Anya

[Lisin]

Here's your place to talk about this character. If you have a fun name for it let me know in the comments and I can change it.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎01‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 6:11 PM, Lisin said:

Here's your place to talk about this character. If you have a fun name for it let me know in the comments and I can change it.

Anya is really everything that makes this series great, starting off as a one off, one ep villainess of the week and eventually growing into a main character we knew and loved, complex, straying between good and evil, oddly lovable yet at the same time providing us with terrific comedy and a little bit of a necessary snarky edge for the otherwise very lovey dovey Scoobs. 'Selfless' is just such a tour de force and rams home her importance to the show.  

[Dee]

Selfless is a horrible episode.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

It was the least of season seven's problem. 

And still a horrible episode because season seven was that bad.

Quote

Anya is really everything that makes this series great

In my opinion Anya is exactly the opposite - she is a great example of how a great series became nigh on unwatchable. A sexist serial killer whose crimes are treated as a joke, a character with no depth whatsoever (okay, she had some depth in The Wish and Doppelangland but was quickly tuned into a funny foreigner caricature when she showed up again) and whose story was clearly made up as the show went on without any planning. She hates men enough to murder them for a thousand years but once she becomes a human she quickly forgets all that and falls in love with Xander? When we first see her she is a cunning manipulator able to blend in seamlessly in human society - then she inexplicably turns into someone who doesn't understand anything about humans. Even Spike is less of a Karma Houdini than Anya.

She was funny, I will give you that and if BtVS were a sitcom I would have considered a great character. But it's not.

Cordelia had some exaggerated traits for comedic effect, sure, but she was a million times more true to life than Anya. And here very presence in the Scooby gang didn't make a mockery of the Scoobies' mission either.

[Joe Hellandback]

8 hours ago, Dee said:

Selfless is a horrible episode.

Really? I love it for Swedish scenes alone!

1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

It was the least of season seven's problem. 

 

I think Anya was too one-dimensional for most of her run of the show, she really only gained more dimension towards the end of the season six, which was then left unexplored in season seven. For most of the run of the show, her function was mainly to provide comic relief and not much else. I love her, but Cordelia was much more complex and more authentic as a character than her replacement.

Personally I love season 7 but we'll talk about that then. I agree Anya was a comic character but she did deepen, having some air of tragedy about her. One of the reasons I liked her was she could have so easily been just a CC replacement but she became so much more than that. 

[Joe Hellandback]

50 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

And still a horrible episode because season seven was that bad.

In my opinion Anya is exactly the opposite - she is a great example of how a great series became nigh on unwatchable. A sexist serial killer whose crimes are treated as a joke, a character with no depth whatsoever (okay, she had some depth in The Wish and Doppelangland but was quickly tuned into a funny foreigner caricature when she showed up again) and whose story was clearly made up as the show went on without any planning. She hates men enough to murder them for a thousand years but once she becomes a human she quickly forgets all that and falls in love with Xander? When we first see her she is a cunning manipulator able to blend in seamlessly in human society - then she inexplicably turns into someone who doesn't understand anything about humans. Even Spike is less of a Karma Houdini than Anya.

She was funny, I will give you that and if BtVS were a sitcom I would have considered a great character. But it's not.

Cordelia had some exaggerated traits for comedic effect, sure, but she was a million times more true to life than Anya. And here very presence in the Scooby gang didn't make a mockery of the Scoobies' mission either.

I always put that down to her Anya persona blending in as part of her powers, when she becomes human they fade and she has to figure these things out for herself. In many ways Anya is the innocent as much as Angel, Spike and Darla were, she reaches out in pain and anger having no idea what she's put herself in for, even when she regains her powers she's Miss Soft Serve.  

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

I always put that down to her Anya persona blending in as part of her powers, when she becomes human they fade and she has to figure these things out for herself.

But we saw Anyanka 2.0 and thus it became quite clear that being a vengeance demon is merely a handy set of superpowers and it doesn't change people's personalities in any way. Not that it was particularly unclear before that, considering the wistfulness in Anya's voice when she talked of her days of bloody murders. Unlike vampires, Anyanka had a soul, so not only did she murder people for longer but she did it with her soul intact. She is actually much worse morally than Spike or Angel, yet the show treats her crimes as an insignificant detail. Let's do a little thought experiment - if Anya were a man who punished women by gruesomely murdering them, there would have been a storm of controversy if Joss and company had tried to portray him as a hero (Spike and Angel's problematic portrayals notwithstanding). But there isn't really any difference morally. I mean, Anyanka did not punish just men who abuse their significant others, she punished just about everyone as long as someone was asking her to do it, and didn't care one bit about collateral damage to boot.

