S08.E05: The Nose

[roamyn]

That's kind of tough having to be split up like that when after so long together when you must know each other so well and make a good solid team. What do they mean by safety reasons exactly? Lee Lofland who reviews the show and is a police officer said much the same thing, that a lot of officers don't want promotion because it takes them away from the job they love doing and their team.

I believe he said it had to do with issues of procedure. If your partner does something the opposite way of SOP (ala Starsky & Hutch), or if they "handle" a suspect too much, or if they're drinking yoo much off the job, you're much more likely to cover for him/her.

We saw what happens when one friend becomes the superior to another: Beckett not writing a report, or writing up, Ryan for shooting his partner.

[jhlipton]

So now Castle gets to decide who deserves to live their life the way they want (or need) and who doesn't.  Hey, let's take the autistic guy to the video game arcade or the agoraphobic to a large convention, because otherwise they're not really living (ever hear of the internet, Rick).  N ope, Mia has to be forced into an extremely unpleasant world just because it's what Rick wants.

 

If I was Mia and people were constantly shoving me into this nasty experience, I'd have a bad attitude, too.  

 

It was an OK (if illogical) mystery but otherwise meh.

[verdana]

I love this set of gifs that's been going around on tumblr taken from the scene where the guy is pointing is gun saying he knows that his wife is Captain of the 12th.

Edited October 22, 2015 by verdana

[Julie23]

I thought the nose and Castle crime-fighting was good. Everything else pretty much sucked.

Character assassination  (no pun intended) aside, the whole Ryan/Espo sub-plot was horrible

I just can't with the "she loves me!" crap anymore. Castle, she left you with no explanation. She is not acting the least bit sorry for it (other than smelling your shirt, which was not endearing to me AT ALL) WTF are you still hung up on? Do not go to the precinct, do not run into her on the same cases. Go on your merry way and find someone who does not lie to you at every opportunity. This show is called Castle after all, not Beckett.  

[TWP]

Purpose of this season: rehabilitate Marlowe's reputation with alienated fans.

[Thak]

 

Since Beckett never stated her reasons for leaving, what if it was because Castle was too involved in her life? Everywhere she looked, there he was. At home, at work. Even when he's a P.I., he's still working her cases.

 

I think so, because the boxing scene with Vikram had her saying something about hurrying up the investigation before Castle got wind and stepped in, thus putting himself in danger. 

[WendyCR72]

Since Beckett never stated her reasons for leaving, what if it was because Castle was too involved in her life? Everywhere she looked, there he was. At home, at work. Even when he's a P.I., he's still working her cases.

 

That makes things even more indefensible because, rather than say that and try to establish new WORK boundaries, WORK prevails and she chucks the marriage instead?

 

I know I wouldn't want to stay married if work trumps a spouse.

[pennben]

Can we not convict Beckett of crimes against Castle that she didn't commit?  Even the original poster of the (she doesn't want Castle around all the time anymore) theory stated:

 

 

I'm not saying that's what happened, because obviously it's not the reason,

Edited October 22, 2015 by pennben

[pennben]

I get that, which is why I quoted you as saying that you knew your hypothesis to not be true.  Even as I'm typing, I'm sure I sound angry, but I'm not, I'm just really curious.  Folks generally hate Beckett now, why throw out a notion that would make folks hate her more...then say "I know it's not really what happened" but man, if it did, she sucks worse that we thought?

[TWP]

I actually think that the breakup really is about Beckett's hidden insecurities about the relationship.

If you look back, her insecurities were everywhere, addressed in several episodes. Why did Castle's other wives leave him? what if we become boring? being tempted by other men etc. Maybe Beckett doesn't even realize she's employing convenient excuses for the breakup. And that's not convicting her of a crime she didn't commit. More, that's trying to make sense of her nonsensical rationale for the breakup.

Commitment - phobia is a thing.

Edited October 22, 2015 by TVWithPity

[WendyCR72]

I think what Wendy was saying is that IF that were the case, and Castle came to that conclusion, he would be even more incensed.

 

It's further hypothesis based on mine.

 

That's exactly what I meant, SweetTooth. I know this isn't what happens (so far). But if it were? It's just as horrible as everything else.

