S08.E03: PhDead

[Hipshooter]

All said and done...this show needs an influx of NEW writing talent. 

 

 

No...........lets keep the original story line of Beckett's mothers murder going with different twist till the wheels fall off.

 

[FlickerToAFlame]

At least Ryan and Espo are actually likeable again. They seem truly supportive of both Castle and Beckett, and the comic bits have been well played. (I especially liked Ryan's "no thanks. No thaaaanks" when Castle offers to help them get to the frat boy suspect).

[pepper]

The last time fans were baying for Beckett's blood because they thought she was selfish, we got the Douchebag arc, supposedly for fan-satisfying "balance". We saw a man deliberately setting out to hurt someone he supposedly cared about and trashing the symbols of their relationship. No thanks.

 

If Castle finds out why she left - essentially to risk her life for a case without risking his, I expect him to be angry. Not at her selfishness, but at her refusing to let him see her neurosis - because that is what pursuit of the New Big Bad on her own amounts to, and she has pretty much admitted as much. But to find the idea of what she has done so unforgivable as to decide that the marriage is no longer viable, one has to hold the view that there wasn't much to save in the first place. Fortunately I don't think either character holds that opinion.

 

While I can live indefinitely without the angsty fallout of this plot contrivance, the longer it persists, the more angsty will be the melodrama it causes, so I want it done. Writers, you've had your re-boot, no please let Castle find out so they can have their predictable fight. That inevitable and required fight is hanging over the fluffiness like the sword of effing Damocles and it's not what I signed up for. By all means keep them apart as they work though it, but enough with the secrets. The Season!of!Sekrits! was the worst for the show, so that did not need to be rebooted along with the UST.

[verdana]

At least Ryan and Espo are actually likeable again. They seem truly supportive of both Castle and Beckett, and the comic bits have been well played. (I especially liked Ryan's "no thanks. No thaaaanks" when Castle offers to help them get to the frat boy suspect).

Yeah that's a positive I took from that episode, I've disliked Espo for a quite a while so it was a welcome relief to find myself enjoying his contributions, thought the boys had a bit more spark and I laughed at some of their reactions. 

[madmaverick]

Anyone else laugh and think of ShayJean when Castle made that crack about telling the kid to take off his sunglasses indoors because he looked a tool?  Heh.  And yeah, honestly, I think it's a bit too much for two 40+ year olds to wear sunglasses indoors even if they're would be rock stars.  Even when Bono does it.

 

I did also laugh at that tidbit about Ryan leaving Castle lots of calls.  Of course he would.  Such a Ryan thing to do.  Ear hair!  Heh.

 

Some people want Castle to be angry.  I'm not saying that there's not a time and a place for that given the monumental choice Beckett's made to pack and leave her husband without really explaining and the hurt she's caused him.  But where does being angry really get you at the end of the day?  Especially if you want to keep the marriage going and you still really, really love your wife.  For all the times he's been married, Castle seems to be someone who takes marriage seriously and takes the commitment of it seriously, and doesn't just quit at the first sign of challenges.  For better or for worse, he really meant it, even if it looks like it's 'for worse' for now.  He doesn't give up on Beckett in the way that Beckett doesn't give up on her obsession. ;)  So yeah, he's fighting to understand and trying to make sure he's fulfilling enough for Beckett because that's a real insecurity of his.  Once he understands what Beckett's trying to do, he should be angry then.  Fearing that she'll get herself killed would be reason enough for his anger.  But I'm guessing that the show will show that The Conspiracy Has To Be Stopped At All Costs. ;)

Not thinking that lashing out is the only way to react doesn't mean they don't still have serious issues of trust etc. to resolve down the line.  But being angry doesn't really help solve the problems in the relationship.

 

Naturally the father/daughter relationships is not the same as husband/wife, but I think if it were Alexis 'acting out' so to speak, Castle would still realise that getting angry wouldn't get him his daughter back and resolve whatever the issue was.

 

I don't think that Castle thinks it's his responsibility, but he WANTS to fix things. He wants his wife back. I know some people think its strange or pathetic that Castle is trying to win back Kate, but I think it would be bizarre if he DIDN'T try to win her back. It's his wife! Should he just let her walk out the door, obviously grappling with a problem, and not try to help?

 

 

This.

 

Did Castle say that after they found the professor, they were going to call in the "calvary"?

