O.J. Simpson: The Many Docs

[BooBear]

Add me to not giving a shit if OJ has CTE; that doesn't excuse him for being a double murderer. It's like there's no such thing as personal responsibility. What's next? The sudden discovery of a tumor in Bill Cosby's brain to explain away why he's a multiple rapist and it's not his fault?

 

You obviously don't understand CTE or a tumor on the brain. There would be no personal responsibility because you aren't in control any more and you really have no idea. CTE is a progressive degenerative brain disease that can manifest in depression, disorientation and aggression. Your brain shrinks and plaques form in a mechanism similar to dementia.  At least one other football player Jovan Belcher was a killer and it was found he had it. Many many others killed them selves or were extremely violent with family raising concerns about the abrupt change in personality of their loved one.  It can't be diagnosed until death so we will see.

 

If Bill Cosby has a tumor on his brain that caused his sexual deviance, then yes, it wouldn't be his fault.

Edited February 4, 2016 by BooBear

[WendyCR72]

I just don't buy OJ having CTE. I DO buy he was an arrogant rich SOB who let his anger issues lead him to murder two people, one of whom he was married to, the mother of two of his kids, and someone he was known to have a history of rage episodes against. At some point, when you end up in prison anyway, it speaks to a lack of character and a sense of entitlement than any TBI here.

 

But that's my take.

[pennben]

You obviously don't understand CTE or a tumor on the brain. There would be no personal responsibility because you aren't in control any more and you really have no idea. CTE is a progressive degenerative brain disease that can manifest in depression, disorientation and aggression. Your brain shrinks and plaques form in a mechanism similar to dementia.  At least one other football player Jovan Belcher was a killer and it was found he had it. Many many others killed them selves or were extremely violent with family raising concerns about the abrupt change in personality of their loved one.  It can't be diagnosed until death so we will see.

 

If Bill Cosby has a tumor on his brain that caused his sexual deviance, then yes, it wouldn't be his fault.

 

It was just announced Kenny Stabler had CTE, I don't recall him murdering others.  I believe it was noted that Frank Gifford had CTE, again, I'm not recalling the murders he committed.  Honestly, is there a list somewhere of those that have been diagnosed with CTE and what subset of them have committed murders? It seems to not be the only thing that could happen.  It seems some folks continue to maintain control so I'm not buying the 'get out of jail free card' you are selling.

[Shannon L.]

 

It was just announced Kenny Stabler had CTE, I don't recall him murdering others.  I believe it was noted that Frank Gifford had CTE, again, I'm not recalling the murders he committed.  Honestly, is there a list somewhere of those that have been diagnosed with CTE and what subset of them have committed murders? It seems to not be the only thing that could happen.  It seems some folks continue to maintain control so I'm not buying the 'get out of jail free card' you are selling.

Maybe if the person was prone to moments of rage/violent behavior while still healthy it would get 10x worse with CTE?  I don't think it should be a 'get out of jail free card', either, but if it was something that could be proved before a person died, it would probably work for some sort of insanity defense, where they still go away for a long time, but to a different kind of institution. 

[pennben]

I think you have the absolute right thinking  Shannon L.  I don't believe that an insanity defense is the answer, but if a person could show diminished capacity, I could see a lessening of charges based on intent or lessening punishment for the same reason.  I do not agree that CTE issues mean "no personal responsibility" as suggested by someone else above.

Edited February 4, 2016 by pennben

[Shannon L.]

 

I don't believe that an insanity defense is the answer, but if a person could show diminished capacity,

Diminished capacity.  I knew insanity wasn't right, but I couldn't think of the right term. 

[ennui]

I can't find the PTV topic for The People vs OJ Simpson. Anyone?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I can't find the PTV topic for The People vs OJ Simpson. Anyone?

 

ennui It's under the American Crime Story forum.

 

Here's the link

 

ETA: For any that may be interested, A&E is reairing this documentary this Saturday at 10 p.m.

Edited February 5, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[ennui]

Thank you, GHScorpiosRule. 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

I fault the judge, who should have roped them in and not allowed them to play the race card, and the jury who clearly had no intention of convicting, no matter what.  I remember the tensions in LA at the time with Rodney King and Reginald Denny but the jury was not supposed to consider those factors when they deliberated and they obviously did.  Three hours shows, in my opinion, they did not seriously deliberate on the evidence or the case at all.  It was shameful.

Judge Ito was an incompetent starf**ker who fell in love with his own celebrity. On at least one occasion, he let the jury sit in the jury box in the courtroom while he was in his chambers making the lawyers watch a "Dancing Itos" skit from The Tonight Show. Kardashian later said he was horrified by the way Ito was acting.

As for the jury: As the verdict was being read, one of them raised his fist and made the Black Power salute towards Simpson. I think we can be forgiven for doubting his commitment to objectively deciding the case (eyeroll).