Much of this stems from lack of planning - it's painfully obvious that at first Anya wasn't intended to stay for long and the writers probably would have added Emma Caulfield to the show as some sort of wacky alien without such a terrible past had they not already cast her as Anyanka. But ignoring her past doesn't mean it never happened. And their attempts to add depth to Anya only made things worse, IMO, because after Anyanka 2.0 even the flimsy justification that vengeance demons probably don't have souls was no longer viable.

[Halting Hex]

12 hours ago, Dee said:

Selfless is a horrible episode.

Now that's an intriguing reaction!  I'd go for it being poorly-executed (I can't see a reason to exclude Willow from the climax, given that she's the one to summon D'Hoffryn, despite the emotional pain it must cause her), given to cheap theatrics (Buffy runs Anya through to take us to commercial, even though she knows that's not how you kill a vengeance demon! And then she stands around long enough for Anya to flash back, wake up, and take the sword!  D'Hoffryn is a silly Bond-villain, faking us out by "going for the pain, not the kill"*) and it's character-destructive to Xander and a mess when it comes to Anya.  (And of course, Buffy's a bitch, but it's Season 7, so when is she not?)

But it's pretty damned effective for the first 40 minutes or so, IMO.  I'd go as far as "overrated", but not "horrible".  But I'd love to hear more of your harsher take.

*-much that I am ever so glad to see the end of Halfrek, that is.  Just as will prove the case with Anya herself, while I might celebrate the character death, I still rolled my eyes at the (pardon the pun) execution.

5 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

she is a great example of how a great series became nigh on unwatchable. A sexist serial killer whose crimes are treated as a joke, a character with no depth whatsoever

"A lot of Buffy's people are murderers, actually." —Andrew, First Date.   Hey, Joss, shining a lantern on the shit doesn't make it smell any better.  Just so you know.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎12‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 11:23 AM, Jack Shaftoe said:

But we saw Anyanka 2.0 and thus it became quite clear that being a vengeance demon is merely a handy set of superpowers and it doesn't change people's personalities in any way. Not that it was particularly unclear before that, considering the wistfulness in Anya's voice when she talked of her days of bloody murders. Unlike vampires, Anyanka had a soul, so not only did she murder people for longer but she did it with her soul intact. She is actually much worse morally than Spike or Angel, yet the show treats her crimes as an insignificant detail. Let's do a little thought experiment - if Anya were a man who punished women by gruesomely murdering them, there would have been a storm of controversy if Joss and company had tried to portray him as a hero (Spike and Angel's problematic portrayals notwithstanding). But there isn't really any difference morally. I mean, Anyanka did not punish just men who abuse their significant others, she punished just about everyone as long as someone was asking her to do it, and didn't care one bit about collateral damage to boot.

Much of this stems from lack of planning - it's painfully obvious that at first Anya wasn't intended to stay for long and the writers probably would have added Emma Caulfield to the show as some sort of wacky alien without such a terrible past had they not already cast her as Anyanka. But ignoring her past doesn't mean it never happened. And their attempts to add depth to Anya only made things worse, IMO, because after Anyanka 2.0 even the flimsy justification that vengeance demons probably don't have souls was no longer viable.

That is true to a degree, she is the whacky neighbour, the fish out of water which is played for laughs a great deal. And yes, Anya chose whilst the other's didn't. However you have to ask if Anya Jenkins, born on the 4th of July is the same person as Anyanka?

On ‎12‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 3:21 PM, Halting Hex said:

Now that's an intriguing reaction!  I'd go for it being poorly-executed (I can't see a reason to exclude Willow from the climax, given that she's the one to summon D'Hoffryn, despite the emotional pain it must cause her), given to cheap theatrics (Buffy runs Anya through to take us to commercial, even though she knows that's not how you kill a vengeance demon! And then she stands around long enough for Anya to flash back, wake up, and take the sword!  D'Hoffryn is a silly Bond-villain, faking us out by "going for the pain, not the kill"*) and it's character-destructive to Xander and a mess when it comes to Anya.  (And of course, Buffy's a bitch, but it's Season 7, so when is she not?)