Yes.  Thought it might have been an Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D reference.  And thought the stake through the body might have been a Firefly reference.  Or not.  Maybe Bowman just likes his super graphic murder victims.  More 'cinematic'. ;)

 

Laughed again at Castle's face in reaction to Lucy's "Sucks to be you, Rick."  Heh.  

 

I want to hear Beckett call Castle 'Rick' again.  Castle calling Beckett 'Honey' may be a regular thing now.  I don't mind it.

 

I really hope they don't use Castle's disappearance as a way to redeem Beckett's actions.  That would neither be right or fair.  If Castle made mistakes of his own, he should be held accountable for them. Same for Beckett.  They're not the same thing, as far as I can tell, and even if they were (which I hope not and wouldn't make much sense), each person needs to take responsibility for their own choices and make amends for their own actions.  And yes, there's a difference between Houdini and being Houdini-ed!  I hope the fact that there was that line in there means the writers realise Castle disappearing and Beckett choosing to leave is not the same thing at all.

 

 

So I'm all alone on my private island as one who did enjoy the episode? :P

 

What am I? Chop liver!!! ;)

 

My bad.  The private island is so big.  I didn't spot you lounging in your beach villa over there. :P

Edited October 7, 2015 by madmaverick

[metaphor]

I want to hear Beckett call Castle 'Rick' again.  Castle calling Beckett 'Honey' may be a regular thing now.  I don't mind it.

 

Yep. I don't mind "honey" either. He started with it last year, and I like it better than "sweetie." As for "Rick," I think Beckett tends to use it in more serious moments. See: "What about you, Rick?," "What am I supposed to do, Rick?," and most recently, "Rick, do you trust me?" So maybe we'll be hearing it again over the course of this arc. 

 

I really hope they don't use Castle's disappearance as a way to redeem Beckett's actions.  That would neither be right or fair.  If Castle made mistakes of his own, he should be held accountable for them. Same for Beckett.  They're not the same thing, as far as I can tell, and even if they were (which I hope not and wouldn't make much sense), each person needs to take responsibility for their own choices and make amends for their own actions.  And yes, there's a difference between Houdini and being Houdini-ed!  I hope the fact that there was that line in there means the writers realise Castle disappearing and Beckett choosing to leave is not the same thing at all.

 

I have a feeling they're not comparing Castle's initial disappearance with Beckett's choice to leave, but more Castle's choice (should they paint it as such) to stay away for those six unaccounted weeks and Beckett's choice to stay away from him now. Maybe they'll even tie the A storylines in together; Hawley seemed to be intimating such in one of the many interviews the new showrunners gave.

 

As to whether the comparison will be acceptable to viewers, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I do agree that a healthy end to this separation should involve both parties taking responsibility for their actions and making amends and rebuilding trust, and not just sweeping Beckett's choice and all the pain it caused under the rug because hey, Castle made a choice that brought her pain in the past, too. 

[lion10]

The last time fans were baying for Beckett's blood because they thought she was selfish, we got the Douchebag arc, supposedly for fan-satisfying "balance". We saw a man deliberately setting out to hurt someone he supposedly cared about and trashing the symbols of their relationship. No thanks.

What Douchebag arc are you talking about? The "worst" thing I remember Castle doing is showing up to a crime scene with a stewardess to get over Beckett rejecting him. Again.

[Hipshooter]

Cue up the new writers. The present group is done.

[pepper]

What Douchebag arc are you talking about? The "worst" thing I remember Castle doing is showing up to a crime scene with a stewardess to get over Beckett rejecting him. Again.

If that's all you saw then I'm in no position to explain to you what I'm talking about. Been there, analyzed it to death, never bought the DVD or watched the episodes again.

[WendyCR72]

Let's watch the borderline snide attitudes, please. Do we need another reminder about different opinions?

 

Keep it civil.

[lion10]

If that's all you saw then I'm in no position to explain to you what I'm talking about. Been there, analyzed it to death, never bought the DVD or watched the episodes again.

 

Seriously though, what "Douchebag Arc" are you talking about?  Give me a few episode numbers so I can look them up and see what preceded them.

[turnitwayup]

Seriously though, what "Douchebag Arc" are you talking about?  Give me a few episode numbers so I can look them up and see what preceded them.

