One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[JayInChicago]

I have to admit that as much as I like the show and characters (yadda yadda disclaimer) the actual premise never really made a lot of sense to me. I just never bought that someone as independent as Lorelai and someone who openly disliked her parents as much as Lorelai would ever ever ever ask for money, even for something as selfless and wholesome as private school tuition for the granddaughter. As has been debated, I'm not sure they really showed WHY Rory would need to go to transfer to a private school halfway through high school; why they thought she *had* to go there to get into Harvard (turned Yale); or why it would take until Lorelai was quoted on a bill to realize she couldn't actually afford to send Rory there. Especially as a prep school attendee herself. Sure, she left school at some point (I guess?) and may or may not have graduated with her class. But it really stretches credibility to think she wouldn't realize she couldn't afford Chilton.

[txhorns79]

why they thought she *had* to go there to get into Harvard (turned Yale);

 

A school like Chilton would probably have relationships with the admissions people at the various Ivy League schools, along with a reputation that the admissions people at those schools would respect.  For example, the Admissions Director or whomever may not pay much heed to someone applying to Harvard from Stars Hollow High.  Rory might be a straight-A student there, but the admissions person would probably not have much idea of whether the school was a challenging environment, what kind of students it took in, etc.  However, if he got an application from someone from Chilton, he would already know it's a challenging school, and what kind of students it produced.  In the end, that might not matter, but it could give you a leg up in the admissions process.       

 

 

why it would take until Lorelai was quoted on a bill to realize she couldn't actually afford to send Rory there

 

If I remember right, Rory was let in unexpectedly after the school year already started.  The best I can guess is that Lorelai thought she would have more time to save before Rory could possibly get in. 

[readster]

Trust me, I know what is like to have only one child. I have only one child myself and the reasons behind it I do not want to go into here. I was just offering a "What if" thought on all of it. Nothing more. 

[dustylil]

Regarding Rory "having" to attend Chilton (or a comparable school) if she had any hope of getting into Harvard, wasn't Stars Hollow High  depicted as a mediocre school at best in the earliest episodes? Undoubtedly there are excellent secondary schools in small towns. However, Stars Hollow wasn't one of them. I don't think even Taylor offered any criticism for the decision to ditch the local high.

[txhorns79]

Regarding Rory "having" to attend Chilton (or a comparable school) if she had any hope of getting into Harvard, wasn't Stars Hollow High  depicted as a mediocre school at best in the earliest episodes? Undoubtedly there are excellent secondary schools in small towns. However, Stars Hollow wasn't one of them. I don't think even Taylor offered any criticism for the decision to ditch the local high.

 

I recall Jess suggesting the school wasn't good, but he failed out of it, so that isn't saying much.  I think in the episode Rory graduated, Headmaster Charleston referred to it with a condescending tone.  Otherwise, I don't recall anyone in the town suggesting it was a "mediocre" school.  What episode are you referring to where that was suggested?   

[readster]

I recall Jess suggesting the school wasn't good, but he failed out of it, so that isn't saying much.  I think in the episode Rory graduated, Headmaster Charleston referred to it with a condescending tone.  Otherwise, I don't recall anyone in the town suggesting it was a "mediocre" school.  What episode are you referring to where that was suggested?   

 

Taylor actually referred to the school as having problems with staff for several years even during his high school days. Remember during the infamous hockey game that revealed Dean was now dating Lindsey. It was revealed that the team had and other sports had not had any good spots in almost 25 years. Even Kirk said during the end that with the seniors graduating it would probably be another 25 years before they reached the milestone again. Also, the way they handled Jess's skipping of school and other things and not notifying Luke in any shape or form was ridiculous. I also want to go into Lane being both on the band and later a cheerleader. The school seem to have problems keeping spots filled or if anyone had any small sense of interest, BAM they were on the team. I also liked how Lane told Rory that the school thought she was stuck up even before she left for Chilton. Star Hollows High seem to not be the best school to go to. Not to mention the elementary school decided for the boyfriend of one of their teachers to be the lead role in a CHILDREN'S version of Fiddler on the Roof, because that isn't unethical at all. We all talked about the craziness of the town meetings and political staff of Stars Hollow, I really didn't want to know how the Education Board for the district that Stars Hollow fell in was like.

[txhorns79]

Taylor actually referred to the school as having problems with staff for several years even during his high school days. Remember during the infamous hockey game that revealed Dean was now dating Lindsey. It was revealed that the team had and other sports had not had any good spots in almost 25 years. Even Kirk said during the end that with the seniors graduating it would probably be another 25 years before they reached the milestone again. Also, the way they handled Jess's skipping of school and other things and not notifying Luke in any shape or form was ridiculous.

 

If I remember right, wasn't Jess given notice of what would happen?  Didn't the principal tell Jess something to the extent that he had been warned?  I just figured he was hiding whatever notices the school was sending home.  As to the sports teams, that doesn't really say much about academics at the school.  I'm not sure what you are referring to with regards to Taylor saying the school had staff problems.  Which episode was that?  

[amensisterfriend]

I really wish that Luke and Lorelai had never gotten back together after Wedding Bell Blues and had instead come to the exceedingly rare for TV yet IMO very accurate realization that they were far better off as friends. Luke would have been much happier and more compatible with someone like Gypsy...IMUO :) Lorelai would have been awesomely matched with someone similar to Digger (but with whom she had the physical/romantic/I just get you chemistry that she IMO had with Christopher!) I also would have been more than happy with both of them contentedly single. 