But it's pretty damned effective for the first 40 minutes or so, IMO.  I'd go as far as "overrated", but not "horrible".  But I'd love to hear more of your harsher take.

*-much that I am ever so glad to see the end of Halfrek, that is.  Just as will prove the case with Anya herself, while I might celebrate the character death, I still rolled my eyes at the (pardon the pun) execution.

"A lot of Buffy's people are murderers, actually." —Andrew, First Date.   Hey, Joss, shining a lantern on the shit doesn't make it smell any better.  Just so you know.

I love Selfless, possibly it's only minus point is a lack of

Spoiler

Dawn who only has one scene although it is rather nice. 

And who didn't love Halfyrek?

[Halting Hex]

4 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

And who didn't love Halfrek?

Well, I'm fairly sure I just identified myself as such.  :)

Honestly though, "Hallie's" demise was a clear case of "Wish granted!" for me.  ("Wish granted"?  I prefer Anyanka's simpler and more potent "Done!" But JMO.)

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎13‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 8:04 PM, Halting Hex said:

Well, I'm fairly sure I just identified myself as such.  :)

Honestly though, "Hallie's" demise was a clear case of "Wish granted!" for me.  ("Wish granted"?  I prefer Anyanka's simpler and more potent "Done!" But JMO.)

Oh but it's a kick in the head, much like Gotham one of the reasons Buffy is so successful is that it makes you care about the villains. 

[SosaLola]

IMO Selfless was the best thing out of S7! I also liked Anya's hair in it.

[Joe Hellandback]

7 hours ago, SosaLola said:

IMO Selfless was the best thing out of S7! I also liked Anya's hair in it.

Not the best compared to Him, LMPTM and Chosen in my opinion but yes, it's a corker, love it to bits. Anya's hair is lovely although they always seem to be changing it so people don't confuse it her with Buffy. 

[lembergwatcher]

I could be more tolerant of Anya Christina Emmanuella Jenkins if it wasn't for Joss', Marti's, Jane's and God knows whose else belief that the Scoobies desperately needed a remorseless killer/tormentor with twisted sense of humor among their ranks. Can't believe none of the writers have ever noticed Anya to be probably the biggest walking and talking logical inconsistency in the whole Buffyverse (I interact with humans for more than a thousand years as a vengeance demon, yet I suddenly know nothing 'bout humanity the minute I approach Xander before the prom). 

I loathed the way writers, directors and Emma Caulfield tried to portray the bitch who made Angelus look like a boy scout as some merely cute and funny sex-crazed "working gal".
I loathed the fact that her introduction to the show eventually almost destroyed one of my favorite characters solely to make Spuffy look less gross.

I loathed the fact that her 'relationship' with Xander was one of the longest in the series and the way Joss & Co wanted me to believe the x-demon was the best choice for Xander ever. That there was no other woman in the whole state of California who could find Xander attractive. The thing I loathed even more was the assumption that the carpenter did truly love someone who found murder and torture things to be proud of. Whenever I watch Willow/Tara sugary scenes I think they need Diabetics discretion advised sticker somewhere on the screen, watchin' Xander/Anya makes me wanna scream "I do not buy it!"

(I've got a theory: Xander was sort of stoned for a time span between The Harsh Light of Day and Hell's Bells and just before he was about to make the worst mistake of his life he woke up from a drug-induced coma. "What the fuck am I doin' here? Who are those people? Why am I wearin' this?" e.t.c.).

But above all I was quite mad at Joss & Co for not allowing Xander to move on after everything was over and making him look especially ridiculous for tryin' to revive the relationship that was as dead as a rotten corpse. At the same time the Summers house was full of much younger (and prettier) girls with non-murderous past. Their sex scene in Touched was bloody disgusting.

One of a few times I actually liked Anya was a scene in Empty Places when she stood against Buffy "Let's Go Back to Vineyard" Summers.

IMO Xander/Willow sole footsie scene was 100 times more romantic and sexy then 2,5 seasons of Xander and Anya. Anya's sex with Spike, Tara or even Giles (if we assume that Willow's spell in Tabula Rasa was never broken) would be much more preferable thing than the so-called "canon" relationship.
 

