The Gospel: Preacher Comicbook Talk

[Meredith Quill]

Discuss Here!

[Lantern7]

I stopped reading Preacher when I couldn't find "Dixie Fried" in my local library system. I really wouldn't recommend the book to everybody, especially since you'd be reading Garth Ennis without normal comic restraints. Also, there's a crap-ton of theological stuff that will piss off certain people.

[littlewonder]

This is, by a landslide, my favourite comic series.  The boy and I dressed up as Jesse and Preacher for our first Halloween together and quoted it in our wedding vows!

[Lantern7]

I'm getting the books from the library again. I'm not put off by the deviation from the source material. I'm wondering if John Wayne will be dropping by. Or the Saint of Killers. Or any of the action in Heaven.

[BruceAE]

... Well, TV Tulip is much more of a comic book character than TV Tulip.  And by sticking with Annville for a longer period they are losing much of the momentum and 'Terminator' vibe the comics have.

 

I'll still be sticking around.  Curious to see how it compares.

[Danny Franks]

I hope the end of the episode is a bait and switch, because it looks like they're setting Fiore and DeBlanc up to be far more formidable characters than the comic book versions. Perhaps even replacing the Saint of Killers, which would be a huge disappointment.

This introduction of Tulip didn't have anything like the same effect as the comic book either. In the comic, she came off as immediately sympathetic, desperate and out of her depth. In the show, she came off as far too cocky to be likeable. They've got an uphill battle to make her an enjoyable character, in my view. Though, I guess if they'd introduced her like the comic did, with her screwing up the hit and then being mean to Cassidy, a section of the audience would immediately dislike her forever, as tends to happen with women on screen.

[Starving Writer]

Not sure how beneficial this thread will be, as the show seems to be going in a completely different direction than the books did.  This isn't The Walking Dead, where the plot is mostly the same, just with some characters swapped around.  

As it stands right now, the show is basically expanding on Jesse Custer's five years in Anneville (which the books completely skipped over) while merging it with the "Meatman" aspect of the "Salvation" storyline.  Which makes sense, because the Salvation storyline would've never went over well as a TV adaptation.  For starters, Tulip and Cassidy are completely absent from that story, and you can't do that on a TV show.  You can't just tell two main characters "ok, we don't need you this season, go and find something else to do, and we'll see you next year."

So I guess we'll be getting more into the idea of Jesse Custer as an actual preacher, which we only got in one single issue in the comics, and how he deals with his crisis of faith and being lured into the adventurous and freedom that Tulip and Cassidy both offers.  They also seem to be beefing up the roles of Fiore and DeBlanc, and having them sort of assume the role that the Featherstone and Hoover had in the books.  

While the comics immediately hit the ground running, introducing the Heaven / Hell schism, the origin of Gensis, and the Saint of Killers in the first issue, I think the show is going for a more gradual  approach.  We'll start with Jesse Custer and Anneville, then gradually open up his world.  I expect to see Grandma / Jody / T.C. and that whole back story in the second season (and possibly Cassidy and Tulip's back stories as well), then we'll get to the Grail and the conspiracy to bring around Armageddon in the third season, and then it'll ramp up from there on.  

[atomationage]

I've been reading whatever ones I could get, but I just read Gone to Texas, which I guess is the beginning.   In the TV series, I thought they started Tulip off well enough to make sense, but Cassidy came  from a completely different place.   I don't care much about him.   The books are very readable, and once I start one, I find it hard to put down.   I think I have them all now.   I've read out of order, but there are a lot of flashbacks.  I hope they skip most of the Grail story. 

Edited June 1, 2016 by atomationage

[atomationage]

I'm watching the previews of the next episode, and I don't think they're following the books at all.  I'm not sure since I haven't read them all yet, but the church is Annville is still there and he's baptizing people,  including Arseface and Tulip.

 

[Rai]

This is one of my favorite comics of all time, so man, am I finding it difficult to do the right thing and try to view the TV show on its own merits.