 

One of the documentaries addressed the reason why Kardashian stayed on the defense team. The show interviewed Kris Jenner about it, and she said she was questioning him about it at the time too. I don't remember exactly what she said but I got the impression that he felt that if he left it would send a strong signal of Simpson's guilt and would likely jeopardize his client's chances. And as was mentioned above, he signed on to defend him. I'm reminded of the movie Cape Fear where the villain's defense attorney had information that would've helped his client, but suppressed it because he believed he was guilty and wanted him to go to prison. The attorney violated his professional duty to his client. I think Kardashian was basically trapped, and the best he could do was hope that Simpson was convicted, while still maintaining his professional code of ethics.

Robert Kardashian was a former entertainment lawyer who'd become an agent and let his law license expire. He has a few conversations with OJ right after the murders, and suddenly he renews his license and is seated at the table every day of a criminal trial. Why? The big rumor was that OJ had confessed his guilt to Kardashian right before the big freeway chase. Kardashian of course could be subpoenaed about that conversation, UNLESS he's OJ's lawyer, in which case the conversation is privileged. That's why he took such a focal role in the case.

 

Also, the prosecutor who was to try the case had a heart attack or something, and Clark and Darden had to step in.  I've often wondered how things would have gone with the older and more-experienced guy.  I don't think he would have let Ito get away with treating him the way Ito treated Clark in particular.

The two prosecutors were originally going to be Bill Hodgman and Marcia Clark. Clark wanted the head prosecutor job and lobbied for it. She was TOTALLY the wrong choice, however. A month or so before jury selection, Hodgman and Clark flew to Phoenix to speak with a top-flight jury consultant. The consultant had both of them give summations of the case before a mock jury of African-American women, as he figured they would make up most of the jury pool. After the summations, he asked the jurors to describe their personal feelings about both of them in one or two words. He started with Hodgman and went around the room. Almost all of them said "Uncle" or "Grandfather," depending on their ages. Then he asked about Clark. The women looked at each other for a moment, and then almost in unison said "B**CH!". Remember that the situation was a shrewish white woman prosecuting a handsome famous black athlete for the murder of his beautiful white trophy wife. For whatever reasons, this dynamic was not going to go over well with African-American women. The consultant officially recommended that Hodgman, not Clark, be the lead attorney. She disregarded his findings completely and told him he didn't know what he was talking about.

 

Darden came in because he was the case manager, which is the attorney who works behind the scenes making sure the witnesses are ready to go and exhibits prepared properly. When Hodgman was warned off the case by his doctor after suffering chest pains, Darden was the natural choice to take Hodgman's job as assistant prosecutor because he knew the most about the case. However, the appearance to the black members of jury was that of an Uncle Tom coming in to make the prosecution look good.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[GHScorpiosRule]

I thought I was immune to all things related to this case, since it's been so long, and until last Fall, I really hadn't thought about it. But damn. This special, hearing Fred Goldman and Kim Goldman break down in tears, and the last video of Ron, singing, dancing, and goofing off with his dad, Fred. It got to me. I teared up.

 

And I couldn't believe how OJ was flat out lying in his deposition, and the way he tried answer by not answering and trying to avoid admitting that he did abuse Nicole. Even when presented with proof. I just...I don't have any words.

 

Since the civil trial was so soon after the criminal, and people were still very much divided, I'm thankful, that there weren't any riots because he was found responsible for the deaths of Ron and Nicole. Just based on the footage that was shown of the people who still believed in OJ and were on his side.

[Umbelina]

http://www.aetv.com/shows/oj-speaks-the-hidden-tapes/season-1/episode-1

 

You can watch the whole show here if you missed it.

 

http://simpson.walraven.org/index.html

All kinds of information from both trials is here.  Including depositions, trial transcripts, evidence, etc.

[Isabella15]

THANK you, Umbelina, for the trove of trial records at the walraven.org site!  Wonderful resource.  

 

And this may have been asked already, but do we know why Judge Ito would not impose a gag order on everybody?   It's always acknowledged that Johnnie Cochran's press conferences on the courthouse steps were a major factor influencing public and media opinion and I couldn't figure out why the judge allowed that to continue.

[DangerousMinds]

He should have, but the jury was sequestered.

[Chaos Theory]

THANK you, Umbelina, for the trove of trial records at the walraven.org site! Wonderful resource.

And this may have been asked already, but do we know why Judge Ito would not impose a gag order on everybody? It's always acknowledged that Johnnie Cochran's press conferences on the courthouse steps were a major factor influencing public and media opinion and I couldn't figure out why the judge allowed that to continue.

I don't think anyone expected shit to get so far out of hand as it got. It was supposed to be just a trial. Then it turned into a celebrity trial which is bad enough. Then it turned into a indictment on race relations.....shit snowballed.