Has Humans Made George And Odi's Relationship Sweet Or Terrifying?

[Primetimer]

Or...both?

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[shrewd.buddha]

 

And he doesn't see it. He knows Vera is bad news, but he doesn't see what his "relationship" with Odi is doing to him -- how it's only giving him the illusion of love, but actually leaving him incredibly isolated. It's devastating, and I wonder how many other characters in this world are doing something similar: letting their human need for love and kinship get warped into a one-sided and spiritually enervating charade.

...Not much different than how some people isolate themselves with obsessive/exclusive relationships with their pets - to the detriment of improving, or even bothering to create, relationships with other people. Yes, pets are easier to get along with -- because you completely control their existence and it is a one-sided power structure. 

  These synths create the illusion of a relationship. The movie "Her" did a good job of portraying how that might go if the A.I. personality had the option to make their own choices. 

 

And yes, it is a bit sad, and more than a bit creepy, that many guys would rather go for the 100% guaranteed compliance of a virtual or robotic sex 'partner' than deal with possible rejection, or being forced to meet another person half way, or, god forbid , deal with the expectation of reciprocation. (But our screwed up culture of sex=bad and violence=good can take some blame for that.) A sex-bot would basically be a masturbation outlet and not an actual sex partner at all.. ...might as well put a wig on the vacuum cleaner and go for it.. 

 

I don't think HUMANS is getting all these issues completely right  Why would an android maid or massage therapist need to have sex organs? Or have features that make them exceptionally attractive? Or for that matter, hair? 

But the show does pose many interesting questions. 

 

Does anyone know if the original version is better/worse than the AMC version? 

Edited July 17, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[Cranberry]

I get the impression that it's less about George thinking of his synth as a human son and more about loving him because he's the only "person" who remembers George's beloved wife in perfect detail. In the first episode, George was exasperated with Odi and was walking away, leaving him in the closet, until Odi piped up with a story about Mary. Even as Odi was glitching later in the episode, George was trying so hard to get him to talk about Mary. Aside from Odi, only George remembers her, and his memory is going. 

[tatterd]

 

Because as much as being enslaved by a cruel robot nurse oppresses him, George also loses some aspect of his humanity when he directs his strongest emotions at a machine.

 

George might be directing his strongest emotions at a machine, but that's because he's missing his dead wife and trying to remember happier times, which is a very human thing to do.  I don't think he loves Odi like a son, I think he's attached to him because Odi is a connection to his past.  It's sweet because of the way it's played, but desperately sad rather than terrifying.

[notyrmomma]

 

...Not much different than how some people isolate themselves with obsessive/exclusive relationships with their pets - to the detriment of improving, or even bothering to create, relationships with other people. Yes, pets are easier to get along with -- because you completely control their existence and it is a one-sided power structure.

  These synths create the illusion of a relationship. The movie "Her" did a good job of portraying how that might go if the A.I. personality had the option to make their own choices.

 

This is a very interesting point.  I think it's the "illusion" that does the most damage to the human psyche.  And this TV show, which I believe shows a dystopian society, is "warning" us of where we will be if we stay on the same path.  Now here's my point, and I know this is going to be controversial, so stay with me for a minute (and try to keep an open mind, please), but the Catholic Church has been warning about this forever - and much of the Catholic doctrine had been written to keep "save" people from such mental anguish.

 

Setting aside the terrible things that the church has done recently and throughout history for the moment, and I am not the best Catholic in the world (OK, I'm a terrible Catholic), but this discussion reminds me of a theme in a lecture about Catholic doctrine and sex that I attended a few months ago.  The gist of the lecture was to explain why the church forbids things like per-marital sex and masturbation: it's basically to save people the mental anguish from un-reciprocated love.  It believes people will live better lives here on earth if they save their human emotions, love and sexual gratification as an example, for people that can reciprocate (which is probably why getting married in a Catholic church is such a bitch, they really want to make sure you are making the right choice, which still often still doesn't work out, but at least they tried!).  It's not a perfect theory, but I get where they are going with it, I fully understand and appreciate that YMMV. 

 

The thing about people who almost "over love" their pets gets me too.  My dog is sitting on my lap as I type this, but I know people who think their dogs are equivalent to children.  Nope, sorry....not even close.  I find that both annoying and depressing.  My sister is one of those people, and I have caught my mom saying she has four grandchildren, two boys and two boy dogs.  No mom, my kids are not on on the same level as the dogs, plus my sister should be very nice to my human boys as they may pick her nursing home some day. 

 

So the bottom line, while robots may help us humans stay lazy, they can't reciprocate love and I definitely don't want a robot to pick out what nursing home I will live in some day! LOL

 

*edited because my fingers are too fat for my Kindle Fire HD

Edited July 19, 2015 by notyrmomma

[Cranberry]

Spoiler for episode six:

 

Someone asks George, "Why care so much for something that cannot care for you?", and he replies: "The reflection. I look at Odi, I don't see a synthetic. I see all the years of care he gave us, all the memories he carried for me when I couldn't... he can't love me, but I see all those years of love looking back at me."

[tatterd]

Actually after watching episode 6 I think George might well be the person with the most aware and appropriate attitude towards synths.

[henripootel]

That line (under the spoiler tag) was kinda beautiful, and it's nice to see that somebody on this show has a realistic understanding of what synths are and aren't.  George has no objective reason to care about Odi but ... he cares.  That's enough.  We imbue synths with meaning so they have meaning, not unlike humans finding meaning in other humans.  Good answer.  Having respect for synths doesn't mean that they have passed some critical threshold, it means we have.  Interesting.

[SlovakPrincess]

George knows Odi isn't human -- and so in one episode he nearly smashed failing, shorting-out Odi for practical reasons (so Odi won't get recycled with all of George's personal information). He stops himself because Odi starts talking about George's dead wife.

But I think George also, despite himself, has developed affection for his daft, exasperating robot "son." He has no family or friends and health issues limit his ability to interact with the world. We don't know yet if something sinister happened concerning his work on synths that made George reclusive. Rather than making George isolated, I think his emotion toward Odi helped him cope with loneliness he already had because of his circumstances.

In a way it's good that George can't be 100% logical about Odi. The synths look and seem so human that I wouldn't trust anyone who didn't have some nagging doubt or hesitation or thought of "but what if they can feel SOMETHING?" about hurting or abusing or even being rude to the synths.

That's kind of where Matty is coming from -- she's disgusted with the synth situation on multiple levels. They're replacing humans AND encouraging humans to act like pigs toward human-like beings (a class of beings who are basically slaves).

Edited July 26, 2015 by SlovakPrincess

[Pagali]

A little bit off track, but not really... I'm amazed by the innocence Odi's actor is able to convey, especially considering he, Will Tudor, has recently been known for playing a gay male prostitute/brothel manager in Game of Thrones! Yes, it's the same guy. 

[EverCat]

Does anyone know if the original version is better/worse than the AMC version?

I have only seen the 1st season but, the original version (Äkta människor) is much better and worth checking out.

[NorthstarATL]

Think about how attached we humans are to photo albums and the like. Odi is an embodiment of another time (when George's wife was alive), and, IMO, reinforces George's humanity rather than diminishes it. We have memories and we cherish those and each other. I was surprised that the system that provided Vera did not simply upgrade Odi, perhaps implanting him/it with the same controling directives that might have been seen as acceptable restrictions when coming from such a seemingly "caring" source. We are easily manipulated, but mostly by each other. At least so far.

George at least did not go the Ensler (sp?) route and make a synth OF his deceased wife, but settled on keeping Odi around, which is a tad healthier?