 

I really wish that Dean and Rory had never gotten back together after Star-Crossed Lovers and that Dean just disappeared from the canvas then. 

 

I wish Lorelai/Max had never gotten together in the first place. 

 

As long as I'm wishing, I'd have been more than fine with Paris/Doyle and Lane/Zach had never gotten together in the first place either! (Can you tell how much I love the way AS-P does romance?!) 

 

Aside from their S1 adorableness, I'm not as charmed by the Jackson/Sookie pairing as most fans. I've already vented my issues with post-S3 Sookie, and I (very unpopularly!) think the widely beloved Jackson was often just another example of the temperamental, whiny, bitter, immature, sulky, freakout-prone males who were more beloved by AS-P than with a certain segment of the show's fanbase :) 

[readster]

 

If I remember right, wasn't Jess given notice of what would happen?  Didn't the principal tell Jess something to the extent that he had been warned?  I just figured he was hiding whatever notices the school was sending home.

 

  If it was 10 years earlier, I could see it. However, when there is failure of notice from a legal guardian or parent. Then there is an investigation about why things are being ignored. Of course, I'm in the school system so I know how things work. With ASP she "believed" she knew how certain societies and systems worked. As for Taylor's remarks on the sports, sadly, sports is the most expensive and most used part of a school's budget both public and private. If coaches are failing and if students are not participating in said sports and academics. That goes a long way to how the the school sees its teachers, coaches and yes, academics.

[takalotti]

With ASP she "believed" she knew how certain societies and systems worked.

Wait, so you're saying Yale ISN'T a safety school? ;) Teasing ASP, not readster.

Edited March 18, 2015 by takalotti

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

After a bit of a Gilmore break I watched Wedding Bell Blues and I completely forgot that Lorelai got that wedding planner fired and she didn't even care. She just stood there and listened to Emily complain about the messed up seating chart. The same chart she was pettily messing with as she complained about how rich people can get away with anything. The same woman who later on gets completely pissy about Logan pulling the same kind of stunt. And Rory stood by silent both times, so I'm not sure why she only gets flack for not saying anything when its the maid, the wedding planner doesn't deserve a job?

[HeySandyStrange]

 

As long as I'm wishing, I'd have been more than fine with Paris/Doyle and Lane/Zach had never gotten together in the first place either!

 

I don't have much opinion about Paris/Doyle, but I hold the possibly very unpopular opinion that I was (overall) okay with Lane and Zach together. I'll admit, I felt  at first that the characters were thrown together when Dave left the show and it might have made more sense for Lane to go for Brian if she had to be with someone in the band.  But once they advanced Zach a little past the "dumb jerk" phase to still being dim but a bit more likable and who seemed to care a lot for Lane, I was better with it. I could even tolerate the pregnancy storyline, because unplanned pregnancies do happen and in GG land it seems to be an epidemic :). I'd like to think once the  twins were a little older, Lane would go back on tour, along with the twins and Mrs. Kim to keep an eye on everyone.

 

Luke would have been much happier and more compatible with someone like Gypsy...IMUO :)

 

I'm a L/L shipper, but that would have been a interesting to explore, especially during the post season 6 breakup. I also wonder why the few former romantic interests of Luke's that we know about seemed so different, background and interests wise, then himself. Heck, if he had went on a few dates with Gypsy herself, that would have been entertaining.

Edited March 18, 2015 by HeySandyStrange

[cheezwhiz346]

I don't have much opinion about Paris/Doyle, but I hold the possibly very unpopular opinion that I was (overall) okay with Lane and Zach together. I'll admit, I felt  at first that the characters were thrown together when Dave left the show and it might have made more sense for Lane to go for Brian if she had to be with someone in the band.  But once they advanced Zach a little past the "dumb jerk" phase to still being dim but a bit more likable and who seemed to care a lot for Lane, I was better with it. I could even tolerate the pregnancy storyline, because unplanned pregnancies do happen and in GG land it seems to be an epidemic :). I'd like to think once the  twins were a little older, Lane would go back on tour, along with the twins and Mrs. Kim to keep an eye on everyone.

While I was not a Paris/Doyle fan at all, I did actually think Lane and Zach were pretty sweet. Although I love the scene where Lane asks Rory if she thinks she's in love with Zach, because Rory's face must have been most viewers faces at that point (esp. since Lane never actually broke up with Dave, that anyone saw, from what I remember). I felt like ASP was just being self-consciously transparent, there, saying yeah, we know this is kind of a cheap plot move, but we're doing it anyway. But I still thought they were sweet together. I feel like I will never understand Zach's freakout on stage before they broke up, though. Was a reason ever actually given for that or was he just out of his mind?

 

Really I think Lane/Zach works for me on a surface level because I thought they had a lot of good moments and I just never thought about their relationship in too much depth. The pregnancy storyline tested that, because Lane had actual dreams of being a musician and had never shown a real interest in having kids, esp. that young, so while they still managed to make the plot amusing (I also think I just always liked the way Lane, Zach, Mrs. Kim, Brian and Gil interacted, so their scenes were always generally fun for me), it made less and less sense.

Edited March 19, 2015 by damngoodcoffee

[amensisterfriend]

I also wonder why the few former romantic interests of Luke's that we know about seemed so different, background and interests wise, then himself. Heck, if he had went on a few dates with Gypsy herself, that would have been entertaining.

