S03.E09: Idyllwild

[wagthedog]

I think part of it involves the biological fact that the consequences of sexuality always fall harder on the female. Males can go merrily on their way a whole lot easier.

In my mind there's a big difference between consequences and guilt/shame. Yes, there can be more consequences for females than males when sex is involved, but that doesn't mean girls should have to feel bad/shamed/guilty about having sex (even if the condom breaks).

 

Both Brandon and Jesus were portrayed as having healthy, normal sex. No shame, no guilt. Neither Callie nor Mariana got the same story treatment. To me, it's very stereotypical and an unhealthy way to portray girls who have sex. Plenty of girls have sex, enjoy it, don't get pregnant and it's fine.

 

but I kinda wish there were some teens on tv who decided for themselves that they just aren't ready to have sex because it actually is a big deal.  In my early experiences, the relationship changes once you have sex...suddenly the focus is on having sex more than getting to know each other emotionally and intellectually.

I'd be good with this too. Really, anything that isn't about sex = guilt/shame/bad for girls would be fine with me. But I don't think I would necessarily equate abstinence with self awareness or make a general argument that sex is a big deal. For some people, it is a big deal. For some people, it's just recreational. Either way is fine, as long as you choose what's right for you.

[truthaboutluv]

Both Brandon and Jesus were portrayed as having healthy, normal sex. No shame, no guilt. Neither Callie nor Mariana got the same story treatment. To me, it's very stereotypical and an unhealthy way to portray girls who have sex. Plenty of girls have sex, enjoy it, don't get pregnant and it's fine.

 

 

While Brandon's first time presumably was fine as we didn't see it because he was already sexually active when the series started, he was later the victim of sexual assault. And the show had him had the unfortunately too common reaction of feeling shame, not because he was a victim but because he was a guy and he was assaulted by a woman. Because unfortunately, society helps perpetuate the myth that women are "weaker" than men and so for a man to be a victim of a woman is almost shameful.

 

So my point is I don't think it's necessarily true that only the female characters have had sex be portrayed in an unhealthy way. Because it could have been too easy for the show to have had Callie (I guess you can argue Callie did go through that very thing with Liam, who did groom her so she could trust and be comfortable with him before he raped her) or Mariana be the one raped by an older guy who groomed them in the way Dani did Brandon. But they went for the not as talked about and as acknowledged reality of an older woman doing it to an underage boy. 

 

And I really don't agree that Jesus' first time was portrayed as no big deal either. He went into panic mode when he realized he didn't use protection, there was a lot of guilt attached to it on his part because of how upset his girlfriend was and how scared she was and I may be remembering wrong but I could swear he and the girlfriend decided to put a pause on the sexual part of the relationship after the scare. And not to mention Stef finding out, her having to make a tough decision of overstepping her bounds by buying another parents' minor kid the morning after pill, etc. I really can't say Jesus' first time was portrayed in a positive, no big deal light.

Edited August 14, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[wagthedog]

He went into panic mode when he realized he didn't use protection, there was a lot of guilt attached to it on his part because of how upset his girlfriend was and how scared she was and I may be remembering wrong but I could swear he and the girlfriend decided to put a pause on the sexual part of the relationship after the scare.

All of that, from my perspective, is about the consequences of sex, not shame and guilt over sex itself. The sex was all good until the pregnancy scare. No shame about having sex. No guilt about who he had sex with. Nothing unhealthy about the sex itself.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying the show didn't do some good things with the Jesus sex storyline. I liked the dilemma Stef faced and it was good to tackle the teen pregnancy issue. They managed to show many facets. But that has nothing to do with shame/guilt about having sex. Girls face a double standard with regard to sex and it shows up all over the media.

 

So my point is I don't think it's necessarily true that only the female characters have had sex be portrayed in an unhealthy way.

The female characters have yet to have their sexual experiences portrayed in a healthy way.

[possibilities]

It's a surprising miss for this show, that they've somehow normalized all male kid sexuality and designated female kid sexuality as angsty and messed up. It's the kind of social message I'd have expected them to make a point of not reinforcing.