 

They were fine in Once Upon a Crime and Dance with Death so it starts at 47 Seconds with him finding out that Beckett remember the shooting. Then The Limey when he showed up with Jacinda. Headhunters everyone was kinda butthurt that Castle was hanging with Slaughter. Undead Again, Castle's plan was to have the last case with Beckett until she admitted that she was in therapy trying to get better. Finally got together in Always.

[sinkwriter]

 

"You're gonna get yourself killed" Even Smith is telling her to let it go, that she could be happy. Of course her response is, that she can't.. SIGH

 

I found this episode mostly entertaining. The actors definitely put as much spark into it as possible, and there were glimmers of the early seasons teasing and eyeing each other.

 

But... this whole "reasoning" Beckett has for her separation from Castle, and her lack of real explanation to him, just ruins a lot of it for me. Because it MAKES NO SENSE! And when she's got everyone telling her to let it go, even spy guy Smith, it's time to let it go, or let someone else investigate it, for fuck's sake. She's not staying away from Castle, she's not even showing that she's really separated from him, she's not acting like she doesn't care about him - so who would she fool? If the bad guys figure out that she's investigating, then they have every reason to go after Castle or Alexis or Martha to get to Kate and mess with her head and destroy her. So who is she protecting by not telling Castle what's going on and why she's doing what she's doing? She's going to get herself killed, she's going to get the rest of them killed. And I don't think Castle would survive losing his daughter because of Beckett. Their relationship would never recover. And once Castle figures out that she's trying to do it all alone once again, in an effort to "protect" him -- something she once felt very angry at him for doing, when he didn't tell her about Smith, out of an effort to "protect"HER -- it's just unbelievable that he would forgive her for ruining their relationship over yet another quest. Enough already!

 

She's smarter than this. She's already learned this lesson repeatedly.

 

But apparently not according to the writers. And that ticks me off. It's just ridiculous writing.

[Chado]

I found this episode mostly entertaining. The actors definitely put as much spark into it as possible, and there were glimmers of the early seasons teasing and eyeing each other.

 

But... this whole "reasoning" Beckett has for her separation from Castle, and her lack of real explanation to him, just ruins a lot of it for me. Because it MAKES NO SENSE! And when she's got everyone telling her to let it go, even spy guy Smith, it's time to let it go, or let someone else investigate it, for fuck's sake. She's not staying away from Castle, she's not even showing that she's really separated from him, she's not acting like she doesn't care about him - so who would she fool? If the bad guys figure out that she's investigating, then they have every reason to go after Castle or Alexis or Martha to get to Kate and mess with her head and destroy her. So who is she protecting by not telling Castle what's going on and why she's doing what she's doing? She's going to get herself killed, she's going to get the rest of them killed. And I don't think Castle would survive losing his daughter because of Beckett. Their relationship would never recover. And once Castle figures out that she's trying to do it all alone once again, in an effort to "protect" him -- something she once felt very angry at him for doing, when he didn't tell her about Smith, out of an effort to "protect"HER -- it's just unbelievable that he would forgive her for ruining their relationship over yet another quest. Enough already!

 

She's smarter than this. She's already learned this lesson repeatedly.

 

But apparently not according to the writers. And that ticks me off. It's just ridiculous writing.

This.

[verdana]

I laughed when in one review they said "what happened did the bad guys take a week off?" and it's true, it looks even more ridiculous the emphasis on this all powerful LOCKSAT. The big bad is only trouble when the writers need them to be otherwise everyone can carry pretty much as usual.

And I don't think Castle would survive losing his daughter because of Beckett. Their relationship would never recover.

It would recover, the writers would make sure Castle quickly got over it like he gets over everything else. Given that they've produced out of nowhere Robotic!Obsessed!Beckett I wouldn't put anything past them in terms of generating drama whilst maintaining their "love" story immaterial of events that would normally well and truly scupper any real life relationship. The characters are increasingly behaving in ways that defy logic and common sense but it doesn't matter because "love conquers all" when the harsh reality is it doesn't, you can only push the envelope so far in the search for excitement and drama by tearing down the characters before something gets broken that can't be repaired.

And once Castle figures out that she's trying to do it all alone once again, in an effort to "protect" him -- something she once felt very angry at him for doing, when he didn't tell her about Smith, out of an effort to "protect"HER -- it's just unbelievable that he would forgive her for ruining their relationship over yet another quest. Enough already!

