ridiculous, disloyal, and pretty flaky person (with, in this episode, very unfortunate hair).  And I'd guess that the large majority of viewers don't follow spoilers or EPs and have no idea, unless they build an explanation into the episode.

 

Don't forget "desperate," considering the way she hangs all over a guy who barely even looks at her. 

[Carrie Ann]

What about the first one was OOC?

 

I'd have to rewatch to pinpoint it, and I deleted it. But I don't think it was OOC in a character-damaging way; just that she didn't feel like Felicity to me. Too goofy and bubbly, and the dress she wore to Trivia Night at a coffee shop...

[kismet]

I'll be curious to see if people who quit Arrow are left wondering what in the hell happened to Felicity.  The writers have done such a disservice to her character.  Also, The Flash audience likes Barry.  It's probably not a good strategy to get the audience to like the new guy by asking a character who holds viewers loyalties if he's jealous of said new guy.  Huh? 

Let's not forget their strategy on Arrow was to have the new guy come in and literally take (steal some might say) everything that matters to Oliver Queen away from him and then top it off with funding a manhunt to formally take the Arrow down & bring him to RP's version of justice. Thereby finally destroying the Arrow too, not just OQ.Their strategic planning for Ray Palmer entry into this dctv universe has been seriously questionable from the beginning. I am only surprised they haven't made the suit run really fast, while at the same time having RP buy Iris's newspaper & jitters just so he has something to read & a place to do it in CC.

[apinknightmare]

I just absolutely will not ever watch if Oliver really, in his heart, joins the LOA.  

 

Hopefully this O/F scene on a jet will include some kind of breakdown where Oliver finally grieves and maybe laments about things he wanted in his life and won't get to have because he has to join up to save his sister and Felicity will give him another one of those little "make him outthink you" nuggets 'o wisdom that's some foreshadowing that we won't realize until later. Something that makes Oliver strike some kind of a deal with Nyssa where they both play her father and win.

[Sunshine]

You never know.  The "rigorous transformation." could mean brainwashing or something so that Oliver is Evil Al-Saheem (however it's spelled) and this is going to be Team Arrow vs Oliver/LOA.  With the ending being Oliver waking up from his "rigorous transformation." and coming back to himself.

I somehow missed this post when I posed my question. You answered before I asked. :)

[steeledwithakiss]

I'd have to rewatch to pinpoint it, and I deleted it. But I don't think it was OOC in a character-damaging way; just that she didn't feel like Felicity to me. Too goofy and bubbly, and the dress she wore to Trivia Night at a coffee shop...

She looked a little too eager to date Barry then too. I guess people who watch only The Flash are going to think Felicity is really desperate for a boyfriend. I think Felicity just wants to be in a realtionship very bad because she's trying desperately to move on. She was not like that before s3, but maybe it's a new character trait. I'm not totally against it, it can be a flaw she has. When she wants to move on she enters a big state of denial (her changing looks after Cooper's death) and since she wants to keep working with Oliver because she believes in the mission, she decided the boyfriend thing could work.

[statsgirl]

While the group cross-over episodes worked really well, I think the individual cross-overs are going to backfire on them.  Many Flash viewers already don't like Felicity because they think she takes time away from Iris and I don't think this one is going to do her any favors.  We'll see how the Laurel one works but I wonder how much they'll like her on the Flash and whether they'll want her back as the float.

 

Or it's a ploy, and he's pretending to go along with all this LOA crap until his plan comes to fruition.

But that wouldn't change Oliver's relationship with Diggle permanently, would it?  I mean, Diggle would be pissed off that Oliver didn't tell him but he'd get over it.

 

I thought 320 would save the season for me, but it just digs itself deeper and deeper into the hole.  It's going to take sheer brilliance to get out of it now, and I have my doubts whether one scene on a place and one in the sultan's digs is going to do it.

It's like Felicity turns into a completely different person when she's around Ray.

She turns into Laurel.  Isn't that a line you could hear Laurel saying to Oliver if he was suspicious about someone she was dating because everyone is just so smitten with her and the only possible reason you could for not liking a guy is that you're jealous.

Yeah, it's fast and I think they should have kept Ray/Felicity as a flirtation instead of a full blown relationship, but what's done is done. In my opinion, Oliver/Felicity have fully earned that moment in 3x20, so I'm not that upset with how fast all of this is happening. 