[GoGiants]

Folks generally hate Beckett now, why throw out a notion that would make folks hate her more...then say "I know it's not really what happened" but man, if it did, she sucks worse that we thought?

I don't hate Beckett, I hate what has been done to the charcter. I think the speculation above isn't about piling on Beckett. I think it does show how ill conceived the break up plot line is. When a character becomes a plot line tool like Beckett has, the door is left wide open for speculation of all sorts.

[pennben]

I've always thought her motives in the breakup were clearly written, I think her way of implementing the breakup (or, perhaps more accurate, how it has been written) have been wackadoo, to say the least!:)

[GoGiants]

 

If upon even a second inspection, a plot line cannot hold up to even a little scrutiny, how can you not only go ahead and use this for an episode, but make it a multi-episode arc?

Yes. A thousand times yes to this. How many times can I like this? :)

The show has been guilty of this before, FBOW & the disappearance immediately spring to mind. It was stupid and the ultimate explanation was cringe worthy. I disliked it but they kept it out of the bulk of the episodes and let the show do its thing, independent of that plot line, for most of the season.

S7 is not a favorite for many, I gather, and certainly not mine. But I found it enjoyable enough because I wasn't being beaten over the head with the silly mythology (don't get me started on the ruined wedding/rogan). I compartmentalized and moved on. My patience for utter nonsense on tv shows goes up exponentially when I'm not being hit with it week after week.

S8 has been built on a ill conceived and ridiculous storyline. Each week is a glaring reminder of how poorly plotted and planned this season has been. Drop it and get back to what they were once good at, maybe there's a chance for S8. Five episodes in, that's starting to seem less likely.

[roamyn]

S8 is almost enough to make fans want Marlowe back.

[roamyn]

The devil you know...

Exactly.

[pepper]

I have no idea who the writers are, but I think they suck. All the moaning about what Marlowe had to say in interviews never equated to a clusterf*ck on the level of what this season is. Seriously.

1. Beckett's reason for the separation is beyond weak. She should never have been given a choice. The plot should have been: "leave or he will be killed". Not "stop investigating OR leave Or he will be killed" in which she chose to leave. Not the actions of a woman at that stage of the Castle/Beckett relationship. They've been through too much.

2. If she had to leave because the New Big Bad could not punish Castle for her investigation, then working together would defeat the purpose. This is not debatable, So the minute he started horning in on her cases, she would have been forced to confess her motive. Keeping the separation storyline going after his first appearance at the precinct makes zero sense

3. Castle wants her back because they love each other and he is convinced that her reasons make no sense. Got that. Even like that. BUT the established character of Castle has NEVER been able to let something go until he fully understands it. We want him to actively want her back and work to do it by getting to her reason and showing her she's wrong, not by literally farting his way into the precinct. She comes off as misguided and unintelligent and he comes off as weak and shallow. Our heroes!

4 An established strength of the show is these two seemingly opposite characters actually having core similarities that complement one another when they work to find justice for others. I understand the desire to reboot the UST which, IMO they did for about 2 episodes. But if you're going to ELIMINATE that core strength by breaking up the characters, there has to be some other element of cohesion that uses their chemistry (IMO). I really thought they were going to have Castle and Beckett having guilty sex throughout the breakup - but there isn't nor is there anything else beyond shirt-smelling to physically connect them. So they are forced to have them work together, even when it makes no sense that they do!

 

All in all, an 11th grade writing class could do better than what is showing up on my screen. And they have even screwed up Ryan! Having him taking bribes, lying to his friend about the exam instead of explaining why he needed the slot and then shooting unidentifiable silhouettes and generally being a lousy cop. All for the slapstick fun and Assposito joke, professional writers? Seriously?

 

I only finished watching the last two episodes yesterday and I'm having an internal debate about ignoring the show until its inevitable cancellation at the end of the season and then having a marathon with a thumb firmly on the fast-forward button. I may continue to watch if only so I can appreciate the venom on this board, but while that venom is being directed almost exclusively at Beckett, I have trouble relating. Castle is devolving into a terrible hour of television and it can't just be chalked up to "Beckett is a bitch". Sorry.

