S03.E02: Betrothed

[ElectricBoogaloo]

NOTE: Reign airs on Thursdays in Canada. If you are an American viewer who do not want to be spoiled before watching the episode on Friday, you have been warned!

 

 

 

Quote

Elizabeth must deal with the political backlash of harboring Catherine in England, while Catherine is imprisoned upon her return to France. Mary is forced to make some difficult decisions about securing Scotland's future and Lola is conflicted in her feelings for Narcisse.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OANDqY-bgY

 

 

[brisbydog]

Wow the Narcisse/Lola stuff is moving at quite a clip. In two episodes we have had more dialogue between them than all last year. Glad the wedding is on as long as Francis dies. Another reason to look forward to it lol. Hope she does not find out about the rat..but we know she will.

 

Finally figured out who Amy Dudley is screwing; it is Nicholas Throckmorton who was French ambassador and a possible Mary sympathizer

 

Elizabeth is hard core. Really enjoying her character. And Catherine is going to be going full blazes for Mary when she gets out. Doubt Charles will really turn against his mommy. Historically his whole reign was under her thumb. Really want Mary to go to Scotland this year. I still think they should cast Regbo as Darnley. Would explain why she marries him in haste and keep the actor on the show.

 

This season so far is making me very happy. Pity it is buried on Fridays in the US

[Artsda]

The whole Mary agreeing to marry Francis's little brother reminded my of Game of Thrones. Can't Francis legitimize Bash and have him marry Mary?

 

I think Mary had the right idea. They should just sentence Catherine to death instead of letting her do all her plotting from jail.

 

Love Leith & Claude and Lola&Narcisse. 

 

They're doing great this season.

[PinkRibbons]

I liked Charles the most when he wasn't taking Francis and Mary's advice. Since when has their reign been happily received? They had a frikkin' seige and potential civil war on their hands less than a year ago. Mary has been a terrible queen of France from a-z, prioritizing Scotland, having an affair with the worst possible person available. Catherine may be a magnificent bastard, but she is magnificent. Mary is still a child playing with ideals and I am done with her. She should enjoy that power while she can because Catherine is going to eat her alive when Francis is dead.

 

Also, why in hell did no one bring up that they would need a papal dispensation for Mary to marry Charles? Henry the Eighth used his first wife's marriage to his older brother as a reason to divorce, he might have even gotten the divorce if Katherine of Aragon didn't have so many ties to the pope. And now you have to wonder how the pope would feel about all this -- it is important to have a Catholic queen nipping at the borders of England, but having her in charge of France with her poor record (especially concerning religious tolerance), vs. Catherine's brilliant mind and proven track record, and her absolute devotion to the church?

 

As it is, there would be no way Mary could marry Charles without around at least a year passing after Francis's death -- both for the dispensation and for decency's sake. All Charles has to do is let Catherine out of the dungeon as soon as he becomes king and faces his first crisis. Let's see, his future wife Mary trying to grab all resources for Scotland and avoiding any nasty decisions (CONDE SHOULD BE DEAD) or his mother Catherine, foremost bent on protecting him and France. I wonder who wins. [/sarcasm]

 

Elizabeth is still enigmatic to me. I would feel sorrier for Donatella if we knew her the way we know Kenna or Greer, but it seems that Elizabeth trusts absolutely no one and is right to. I like that she's developing such an uncrackable game face in public though. I so want her and Mary to meet face to face. They're both in the shaky part of their early rule right now, but there's a reason Elizabeth weathered it and Mary ended up missing a few things from the neck up.

[ulkis]

Gah, the actress playing Elizabeth is pretty bad, although it just might be the really shoddy writing for that plot.

 

The guy with the heart ripped out of his chest was pretty gross, but this subplot is dumb. I like Bash but they should have sent him off if this is all they could think of.

 

Shouldn't Mary not be blurting out in front of the guards that Francis killed Henry? 

[NorthstarATL]

 

Shouldn't Mary not be blurting out in front of the guards that Francis killed Henry? 

I thought the same thing when Lola told Narcisse she couldn't tell him why, but the way should be clear for their marriage soon. Narcisse might think twice about being alone with her once Francis expires!

  I've always been an Elizabeth fan, so this portrayal is difficult to digest, but Mary IS the heroine of this series, so I'll just go with it.

 

Also, why in hell did no one bring up that they would need a papal dispensation for Mary to marry Charles? Henry the Eighth used his first wife's marriage to his older brother as a reason to divorce, he might have even gotten the divorce if Katherine of Aragon didn't have so many ties to the pope. And now you have to wonder how the pope would feel about all this -- it is important to have a Catholic queen nipping at the borders of England, but having her in charge of France with her poor record (especially concerning religious tolerance), vs. Catherine's brilliant mind and proven track record, and her absolute devotion to the church?

I thought a dispensation would be needed to NOT follow the usual order of things, and marrying your sibling's widow(er) was something Royalty did quite a lot of, to preserve power, succession, etc. Mary marrying Charles would be the norm.