They could still have saved it by not making Felicity an airhead around him in 118 when they got a lot of flack to 315 when she got needy and slept with him, and maybe there was even time to tweak after 317 when people hated that she apologized to him..

[BkWurm1]

I can tell the "he's like Barry in Oliver's body" line is going to be cringeworthy-er than I thought if the way Felicity is hanging on Ray in that promo is any indication. I also don't like that she asked Barry if he was jealous of Ray. Ugh. 

Her asking Barry if he was jealous comes off as teasing between friends, like she thinks it's hilarious. 

 

I don't think it's out of line, I just don't like it coming from her. Especially since she was pretty adamant that she and Barry weren't and wouldn't be a thing in the last crossover, so assuming Barry's jealous of Ray is pretty presumptuous. 

She really felt to me like she was saying it as a friend to Barry, not that he was romantically jealous, just a bit intimidated by the guy in the flying suit who is really tall.  And yeah, when did he get so tall?  I didn't remember thinking Felicity looked like a little girl hanging onto daddy's arm.   It's kind of cute though, she looks so pleased to share this dude with the other science geeks. 

 

I'm confused as to when this is happening. Is it right after ep 17 in Arrow or...because isn't Ray getting the suit fixed? Or upgraded? Don't you generally go for upgrades when you've tried it out (Arrow vs Atom fight) and find it needs a few things fixed?

It has to be between the make up (thus explaining the trying too hard to pretend everything is GREAT and clinging to him, IMO) but before going to the Mayor's office.   So Quentin is agitated and there are still copy cats running around but the city hasn't gone crazy yet. and the Mayor is keeping Lance in check.

 

I'd have to rewatch to pinpoint it, and I deleted it. But I don't think it was OOC in a character-damaging way; just that she didn't feel like Felicity to me. Too goofy and bubbly, and the dress she wore to Trivia Night at a coffee shop...

The dress was funny.  Clearly she was dressing for a Vegas trivia night, lol.   I found that first cross over very in character.   She was determined to try and see if she could solve her Oliver problem by getting herself to fall for Barry who she at one time did have a crush on but in the end all they were to each other was friends. 

 

I didn't see anything in the clip that bothered about Felicity (once I put it into the proper context and timeline).   I think Flash viewers that don't watch Arrow will just assume she's happy to be in a relationship.  They'll never know about why it's weird cause of the change in time line.  They might wonder about Oliver, but Oliver clearly said that he couldn't have the girl so that shouldn't be too much of a surprise. 

 

I'm rather looking forward to the episode.   At the very least we get Felicity interacting with more people besides Ray.  Other clips showed Barry confiding in her about the Dr. Wells problem too. 

[tarotx]

I think this Flash episode takes place after Ray's fight with Oliver but before the Mayor meeting where Ray gets hurt. I think I'm just going to think Felicity is over compensating with and About Ray in CC. But I'm not watching to know for sure. The Flarrow creative team has a hard on for A.T.O.M that I don't share.

Edited April 9, 2015 by tarotx

[Chaser]

Wow. I actually don't have a problem with that jealous line. I didn't read it as "Are you jealous he is with me?" I read it as "Are you jealous he is tall?" Teasing. Friendly. 

 

Hanging on the arm. I don't like that. It does look like desperate but not in a 'I have a Boyfriend!" way but in a "Please be nice to him, I know he isn't Oliver." So not a fan, but not as bad as I thought? I guess. Ugh

 

Remember 3.20. Remember 3x20. 

[AyChihuahua]

Slightly calmer after my drive home.  So, (1) I don't believe Oliver would be susceptible to brainwashing.  He's been shown to have a very strong mind and will, for going on eight years now; (2) Ra's wants an heir, not a puppet.  The drug Malcolm used on Thea turned her into a short-term puppet.  What is Ra's going to do, keep him drugged for the next 20 years until he's ready to hand over the reins...then what?  Somebody else puppets him?  (3) Ra's told Oliver he can order the LOA to stop killing, so this thing with Nyssa could be the big test.  It also could be a perfect opportunity for Oliver and Nyssa to come up with their plan.

 

To be clear, if he temporarily goes after Nyssa or "goes against" TA because they are protecting Nyssa, I can see that being him keeping up appearances.  But if he does anything to hurt TA, drugs or no drugs, I'm out.  I'm already both horrified and weirdly bored by this whole storyline...if it turns Oliver bad, even for an episode, then he's not the hero I thought he was.