What I will say though is that I don't mind the more upbeat personality of TV's Tulip, but I do mind that so far, it's like she's chasing after Jesse. I found it oddly refreshing to have him be steadfastly devoted to her in his heart throughout the whole series (even when he runs away), whereas she is angry at him and pushes him away and is always the one ready to walk out emotionally if needs be to protect herself. I really liked that romantic dynamic. It felt realistic. And was heightened by all their great sex. The TV versions don't have an ounce of sexual wow between them so far. Can you really imagine TV Jesse telling Tulip he'll love her until the end of the world so far? Right now, it's more like, "I'll love you until the end of the football game -- oh shoot, rained out."

[Danny Franks]

Yeah, the fact that she knows where he is, and what he's been doing, undermines that endless devotion quite a lot. She's apparently fine with him staying in Annville and not being with her, and he's apparently not so in love with her that he finds it impossible to resist her. In the first episode, she felt more like the 'girl from the past who I need to move on from' trope than someone who is going to be central to his life moving forward.

[Rai]

Agreed. His church associate felt like a viable love interest instead. Which is fine. It's not like he didn't get tempted. But this might be another argument for why real-life couples shouldn't be in things together because somehow their chemistry doesn't manifest on screen.

[PatternRec]

I'm assuming spoilers are ok in this thread? If not, don't read below.

 

In spite of the re-arranging of storylines, my guess is that the first season or first story arc will probably end with the same thing that gives Jesse back his purpose in the comic: he uses the voice on Fiore and DeBlanc and finds out that God abandoned his post. They've done a fine job setting up that Jesse is not good at being the town's Preacher and that he feels like he's not doing enough to help these people. At the end of s01e02 they show him realizing what the voice is and what it can do. Once he knows the truth about the universe, and the extent of his power, the show very easily goes in the direction of the comic. 

[Starving Writer]

That's my guess as well. Jesse will probably leave Annville at the end of S1 (while taking care of the Salvation storyline). If there's a S2, I expect that'll probably deal with his initial quest to find God and we'll get the New York serial killer story and the San Francisco sex party story, and be introduced to the Grail. I expect we'll meet Grandma and finish everybody's back stories in S3 then we'll jump heavily into the Grail and the "Proud American" story after that. 

All I know is that we must get Starr at some point. MUST!

[revbfc]

So was the guy in white at the snuff festival supposed to be Starr?  I was hoping for a better introduction for him than that.

[PatternRec]

On 6/8/2016 at 2:16 AM, Starving Writer said:

 ...and we'll get the New York serial killer story and the San Francisco sex party story, and be introduced to the Grail...

I can't see them going to NYC or San Fran though. Too expensive. 

7 hours ago, revbfc said:

So was the guy in white at the snuff festival supposed to be Starr?  I was hoping for a better introduction for him than that.

It was. I thought it was a good tease, just like the Saint of Killers in last episode. Also, it mirrors what Ennis did at the end of the first storyline in the comics. he teased something like three storylines that took another year and a half to actually complete. 

 

edit: here's the page I was thinking of: 

Edited June 13, 2016 by PatternRec

[Rai]

Hahah, caan you imagine if they did the sexual investigators on the show? Mind boggles.

[Lantern7]

I reread the first TPB, which covers the first twelve issues. We were never going to get John Wayne on the show even if there were no legal ramifications, right? On the bright side, I think Eugene has made the transition well, even if he doesn't look as fucked up as in comics.

[PatternRec]

I hated the John Wayne stuff in the book, so I'm glad they dropped it for now. I like that Cass mentioned both NY and San Fran. Maybe there's hope for the road trip yet...

[Rai]

What? John Wayne is how he connects to his father. It's a very moving part of the book, IMO.

[PatternRec]

10 hours ago, Rai said:

What? John Wayne is how he connects to his father. It's a very moving part of the book, IMO.

I understand that, but since I never had a history or connection with Wayne it was an aspect of that story I never connected with on a gut level like some of the other stuff. 

[Rai]

I never really got into John Wayne either, but since the book makes it so clear what the connection is, I had no trouble rolling with it. When they have their last conversation, it's one of the best heartbreaking moments.

Ah, well, different tastes, etc. I certainly don't think it would've worked in this adaptation.