[ulkis]

I thought the same thing when Lola told Narcisse she couldn't tell him why, but the way should be clear for their marriage soon. Narcisse might think twice about being alone with her once Francis expires!

  I've always been an Elizabeth fan, so this portrayal is difficult to digest, but Mary IS the heroine of this series, so I'll just go with it.

 

I don't mind the nasty characterization, per se, but the childish whining about feeling like a prisoner, etc etc, does bug me. I'm all for fun bad Elizabeth, but whining sad fool for love is boring me.

 

I thought a dispensation would be needed to NOT follow the usual order of things, and marrying your sibling's widow(er) was something Royalty did quite a lot of, to preserve power, succession, etc. Mary marrying Charles would be the norm.

 

Actually I don't think marrying your sibling's widow/er occurred that often, but in any case even if it was the norm they'd still need a dispensation. After all, they married a cousin more often than not (way more often than not, actually) but they still needed a papal dispensation. Actually, that's why the lack of mention didn't bother me. I figured it was something that went without saying among them.

Edited October 17, 2015 by ulkikis

[PinkRibbons]

I thought a dispensation would be needed to NOT follow the usual order of things, and marrying your sibling's widow(er) was something Royalty did quite a lot of, to preserve power, succession, etc. Mary marrying Charles would be the norm.

 

Henry VIII was referencing this passage from Leviticus, I believe, which held with church law at the time:

 

Leviticus 20:21 New International Version (NIV)

21 “‘If a man marries his brother’s wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

 

The entire Henry VIII /Katherine of Aragon marriage was based on the pope giving special permission for them to marry.

 

A lot of the permission hinged on Katherine swearing she and Arthur never consummated their marriage, which Mary certainly can't claim -- the consummation on the show was witnessed (and I still can't get over how gross the staging of it was), and it's probably not a huge secret that Mary had a miscarriage. I mean, if the pope at the time was very motivated to support her she could probably get away with almost anything, but as it is, Catherine remains as an alternative regent, and Catherine is far and away more appealing, as she is actually competent as a ruler.

[t7686]

This season has been great so far. Anyone think that Francis' family's reaction to the news was a little... Off though? I know they're royalty and familial ties were different then but damn. Not even a hug or a "how are you felling?" Bash & Catherine especially. In the past they'd gone to great lengths to save Francis. What gives now? Instead it was a meh, let's plot for the future and bash is still on his own (and increasingly boring) show.

[ulkis]

This season has been great so far. Anyone think that Francis' family's reaction to the news was a little... Off though? I know they're royalty and familial ties were different then but damn. Not even a hug or a "how are you felling?" Bash & Catherine especially. In the past they'd gone to great lengths to save Francis. What gives now? Instead it was a meh, let's plot for the future and bash is still on his own (and increasingly boring) show.

 

I thought Catherine seemed pretty affected when she suggested it was poison. But she's also busy worrying about her own survival, and hey, if Francis' death helps her in that, imo it makes sense for her character to focus on the future, ie Charles. I guess Bash is too busy playing ye old Renaissance detective to care.

[treeofdreams]

Does Narcisse really love Lola or is he trying to gain control of Francis's son?  He's always been a schemer willing to do anything to get what he wants.  (And how appropriate is his name?!)

[Andromeda]

This show is so annoying. So many inaccuracies — usually I roll with it, but would it be so hard for the writers to come up with alternative ways to say “TRACK RECORD” hundreds of years before track was as sport? (First known use: 1952). Or avoid the word TEENAGER, another very recent invention, and substitute, say, “youth”? Really, writers, is that so hard? (First known use of "teenage": 1921). Before then, you were a child until you were an adult. Or, hey, let's just have the ladies texting each other or Googling things -- might as well go with it!

 

Then there are the plot holes — Mary acting high and mighty about Catherine committing treason, when she herself committed treason in two different ways last season (sleeping with another man while being queen is treason in and of itself, but she also plotted against the crown!). Bitch said to Catherine “Traitors should pay with their lives.” Hey, Mary, get in line! How the writers could ignore that adultery is a crime that gets a death sentence, when this is the era right after Henry VIII and his daughter — who lost her mother exactly in that way — is one of the characters on the show, just blows my mind.

 

And their rewriting of their own show's history to pretend that Mary and Francis have some kind of Great Love is also ridiculous, considering Mary was in love with Bash once and that other guy last year, too. She's extremely fickle, but now she's declaring she could never possibly love another man, and its absurd for Francis to even think such a thing. Idiocy! Surely all of her antics last year would show Francis that -- even if they mended their marriage -- she's an awful ruler.

 

And Catherine would not be put in the typical crappy dungeon — royals got put in the tops of the towers, even while arrested and waiting to lose their heads. This isn't just any royal, it's the king's own mother. (A woman from a powerful Italian family, who apparently don't care about her welfare.) Even under arrest, royals and nobles had servants and baths and help dressing and access to pen and paper for their correspondence (though it was monitored) and decent food. It was a very class-conscious society.