[apinknightmare]

She really felt to me like she was saying it as a friend to Barry, not that he was romantically jealous, just a bit intimidated by the guy in the flying suit who is really tall.

Sorry, I disagree. If Felicity's "jealous" comment was in reference to something Barry said about Ray's brain or his suit, I'd be there with you. But he mentioned Ray's too tallness in context of him being Felicity's boyfriend, so the jealous remark definitely comes off as being about Ray being her boyfriend.

[Carrie Ann]

Also, in The Flash episode, Oliver at least seems to be helping Barry and doesn't seem like a robot when he says "Barry, move!" or something like that, so I think he's still Oliver. Just forced to be a part of the League for like an episode and a half.

[kismet]

I wonder why Arrow never bothered to make adjustments to their scripts that might have helped to explain the time gap. They could have kept the F/O cheek peck, but just have her going to catch RP's jet to CC. Thanks for proving me right, now we have to go visit Cisco since boys will be boys and now we need to fix the suit. Then all they literally would have had to do is flash a banner across the screen saying "one week later" and cut to the mayor's meeting. It seems like Arrow just doesn't really care to try to fix this mistake. They are content with blaming the network. Its just sad that they just didn't bother to adjust. Im not sure the Arrow team is all excited about these crossovers as the Flash & network are. It feels like a very Alpha dog move to just expect everyone else to fix the mistakes or just accept it.

[BkWurm1]

I'm already both horrified and weirdly bored by this whole storyline...if it turns Oliver bad, even for an episode, then he's not the hero I thought he was.

 

They keep hinting that he used to be far worse than anything we've seen and that the flashbacks will have him getting darker and darker.  I already think snapping the neck of the Thea's drug dealer was pretty dark (as was breaking the necks of his kidnappers in the pilot episode)  I wonder if TPTB will have the guts to really show us a flat out bad guy (aka one that has lost a belief in some kind of code)   There has to be a point were he snaps and rebels over the person Waller has turned him into and his reward is to be dumped back on the island.  

[Chaser]

Sorry, I disagree. If Felicity's "jealous" comment was in reference to something Barry said about Ray's brain or his suit, I'd be there with you. But he mentioned Ray's too tallness in context of him being Felicity's boyfriend, so the jealous remark definitely comes off as being about Ray being her boyfriend.

IMO It's not so much the wording, but the line delivery. Her tone says she isn't serious about him being jealous, she's just teasing him. 

[BkWurm1]

Sorry, I disagree. If Felicity's "jealous" comment was in reference to something Barry said about Ray's brain or his suit, I'd be there with you. But he mentioned Ray's too tallness in context of him being Felicity's boyfriend, so the jealous remark definitely comes off as being about Ray being her boyfriend.

But she doesn't come off as if she's cross or pleased, just amused that he would be jealous.  That's why it felt to me like is wasn't about romantic jealousy, I don't get any feeling from Felicity (or Barry) that there are any lingering romantic feelings between her and Barry, just that Barry is acting put out about the appearance of this guy that he thinks is too tall for her.  I think in reality Barry is uncomfortable about the timing of the visit but his discomfort does come off as a kid that sees another kid has better toys  Barry brings up him flying in and then the rest of the Flash Team (Cysco) has gone ga-ga for the tech.  

 

Ray is weirding Barry out, lol. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by BkWurm1

[AyChihuahua]

 

Remember 3.20. Remember 3x20.

I think how much 3.20, by itself, helps anything depends on how you watch the show.  Prior to this season my favorite things about the show, in order, were Oliver, Team Arrow, stunts/superheroing, fun plots, THEN Olicity.  For me, one probable "I love you" from Felicity and a love scene won't fix anything, especially if it leads into Oliver genuinely handing over his soul to the man who (probably) murdered his sister, maybe ordered Roy's murder, etc.  Even a full-porn version of an Olicity love scene wouldn't help.  I will be genuinely furious, at which point I will have to go cold turkey on everything related to this show, as I already often have rage insomnia over it.

 

Luckily Goffman got Goffman'd, so hopefully Sleepy Hollow is really good next season and that can be my new tv obsession.