[lembergwatcher]

Btw, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've got a theory that the people behind the show: 1) introduced Anya's character; 2) invented her actual backstory. Otherwise I don't get why are there no traits of her Scandinavian heritage whatsoever. At least until S.07. For three consecutive seasons there's a steady impression she's some kinda girl from southeastern Indiana who was "raised by both a mother and a father". It's quite strange that Spike could at least maintain his English accent. Not a case considering Anya or Angel I guess...   

[illdoc]

5 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

It's quite strange that Spike could at least maintain his English accent. Not a case considering Anya or Angel I guess...   

Anya probably adapted an "non-Scandinavian" accent in order to "woo" clients. As part of her "vengeance demon" gifts, she probably understood/spoke a wide variety of languages (hard to get a Spanish girl to make a wish if you don't understand what she is saying). After all, she is a vengeance demon for "women" not for "women who speak English". Since she had no accent as part of her "disguise" to get Cordy to make a wish, she was probably stuck with the non-accent, as well as the human form, when she became a non-demon. As for Angel, given the way the Irish were looked upon in the early 20th-century (which is when Angel arrived here), he probably made a deliberate attempt to lose his accent, in order to fit in better. Spike, who has spent most of his vampire life in England/Europe, would retain his accent, having no motivation to lose it. 

[Halting Hex]

Yes, I think Anya's powers allow her to adapt to the local dialect just as much as the local language.  We see no indication that she knew how to speak Russian before appearing  there during the 1905 Revolution, but her Russian is apparently as flawless as her English would be in Sunnydale.

Now, do we think her location-appropriate fashion sense was also a function of her demonhood?  Possible, I suppose.

[lembergwatcher]

Ok, demonhood is an important factor, I agree. Still some smallest traits of good old Sweden here and there could only benefit the character IMO :-) And everything mentioned doesn't refute the possibility for whole Scandinavia thing to be invented at the last moment.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎20‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 12:46 AM, lembergwatcher said:

I could be more tolerant of Anya Christina Emmanuella Jenkins if it wasn't for Joss', Marti's, Jane's and God knows whose else belief that the Scoobies desperately needed a remorseless killer/tormentor with twisted sense of humor among their ranks. Can't believe none of the writers have ever noticed Anya to be probably the biggest walking and talking logical inconsistency in the whole Buffyverse (I interact with humans for more than a thousand years as a vengeance demon, yet I suddenly know nothing 'bout humanity the minute I approach Xander before the prom). 

I loathed the way writers, directors and Emma Caulfield tried to portray the bitch who made Angelus look like a boy scout as some merely cute and funny sex-crazed "working gal".
I loathed the fact that her introduction to the show eventually almost destroyed one of my favorite characters solely to make Spuffy look less gross.

I loathed the fact that her 'relationship' with Xander was one of the longest in the series and the way Joss & Co wanted me to believe the x-demon was the best choice for Xander ever. That there was no other woman in the whole state of California who could find Xander attractive. The thing I loathed even more was the assumption that the carpenter did truly love someone who found murder and torture things to be proud of. Whenever I watch Willow/Tara sugary scenes I think they need Diabetics discretion advised sticker somewhere on the screen, watchin' Xander/Anya makes me wanna scream "I do not buy it!"

(I've got a theory: Xander was sort of stoned for a time span between The Harsh Light of Day and Hell's Bells and just before he was about to make the worst mistake of his life he woke up from a drug-induced coma. "What the fuck am I doin' here? Who are those people? Why am I wearin' this?" e.t.c.).

But above all I was quite mad at Joss & Co for not allowing Xander to move on after everything was over and making him look especially ridiculous for tryin' to revive the relationship that was as dead as a rotten corpse. At the same time the Summers house was full of much younger (and prettier) girls with non-murderous past. Their sex scene in Touched was bloody disgusting.

One of a few times I actually liked Anya was a scene in Empty Places when she stood against Buffy "Let's Go Back to Vineyard" Summers.

IMO Xander/Willow sole footsie scene was 100 times more romantic and sexy then 2,5 seasons of Xander and Anya. Anya's sex with Spike, Tara or even Giles (if we assume that Willow's spell in Tabula Rasa was never broken) would be much more preferable thing than the so-called "canon" relationship.
 