[oberon55]

I have no idea who the writers are, but I think they suck. All the moaning about what Marlowe had to say in interviews never equated to a clusterf*ck on the level of what this season is. Seriously.

1. Beckett's reason for the separation is beyond weak. She should never have been given a choice. The plot should have been: "leave or he will be killed". Not "stop investigating OR leave Or he will be killed" in which she chose to leave. Not the actions of a woman at that stage of the Castle/Beckett relationship. They've been through too much.

 

They even took it one step further. There is someone else working to solve the case. So she can't even use the excuse of "if not me who?". The story is so far fetched & the casts behavior so bizarre that I can't work up any emotion for any of them. I have never felt so disconnected from the story & characters as I have this season.

[pepper]

I never said "everyone". Perhaps you should have quoted a few more lines... Unfair may just be as unfair does.

[TWP]

Not getting into the argument, but just making a side point. I definitely don't think Beckett is a bitch, never have.  I definitely think Beckett has some issues that are manifest as taking some really silly ideas and using them to formulate some really dumb decisions. And I don't think she thinks rationally. Are we on our way to a catastrophic mental breakdown arc, PTSD 2.0?

 

If Castle was my friend, though, I'd tell him that he's stuck around her for 8 years and she hasn't really changed, even with therapy.  He needs to find a more stable relationship if he ever wants to be happy.

 

And I also agree with all the other points mentioned about the show, so I'm not singling out the Beckett character to trash. I'm just not rehashing all the points here.

Edited October 23, 2015 by TVWithPity

[TWP]

An interesting twitter rant from a gentleman named Eric Heisserer @HIGHzurrer.  He talks about what BTS issues do to showrunners and how actor problems split plots, the fans don't like it, and then the show runner is the scapegoat, or worse.  He says several shows are affected right now.  I've pretty much summarized everything he's said, but  go to his twitter to see his version of it.

 

My heart goes out.  I only wish the showrunners weren't so flippant with the fans about their plot lines.... I could forgive them more.

Edited October 23, 2015 by TVWithPity

[WendyCR72]

Well, if actor issues are the case? Stop pandering. And I don't just mean Castle, but all shows with such issues. Don't like your co-star? Too fucking bad. You're paid a mint that the Average Joe or Jane would kill for. It's why you're an ACTOR. Act and STFU.

 

Then, when contracts are up, walk the hell away.

 

I bet less shows would go to hell if these pampered babies stopped getting spoiled. The peons have to be professional with coworkers they may hate, but it is called being a professional.

 

Maybe these actors should try it sometime!

[TWP]

Well, if actor issues are the case? Stop pandering. And I don't just mean Castle, but all shows with such issues. Don't like your co-star? Too fucking bad. You're paid a mint that the Average Joe or Jane would kill for. It's why you're an ACTOR. Act and STFU.

 

Then, when contracts are up, walk the hell away.

 

I bet less shows would go to hell if these pampered babies stopped getting spoiled. The peons have to be professional with coworkers they may hate, but it is called being a professional.

 

Maybe these actors should try it sometime!

 

I know  I think sometimes they sign because the other person signed and they'll be damned if they'll walk away from all that money and let the costar continue with it.  And it helps that most actors only get one big show.  Some go on to do more, but it's reasonably rare so they hang on.

 

Of course, another angle would be to publicize the difficulties so that fans maybe would come to understand that if they want any semblance of their show they have to put up with separate story lines. 

 

Yes, it's called being a professional.  I will cut them a pass a little, since a lousy co-worker relationship for us is different than for them.  As I saw someone on another board say, in our world, you don't have to hug and kiss the co-workers you hate.

[WendyCR72]

Yes, it's called being a professional.  I will cut them a pass a little, since a lousy co-worker relationship for us is different than for them.  As I saw someone on another board say, in our world, you don't have to hug and kiss the co-workers you hate.

 

Okay, I get that. In theory. But isn't that the point of being an actor? If one can't hack kissing someone they hate, get out of acting and do something else.

[TWP]

Okay, I get that. In theory. But isn't that the point of being an actor? If one can't hack kissing someone they hate, get out of acting and do something else.