 

 

They keep hinting that he used to be far worse than anything we've seen and that the flashbacks will have him getting darker and darker.  I already think snapping the neck of the Thea's drug dealer was pretty dark (as was breaking the necks of his kidnappers in the pilot episode)  I wonder if TPTB will have the guts to really show us a flat out bad guy (aka one that has lost a belief in some kind of code)

He hasn't hurt anyone innocent in either the flashbacks or real time, and he hasn't hurt any of his friends or family members.  The only way Waller could keep him in line was by threatening Maseo's family.  Even in the flashbacks he's risked his life numerous times to save innocent people.  He tortured bombers and Triad members.  The drug dealer, not innocent.  Plus, Oliver's idea of unforgivable actions is pretty unforgiving.  He judges himself more harshly than anyone.  I am not overly worried that anything in the next two seasons' of flashbacks will show him murdering little kids or raping women or anything like that.  He is fundamentally good.

Edited April 9, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[wonderwall]

Yeah I just watched that clip, I didn't see Felicity meaning the whole "jealous" thing. IMO she was just teasing him especially because she pretty much said his whole name, which indicates light teasing. I thought it was cute because they're so comfortable with each other and they're all jokey. Oh well, that's just how I interpreted it. I think deep down they both know that Barry is just sticking up for Oliver and Felicity just doesn't want to get into that. 

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I don't think she seriously thinks Barry's jealous, I just don't like her teasing him about that in particular.

[steeledwithakiss]

IMO It's not so much the wording, but the line delivery. Her tone says she isn't serious about him being jealous, she's just teasing him. 

Exactly, the line delivery is totally playful. At least EBR tries to pass it as if Felicity doesn't really think he's jealous or just probably talking about him being taller, richer and with better gadgets than him.

Oliver turning against his friends doesn't bother me. What would be the point of him becoming a member of the LOA if we don't have a few scenes of "Oliver how could you? That isn't you! Oliver is Queen is dead. I'm Al Sahim". Even if he does that he could be faking it, but I guess it's possible we won't know until the season finale.

Edited April 9, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[Chaser]

I think how much 3.20, by itself, helps anything depends on how you watch the show.  Prior to this season my favorite things about the show, in order, were Oliver, Team Arrow, stunts/superheroing, fun plots, THEN Olicity.  For me, one probable "I love you" from Felicity and a love scene won't fix anything, especially if it leads into Oliver genuinely handing over his soul to the man who (probably) murdered his sister, maybe ordered Roy's murder, etc.  Even a full-porn version of an Olicity love scene wouldn't help.  I will be genuinely furious, at which point I will have to go cold turkey on everything related to this show, as I already often have rage insomnia over it.

 

Luckily Goffman got Goffman'd, so hopefully Sleepy Hollow is really good next season and that can be my new tv obsession.

 

Remember 3x20 wasn't just in reference to sexytimes. It was in reference to No Ray, No Laurel, Diggle/Oliver/Felicity/Thea scenes, a Honest Felicity, a Honest Oliver…then sexytimes.

[kismet]

Ray is weirding Barry out, lol. 

Seriously laughing so hard at this!! Thx u. I guess Ray's "special" charm even comes off a little weird to Barry, and here I thought it was just me? Oh well, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for a little truth tea from Barry about how differently she acts when she is around Ray.

[Chaser]

Seriously laughing so hard at this!! Thx u. I guess Ray's "special" charm even comes off a little weird to Barry, and here I thought it was just me? Oh well, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for a little truth tea from Barry about how differently she acts when she is around Ray.

That! That is what I want for the obligatory Olicity reference. I don't want Barry playing Diggle and bringing up how Oliver must be feeling or how Barry knows she wants to be Oliver. I want Barry to be like 'I know you, this isn't you.'

Edited April 9, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[AyChihuahua]

 

Remember 3x20 wasn't just in reference to sexytimes. It was in reference to No Ray, No Laurel, Diggle/Oliver/Felicity/Thea scenes, a Honest Felicity, a Honest Oliver…then sexytimes.

I didn't think you meant just the sex, but no single episode can make up for all the horrible crap that's happened so far, and certainly can't make up for turning the hero of the show into a villain.  I don't think that's going to happen, but I really hope it doesn't.

 

 

Oliver turning against his friends doesn't bother me. What would be the point of him becoming a member of the LOA if we don't have a few scenes of "Oliver how could you? That isn't you! Oliver is Queen is dead. I'm Al Sahim".

Then he should really just cut off Diggle's, Felicity's, and Laurel's heads if they get in the way of him killing Nyssa.  That is what a regular LOA member would do.  I think that would probably bother some people.

Edited April 9, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[lexicon]

Also, Ray comes across as indifferent to Felicity.  If I hadn't been told otherwise, I would think that he only used her for her IT skills and connections to STAR Labs.