 

Very good point re all of his girlfriends being so opposite from him! It's kind of a lazy rom-com-y trope (and one I've always held the UO of disliking not just on GG, but in fiction in general!) that 'opposites' are drawn to each other...which may be true initially, but my UO is that couples who have commonality, compatibility and connection are much more believable, lovable and root-worthy for me. And that doesn't mean those type of couples are boring---for instance, I think Luke and Gypsy could have given us tons of snark-filled fun despite/because I feel they'd have bonded far better and more naturally than Luke/Lorelai did. (Just as I bought Lorelai's connections with Christopher and Digger far more than her dynamic with Luke once they became romantically involved)   

 

I have the UO of really liking the Lorelai/Luke subplot in We've Got Magic to Do because for me it addressed one of a few proverbial, omnipresent elephants-in-the-room with them---namely, that they have virtually zero interests, personality traits and ways of looking at the world in common, and not only does that lead to their constant bickering, but how does that actually affect how they choose to spend their spare time day to day?  Do they compromise/sacrifice their own interests just to spend time with each other or each pursue their own separate interests (assuming Luke has real interests!) independently? Do they end up learning from each other and expanding their own horizons or just realizing yet again how very dissimilar they are? I found it one of the most relatable L/L storylines of their (relatively joyless and depressing, IMO!) coupledom, and it reminded me of why the best couples I know in real life and in fiction tend to get along (as opposed to constant I-just-don't-get-where-you're-coming-from bickering) and have a lot in common. I know that's often considered dull by TV standards, though, where irreconcilable differences and a perpetual inability to connect and get each other is often conflated with 'chemistry'.  

 

But aside from both residing in SH, I actually hold the UO of thinking Luke didn't have any more in common with Lorelai than he did with Nicole. Yes, both Luke and Lorelai are stubborn and ultimately maintain connections to their nutty family members, but both of those things are true of the vast majority of people I know. 

 

Re Lane and Zach: I should have added that I did like them in S7. Actually, I think couples/romance in general was better depicted in S7 than in any prior season. AS-P is good at the buildup to romance and fantastic at capturing the feel and aftermath of a breakup, but I think she's actually pretty AWFUL at writing/directing actual relationships. Granted, she wasn't really helped along by LG and SP having (again, IMUO!) some of the worst onscreen chemistry I've ever seen. 

 

In my unpopular head canon: 

 

1. Luke is with Gypsy or happily single (to the extent that he can ever be happy about anything!) 

2. Lorelai is with some hybrid of Digger/Christopher (maybe Digger played by David Sutcliffe!) or happily single. 

3. Rory, after taking some time to better define herself alone, is with Logan---albeit the somewhat more lovable Logan of fanfics, and one who uses a lot less gel in his hair :) 

3. Paris is with Jess. (I know...I know!) 

4. Rachel and Christopher (the improved Christopher we saw in S7 before the writers hastily recalled that L/L are supposed to be endgame!) are in a casual, nontraditional but fun-filled and mutually satisfying relationship. Both sometimes laugh over the bullets they dodged by not ending up with Luke and Lorelai. 

5. AS-P realizes that jealous, temperamental, sulky, weirdly angry men are not actually a sexy, romantic ideal and applies that epiphany to her next show, which turns out to be just as charming, witty and wonderful as GG, but with more likable male characters and more root-worthy relationships. 

 

...My head is a weird place to be ;) 

Edited March 19, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Taryn74]

I feel like I will never understand Zach's freakout on stage before they broke up, though. Was a reason ever actually given for that or was he just out of his mind?

 

 

Having known and observed "garage band musicians" most of my teenage and adult life, I think Zach just was crazy nervous but tried to hide it behind an 'I'm so edgy and rock-n-roll and chill' front and basically just went off his nut.  I found it believable.  Frustrating, but believable.

 

Gil running across the stage to tackle him will never not make me laugh, though.

[HeySandyStrange]

I have the UO of really liking the Lorelai/Luke subplot in We've Got Magic to Do because for me it addressed one of a few proverbial, omnipresent elephants-in-the-room with them---namely, that they have virtually zero interests, personality traits and ways of looking at the world in common, and not only does that lead to their constant bickering, but how does that actually affect how they choose to spend their spare time day to day?  Do they compromise/sacrifice their own interests just to spend time with each other or each pursue their own separate interests (assuming Luke has real interests!) independently?

 

 

Very true, and they really could have made more out of the fact Lorelai and Luke were so different. Luke did have interests, they were just of the camping/fishing/outdoorsy variety, while Lorelai was of the snarky/pop-culture variety. It didn't help either that I think the Luke of Season's 1&2, the one that was knowledgeable of things like politics and the environment, seemed to have those traits rooted out of him in the intervening years. Maybe if they had kept those parts of Luke it might've have given Lorelai and him something to actually talk about.  Or have them try to understand the others interests and maybe even learn to enjoy them together.

 

 Actually, to amend what I said earlier, I will say the most compatible relationship he was in was probably with Rachel. She seemed pretty relaxed and low drama, was possibly from a similar background as Luke,and seemed like she could have been outdoorsy type as well. The big thing dividing them was that she had wanderlust and Luke was very much rooted in one place. 

[readster]

After a bit of a Gilmore break I watched Wedding Bell Blues and I completely forgot that Lorelai got that wedding planner fired and she didn't even care. She just stood there and listened to Emily complain about the messed up seating chart. The same chart she was pettily messing with as she complained about how rich people can get away with anything. The same woman who later on gets completely pissy about Logan pulling the same kind of stunt. And Rory stood by silent both times, so I'm not sure why she only gets flack for not saying anything when its the maid, the wedding planner doesn't deserve a job?