 

Aaaand they had to go and make Elizabeth a “mean girl” after all. Or spoiled little rich girl. I don't see the real Elizabeth I in this silly-girl portrayal at all. *sigh* Why am I still watching? It’s like a death watch — I’m sticking with it to see how it ends, which I expect to happen soon.

 

I have no interest in Bash’s story, or the brat sister and the servant boy.  Lola and the cad is marginally more interesting, I knew Catherine wasn't thinking about planting rats in the girl's bathwater. Surprised Lola is that dumb.

 

Catherine is the true regent of choice -- she loves her sons and knows how to keep them in power. Mary is a twit -- like Charles said, why do they need Scotland? Catherine is pretty much the show for me, and I root for her above all, which is not at all what the show creators intend.

 

I'm also bugged, but have come to accept, the mischaracterization of the castles these royals lived in. Elizabeth ruled from Whitehall, which was in London. Not out in the middle of nowhere country. The same is true of the French royals. The show portrays them like they're in Medieval times, but they were quite cosmopolitan by the late 1500s, with festivals, plays, fashion, balls, banquets, etc. They ruled from palaces in or near their capital cities, not from castles out in the countryside.

 

Francis looks the very picture of health. I don't see much evidence of this sickness -- they could at least make him pale or tired or something.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Andromeda

[ulkis]

Then there are the plot holes — Mary acting high and mighty about Catherine committing treason, when she herself committed treason in two different ways last season (sleeping with another man while being queen is treason in and of itself, but she also plotted against the crown!). Bitch said to Catherine “Traitors should pay with their lives.” Hey, Mary, get in line! How the writers could ignore that adultery is a crime that gets a death sentence, when this is the era right after Henry VIII and his daughter — who lost her mother exactly in that way — is one of the characters on the show, just blows my mind.

 

 

There are tons of plot holes on this show, but  I wouldn't count Mary's hypocrisy as one of them. It's just, well, Mary's hypocrisy. Just because Mary isn't pointing out her own treason doesn't mean the writers aren't aware of it (although I wouldn't bet against it).

 

Catherine is the true regent of choice -- she loves her sons and knows how to keep them in power. Mary is a twit -- like Charles said, why do they need Scotland? Catherine is pretty much the show for me, and I root for her above all, which is not at all what the show creators intend.

 

Oh, I think the creators/writers love Catherine. I think they imprisoned her to give Mary/Francis a bit of a "win", since she eventually ends up on top again. Even if the writers create some absurd scenario where Mary and Francis create decoys to take their place and they run away together into the sunset, Catherine is still going to end up regent (unless the show, again, changes history drastically, but I doubt it in this case.)

Edited October 19, 2015 by ulkikis

[Andromeda]

There are tons of plot holes on this show, but  I wouldn't count Mary's hypocrisy as one of them. It's just, well, Mary's hypocrisy. Just because Mary isn't pointing out her own treason doesn't mean the writers aren't aware of it (although I wouldn't bet against it).

 

Oh, I think the creators/writers love Catherine. I think they imprisoned her to give Mary/Francis a bit of a "win", since she eventually ends up on top again. Even if the writers create some absurd scenario where Mary and Francis create decoys to take their place and they run away together into the sunset, Catherine is still going to end up regent (unless the show, again, changes history drastically, but I doubt it in this case.)

 

I agree, and yes, Mary is definitely hypocritical, but I don't see any evidence that the writers think Mary is being hypocritical. I think they want us to root for Mary and think poorly of Catherine. The fact a lot of us don't is a failure on their part. The whole opening montage this season (last episode) was devoted to the wondrous Mary/Francis romance and worked hard to remind us what Catherine did to deserve their disdain. But my memory isn't that short. I also agree they love Catherine -- as the villain, but they still want us to think she's villainous compared to the heroine Mary.

[ulkis]

I also agree they love Catherine -- as the villain, but they still want us to think she's villainous compared to the heroine Mary.

 

I agree, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Catherine is a villain. She has some layers but overall she has done a lot of things she hasn't had to do in the name of ruling. Now whether Mary is just as bad and they're presenting her as a good person in this, I couldn't say whether Mary is just as bad or not, because to be honest I barely paid attention to her last year. From what I've seen though, I do think Mary is more stupid than bad.

[Andromeda]

I agree, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Catherine is a villain. She has some layers but overall she has done a lot of things she hasn't had to do in the name of ruling. Now whether Mary is just as bad and they're presenting her as a good person in this, I couldn't say whether Mary is just as bad or not, because to be honest I barely paid attention to her last year. From what I've seen though, I do think Mary is more stupid than bad.

Well, I don't think they want us to think of her as stupid, either, hah. That's a failing of the show, she's not the heroine they want her to be.