 

Hard to walk away from $100,000/episode or whatever.  Money over principles. 

 

I think the biggest mistake made in these scenarios is to not in some way let the fans into what's going on.  I'm not saying we should know about day to day, but we should know that greater issues exist and if we want the show, we have to deal with them. It should be okay to say (using our example, even if it's untrue) that Nathan and Stana don't get along, so we're going to write them out of a relationship, but know that we're casting other actors who might form excellent, even romantic relationships with our current cast. But the network won't allow that...why? money, fear of loss of ratings. 

 

Leaving us constantly wondering is easily as bad though.

[TWP]

Of course, on shows with only a few characters, they write themselves into a corner.  On a show like Grey's, they can just shuffle the romances around.

[CastleSeason8]

No one associated with the show will ever admit to anything. There are way too many fans who merrily watch the show with no knowledge of anything bts or spoilers, etc.

I have to say it does sadden me. I always figured they werent great friends, but didnt think they hated eachother. It does kind of take something away from the show (for me - silly as that is).

[TWP]

No one associated with the show will ever admit to anything. There are way too many fans who merrily watch the show with no knowledge of anything bts or spoilers, etc.

I have to say it does sadden me. I always figured they werent great friends, but didn't think they hated each other. It does kind of take something away from the show (for me - silly as that is).

 

We don't know what show(s) the Twitter guy was talking about....however, some tweets align with other rumors we've heard about Castle. 

 

Not silly.  When the actors dislike each other, the interactions are awkward.  It's hard to get into the story.

 

Wendy, I wonder if we could have a "rumors" thread with these posts copied there..

[GoGiants]

I know that Twitter conversation was not about Castle per se and that the BTS rumors about Castle leads have always been vague and unsubstantiated. I've only read comments on boards that seemed to be opinion based and I've never seen anything that says there's trouble(I will grant that I'm new to castle). If it is a real thing, it seems to be well concealed.

I've never given much thought to it but the direction S8 has taken makes me wonder. I'm sure far more goes on BTS than tv viewers will ever be privy to. It would be a shame if BTS trouble was the true impetus behind the S8 mess( I know none of the answers are great, if not bts, then bad writing, pride or who knows?)

Actors, writers etc lining their pockets while tearing something down that's been enjoyable enough for 7 years is kind of a bummer thought. Certainly not unheard of or shocking but still disappointing. But I almost(keyword is almost) can't blame them, the entertainment industry is fickle. You have to take advantage when the opportunity presents itself. Just wish it could work out for both sides, those making the show and those who watch.

Ultimately, I'm with Wendy and others, actors, writers etc are making a fortune compared to the average person. Suck it up and do your job. That's what most of us do everyday, for far less perks and pay! Lol

Oh, and I know using the "B" word (bones...shhhh) around here is an ugly thing to do, but there was an episode last night that ended with Booth spraying Brennan with the sink hose, and the laughter was so genuine, I wasn't even sure it was scripted. I wish I still felt that from Beckett/Castle.

Would love to see joy and fun between Castle and Beckett again. Haven't watched Bones since the 2nd or 3rd season. Maybe it's time for another look. Edited October 24, 2015 by GoGiants

[WendyCR72]

Wendy, I wonder if we could have a "rumors" thread with these posts copied there..

 

I'm rather leery about doing that as it would likely disintegrate into meltdowns and fanbase wars with every drop. I'd just as soon avoid the headaches there.

[TWP]

I'm rather leery about doing that as it would likely disintegrate into meltdowns and fanbase wars with every drop. I'd just as soon avoid the headaches there.

Just trying to declutter this thread, but you're probably right.

[KaveDweller]

That guy may or may not be referring to Castle, but if so I still blame the producers/writers for the state of season 8. They could have Stana and Nathan work together a lot less and not split them up in such a ridiculous way.  Take this last episode, if it weren't for the scenes with Beckett asking to come pick up her stuff and packing up, they could have had the interaction they had with us thinking they were happily married. You'd just have to change the dialogue in that scene and maybe change the ending to make shirt smelling romantic instead of angsty.  But I bet it could be done without making them spend more time together than they did.