 

 Oh I know. I mean Lorelai knew who her mother was. What did she think would happen? I hate when episodes did this with the characters. It was the classic: "The best characters never learn" crap most writers and show writers like to give testimony with along with the "moonlighting curse". Something was constantly consistent with Emily was how ADHD she was with things out of place. Noticing brooches out of place, a fork too far to the right of the dinner plate, the seating  chart magically screwed up when it was fine just 24 hours prior but it was also what I hated about the character. I mean, Emily never let people explain things, the Wedding Planner was even referred to that she had no idea how the seating chart got out of order. In Emily's mind: "Liar! I know what I think is the absolute truth to everything in the universe!" "You're fired!" I do wonder at times if Emily had a type of compulsive disordered but never revealed it to anyone. 

[dustylil]

A compulsive disorder and way too much time on her hands. Then there are the anger management issues....

[amensisterfriend]

Then there are the anger management issues....

 

Heh---sadly, I can think of at least six or seven GG characters who could have benefited from some intensive anger management therapy. I'm always hoping for a fanfic that revolves around that very premise :)  

Edited March 19, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

My problem isn't Emily in this specific situation. It's Lorelai, and her picking and choosing when it's okay to fool around and get people fired and that she didn't own up to her fault in the situation. She didn't even seem to care. Not to mention the irony that the firing brought to the her little rant while she messed up the chart.  And the fact that Rory not saying anything when its the maid is proof of her "changing" yet she did the exact same thing here and its no big deal.

[KatWay]

Mainly it's because that little bit was just played for a cheap on-off laugh and we don't really know what happened later...we never saw the wedding planner get fired or anyone else saying anything. If she did, well, she would have had to get paid anyways, since the wedding was already underway.

 

I didn't really see Rory not saying anything about the maid as proof of change, she'd always been spineless when it came to her love interests (hello, Jess) and let them get away with everything.

[dustylil]

Just six or seven GG characters, amen? My list is longer :)

[Taryn74]

Mainly it's because that little bit was just played for a cheap on-off laugh and we don't really know what happened later...we never saw the wedding planner get fired or anyone else saying anything. If she did, well, she would have had to get paid anyways, since the wedding was already underway.

 

Yeah, it was childish and petty of Lorelai to do it and then not 'fess up, but it's not like Emily Gilmore's wedding would have been the sole source of income for the wedding planner until she found another job or anything.  Even if she was "fired" she still would have gotten paid most, if not all, of her fee for the work she already had done.  Which....is exactly what you just said, LOL.  Sorry.

 

I imagine any wedding planner who works with the likes of Emily Gilmore has probably been "fired" for petty reasons before, too.  That's unfortunately the kind of thing that comes with the territory.

[txhorns79]

Yeah, it was childish and petty of Lorelai to do it and then not 'fess up, but it's not like Emily Gilmore's wedding would have been the sole source of income for the wedding planner until she found another job or anything.  Even if she was "fired" she still would have gotten paid most, if not all, of her fee for the work she already had done.  Which....is exactly what you just said, LOL.  Sorry.

 

I think for me, like others have suggested, is that you see how uncomfortable Lorelai is when the maid is nearly fired for Logan's stealing, but here Lorelai actually does get someone fired, and there's nothing.  It's just an inconsistency of the show.  Sometimes it is frustrating.   

[KatWay]

 

I think for me, like others have suggested, is that you see how uncomfortable Lorelai is when the maid is nearly fired for Logan's stealing, but here Lorelai actually does get someone fired, and there's nothing.  It's just an inconsistency of the show.  Sometimes it is frustrating.

The common problem of dramedies - sometimes stuff is just played for fun, a random throwaway joke, and not taken seriously at all (nor expected to be taken seriously), sometimes the perhaps almost exact same storyline is suddenly a huge drama with consequences involved for everyone. See also the bullying storylines on Glee, medical screw ups on Grey's Anatomy, etc.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Yeah, it was childish and petty of Lorelai to do it and then not 'fess up, but it's not like Emily Gilmore's wedding would have been the sole source of income for the wedding planner until she found another job or anything.  Even if she was "fired" she still would have gotten paid most, if not all, of her fee for the work she already had done.  Which....is exactly what you just said, LOL.  Sorry.

 

I imagine any wedding planner who works with the likes of Emily Gilmore has probably been "fired" for petty reasons before, too.  That's unfortunately the kind of thing that comes with the territory.

 

Emily seems like the kind of person who would talk trash about someone forever. Emily could be on her death bed and if she heard someone was getting married she would use her last breaths to mutter how incompetent the one she hired for her vowel renewal was. So it could absolutely cause some problems for the planner later on. And I don't think it's okay that she be treated badly just because she may have other sources of income. And she absolutely was fired.

 

"EMILY: Utter disaster. That moronic wedding planner finally fulfilled her potential. I get here and I go through my seating chart, and it's a mess. It looked like a drunken psychopath took a stab at it. I had to re-do the entire thing. It took me two hours and years off my life.

LORELAI: Maybe she just got confused.

EMILY: She did get confused. Confused about what her profession should be. Anyway, I fired her. That should help clarify things for her."

 

 

The common problem of dramedies - sometimes stuff is just played for fun, a random throwaway joke, and not taken seriously at all (nor expected to be taken seriously), sometimes the perhaps almost exact same storyline is suddenly a huge drama with consequences involved for everyone. See also the bullying storylines on Glee, medical screw ups on Grey's Anatomy, etc.