[Lantern7]

I have to share . . . next week, Image is reprinting Adventures In The Rifle Brigade, collecting the two miniseries Garth Ennis did for Vertigo. Ennis is renown for his WWII-era stories, but he really goes off the rails here. And it is awesome to behold.

[Lantern7]

Read Book Two from the library. I don't think the show will be touching those locales. For one, I don't think John Custer would have met John Wayne in Vietnam. For another, the over-the-top orgy scene wouldn't run on Cinemax. And Allfather would have to be all-CGI. I am amused about the prospect of Herr Starr making the jump to AMC. He's the perfect mix of menacing and buttmonkey.

Bad news . . . library doesn't have Book Three. They do have Four and Five, though.

[Lantern7]

Sad news . . . co-creator Steve Dillon passed away.

[PatternRec]

On 10/22/2016 at 9:53 AM, Lantern7 said:

Sad news . . . co-creator Steve Dillon passed away.

:(

[PatternRec]

Interesting that for the show they decided to do away with the Saint of Killers never missing a shot. Gotta say I think it was a good choice - allows them to ramp up the tension with those bullets from hell just hitting tarmac and such. 

[johntfs]

7 hours ago, PatternRec said:

Interesting that for the show they decided to do away with the Saint of Killers never missing a shot. Gotta say I think it was a good choice - allows them to ramp up the tension with those bullets from hell just hitting tarmac and such. 

He still tends to hit what he aims at.  I wonder if he can kill Cassidy in the show.  I remember he shot Cassidy in the comic and it didn't kill him.

[PatternRec]

1 minute ago, johntfs said:

He still tends to hit what he aims at.  I wonder if he can kill Cassidy in the show.  I remember he shot Cassidy in the comic and it didn't kill him.

The sound effects on his guns in the show are amazing. 

I wonder if they're going to do the bit where Cassidy gets tortured by the guy shooting pieces off of him.  

[PatternRec]

See what Arseface has been up to in a preview for the next episode.

 

[johntfs]

Ho Lee Shit.  Is Arseface going to end up as Hitler's prison bitch?

[Lantern7]

I'm okay with Eugene not looking that much like canon Arseface. For one, Arseface was pretty fucked up. For another, Eugene's mouth looks like an arse. I'm not sure if you can stick a shotgun in your mouth and wind up with that. Then again, if you stick a shotgun in your mouth and fire, you're probably not gonna live to be called "Arseface," except by a coroner.

[Lantern7]

Bumping up because the Messiah is being promoted for next week's episode, and I am a little giddy. I mean, I get that the series isn't dependent on the comic . . . but after Herr Starr's little mishap, I think we might get a character more fucked up than Eugene.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I hope the Allfather is part of the show. 

[Lantern7]

I vaguely remember Starr pummeling Hoover senseless after the buggering. I don't think Starr threatened him with a tarp, but it was a nice touch.

In another place, I read that Allfather would look normal . . .  or at least not comically obese. That probably means Messiah-as-imbred might be off the board as well.

[Lantern7]

I only got 2-3 volumes into Preacher. From what I remember, the deal with Jesus was that his followers drugged him to fake his death, he wound up having a few kids, and he died in a freak falafel cart accident. Was there any more to the story of the "preservation" of the bloodline?

ETA: Here is a shot the original messiah from the comics. I'm okay with the inbred adult on AMC, because we need a few seconds of Jesse going, "Holy moley, this is real!!" And fucking with people's expectations is a large part of Preacher.

[johntfs]

6 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I only got 2-3 volumes into Preacher. From what I remember, the deal with Jesus was that his followers drugged him to fake his death, he wound up having a few kids, and he died in a freak falafel cart accident. Was there any more to the story of the "preservation" of the bloodline?

Not especially, though it's touched on in Starr's stand-alone graphic novel where we meet Humperdido's inbred, shit-throwing parents.  After Volume Three Starr is effectively in charge of The Grail, the Messiah has been squished and Starr proceeds to run The Grail into the ground in increasingly unhinged attempts to find and kill Jesse and company (while losing more and more body parts along the way).