 

If I hadn't been told differently I swear he was a villain.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I don't have a problem with anything in The Flash producer's preview clip, except for that scene where Felicity is hanging on Ray's arm. She looks a kinda loopy there and I'm hoping there's a reason, like she got hit with a venom or something and she's about ready to pass out. Because if not, that's just a strange acting choice for EBR or direction from, well, the director.

[kismet]

That! That is what I want for the obligatory Olicity reference. I don't want Barry playing Diggle and bringing up how Oliver must be feeling or how Barry knows she wants to be Oliver. I want Barry to be like 'I know you, this isn't you.'

Yea for me it goes deeper than Olicity. It's Felicity that I don't like when she is around Ray. Like other posters have said here, she is just different (& not in a better way) around him. I can't even put my finger on how to describe it, but she is not Felicity when she is around him, she's someone else. And that is why in my head I prioritize the R/F break up over the sexy times.

[Password]

If I hadn't been told differently I swear he was a villain.

But he luuuurves her. We must be reading him wrong.

[apinknightmare]

The problem with Felicity with Ray is that she's very loopy and smitten kitten around him. And that would be cool because she has a boyfriend and she's happy, but Ray doesn't act that way around her, so she just looks like a silly chick fawning over her indifferent man and that's not the Felicity I know.

That's why the teasing Barry bothers me and her snide comment to Oliver about wanting Ray dead bothered me. It's like she's got him up on this weird pedestal when he hasn't treated her in any way to deserve it.

Edited April 9, 2015 by apinknightmare

[steeledwithakiss]

I didn't think you meant just the sex, but no single episode can make up for all the horrible crap that's happened so far, and certainly can't make up for turning the hero of the show into a villain.  I don't think that's going to happen, but I really hope it doesn't.

 

Then he should really just cut off Diggle's, Felicity's, and Laurel's heads if they get in the way of him killing Nyssa.  That is what a regular LOA member would do.  I think that would probably bother some people.

Oliver is never going to be so drastic and we know that because even when he was very dark (from what we saw) he never did anything that extreme to his friends. However it wouldn't surprise me if he were to fight with Diggle and rough him up a bit. Diggle has done it when they wanted to fool Moira in s1. Or something similar to what he did when he was trying to prove his was Bratva (fake killing that guy). Now, maybe TA is not in on his plan, and maybe the audience is not aware either, so that might be the reason Diggle would be angry with him. However I'm sure it will be revealed at the end of the episode or during the season finale (probably the same episode since he helps Barry in The Flash 1x22). MG would think it's a "got ya" moment, when a lot of people have already speculated about it.

Edited April 9, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[Guest]

I'm confused as to when this is happening. Is it right after ep 17 in Arrow or...because isn't Ray getting the suit fixed? Or upgraded? Don't you generally go for upgrades when you've tried it out (Arrow vs Atom fight) and find it needs a few things fixed?

 

I think 118 was always meant to happen after 317 and they later added the cliffhanger in 317 of the Mayor getting shot and Maseo aiming an arrow at Felicity through the window. I suspect that was always how 318 was meant to start. Felicity being all super cozy with Ray doesn't make sense the week after she runs away from his "I love you" so it was always before that.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Guest

[wonderwall]

The problem with Felicity with Ray is that she's very loopy and smitten kitten around him. And that would be cool because she has a boyfriend and she's happy, but Ray doesn't act that way around her, so she just looks like a silly chick fawning over her indifferent man and that's not the Felicity I know.

That's why the teasing Barry bothers me and her snide comment to Oliver about wanting Ray dead bothered me. It's like she's got him up on this weird pedestal when he hasn't treated her in any way to deserve it.

 

Is it bad that I take solace in the fact that this just emphasizes how Ray is NOT the one for Felicity and just how much better Felicity is when she's herself with Oliver? I feel like FElicity is trying to hard to prove to herself that things are cool with Ray when deep down she's not feelin' it.

[Guest]

 Is she faking that lovey dovey stuff with Ray until she makes it ?

 

 

It doesn't seem needy so much as it seems like she's trying too hard. So maybe not faking it until she makes it but definitely overcompensating. 

 

That's what I'm telling myself anyway.

[lexicon]

The problem with Felicity with Ray is that she's very loopy and smitten kitten around him. And that would be cool because she has a boyfriend and she's happy, but Ray doesn't act that way around her, so she just looks like a silly chick fawning over her indifferent man and that's not the Felicity I know.