 

Also, I work with people I don't like.  And while I don't have to hug or kiss them, but I could probably be persuaded to if I got paid $100,000 a week or whatever these actors make.

 

Fans sending death threats should be unacceptable regardless though.

Edited October 24, 2015 by KaveDweller

[S55]

While I agree that actors make a choice when they stay with or leave a project, so once they choose to stay, certain professionalism is expected. 

 

However, the studio that produces the TV show and network that airs it aren't blameless. From my observations over the years, they are often desperate to keep talent (especially for long-running shows) and product to the point where they give in to demands which end up causing the situation some TV shows are currently in. It reminds me of something Hart Hanson said in the "Showrunners" documentary about how in season 1, the actors work for the showrunner, in season 2, you work for each other and by season 3, the showrunner works for the actor. If it comes down to keeping an actor happy versus a showrunner, 9 times out of 10, the actor wins that fight. 

 

There is a lot of fault to go around in my opinion. 

[Chado]

Castle in my mind, definitely has BTS issues. Just look at the difference between how NF/SK acted around each other in the first few years of the show compared to now. It's such a startling change that something has had to occur in my opinion.

 

My uninformed opinion, if Penny and Leonard from TBBT can date in real life for 2 years and then break up and still do the show together without issues, I think the rest of the shows/leads with BTS "issues" can just suck it up and get on with it.

 

As Wendy said, it requires showrunners and networks who don't give in to each and every demand.

[TWP]

I guess I'm alone in having (likely misguided ;-)) sympathy for the actors. However, one other point. I wonder how much pressure the network puts on actors to renew. Would they be black-balled if they said no? Maybe this is why some actors quit acting and produce or direct instead. Actors are temperamental and they don't want to have to do close scenes with their arch enemies.

Honestly, the way things are going, I'm not sure why they brought Castle back after really wrapping it up last season. Maybe they didn't have anything better in the queue? Or they figured a long-running series while making accommodation for the actors was a better bet than trying something new? I know some people love it still. Bully for them for having a show they still enjoy.

Kaley and Johnny dated for 2 years. Maybe they have more in common in general and thus have reason to be friends. Stana and Nathan don't seem to have much common ground.

Well the bottom line is it appears Castle actors carved out niches that makes the show tolerable for them. Maybe over time they'll find a greater audience for it. I wish them the best in doing that. I'm probably not interested, if it truly means bifurcating the storylines, while having weekly miserable interactions between the characters. New Castle term: MOTW, misery of the week. I'd rather they just break them up and manipulate us into thinking it was a good idea.

And I hope nobody's threatening anybody and if they are, they're found and prosecuted. That's out of hand. Hawley has hinted at it, with a seemingly random post about an athlete who was threatened. Sigh.

Edited October 24, 2015 by TVWithPity

[verdana]

I know that Twitter conversation was not about Castle per se and that the BTS rumors about Castle leads have always been vague and unsubstantiated. I've only read comments on boards that seemed to be opinion based and I've never seen anything that says there's trouble(I will grant that I'm new to castle). If it is a real thing, it seems to be well concealed.#

The rumors have been bubbling around for years now. I can't blame people for speculating, their relationship these days is a world away from what it was back in the first few seasons and once I accepted the idea they don't get on the sheer weirdness of their non relationship over the last two or three years made perfect sense. I don't see it as hate, the change in their behaviour patterns are probably down to a failed romantic liaison early on and/or a personality/working clash that has been exacerbated over time due to the long hours working together over the last 7 years.

 

It hasn't been well concealed TBH at least not for me and has seeped through on to the screen, most notably in S6 when Fillion especially looked liked he would rather be getting a boil lanced on his backside than cosying up to Katic. However, things have improved thankfully but I still get that awkward vibe between them sometimes when they're trying to be passionate and it takes me out the scene so I'd rather they avoided them. 

 

I've never given much thought to it but the direction S8 has taken makes me wonder. I'm sure far more goes on BTS than tv viewers will ever be privy to. It would be a shame if BTS trouble was the true impetus behind the S8 mess( I know none of the answers are great, if not bts, then bad writing, pride or who knows?)