[PatternRec]

On 8/27/2017 at 6:33 PM, johntfs said:

(while losing more and more body parts along the way).

*and* getting a pseudo pee-hole carved into his head :D 

[Lantern7]

Looks like the show found a way to return Jesse to the last place he ever wanted to go. Question: who resurrects Tulip? God (in the comics) or the lady from the first scene?

[PatternRec]

17 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Looks like the show found a way to return Jesse to the last place he ever wanted to go. Question: who resurrects Tulip? God (in the comics) or the lady from the first scene?

Lady from the first scene I guess. That was his Grandmother. Interesting they turned the L'Angelles into a bayou voodoo family instead of a devout one. Curious to see if it works.

[Lantern7]

@PatternRec: oh, I thought that woman was a different character from the grandmother.

[PatternRec]

7 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

@PatternRec: oh, I thought that woman was a different character from the grandmother.

I'd have to watch again to be sure. I think he called her "gram" or something in the scene. In both cases they showed her (last time was the swamp flashback) they haven't shown her face so I assume they're waiting to cast the actress. Same with Jody and TC. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

@WalkerTalker, here's the comic thread. I'd like to see more chatter on here. I've read the series a few times, so feel free to ask me any questions. 

[WalkerTalker]

6 minutes ago, Superclam said:

@WalkerTalker, here's the comic thread. I'd like to see more chatter on here. I've read the series a few times, so feel free to ask me any questions. 

Thanks

I can pull it up under your notification, but where do I find it on my own? I couldn't find it under The Gospel, or Gospel. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

That's strange; I see it near the top of my list because of these comments. Before that, it was mid-way down the page since no one has posted here in almost a year. 

I'm on a laptop, not a phone if that matters. 

[Lantern7]

Since we've been introduced to Allfather and Humperdoo, I might as well post this parody of Hostess ads from Wizard. I couldn't find a "cleaner" version.

[Lantern7]

From CBR: How could Cassidy survive getting shot by the Saint?

[Lantern7]

I couldn't find the panels, so here's an account on how Allfather died in the comic, from TVTropes:

Quote

 

Herr Starr has just dumped Allfather D'Aronique out of a helicopter. Standing underneath is Marseille, Starr's adjunct, who has kidnapped the retarded descendant of Jesus as a bargaining chip to escape. As the shadow of the colossally fat D'Aronique looms closer, the "Messiah: gives one last "Humperdido!" before turning to tell Marseille: "Today thou will be with me in paradise". Marseille, right before they're both squashed, merely deadpans, "great".

 

As much as I love the idea of Allfather splattering all over two idjits, having him explode works as well. And the resulting imagery is way more gruesome than what Steve Dillon gave us.

 

[Lantern7]

From the episode 408 thread:

2 hours ago, rmontro said:

Considering the way "God" is portrayed on this show (and I assume, the comics), I wonder about the philosophies, psychology, and background of the people who originally came up with all this stuff.  Seems like somebody had some issues.

I don't think Garth Ennis was daring a divine power to lightning bolt his keister when he was writing Preacher. Ennis is best known for "taking the piss" on stuff, and I'm guessing religion was one of those (superheroes being another, as seen on The Boys). He is an excellent writer, and he's penned great stuff that doesn't have the shock value of his better-known works. Check out the Battlefields comics he wrote. There is some blood and guts, to be sure (the stories are set in the thick of WWII), but I think his writing shines through.

I've been reading Preacher via Comixology. I understand that a lot of the stuff that was adapted for TV had to be crammed in that. But I kinda wanted Herr Starr's ordeal with the cannibals in full. Not only does he lose a leg, he has to wipe the dimmest cannibal's ass in order to get a gun. He kills all three, only they land on top of him. And there are nine panels of him hoping through the desert, falling down and yelling "FUCK!" It's beautiful in its own way.

[rmontro]

3 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I've been reading Preacher via Comixology. 

I wouldn't mind checking out Comixology at some point, along with Preacher, of course.  But I had a Marvel Unlimited subscription for awhile, and I really don't enjoy reading comic books in digital format that much.  I find it somewhat annoying.