 

I think it wouldn't bother me so much if the two circumstances happened farther apart in the series. ASP just seems tone deaf as to how horrible the characters act at times. Especially when your apparently supposed to pick and choose which characteristics and actions matter in the grand scheme of a character.

[amensisterfriend]

Emily could be on her death bed and if she heard someone was getting married she would use her last breaths to mutter how incompetent the one she hired for her vowel renewal was.

 

LOL---wasn't there a line on the show about her holding petty grudges longer than any human ever to inhabit the planet? Or was that a line from one of our brilliant posters here?!

 

The common problem of dramedies - sometimes stuff is just played for fun, a random throwaway joke, and not taken seriously at all (nor expected to be taken seriously), sometimes the perhaps almost exact same storyline is suddenly a huge drama with consequences involved for everyone. See also the bullying storylines on Glee, medical screw ups on Grey's Anatomy, etc.

 

I think it wouldn't bother me so much if the two circumstances happened farther apart in the series. ASP just seems tone deaf as to how horrible the characters act at times. Especially when you're apparently supposed to pick and choose which characteristics and actions matter in the grand scheme of a character.

 

Yup...both these things :) I think I've rambled about this before---the downside of ASP's generally engaging  blend of super stylized, quirky humor with emotional realism is that it can make the show tonally jarring to the point of inducing whiplash. As you guys noted, you're left to try to sort out what should be taken seriously vs. what should be dismissed as stuff that was purely for comedic effect. And you guys are so right about it making for some infuriating characterizations in the name of (ostensibly!) being funny. I'll give AS-P credit for often giving us more vibrant, dynamic and lively main characters than we get on many other shows, but they were more maddeningly over the top and severely flawed as well.

 

Sometimes I can objectively see that gap between how I feel and what AS-P intended, but I'll still find myself unable to bridge it. Like, for instance, I know that we're not supposed to view Luke as TRULY needing anger management therapy, especially since AS-P consistently shows throughout the series that she thinks men throwing temper tantrums is comedic and adorable, but I can't help but bring my own perceptions to what I see and find myself cringing when he rants too loudly and angrily for too long, literally throws customers out of his diner, comes across as vaguely menacing around Lorelai despite knowing we're supposed to view him as simply annoyed, etc. The acting and writing combine in a way that makes it hard for me to shrug off Luke's over-the-top anger as just typical GG comedic exaggeration. (I know that he vast majority of GG fans adore Luke, so I'm in a small minority here---but I'm just using Luke as one of many GG characters who exemplifies your above points!) 

[readster]

 

Sometimes I can objectively see that gap between how I feel and what AS-P intended, but I'll still find myself unable to bridge it. Like, for instance, I know that we're not supposed to view Luke as TRULY needing anger management therapy, especially since AS-P consistently shows throughout the series that she thinks men throwing temper tantrums is comedic and adorable, but I can't help but bring my own perceptions to what I see and find myself cringing when he rants too loudly and angrily for too long, literally throws customers out of his diner, comes across as vaguely menacing around Lorelai despite knowing we're supposed to view him as simply annoyed, etc. The acting and writing combine in a way that makes it hard for me to shrug off Luke's over-the-top anger as just typical GG comedic exaggeration. (I know that he vast majority of GG fans adore Luke, so I'm in a small minority here---but I'm just using Luke as one of many GG characters who exemplifies your above points!)

 

 I completely agree much to Kirk and Taylor constant over the top of things. It was suppose to be "funny and zany" but AS-P constantly over stepped the line. One thing I will never forgive, especially where Luke was involved was Kirk driving through the diner because Taylor's men didn't install the red light camera correctly. Not to mention how unneeded it was. That was one of the few times where Luke didn't lose his temper. I'm sorry, if that would have been me and my business. Kirk would have had both knees bashed in and Taylor would have gotten his stupid sodas thrown in his face before I popped him one. I was happy that both Taylor and Kirk not only apologized but wanted to pay for the pairs and any lost in business. Of course, I love Luke saying: "Like the guys who put in the camera?" 

 

 Something that is an UO is Jess working for Walmart. I loved that he was such a hard worker and even won a reward for new employee. However, I was suppose to think about the kid who didn't want to live in a small town, who was a reader and book smart thought working at Walmart was SO MUCH better than going to class? I don't fault the manager because seniors in high school will at times have different schedules in private or public. They can just have classes in the morning or afternoon and be free the other times. However, Jess worked for Walmart to do two things: 1) get the extra money for his POS car and 2) for the discount for said pieces to fix up the car. We were suppose to believed that Jess loved working at Walmart so much he not only skipped school but also skipped out at helping at Luke's Diner because he found that degrading? Right.

[solotrek]

We were suppose to believed that Jess loved working at Walmart so much he not only skipped school but also skipped out at helping at Luke's Diner because he found that degrading? Right.

 

I think he said that he got better money at Wal-mart than working in the diner. I assume the diner was mostly a low wage + tip salary and Wal-mart was minimum wage.

[readster]

I think he said that he got better money at Wal-mart than working in the diner. I assume the diner was mostly a low wage + tip salary and Wal-mart was minimum wage.