That's another thing that bothers me, she's seemingly happy to deprive him of agency but when that happened to her she went apeshit quite rightly when it affected HER life. That was wrong and yet she has no qualms about doing exactly the same thing supposedly again in the name of love, there's nothing loving about that and she's stupidly putting him in more danger not less by keeping him the dark. I hope Castle does get angry when he finds out because she's treating him like a child not a grown man who has a right to make his own decisions about something that could end up getting not only her killed but other members of his family. Edited October 8, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

Only on Castle could they use the 'I must leave to protect you' trope as the basis for a major story arc and the person continues to stick around.

[Chado]

I wish they were more clear that Beckett is doing all of this to protect Castle, because I don't see it at all. Maybe if the threat was actually directly related to her/Castle then I could understand this whole thing and see both sides but it really isn't like that at all. It's more about her obsession then any noble effort by her to protect Castle, to keep Castle away from this. She is protecting Castle from herself is the only argument I see, but they are married, so I don't buy that debate.

 

It annoys me when people keep saying it as well, that TPTB keep saying it in interviews. "She is doing it to protect him; and at the end of the day it's about love". Uhh.....no it really isn't. This entire thing is about Beckett.....They clearly showed that she was given a choice to walk away and live her life with Castle, they've also clearly showed multiple (objective) people tell her to walk away from this, and she refuses to do so. So what part of this is about protecting Castle?

 

It's like people are being fed the company line and just swallow it whole without intelligent thought, completely refusing to actually look at the situation for what it is. So many fanfics covering season 8 and general responses on forums/social media keep harping on about how she is doing this to protect him, ignoring the entire premise of what protection even means in this situation, and the entire reality of her decision.

 

Castle back in season 4 was not given a choice to back away from the situation. He was given a warning/information and had to make a decision, try and keep Beckett from getting herself killed, or tell her everything, and hope she wouldn't. Beckett had a choice to walk away entirely or throw her marriage under the bus and pursue a case. She didn't choose Castle.

 

And yet everybody wants/expects Castle to just go try and win his wife back, ignoring the history of the show, ignoring the circumstances of the situation..If Castle becomes angry during this (I hope he does) he gets called a douchebag and it just makes no sense to me at all. If Beckett was protecting Castle I'd sympathize more with her and the situation, but they failed to show that. I really struggle to understand how this is being done out of love either.

 

Castle needs to find out the truth as to why she broke up with him, give her an ultimatum of some sort, and then walk away when she chooses the case (we know she will). Any other action from Castle, just makes no sense to me.

 

I must be watching a different show from most people. The show I've been watching in season 8 isn't even remotely explaining how Beckett is protecting Castle here.

[KaveDweller]

I think what were supposed to think, is that Beckett doesn't feel she has a choice because of her obsession. Of to her it is investigate with Castle and put both their lives at risk or investigate alone so he has a shot at safety. I'm not defending that, I think that's what's going on in her (messed up) head.

It seems that these new bad guys only care about who is investigating, not who those people love. So Beckett left to keep Castle from finding out what she's doing, not because physically being around him is dangerous. Which is weird for the bad guys to not care about, but.....plot trumps logic.

[Chado]

Nobody is making that distinction though, not generally anyway. 'Beckett is protecting Castle from danger' is different than 'Beckett is protecting Castle because she has mental issues that can/should potentially ruin her marriage and/or get people killed from her own actions'. The two scenarios should generate a different response from Castle.

[KaveDweller]

Yes, I agree. Castle showrunners are traditionally bad at giving interviews. They always seem to be watching a slightly different show.

I hope we get an appropriate reaction from Castle when he finds out, although I still want them to work it out.

[Chado]

My feeling on wanting them to work it out is dependent on whether they sufficiently explain why Beckett won't do it again. They need to actually focus on the issue itself and not just the secret case and the status quo of Castle pushing and Beckett pulling away.

 

I get the feeling they won't adequately explain why Castle should 'take her back' or trust that it won't happen again. They'll treat this whole thing like the case ending = their reunion, which misses the entire point of this to begin with.

 

The fact this is probably the last season only makes me more sure of that happening. They won't spend the time required to show it.

[sinkwriter]

 

I laughed when in one review they said "what happened did the bad guys take a week off?" and it's true, it looks even more ridiculous the emphasis on this all powerful LOCKSAT. The big bad is only trouble when the writers need them to be otherwise everyone can carry pretty much as usual.