 

If the two leads don't get on and you're not prepared to put your foot down (because of reasons already mentioned) then the writers need to find a story that keeps them separated whilst pretending the show is still about Castle and Beckett and their romance because they know that's what sells. This is the story they've chosen - going back to the WTWT routine - and if ratings hold steady they'll drag it out all season long if they can. I agree with KaveDweller they could have achieved exactly the same thing but in a different way - but may be that's ego coming into play - and the new showrunners desire to prove they can place their own stamp on things and be successful where Marlowe failed. 

 

Creating two shows in one with the Castle PI/Captain Beckett seems to be an obvious result of trying to accommodate both leads, keep them happy and on board because it seems they both want different things out the show and that's been the case for a while, they're not writing for the old audience because due to various reasons (some out of their control) they can't any more. 

Edited October 24, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

Would love to see joy and fun between Castle and Beckett again. Haven't watched Bones since the 2nd or 3rd season. Maybe it's time for another look.

Haven't watched for years but I'm tempted because the writers that have taken over seem to have the exact opposite approach to Hawley and Winter and I retain affection for the show, I shipped B&B before Castle and Beckett. I only have to look at how Emily and David interact after eleven years together to show me what a genuine, easy going, long standing friendship between co-stars should look like and wish that Katic and Fillion could be the same way....sigh but that's life. 

 

Wendy is right, a separate gossip/rumor thread can be asking for trouble, I lurked on one site and their Stanathan gossip thread is 674 pages long (which is funny as they're discussing a relationship that basically doesn't exist lol) discussions tend to get out of hand and need constant monitoring and it can infect other threads too and what a nightmare for a mod. 

[TWP]

I was only suggesting moving this subject matter to a different thread to keep this thread clean....and maybe it could be locked once people were finished venting. I wasn't suggesting a long term gossip thread. Plenty of places have those.

[GoGiants]

The rumors have been bubbling around for years now. I can't blame people for speculating, their relationship these days is a world away from what it was back in the first few seasons and once I accepted the idea they don't get on the sheer weirdness of their non relationship over the last two or three years made perfect sense. I don't see it as hate, the change in their behaviour patterns are probably down to a failed romantic liaison early on and/or a personality/working clash that has been exacerbated over time due to the long hours working together over the last 7 years.

I've assumed that it was personality difference, but what do I know. I don't blame people for the speculation either. Maybe where there is smoke, there is fire?

 

It hasn't been well concealed TBH at least not for me and has seeped through on to the screen, most notably in S6 when Fillion especially looked liked he would rather be getting a boil lanced on his backside than cosying up to Katic.

Nice image, lol!

I'm probably not the best gauge of these things. I binge watched the show over the last 8-9 months. I hadn't heard of Castle or the lead actors until a friend suggested I watch.

 

S8 is the first season that I've watched in real time. I am far more irritated with it than I was with any other season. Again, I blame my binge watching for that. In fact, I am considering waiting for S8 to end and going back to my binge watching ways.

I have most of the same frustrations with story direction and character development that people here who watched over the 7 seasons do. I think because of how I watched I missed a lot of the BTS stuff and other annoyances that come from long term viewing of a show. I can imagine how I would have felt after the S5 or S6 finales or after one of Marlowe's interviews during real time viewing. Binge watching made it easy enough to watch the next episode and move on.

 

I agree with KaveDweller they could have achieved exactly the same thing but in a different way - but may be that's ego coming into play - and the new showrunners desire to prove they can place their own stamp on things and be successful where Marlowe failed.

I agree as well. Regardless of the motivations behind the storyline, there were ways to do this without a break up. The same stories could have been told over the last five episodes without a break up. And that is exasperating to me.

 

Thanks, Verdana, for sharing your perspective.

Edited October 24, 2015 by GoGiants

[verdana]

I guess I'm alone in having (likely misguided ;-)) sympathy for the actors. However, one other point. I wonder how much pressure the network puts on actors to renew. Would they be black-balled if they said no? Maybe this is why some actors quit acting and produce or direct instead. Actors are temperamental and they don't want to have to do close scenes with their arch enemies.