 

 Oh I remember that too but Jess was of course beginning his classic "whitewash" so him leaving the show made sense. Of course, I have known people who did work for Walmart and then went and became waiters and waitresses and liked the latter due to tips. I also just can't buy that the school was letting Jess skip that much before there was an investigation. It would be one thing if he showed up for the first class of the day and then leave. However, he was acting like a spy, walking up to the school. Then making sure no one saw him hiding and then waiting a few for the bell to ring and people to be inside and not running late. That was a little too much.

[JayInChicago]

When I was in high school, IIRC just being late for one class was an after school detention. Skipping a day was at least 1 Saturday detention, if not more than 1. And soon after you'd get suspended. They weren't playing. And it was kept electronically, in the 90s so I imagine Stars Hollow would have had a similar system by the 00s. It's simply not plausible that there wouldn't be letters and phone calls home to Luke very soon into Jess's skipping one or two days. At some point they would have considered him withdrawn and he probably wouldn't been able to even enter school grounds.  very stupid plot line.

[readster]

When I was in high school, IIRC just being late for one class was an after school detention. Skipping a day was at least 1 Saturday detention, if not more than 1. And soon after you'd get suspended. They weren't playing. And it was kept electronically, in the 90s so I imagine Stars Hollow would have had a similar system by the 00s. It's simply not plausible that there wouldn't be letters and phone calls home to Luke very soon into Jess's skipping one or two days. At some point they would have considered him withdrawn and he probably wouldn't been able to even enter school grounds.  very stupid plot line.

 

 Exactly, instead they treated it like it was the 1970s on notification and letting Jess get that far to a repeat of senior year. No way could Jess have intercepted all forms of communication between the school and Luke. It reminded me of the very stupid story line on Party of 5 back in the day. Where Lacey Chaber's character was deleting all phone calls by the school about her problems. Yet, they never called her brother at work or sent letters, the next thing you know the police show up trying to remove her from the house thinking child abuse and neglect. This was the mid 90s it was like: "Huh?" "How do you go from failure of return phone calls to calling DCFS?" 

[Mick Lady]

Posting for the first time here on the GG thread! My UO is that I love Jason, and I'm glad to see the others share my passion!

 

But I came her to share this- have any of you seen the show It's Like, You Know? If not, check it out on YouTube. It stars Chris Eigeman, but if you watch the episode The Client., you'll see Scott Patterson in a guest role, and he has long hair!

 

This show is the reason I love Jason so. His character is a lot like Jason, and started my addiction for this actor!

[amensisterfriend]

My UO is that I love Jason, and I'm glad to see the others share my passion!

 

Heh---it's always fun to see fellow Digger fans :) And I definitely hold the UO that he was objectively the 'best', most compatible match for Lorelai in so many ways despite feeling she had more physical/romantic chemistry with Christopher. 

 

How's this for unpopular (not to mention absurdly shallow!): I don't find any of the male GG characters particularly handsome at all, though obviously I can see why others do. And I swear that I'm usually not too picky in that regard!  And I'm not just saying saying this because I have the UO of liking Luke less than the vast majority of other GG fans do, but I can count on less than one hand the number of times I found Scott Patterson remotely attractive. It's not the flannel, either---his hair, bulky body, etc. are just really unappealing to me.

 

I suppose it doesn't help that the majority of GG males are always scowling because AS-P seems to think constant anger, petulance and bitterness are REALLY sexy ;)  

Edited April 28, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[JayInChicago]

Scott has pretty eyes but I'm not feeling much else about him. The famous bed scene with the ugliest brown flannel sheets ever to exist --he's like Mr All Torso Man. I guess a lot of attracted-to-dudes people like bulky trim torsos, but i dunno. give me plump or skinny instead.  

 

then again i generally think Sean Gunn is kind of weirdly cute so my opinion is suspect.

[Delphi]

Meh, as an attracted to dudes dude I find Scott lacking. I love Luke. And I loved Scott in that movie with Angelina Jolie but it's his personality that shines (and eyes of course) through.

For the record, I don't think Sean is cute at all.

[junienmomo]

SP's blue eyes are fabulous. In general, tall, dark and ruggedly handsome is my type, but until Luke I'd never been attracted to the V-shape body (broad shoulders, narrow hips). Now I'm a fan, in spite of the COUNTLESS unbelievably bad camera angles Luke had, some of them frighteningly ugly.

 

I'm guessing it was a planned thing that the only bare chests (excepting Gunn's for comic relief) were Logan's and Luke's. Logan's shaved(?) chest only served to make Luke look even more manly, like he was the only one with testosterone on the show.

 

This is probably an UO, but I thought that LG also had very few really good camera angles. When they focused on her hair and makeup she looked great (same for SP), but sometimes they would catch her "rabbit face" which I found creepy.

[dustylil]

If I recall correctly, we did get a brief glance of Richard's chest (complete with chain and medallion!) when Lorelai came into her parents' bedroom in the first episode of Season 6.

[readster]

If I recall correctly, we did get a brief glance of Richard's chest (complete with chain and medallion!) when Lorelai came into her parents' bedroom in the first episode of Season 6.

Yeah and I do remember a lot of critics and fans saying that was so not like Richard. In fact it was revealed it was Edward Herman himself who owned the chain and meant something to him. However, he said he would have taken it off if asked. I can see that after 6 seasons of knowing Richard, why would he have a long gold chain on and even more, why wear it to bed. Very few people wear chains like that to bed for specific reasons. My wife has a medical alert necklace and her grandmother's cross she wears every day but not to bed. She doesn't like being choked to death at night. Why everyone from fans to reviewers thought it was out of place.