 

LOL! Yeah, you'd think that for a while they'd be on hyper-alert, keeping an eye on Beckett to make sure she's not investigating anything. I don't believe for a second that bad guys who pursued her THAT hard would just believe that she's not going to dot the i's and cross the t's of the case and make absolutely sure it's solved. They'd be watching her like crazy. And in doing so, they'd see her with Castle - which means all her supposed reasons for separating from her to "protect" him from harm go right out the window.

 

The thing is, if this were just about Beckett wanting justice, I get that. That is in line with her character. She's always been about the victim, since the very beginning, for very personal reasons. I can also see her saying, "You know, I thought I would be over this, especially with Bracken dead, but it feels unfinished. It feels stirred up again, and I know it's foolish, but I need to see this through. Especially because people I worked with were killed because of MY digging."

 

However... her choosing to do this while keeping Castle in the dark is what makes no sense. Because there's no way her pursuing the case by herself will keep him (or anyone else she loves) safe. That's just nonsense and the writers are trying to force it anyway. That's where the plot goes completely off the rails for me. And it annoys me because I feel like it's writing that's insulting to the viewers. 

[verdana]

Castle had to be reminded by ESPO of all people, that hey, maybe sending your nubile young daughter into a frat party dressed as a slutty angel wasn't such a good idea. And he brought her into a potentially dangerous situation, both of them unarmed.

In their desire to give Molly more to do they risk turning Castle into this indifferent parent, his relationship with Alexis was one of the things that made him attractive and likeable in the early days. What they're doing here annoys me more than the separation saga, he used to be a such a sensitive, loving but strong father and that overprotective streak he's exhibited in the past feels entirely in keeping as a single man protecting his only daughter.

 

That's why I can't get on board with Daddydaughter investigations because they're having Castle say and do things that have me wondering if the real Castle has been kidnapped and an alien has taken over his body. Each week there's a new eye rolling moment with Alexis and her dad that leaves me going huh? This week it's 50 Shades, bondage, watching her dad get drunk at a frat party and having to drive him home and drinking 50 year old whisky, I dread to think what delights are in store next week as they continue to push on with showing Alexis and her dad in this new "adult" way. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by verdana

[Sara2009]

I don't blame people for not buying the " she's doing it to protect him" company line, but I also don't think people are idiots if they do. Like most things, it's open to interpretation.

[femmefan1946]

I was flippantly saying,way upstream, that Dr Burke had put Beckett on meds to control her PTSD and obsessive behaviours, and that the reason she was acting like this was that she had stopped taking them.

But as this unwinds I am wondering if the whole season so far , at least Beckett's POV, has not been Beckett's hallucination. With a few lucid moments like the 12th's welcome to their new Captain and the meeting in the Dean's office.

Has anyone even seen Vikram except Beckett? How did he get hired by the NYPD within a day or so of leaving the AG's office?

 

I'd have to rewatch the three episodes, but maybe it really was a telemarketer. Maybe Vikram is just a new hire, never involved with the AG in any way. Maybe all the action scenes were hallucinations/daydreams based on Beckett's fears of her sudden promotion at an early stage in her career.

[lion10]

Fans hate with the white-hot passion of a thousand suns the whole "it was all a dream" twist. And Castle has met Vikram.

[CastleSeason8]

If the fans hate it so much, they might just do it!!

[lion10]

Is Alexis not in college anymore? Did she graduate?

[femmefan1946]

Okay -- there is a real Vikram, but also a hallucination Vikram? After XX he went back to DC, and the AGs office, forgetting about the murders as instructed or believing them solved by the suicide.

 

I'm into fanfiction territory here, aren't I?

[MaryM47]

Speaking of fan fiction, unless I'm not hooked into the hot new writers, I haven't noticed nearly as many new stories as there usually are after the beginning of a new season. (and I just realized I used the word "new" three times in that sentence, without benefit of pharmaceuticals) I think that in itself is very telling about how serious (not seriously crazy) fans are feeling about the show's new direction. 

[KaveDweller]

Is Alexis not in college anymore? Did she graduate?

 

She said in XY that she forged Castle's name so she could get school credit for working at the PI office.  So I assume she is still in school.

 

Okay -- there is a real Vikram, but also a hallucination Vikram? After XX he went back to DC, and the AGs office, forgetting about the murders as instructed or believing them solved by the suicide.

 

I'm into fanfiction territory here, aren't I?

 

That would actually explain why Beckett is willing to put Vikram in danger but not anyone else.  She's upset that everyone she worked with at the AG's office got killed because of her, you'd think she'd worry about Vikram.