My sympathy is limited because they're being paid big bucks and it's not as if Katic and Fillion didn't realise what their roles involved - playing eventual love interests - so many actors in the past have had rocky relationships with their co-stars for various reasons but I only found out about it much later on because they did their job at the time and acted.  Unless their co-star is being completely obnoxious and rude which would give them cause to have an issue otherwise there's no excuse. As for being black balled in Hollywood it seems to be a case of it's not what you know it's who you know. Fillion seems to be hooked into ABC so I presume he'll want to stick with them after Castle is done and won't want to rock the boat. Katic she seems more difficult to pin down. 

 

Honestly, the way things are going, I'm not sure why they brought Castle back after really wrapping it up last season. Maybe they didn't have anything better in the queue? Or they figured a long-running series while making accommodation for the actors was a better bet than trying something new? I know some people love it still. Bully for them for having a show they still enjoy.

Greed. The bean counters must have reviewed the situation and taken the decision to keep it going rather than pumping the money they saved on Castle into something else. Whilst their new shows keep under performing Castle is safe, although I'm not sure how much longer that can go on as Castle's revenue stream must be dropping steadily along with the ratings.  Also, Fillion and Katic don't appear to have anything major in the pipeline to replace that regular money stream so it made perfect sense for everyone from the network down to continue squeezing the last drop of juice out of it. Honestly at this point everyone seems in it for the money nothing more. 

 

Well the bottom line is it appears Castle actors carved out niches that makes the show tolerable for them. Maybe over time they'll find a greater audience for it. I wish them the best in doing that. I'm probably not interested, if it truly means bifurcating the storylines, while having weekly miserable interactions between the characters. New Castle term: MOTW, misery of the week. I'd rather they just break them up and manipulate us into thinking it was a good idea.

Once you've upset your existing audience you need to go and find a new one and hope your product will draw fans in - time will tell, it might work. Ratings are low but they've been low since 8.01 and haven't tumbled sharply as some predicted when the separation arc kicked in. Like you I'm not interested in the direction they're going in by "bifurcating" the stories but I doubt they'll backtrack this is Castle 2.0. May be writing Castle and Beckett as this dysfunctional couple is all part of their cunning plan lol to ease fans into this idea that a permanent separation is a good thing. 

 

And I hope nobody's threatening anybody and if they are, they're found and prosecuted. That's out of hand. Hawley has hinted at it, with a seemingly random post about an athlete who was threatened. Sigh.

A fan said that he's always tweeting about sport (was it a baseball player or something?) and they doubted it was anything Castle related but either way I agree with you.

[verdana]

I've assumed that it was personality difference, but what do I know. I don't blame people for the speculation either. Maybe where there is smoke, there is fire?

I imagine long after the show is done people will start talking which is what usually happens if there's anything juicy to tell. I've been watching the show from the pilot and seeing the sudden abrupt change in their behaviour had my radar pinging that something was wrong it's either sex or personality clash or both what else can it be in this business?  Not that any one is going to be issuing a public statement to the fans. If I'm wrong and it's my over active imagination running wild and all is hunky dory between them then okay....but I still say they have the strangest "friendly" working relationship between TV co-stars I've ever seen. 

 

S8 is the first season that I've watched in real time. I am far more irritated with it than I was with any other season. Again, I blame my binge watching for that. In fact, I am considering waiting for S8 to end and going back to my binge watching ways.

It's completely different binge watching a show than watching week in week out, I've come to the conclusion it's much better to do the former if you can manage it. I find your perspective can be very different (and often more positive) from those fans that had to suffer through certain things for long periods. I'm binge watching Lost at the moment and I'm talking to someone who is a big fan and watched regularly from the pilot who persuaded me to give it a go, it's been about three weeks or so and I'm up to S5. When we're talking about various episodes or story arcs she's has to keep reminding me I'm watching them one after the other, she didn't have that luxury and had to wait weeks even months for things to happen. 

 

You also make a good point on missing out on all the bullshit in terms of showrunner interviews, reactions, gossip etc. Going back to Lost again after I've finished a particular season my friend has told me about certain things that purportedly happened on the show with some members of the cast or a fuss that occurred over a particular story and I'm glad I remained clueless and watched it without any of that baggage cluttering up my brain, makes it so much easier. 