[JayInChicago]

i am secretly dying over rabbit face.

 

to me lauren is beautiful but her character is so flawed i'm more like 'eh' to Lorelai

 

and by "her character" i mean the fictitious character she portrays. lol. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by JayInChicago

[amensisterfriend]

Based on most other threads, these seem pretty unpopular: 

 

1) I don't think Rory/Jess's connection was purely physical/sexual. I'm not here to defend Jess or the objective health and stability of their relationship, but I loved them despite the fact that they're normally a couple I'd dislike. That was in large part because I really did buy into the fact that they naturally, instinctively 'got' each other on every level---emotionally and intellectually, not just physically. I did think they had the most physical/sexual/romantic chemistry of any GG-verse couple except maybe Christopher/Lorelai (another UO, I realize!), but even at their most frustrating, I never thought that that was the only reason they were drawn to each other. I think their feelings ran a lot deeper than that on both sides, though I totally respect that many disagree :)

 

2) I still love Rory so much more than most do. Honestly, she's still one of my favorite female characters of all time.

 

*crickets chirping*

 

And I say this despite being way, way, WAY older than she is :) I disagree with the common criticism that Rory was initially way too perfect---her passivity, rigidity, uptightness (yes, we're pretending that's a noun!), social/emotional cluelessness, desperation to have others like her and get along even when it meant throwing Lorelai and others under the proverbial bus and being dishonest about her own feelings, etc. were prevalent from the beginning.

 

On a show with REALLY (excessively?!) flawed, often outright bizarre why-aren't-they-institutionalized?! characters, I can see how Rory seemed too blandly perfect by comparison, especially since Paris possessed some of the same neuroses to a much more extreme degree. But I actually hold the UO that Early Seasons Rory was more consistently and sharply defined than she's given credit for and an awesomely relatable mixture of strengths AND flaws.

 

As for Later Seasons Rory, as painful as it often was for me to watch her grow away from her Stars Hollow self and dabble in her grandparents' world and all that, I actually agree with what they were trying to do there and why they were doing it. It's the HOW that irks me, but that's not too unpopular :)

 

3)  In my HeadCanon, Rory is a teacher or book editor...not a journalist. Never a journalist. It's just never been HER to me, and I so wish that her S5-S6 arc had been about rigid, stick-to-plans-come-hell-or-high-water Rory coming to that realization. Even her scenes at the Yale Daily News tend to be fast forward worthy for me. 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

 

3)  In my HeadCanon, Rory is a teacher or book editor...not a journalist. Never a journalist. It's just never been HER to me, and I so wish that her S5-S6 arc had been about rigid, stick-to-plans-come-hell-or-high-water Rory coming to that realization. Even her scenes at the Yale Daily News tend to be fast forward worthy for me.

I agree with this so, so much. It always baffles me how wrong this career choice was for the character from the start. Nothing about it fit with Rory's reserved, passive nature at all. I had hope at the end of season 5 that the Mitchum thing was the start of an acknowledgement of that and the character would either branch out into something different or realize she needed to make some changes and learn and expand who she was if she truly wanted to be a journalist. Instead the writers went with Mitchum's just a meanie and Rory is perfect as is. So disappointing.

[amensisterfriend]

It always baffles me how wrong this career choice was for the character from the start.

 

Exactly! That's the thing---I think our opinion isn't SO unpopular when it comes to Later Seasons Rory, but my UO (and apparently yours!) is that that particular career choice NEVER made sense for this particular character, or at least not the way AB played her. (And another UO I have is that I love Alexis Bledel's portrayal far more than most did, but she has a certain innate shyness, awkwardness, introversion and delicacy/fragility that just makes the 'hard nosed international correspondent' thing even more unlikely.) I mean, Rory wouldn't even want to ask certain questions for fear that the subject of the interview might get mad at her ;) And---and, coming from a lifelong homebody like me, this is more of a compliment than an insult---I see her as someone who would prefer to spend most of her free time cozily at home with good books and doing movie/TV marathons with a few close friends rather than forever traveling around from one hotel room to the next. 

 

I had hope at the end of season 5 that the Mitchum thing was the start of an acknowledgement of that and the character would either branch out into something different or realize she needed to make some changes and learn and expand who she was if she truly wanted to be a journalist. Instead the writers went with Mitchum's just a meanie

 

Gah---I know, right?! 

 

On one hand, on the rare occasions when I rewatch parts of S6, I sometimes find myself holding the UO that it's not AS totally, irredeemably awful as I'd recalled. On the other hand, the fact that it actually had some potential to be so, so much better than it was, particularly with regard to Rory, drives me nutty :)

 

Another UO: The gap between the fairly popular S5 and widely reviled S6 is surprisingly narrow for me; I seem to like S5 much, much, MUCH less than most do, probably due in part (but not totally!) to my UOs re Luke and Lorelai as a couple. And I genuinely prefer S7 to both! 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Yeah, I mean she could just like and admire Christiane Amanpour without wanting to emulate her. People have role models that have nothing to do with career choices. Why couldn't she be Rory's in-another-life feminist icon.

 

I feel like the international correspondent thing should have been Lorelai's pre-Rory dream for her life. The freedom and the travel and the dealing with people in a certain way just seem more her. Then Rory could have latched on to it briefly in childhood and eventually realized she wanted to do something different with her life.