 

Yup she comes across as so damn grateful to have a boyfriend which.. what? 

 

She's Felicity Megan Smoak, MIT Class of 09, Bitch with Wifi, HBIC. She's the character who parlayed what was supposed to a single appearance into being one of the most beloved characters in the show. He's a billionaire with boundary issues. He'd still be fiddling with his suit if it wasn't for her and let's face it if he hadn't been for the fact that he'd been dating Felicity when he had the ridiculous idea to try to take down the Arrow, he'd still be picking pieces of his Iron Man cosplay out of his ass...so if anybody should be grateful it should be him. The fact that the EP's don't get that infuriates me.

[steeledwithakiss]

It doesn't seem needy so much as it seems like she's trying too hard. So maybe not faking it until she makes it but definitely overcompensating. 

 

That's what I'm telling myself anyway.

The lies we tell ourselves to keep on watching that infuriating show! No but seriously, is Ray supposed to be so indifferent with her (the genius who doesn't understand simple human interactions) or does BR just doesn't know how to play a guy in love. Because he's in love right?

Edited April 9, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[apinknightmare]

It doesn't seem needy so much as it seems like she's trying too hard. So maybe not faking it until she makes it but definitely overcompensating. 

 

That's what I'm telling myself anyway.

 

Yeah, and I just don't get it. Felicity, he pursued you (in icky ways), girl. He went after you for your mind because he couldn't get things done without you, and you're fawning over him? HE SHOULD BE FAWNING OVER YOU.

Edited April 9, 2015 by apinknightmare

[jay741982]

Ill console my anger with her kissing that Jerks ass with the fact that 320 of arrow is coming and HOT OLICITY SEX!! Now that's a man who looks at Felicity like she's the awesome Goddess The HBIC that she truly is

Yeah, and I just don't get it. Felicity, he pursued you (in icky ways), girl. He went after you for your mind because he couldn't get things done without you, and you're fawning over him? HE SHOULD BE FAWNING OVER YOU.

Well she will be Fawned over in 320 by the man who sees how awesome she really is

[Guest]

The lies we tell ourselves to keep on watching that infuriating show! No but seriously, is Ray supposed to be so indifferent with her (the genius who doesn't understand simple human interactions) or does BR just doesn't know how to play a guy in love. Because he's in love right?

 

Well, I can take or leave The Flash tbh but I just don't like it when any of them mess with Felicity. She seems like a completely different person. I can't ever picture her acting like that with Oliver. And I do really think she's overcompensating with Ray. It makes sense when things get real and she runs away from his "I love you." Deep down she knows it's not right with him but she's got to play a part, right?

 

LOL, I'm the wrong person to be asking about Ray because I can't stand him. He doesn't look interested though. He didn't look interested in 316 either, when she was hanging all over him just before Oliver walked into the office. If I didn't know any better I'd say he was totally using her. None of his actions make much sense to me but it's Ray so I don't care. Ha! 

 

 

Yeah, and I just don't get it. Felicity, he pursued you (in icky ways), girl. He went after you for your mind because he couldn't get things done without you, and you're fawning over him? HE SHOULD BE FAWNING OVER YOU.

 

Exactly. I think she's neck deep in kidding herself. That's the only explanation.

[AyChihuahua]

 

Oliver is never going to be so drastic and we know that because even when he was very dark (from what we saw) he never did anything that extreme to his friends. However it wouldn't surprise me if he were to fight with Diggle and rough him up a bit. Diggle has done it when they wanted to fool Moira in s1. Or something similar to what he did when he was trying to prove his was Bratva (fake killing that guy). Now, maybe TA is not in on his plan, and maybe the audience is not aware either, so that might be the reason Diggle would be angry with him. However I'm sure it will be revealed at the end of the episode or during the season finale (probably the same episode since he helps Barry in The Flash 1x22). MG would think it's a "got ya" moment, when a lot of people have already speculated about it.

I would be fine with all that, because it would be a ploy.  What I would not understand, at all, and would utterly hate, would be if he actually felt some reason genuinely to join up with the League of Assassins, who ruined his life, nearly killed Felicity, are the reason Roy is in prison and/or dead, and killed Thea.  He should feel nothing for them other than hatred and the desire to destroy them.