Anyanka the demon was evil, Anya was just a lost soul trying to find her place in the world, choosing the good guys and risking her life to protect people .

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Anyanka the demon was evil, Anya was just a lost soul trying to find her place in the world

Anyanka and Anya were the same person (supposed to be at least). Anya neither denied nor regretted about her demonic past. In fact, she was quite proud of her murderous "achievements". Searching for the place in the world wasn't Anya's choice, but a result of losing an ability to hurt people.

[Halting Hex]

On 8/19/2018 at 4:46 PM, lembergwatcher said:

Their sex scene in Touched was bloody disgusting.

What, you don't think Anya should be dragging a maimed and medicated Xander (who could barely walk the night before) onto a dirty kitchen floor just because she can hear the sex going on elsewhere and she wants some?  I grant you, Xander's made with the sexy times under questionable circumstances in the past (there's that visible head wound when he's smooching Willow in the burnt-out factory in Lovers Walk, and somehow I don't see Faith's motel room as 5-star accommodations, either), but she's always been concerned about his contracting diseases in the past, so you might think she'd at least wait until one of the bedrooms opens up.  Or drive him back to his place, which is presumably less-crowded, the backed-up toilet we saw in the teaser notwithstanding.

(How do they manage to get it on in the kitchen, of all places, with so many people in the house?  You'd think somebody might be hungry for a midnight snack, wouldn't you?)

[lembergwatcher]

24 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

I grant you, Xander's made with the sexy times under questionable circumstances in the past

Smooching Willow in the burnt-out factory in Lovers Walk is still more preferable (and more pleasant to watch) than sex with Anya on a kitchen floor. In fact I would have preferred Xander making love to Willow inside the cabin somewhere in the woods around Sunnydale while listening to The Doors' "The End", leaving Anya to boink Andrew on that kitchen floor.
 

 

35 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

(How do they manage to get it on in the kitchen, of all places, with so many people in the house?  You'd think somebody might be hungry for a midnight snack, wouldn't you?)

Considering that the whole season 7 is filled with a hell of a lot of unanswered questions, mysteries, irregularities, logical inconsistencies and idiotic plot twists, kitchen sex in the house full of people is not such a relevant thing. Btw, I never knew Summers' house was that big to accomodate so many baby-Slayers. What happened to the Crawford Street mansion?  

[Loandbehold]

2 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

leaving Anya to boink Andrew on that kitchen floor.

No, no, no, no, no. The rule is absolutely no mentions of Andrew and sex in the same paragraph, never mind the same sentence. The mental image cannot be unseen. 

Let Anya boink Giles. Completes the circle from Tabula Rasa. 

[Halting Hex]

On 8/28/2018 at 7:23 PM, Loandbehold said:

Let Anya boink Giles

I never knew you hated Giles.  (And "Ganya" 'shippers irritated me so much.  I mean, what a shitty thing that would be for him to do to Xander.)

[Loandbehold]

53 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

I never knew you hated Giles.  (And "Ganya" 'shippers irritated me so much.  I mean, what a shitty thing that would be for him to do to Xander.)

I love Giles. It just followed from Tabula Rasa. Plus, w/ the pending apocalypse, a one-time boink-fest w/ Anya doesn't sound too bad. Nothing about flowers, dating, marriage, or any other shipping activities. But, mostly I was trying to get the concept of Andrew and sex, in any combination, out of my head. If it makes you feel better, Giles can be sleeping and we can have Anya riding the laundry machine instead. 

[lembergwatcher]

It could have been one-night stand between two former coworkers. Besides, Anya's demise was at hand, so boinking Giles on the kitchen floor would not lead to any serious or long lasting relationship between the two former Magic Box owners.

[Halting Hex]

On 8/28/2018 at 7:23 PM, Loandbehold said:

No, no, no, no, no. The rule is absolutely no mentions of Andrew and sex in the same paragraph, never mind the same sentence. The mental image cannot be unseen. 

Let Anya boink Giles. Completes the circle from Tabula Rasa. 

How about we have Giles bang Andrew?  I know, Andrew's no Ethan, but a Bottom Boi is a Bottom Boi, after all.  And maybe Giles is nostalgic for more of the delights of Merry Olde than just the Jaffa Cakes.