[HeySandyStrange]

And I say this despite being way, way, WAY older than she is :) I disagree with the common criticism that Rory was initially way too perfect---her passivity, rigidity, uptightness (yes, we're pretending that's a noun!), social/emotional cluelessness, desperation to have others like her and get along even when it meant throwing Lorelai and others under the proverbial bus and being dishonest about her own feelings, etc. were prevalent from the beginning.

 

Speaking for myself, it wasn't that Rory was perfect-because technically she did have plenty of presented flaws-it was that her imperfections were somehow glossed over by EVERYONE, from her doting family to the random bystander on the street. The few times her flaws were pointed out, such as by Mitchum's infamous dressing down, it was written to be obvious that the critic was a big old jealous meanie, most of the time. As someone who has more then a few things in common with Rory in regards to character traits, people have had no issue calling me out on my BS for the most part. So the princess Rory syndrome rang pretty false for me.

 

I think you are pretty right on about Rory's correspondent aspirations being influenced by Lorelai, RoyRogersMcFreely. It was insinuated more then once that Rory's whole Harvard dream egged on in her early years by Lorelai, who seemed to feel she missed out on her chance. Which is funny, because outside of her parents influence, I would never see Lorelai as a potential Ivy Leaguer. I find it hard to believe she would have ever been serious and dedicated enough make it if she wasn't already a shoe in because of her pedigree and wealth.

Edited May 13, 2015 by HeySandyStrange

[amensisterfriend]

But it made the moments when she WAS called out by Paris, Jess, even Lorelai etc. all the more impactful for me :) And it's true that the town's adoration of both titular Gilmore Girls tended to be way over the top---I'm guessing that's a pretty popular opinion! Even someone who loves Early Rory as unabashedly as I do finds it annoying. :) 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I don't care about Marty. I don't think he would have been good for Rory. I don't care that Logan was dismissive of him (I actually think some of that is overblown). He is "nice guy" wallpaper to me. I forget he exists until he pops up in an episode.

 

Maybe, he could have been interesting with Paris. Maybe. 

[amensisterfriend]

RoryRogersMcFeely, welcome to the Meh on Marty table! I always thought I was sitting here alone :) And I actually really WANTED to love Marty. Objectively I feel he's a great match for Rory, maybe even the BEST match for Rory; at that point in the series I was pretty much ready to root for Any Guy Who Wasn't Logan; and I think Yale in particular and the show in general needed more endearingly geeky, smart, charmingly self-deprecating guys (usually my favorite 'type'---hence my somewhat unpopular love for Brian!) and Marty seemed to at least be an attempt to fill that role. So imagine my disappointment when Marty just didn't work for me. He was kind of a dull sad sack, and lord knows the last thing this show needed was yet more negative, sulky, jealous, and somewhat bitter men!  And I somehow just didn't buy a genuinely close, I-get-you connection between Marty and Rory, even as friends. I know we were supposed to believe that they really clicked and that Rory felt close to him and all that, but somehow I just didn't see it. Every time I rewatch I have high hopes that I'll fall in love or even in strong like with Marty, but so far that's yet to happen. And I swear that's not because I now know the jaw-droppingly awful character assassination which awaits him in S7 :)  

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

RoryRogersMcFeely, welcome to the Meh on Marty table! I always thought I was sitting here alone :) And I actually really WANTED to love Marty. Objectively I feel he's a great match for Rory, maybe even the BEST match for Rory; at that point in the series I was pretty much ready to root for Any Guy Who Wasn't Logan; and I think Yale in particular and the show in general needed more endearingly geeky, smart, charmingly self-deprecating guys (usually my favorite 'type'---hence my somewhat unpopular love for Brian!) and Marty seemed to at least be an attempt to fill that role. So imagine my disappointment when Marty just didn't work for me. He was kind of a dull sad sack, and lord knows the last thing this show needed was yet more negative, sulky, jealous, and somewhat bitter men!  And I somehow just didn't buy a genuinely close, I-get-you connection between Marty and Rory, even as friends. I know we were supposed to believe that they really clicked and that Rory felt close to him and all that, but somehow I just didn't see it. Every time I rewatch I have high hopes that I'll fall in love or even in strong like with Marty, but so far that's yet to happen. And I swear that's not because I now know the jaw-droppingly awful character assassination which awaits him in S7 :)  

The argument I always ran across for Marty/Rory was she needed to find her Luke, which, no she didn't. Her and Lorelai are very different personality wise, have very different life experiences. They are not the same person. Rory is more of a Luke, if anything. She needs someone to drag her out of herself a little. To experience things. And quite frankly Marty was a shockingly life-less character on a show full of passionate characters. Rory seems to be attracted to vibrant passionate people in all aspects of her life. 

 

I didn't know it was unpopular to love Brian! I thought he was adorable and he should have been the one Lane hooked up with instead of Zach. 

[amensisterfriend]

I didn't know it was unpopular to love Brian! I thought he was adorable and he should have been the one Lane hooked up with instead of Zach.

 

God yes! To make this more unpopular, I should add that Brian and Digger are pretty much the only two GG males I think i would genuinely like and connect with in real life :) 

 

And quite frankly Marty was a shockingly lifeless character on a show full of passionate characters. Rory seems to be attracted to vibrant passionate people in all aspects of her life.

 

This captures it so well. And, yes, Marty WAS kind of bitter and negative and lacking in enthusiasm for pretty much everything yet down to earth and generous like Luke, wasn't he? And since I always think of Dean and Luke as somewhat similar, I guess this must mean I think Dean and Marty are similar, though the latter was more academically inclined and less eager to marry at a very young age for no apparent reason :)