 

I think a hallucination would be a really juicy story and I'd love to see them try it.

[TWP]

I finally watched the ep. This time, it was either that or the 3 eps of Hawaii 5.0 I've saved up. The COTW was far-fetched, but slightly entertaining. I enjoyed the greater focus on other cast members besides Beckett and Castle. I'd like to see PTB add more characters AND more story lines, including ones unlinked from Castle and Beckett.

Character development, as usual, sucks on the show, so I don't hold my breath..

I'm a broken record, I know, but the "longing" thing was annoying. These people are grownups. Stop with the 5th grade romance. I fast-forwarded. Divorce the woman, forget her stupid obsessions and date already, Castle. It would be a way better show. Bring back Kira.

It occurred to me that things are out of order. It should have been wtwt, one night together, longing, dating, living together, married. I see what they're attempting, but it's pretty difficult to make this rollback believable. TV isn't Walmart, you can't roll back :-).

I liked the focus on Alexis. Her acting is a little too abrupt though. She needs to practice nuance. Slow it down. I do think the writers did a search and replace, Beckett for Alexis on some of the lines. Other than hitting on that college kid, her lines seemed like a hack of a draft of a script meant for Beckett.

I'm not going to say it was a good episode. But there were some parts that the right people could make work in the long term. It's Castle, so they're screwing it up.

[DoctorL]

Where is this university's Committee on the Use of Human Subjects?  There's no way this prison experiment would get get approval.

[sinkwriter]

I thought the test was all done in secret. There was no approval for this project. That's why the professor had a contingency plan for when they were found out - she had her student "staff" dismantle everything so that when Castle came back with the cops, his proof was gone.

 

(Which really was foolish on Castle's part. He should have called Beckett at that point and had her come out, while he waited with Alexis and the professor. Then again, there really wasn't anything stopping the professor from ordering her students to start dismantling everything right in front of Castle. There wouldn't be much he could do - two people (he and Alexis) against an entire group of people. That whole part of the plot had some holes to it, all around.)

Edited October 12, 2015 by sinkwriter

[TWP]

Where is this university's Committee on the Use of Human Subjects?  There's no way this prison experiment would get get approval.

Yes, huge plot holes.  No way would the experiment get approval, because it would be illegal.  And no way could the courts uphold an NDA for illegal activities. 

 

But shrug, not the first time, this (and many) TV shows ignored blatant holes.

[KaveDweller]

Thw whole point was that it was an illegal experiment. Thats why the cops arrested the psych lady, why she talked rather than have anyone find out about the experiment, and why they scrubbed the prison site. They knew they could get in trouble for it.

This show has many plot holes, but the secret prison isn't one of them.

[RustbeltWriter]

This season feels like a mishmash of bad ideas. The producers and writers obviously want to move the characters along so they promote Beckett and throw in this ridiculous idea that she is driven so much by the need for justice that she fakes leaving Castle. But since the formula of the show is the two of them solving murders together the writers now have to jump through hoops to service that premise. I guess every episode will now open with Beckett giving an excuse for why she is out solving murders instead of doing her job and Castle dreaming up some esoteric reason for why he is involved. It's going to be painful to watch if I stick with it.

[TWP]

Thw whole point was that it was an illegal experiment. Thats why the cops arrested the psych lady, why she talked rather than have anyone find out about the experiment, and why they scrubbed the prison site. They knew they could get in trouble for it.

This show has many plot holes, but the secret prison isn't one of them.

It kind of is.  The notion that the students could sign away their rights in a NDA is pretty much a plot hole.  You can't make someone do something illegal (like conceal the secret prison) via an NDA  And I think that was discussed, that the reason the prison remained secret was due to NDA.  Anyone who leaves could give it's existence away, thus it couldn't exist for long.

[Guest]

Even if the NDA is illegal, as long as the person who signs it doesn't know it, it still is powerful.

[KaveDweller]

Even if the NDA is illegal, as long as the person who signs it doesn't know it, it still is powerful.

Exactly. Referencing the NDA didn't mean the NDA was legal, it just meant that was how prison lady was trying to cover herself, and explains how she got away with it for so long. It doesn't mean what she was doing was okay, in fact it makes it worse. She was manipulating them into thinking they had no rights to get away with her illegal experiment.

The students (at least the one we saw) did talk about the prison once the cops were involved.