And yes, it violates your "rule", but consider the benefits:

1)  Giles doesn't have to trespass on Xander's emotional territory.

2)  If anybody gets diseases from that dirty floor, it's Andrew.  No great loss.

3)  Anya ends up getting (figuratively) screwed by getting left out of the (literal) screwing.

Works for me, lol.

[Loandbehold]

4 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Works for me, lol.

I still can't get by my rule. I ... just ... can't. [/Shatner cadence]

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎30‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 4:39 AM, Loandbehold said:

I love Giles. It just followed from Tabula Rasa. Plus, w/ the pending apocalypse, a one-time boink-fest w/ Anya doesn't sound too bad. Nothing about flowers, dating, marriage, or any other shipping activities. But, mostly I was trying to get the concept of Andrew and sex, in any combination, out of my head. If it makes you feel better, Giles can be sleeping and we can have Anya riding the laundry machine instead. 

I always wondered did Anya like the idea of Xander more than the man himself, she always seems to be looking for a man to give her more status, Giles, Olaf, rather than for herself. 

[Pallas]

Thinking of the piece by Emma Caulfield that @secnarf posted in the Media topic. The fourth assault occurred during the final season's holiday hiatus, when Emma and a friend survived a drive-by machine-gun attack by gang members performing an initiation rite. Aired three months earlier: "Selfless," where the backstory of Anya's first human life frames the re-commissioned Anyanka's decision to stop lollygagging, and practice vengeance with a vengeance. She massacres a fraternity; Buffy impales her (to the score of "Mrs. Xander Harris"); we see her immediate recovery followed by remorse and self-sacrifice, met with a more enduring punishment: survivor's guilt and a third mortal life. 

Soon after that, Anya joined the bivouac at Buffy's house. For the remainder of the show, she mostly appeared as The First Wacky and lent a hand to other characters' stories. I wonder how it was for Emma to portray Anya's story and her death -- cleaved in half by a goon while protecting a fool -- in the first months after she survived her own public near-murder as a mortal woman, not yet 30.

[Halting Hex]

More than any other character, Anya is a prisoner of Scoob Central for most of S7, due to D'Hoffryn's assassins being after her, a plot that is never resolved.  We see her going out with Spike at the start of Get It Done and at the hospital for that scene I've never seen in End of Days, and that's it before the final battle, IIRC.  Heck, even her sex life is now confined to unlikely spots such as Spike's cot (Storyteller) and a dirty kitchen floor (Touched)

Perhaps she's not in Dirty Girls because, with Buffy leading most of the troops to the vineyard, Anya's taken advantage of the confusion to grab Buffy's Jeep and get the hell out of town.  And it's only news of Xander's injury that brings her home.  That's a bit sad, even I'll admit.  (Even if she's still very annoying, IMO.)

[Joe Hellandback]

11 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

More than any other character, Anya is a prisoner of Scoob Central for most of S7, due to D'Hoffryn's assassins being after her, a plot that is never resolved.  We see her going out with Spike at the start of Get It Done and at the hospital for that scene I've never seen in End of Days, and that's it before the final battle, IIRC.  Heck, even her sex life is now confined to unlikely spots such as Spike's cot (Storyteller) and a dirty kitchen floor (Touched)

Perhaps she's not in Dirty Girls because, with Buffy leading most of the troops to the vineyard, Anya's taken advantage of the confusion to grab Buffy's Jeep and get the hell out of town.  And it's only news of Xander's injury that brings her home.  That's a bit sad, even I'll admit.  (Even if she's still very annoying, IMO.)

I always figured that's why she stayed in Sunnydale and kept Anya's identity, she was hiding out from all the people she'd wronged and having the Slayer protect her helped. 

[lembergwatcher]

Having the millennium-long track record, that could make Angelus and Spike shiver, Anya the "ex-demon" was nevertheless found to be eligible for a place in the Scoobies' inner circle. 'Cause there wasn't a single woman on the West Coast eager to date Xander other than (former) mass murderer and tormentor from hell. That "working gal" made Inca Mummy Girl look like Mother Teresa. I think it would have been much better if the writers just let Xander stay single for the rest of the series (a sane, good-looking and self-respecting girl should have nothing to do with a guy like that, according to Joss' creative vision), while Anya could find her true happiness with someone else, more of her type.