[chaos is welcome]

They keep hinting that he used to be far worse than anything we've seen and that the flashbacks will have him getting darker and darker.  I already think snapping the neck of the Thea's drug dealer was pretty dark (as was breaking the necks of his kidnappers in the pilot episode)  I wonder if TPTB will have the guts to really show us a flat out bad guy (aka one that has lost a belief in some kind of code)   There has to be a point were he snaps and rebels over the person Waller has turned him into and his reward is to be dumped back on the island.  

He had a line "I've been an assassin."  I think when we get to Bratva!Oliver, he'll be killing people right and left, no remorse.  Something happens though, to make him feel he needs to go home. 

[AyChihuahua]

He was an assassin in Hong Kong.  He killed that old guy, among others.  But that old guy was Fyers' handler, not an actual good guy.    

 

Really, though, both Nikita, who I liked, and the Black Widow probably killed good people before the show started, so maybe I could get over it in his past.  I think the difference would be that that phase of their lives was just mentioned, mostly not shown (Nikita might have had a flashback or two).  However, I don't see how it would be acceptable at this stage of his hero journey happily to join an evil organization and start killing innocent people, and I don't think it will happen.

Edited April 10, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

Oh I think the flashbacks next season are going darker than dark, which is why we need something more positive in the present to balance that out. Which gotta say Im sorta looking fwd to after this meh season.That's why I think we will see a return to the lighter side of OQ. I think he will be in a relationship with FS. And I have a feeling he will be doing something positive in the city on a professional level as OQ.

[steeledwithakiss]

Well, I can take or leave The Flash tbh but I just don't like it when any of them mess with Felicity. She seems like a completely different person. I can't ever picture her acting like that with Oliver. And I do really think she's overcompensating with Ray. It makes sense when things get real and she runs away from his "I love you." Deep down she knows it's not right with him but she's got to play a part, right?

 

LOL, I'm the wrong person to be asking about Ray because I can't stand him. He doesn't look interested though. He didn't look interested in 316 either, when she was hanging all over him just before Oliver walked into the office. If I didn't know any better I'd say he was totally using her. None of his actions make much sense to me but it's Ray so I don't care. Ha! 

 

 

 

Exactly. I think she's neck deep in kidding herself. That's the only explanation.

Ray is a mistery, or a really badly written character. People are always talking about chemistry as being subjective but then there are a few things like trying to look at your scene partner and look vaguely interested when she's flirting with you that help the viewers connect with the couple.

Anyways, all that talk about Assassin!Oliver got me excited about s4 flashbacks. Are they going to really got there with him in s4? Is Akio's death (if he's the one dying) going to be the reason for him losing his humanity? It reminds me of the O/F date in 3x01 and he was saying that he was thinking a lot about his time in HK lately and then him flashing back to meeting Maseo's family after little Sara's birth. If Akio dies it would explain why he associates what was living Diggle at that time (trying to having a family and living a very dangerous life) and why he was so sure it was doomed to fail. I'm also not sure the show/writers would know how to handle a child's death. That's pretty dark stuff.

Edited April 10, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[AyChihuahua]

 

I think the flashbacks next season are going darker than dark,

Well, this is the CW, so they're not going to show him eviscerating little girls or strangling babies.  Even The Walking Dead hasn't killed the baby yet.  Bratva, which means a lot of roughing people up and quite a bit of killing other mob people.  

[kismet]

I don't know it does seem that family members & friends do get used frequently as leverage in mob deaths. I don't think they are gonna start eviscerating little children. I think they will stick to primarily adults. But I do see OQ killing & torturing more people in flashbacks next season. 

 

I still think Akio will die this season and that will be OQ breaking point. It just makes sense in the role that Akio has played for him. Reminding him of Thea, of being part of a family unit. It also makes sense like Steeledwithakiss alluded to that the birth of little Sara & Diggle would trigger his memories of Akio & the unforeseen consequences of the life his parents had chosen. Which would then help fuel his fear of being able to do his job as protector or the city and be with FS. Maseo & Tatsu were both accomplished fighters, so if they were unable to do both or find a balance that would still be influencing him. Also, if OQ had any part in Akio's death or being unable to prevent Akio's death. I can see how it triggers his need to be laser focused, because he it proves that when he is distracted by emotions, people he cares about get hurt.

 

It would also connect the flashbacks to the main plot, because right now I don't really see a connection between the stories. It introduces characters but other than that there has been little overlap and I can't imagine its all about the alpha/omega virus.