[Bringonthedrama]

 

It would be great to have some self-aware teens now and then rather than every teen being the kind of teen who just jumps into sex because they are 15.  Jeez, most would say 14 year olds are too young for sex; why is 15 magically so much more mature?  It isn't.

It definitely isn't, but Marianna was comparing herself to her brothers having lost their virginity in her conversation with Stef and Lena. Knowing her history with insecurity around peers, I can buy that she thinks her sibs and classmates have already 'been there,done that' and she doesn't want to feel like she's the only/one of the lone virgins in her peer group. She felt rejected by Matt, so she stupidly went for Wyatt while under the influence.

[ShadowFacts]

I think the show has given evidence that teen sex isn't all sunshine and rainbows, and that's a pretty accurate reflection of reality.  They did do a bit of a stereotype flip with what Matt said in this episode, about having wanted to wait til the right time and lose his virginity together with Mariana.  Had he verbalized it earlier, Mariana wouldn't have done what she did and torpedoed the relationship.  People do things like that, misunderstandings occur, relationships get derailed.  I think there can be guilt about sex that has nothing to do with shame per se, but with regretting one's haste or motivations. 

[wagthedog]

They did do a bit of a stereotype flip with what Matt said in this episode, about having wanted to wait til the right time and lose his virginity together with Mariana.

IMO, there's two different things going on and it's a little difficult to parse it out. There's the cheating and I think everyone would agree it's understandable Matt was hurt by that. Then there's the lost virginity. Separate from the cheating, I don't think it's a great message to send that there's a problem with a girl who didn't save herself. If the roles were reversed and Matt wasn't a virgin (which, stereotypically, seemed to be the assumption) Mariana wasn't bothered by his lack of virginity. Matt wasn't going to be seen as less desirable or more disappointing because he'd had sex before.

 

People do things like that, misunderstandings occur, relationships get derailed.  I think there can be guilt about sex that has nothing to do with shame per se, but with regretting one's haste or motivations.

It's understandable Mariana would feel badly about the fact she cheated. Which is why I said it's unfortunate the show wrapped Mariana's virginity up in cheating because it made what was otherwise a perfectly fine, reasonable first time, something she felt ashamed about. And then Matt revels his own virginity which somehow suggests Mariana is now tainted because she's not a virgin. And there's the shame. Losing your virginity is not shameful. Yet in the media stereotypes are advanced that suggest boy loses virginity = healthy, normal, expected. Girl loses virginity = shameful, problematic. Who do these teen boys lose their virginity to if not teen girls? The Dani's of the world?

[smrou]

I was never a fan of Donna Martin on the old 90210, but I kinda wish there were some teens on tv who decided for themselves that they just aren't ready to have sex because it actually is a big deal.

I'm going to agree with this and extend it to wishing there were teens on TV who don't have sex not because they're not ready but because...they just don't. The opportunity doesn't present itself or whatever. The thing is, a lot of people have sex while they're in high school, but not everyone does and it's not some vanishingly small percentage of kids who don't. And for some of those people it's because they've made the personal decision to wait, but in a lot of cases it's simply that they don't date in high school. And I'd kind of like to see that more. I think this largely comes down to the fact that I get tired of storylines for teenagers revolving so heavily around romance and I'd prefer to see other things emphasized. Particularly on a show like this when there's so much other stuff to mine. Jude's relationship with Connor interests me more because it has been part of Jude figuring out his sexual identity than because of the romance (though I will admit to thinking they make an adorable couple). Callie has so much going on with her difficult past and her out-of-nowhere biodad and family and yet it's like every time we turn around she's got some other romantic entanglement. When Mariana first started interacting with Mat I really hoped she'd rebuff him (Mat has turned out to be a good guy, I think, but initially I thought he treated her in a condescending way) and keep her focus on the other things that interest her instead, but no of course they ended up as a couple. I just get so bored with it.