[Halting Hex]

Wow, Clare Kramer looks really hot there.  It doesn't hurt that the light hides that (not-exactly-"godly") zit I kept noticing.

I was a little annoyed thinking of Anya "complimenting" Xander in Goodbye Iowa by calling him "boring".  But then I remembered it was Anya, and any compliment is a good day for her…

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎14‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 2:04 PM, lembergwatcher said:

Having the millennium-long track record, that could make Angelus and Spike shiver, Anya the "ex-demon" was nevertheless found to be eligible for a place in the Scoobies' inner circle. 'Cause there wasn't a single woman on the West Coast eager to date Xander other than (former) mass murderer and tormentor from hell. That "working gal" made Inca Mummy Girl look like Mother Teresa. I think it would have been much better if the writers just let Xander stay single for the rest of the series (a sane, good-looking and self-respecting girl should have nothing to do with a guy like that, according to Joss' creative vision), while Anya could find her true happiness with someone else, more of her type.

But that was Anyanka the demon, Anya is no more her than Angel is Angelus?

[lembergwatcher]

51 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Anya is no more her than Angel is Angelus?

Unlike Angelus, Angel feels remorse for the evil things he has done in the past. The only difference between Anya the "working gal" and Anyanka the demon is that Anya lacks her powers to continue atrocities. And I do not see any signs of actual remorse for her gruesome deeds (not everyone of those men was rat bastard and guilty as charged - let's admit it) on Anya's part.

Edited September 16, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Joe Hellandback]

1 minute ago, lembergwatcher said:

Unlike Angelus, Angel feels remorse for the evil things he has done in the past. The only difference between Anya the "working gal" and Anyanka the demon is that Anya lacks her powers to continue atrocities. And I do not see any signs of actual remorse for her gruesome deeds (not everyone of those men was rat bastard and guilty as charged - let's admit it) on Anya's part.

But that's her demon side which fades over time whilst for Angel/Angelus it's instant. We see that when she gets her powers back she's 'Miss Soft Serve'. 

[lembergwatcher]

Did she get her powers back in full? Did D'Hoffryn finally give Anya what she asked for in Doppelgangland? Yes, Anyanka 2.0 was a pale shadow of Anyanka the Vengeance Demon, but I suspect there were other (prosaic) reasons for that. And I doubt those frat boys she massacred in Selfless would agree over "Miss Soft Serve'...

[Jack Shaftoe]

9 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

And I do not see any signs of actual remorse for her gruesome deeds (not everyone of those men was rat bastard and guilty as charged - let's admit it) on Anya's part.

Yes, she not only considers her crimes funny stories and misses her days of murder but was utterly unaffected when she herself was caught in thew web of vengeance. In Older and Far Away she was locked in house and had a panic attack due to a wish granted by Halfrek. The result - Halfrek wasn't so much as dis-invited from the wedding! Then, at said wedding, a guy whose life Anya had ruined shows up and tries to return the favour. Buffy and Xander kill him. Is Anya shaken by that experience? Not in the slightest, all she could think of is... how to get back her powers and ruin Xander's life as soon as possible. And the writers expect me to believe that in S7 she somehow grew a conscience out of the blue? Sorry, can't do.

[Halting Hex]

Should Ronnie in Beneath You have been grateful that Anya "only" turned him into a Sluggoth demon, rather than a literal worm?  Oh, joy.

[Joe Hellandback]

18 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Did she get her powers back in full? Did D'Hoffryn finally give Anya what she asked for in Doppelgangland? Yes, Anyanka 2.0 was a pale shadow of Anyanka the Vengeance Demon, but I suspect there were other (prosaic) reasons for that. And I doubt those frat boys she massacred in Selfless would agree over "Miss Soft Serve'...

And she sacrificed her immortality to bring them back. 

12 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Yes, she not only considers her crimes funny stories and misses her days of murder but was utterly unaffected when she herself was caught in thew web of vengeance. In Older and Far Away she was locked in house and had a panic attack due to a wish granted by Halfrek. The result - Halfrek wasn't so much as dis-invited from the wedding! Then, at said wedding, a guy whose life Anya had ruined shows up and tries to return the favour. Buffy and Xander kill him. Is Anya shaken by that experience? Not in the slightest, all she could think of is... how to get back her powers and ruin Xander's life as soon as possible. And the writers expect me to believe that in S7 she somehow grew a conscience out of the blue? Sorry, can't do.