Edited October 24, 2015 by verdana

[TWP]

My guilty pleasure last night was to Google couples who didn't get along on movie and TV sets.  The saddest one was R2D2 and C3PO (or the actors who played them  ).  If robots can't even get along on a set, where's the hope for humans doing so ;-).

Edited October 24, 2015 by TVWithPity

[verdana]

We don't know what show(s) the Twitter guy was talking about....however, some tweets align with other rumors we've heard about Castle.

No true we don't and I'm sure he won't divulge any names quite rightly given he's a writer working in the business but I thought it was interesting that after doing a quick search Eric Heisserer is apparently married to Christine Boylan who used to write and co-produce on Castle she left after season four.

 

My guilty pleasure last night was to Google couples who didn't get along on movie and TV sets. The saddest one was R2D2 and C3PO (or the actors who played them  ).

 

What? That can't be true! IT CANNOT.  Argh the pain. More illusions shattered. Sigh

[TWP]

As long as you can make money, you're not blackballed.

 

Look at Charlie Sheen. 

Probably won't be doing anything at CBS for awhile though. 

[verdana]

Look at Charlie Sheen. 

I'd rather not. Yuck. 

[GoGiants]

I've been watching the show from the pilot and seeing the sudden abrupt change in their behaviour had my radar pinging that something was wrong it's either sex or personality clash or both what else can it be in this business?  Not that any one is going to be issuing a public statement to the fans. If I'm wrong and it's my over active imagination running wild and all is hunky dory between them then okay....but I still say they have the strangest "friendly" working relationship between TV co-stars I've ever seen. 

 

Blame my binge watching again for not noticing things. I'm sure if I had 7 years of viewing history with Castle I would have some different ideas about the show. There was always another episode to watch, so even the things I disliked didn't bug me too much. Plus I usually don't follow the actors much outside of a show that I enjoy, so I definitely miss stuff.

 

The S6 finale is probably where I would have lost it if I had been watching in real time. I may not have even watched S7 after that train wreck of a story line. S8 is what brought me to this board. My friend, who watches with me, was sick of hearing my frustrations with the show's direction!

 

Going back to Lost again after I've finished a particular season my friend has told me about certain things that purportedly happened on the show with some members of the cast or a fuss that occurred over a particular story and I'm glad I remained clueless and watched it without any of that baggage cluttering up my brain, makes it so much easier.

 

Wish I could be clueless about Castle again! If only I waited one more year, I could have gone through it all in one giant marathon (assuming S8 is the end, that is).

 

I'd still be ticked about all the usual things that happened over the run of the show. I would detest the break up, but I could fly through it quickly without investing that much in it. Going from binge watching to one a week has been a bummer. :)

Edited October 24, 2015 by GoGiants

[TWP]

Nathan, especially, is well-liked, is not afraid of social media, and has had a long-running successful show. That man will have no trouble finding work anywhere.

 

I was actually more worried about Stana if I'm being honest.  If she leaves before they want her to, who knows.

[femmefan1946]

Just look at the difference between how NF/SK acted around each other in the first few years of the show compared to now. It's such a startling change that something has had to occur in my opinion.

 

Well, when the show started, both were single and even went on a few dates (and I mean that in the old-fashioned, dinner and a movie way) .

Then Stana entered a steady relationship with Kris B. and recently married him.

That's one change.

[WendyCR72]

Okay, gang. I don't want to be a hard ass, hence no yellow, but this topic has gone way beyond the episode thread, and I think all that has been speculated upon Nathan and Stana's relationship or non-relationship has been adequately covered.

 

So let's try to get back to the episode, assuming there is anyone left who wants to talk about it.

 

Thank you!

[Cyranetta]

Ran across a reviewer new to me who had a thoughtful take on "The Nose"

(which led me to read her other reviews). In one of the Castle reviews she makes the point that Castle episodes are assemblages of TV Tropes, and I suspect that part of the difficultly of S8 has been that tropes have been violated, and in a show with as small a regular cast as Castle, it's more of a problem, especially after a number of years. A larger cast show can be like a gel-filled balloon -- you can squish it all sorts of ways, and it doesn't lose its integrity.