Edited August 14, 2015 by smrou

[LeGrandElephant]

I think the majority of my friends were not having sex in high school. Some were, but definitely less than half. And almost none of them had made any big decision about waiting for religious reasons or anything like that; they just didn't happen to meet someone they wanted to go that far with. Maybe my friends weren't that cool - most of us also didn't drink in high school, because again, the opportunities just didn't come up easily. There was a rich/popular crowd at my school that threw parties with booze and maybe they had sex there too, but my friends and I weren't at those parties - we were having movie nights instead. (And the one time I was invited to one of those popular parties near the end of high school, I didn't go, and from what I heard later, they ended up having to call 911 to save someone from alcohol poisoning and then running away from the cops, and I was pretty glad I hadn't gone. But probably most of them were 18 by that point at the tail end of high school.)

[PhysNerd]

A  lot of my female friends had sex in high school.  Every single one of them regretted it for various reasons (and no, nobody shamed them.  Their parents didn't know and their boyfriends surprisingly didn't blab about it to the rest of the school), so I'm not surprised by a tv show's portrayal of a girl's first time gone horribly wrong.  First times usually aren't magical fairy tales especially if the one taking the virginity is a teenage boy.  

 

In Mariana's case, I think she is feeling guilty about cheating on Matt, rather than the sex itself.  Sex was simply the method she used for cheating, but I think we are going overboard by saying she regrets having sex period.  Her feeling of guilt is completely normal seeing as how she did cheat on her loving boyfriend.  To argue that the show should have shown Mariana feeling perfectly fine about the way in which she lost her virginity is odd considering the less than ideal circumstances.  

 

Would Mariana have felt guilty about having sex if she had lost her virginity to Matt as she had originally planned?  I have no idea.  The fact is that a lot of teens have sex, but they aren't always with the right people. Although it isn't fair, any burdens associated with sex does fall on the female due to simple biology.  Females have a lot more to lose if sex goes wrong.  

[blackrose602]

In Mariana's case, I think she is feeling guilty about cheating on Matt, rather than the sex itself.  Sex was simply the method she used for cheating, but I think we are going overboard by saying she regrets having sex period.  Her feeling of guilt is completely normal seeing as how she did cheat on her loving boyfriend.  To argue that the show should have shown Mariana feeling perfectly fine about the way in which she lost her virginity is odd considering the less than ideal circumstances.  

 

Would Mariana have felt guilty about having sex if she had lost her virginity to Matt as she had originally planned?  I have no idea.

I agree with all of this, and I hate that Marianna's virginity is all tied up in the cheating story. Not only will we never know how she would have felt about losing her virginity to Matt, but what if it had been Wyatt but they were both single? Callie's ex might not have been the smartest choice, but if Marianna and Matt had broken up before the tour, it would have been an interesting direction to explore. I know they touched on that angle, but it was definitely a secondary storyline to the cheating. Between the two, I fear Marianna is going to develop some long lasting issues around sex.

[ShadowFacts]

I don't want to sound too 'Church Lady', but besides her young age and the cheating aspect, and Wyatt being her foster sister's recent ex, there was drinking involved.  Even a small amount for a diminuitive kid like Mariana causes impairment, loosens inhibitions, and brings into question consent, which isn't even legally possible in California at her age. They inserted that intentionally.  But again, life is like that, and first times are seldom ideal. 

[jaytee1812]

I got really irrationally annoyed at Callie during this episode. When she was talking to Carmen, much as what Carmen did to Rita was wrong, Carmen had a point about not have any other options if she told the truth. I realised Callie has deliberately left herself in the system so she can be adopted by Stef and Lena, creating work for a vastly overstretched system, and at Girls United probably taking a bed from someone who needs it.

Why am I supposed to root for Callie to be adopted now. In season one she had no-one else, but since the introduction of Robert, why am I supposed to care that she ends up with Stef and Lena? If she doesn't Robert would take her in in a heartbeat. Callie is now someone with lots of options and a fairly settled family, getting adopted by Stef and Lena just seems to be something she should get because she wants it, no other reason.

[natyxg]

Brandon is so whiny. He was as bad as ever this season.

 

I keep getting distracted by how AJ looks about 24 but he's supposed to be 17 and the actor plays him so childlike.

 

I figured Ty was the hit and run driver since he was introduced.

 

Augh Brandon and Callie, augh, augh, augh.  Definitely the show's weakest element.