Not out of the blue, it was a gradual process, much like Spike eventually becomes more human from living among the Scoobs. 

10 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Should Ronnie in Beneath You have been grateful that Anya "only" turned him into a Sluggoth demon, rather than a literal worm?  Oh, joy.

And again, she does turn him back. 

[lembergwatcher]

10 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

And she sacrificed her immortality to bring them back.

But only after Buffy, Willow and Xander intervened.

[Halting Hex]

Exactly.  What about all the messes she made over the summer that we didn't see her clean up?  (She didn't fly down to Brasil for the soccer, after all.)

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

Not out of the blue, it was a gradual process, much like Spike eventually becomes more human from living among the Scoobs. 

Yes, it made just about as much sense as Spike's transformation, that is to say not at all. And I still don't see how it was gradual when she didn't show even a glimmer of remorse prior to season 7 and then promptly quickly returned to her comic relief persona once her joke of a story arc was completed in Selfless. Anya wasn't shaken when her supposed friends of even Xander was the target or collateral damage of some wish, how am I supposed to believe that she would start feeling remorse for some strangers? She had been killing people and very much enjoying it for more than a thousand years at that point, after all.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Jack Shaftoe

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎17‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 9:16 AM, lembergwatcher said:

But only after Buffy, Willow and Xander intervened.

Much like Spike becomes more human from hanging with the Scoobs. 

On ‎17‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 9:18 AM, Halting Hex said:

Exactly.  What about all the messes she made over the summer that we didn't see her clean up?  (She didn't fly down to Brasil for the soccer, after all.)

Or made the now French guy less smelly?

22 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Yes, it made just about as much sense as Spike's transformation, that is to say not at all. And I still don't see how it was gradual when she didn't show even a glimmer of remorse prior to season 7 and then promptly quickly returned to her comic relief persona once her joke of a story arc was completed in Selfless. Anya wasn't shaken when her supposed friends of even Xander was the target or collateral damage of some wish, how am I supposed to believe that she would start feeling remorse for some strangers? She had been killing people and very much enjoying it for more than a thousand years at that point, after all.

She did show remorse, a certain ep in s6 points that out, remember, Anya is not Anyanka.

[lembergwatcher]

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Anya is not Anyanka

It's partly true. And all the credit goes to Giles and D'Hoffryn and not the "working gal" anyway.

[lembergwatcher]

Though my (negative) perception of Anya changed from season to season (from mild annoyance to outright hate), the fourth season's episodes are still of two kinds to me: a) the ones that make me want to punch her in the face whenever she starts talking about her sex life; b) the ones that make me want to punch her in the face everytime she opens her mouth.  

[Halting Hex]

Was looking for something else and instead I found…this:

Yes, this would be why I don't like you, OneJoke*!  You're not only boring and amoral, you're annoying as anything.  I mean, if she were any more whiny, she'd be Spike, ffs.

And, as I mentioned, all her character traits are driven into the ground, time and time and time again.  Yawnerific.  I mean, can you even guess the episode this .gif is from?  I don't know if I could have hit it in ten guesses, honestly.  

Spoiler

It's First Date.  I think she's bitching about Xander being on a date with Ashanti-demon.  Not that she goes to rescue him when he's in danger or anything like that…

*-Yes, technically, there's more than just One Joke for Anya.  In fact, it changes every season:

S4-"I like sex!!"

S5-"I like money!!"

Before S6, I figured it made sense for her to combine her two interests and become a prostitute.  But in fact we got:

S6-"I want[ed] my perfect wedding, Xander!!!  You bastard!!"

S7-"Goddamnit, why can't I get laid?"

But she remains so remorselessly shallow (and remorseless in general) that it still feels like the same, again and again.  I've had less unpleasant dental procedures.  Sigh.

[lembergwatcher]

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

I figured it made sense for her to combine her two interests and become a prostitute.

Actually, she tried to get her dream job in S.07E.11 Showtime while begging Torg to open the gate to Beljoxa’s Eye dimension.

[lembergwatcher]

OTOH, Anya is much less annoying than Buffy in season 7.