One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[amensisterfriend]

I didn't really find any of the guys in the cast attractive.

 

I don't either, so we can sit at a table for two! And I swear that I'm not usually picky when it comes to that sort of thing :) At first I thought it was because the GG males just happen to be the exact sort of "types" I generally can't stand----rude, bitter, angry, jealous, prone to storming out of places like temperamental babies without listening to explanations, relentlessly negative, horrific communicators etc. like Luke, Dean, Jess and more or smarmy, arrogant, spoiled, hard drinking playboys like Logan and Christopher.  (Or just too flat and dull to even feel like real people, like Max or Alex or early S1 Dean!) But even when I just look at pictures without knowing the context, I find most of the GG male actors/characters strangely unappealing. I can totally see why many find some or all of them attractive, but for some reason I just don't. (I have found David Sutcliffe and Milo V. mildly attractive in other things, but it depends heavily on their very erratic hair :)) 

 

A UO related to the news that Finn is conformed for the revival: I found Finn and especially Colin horribly unfunny and obnoxious and could never shake the feeling that the real Rory would never want to spend a second in their company, just as she couldn't tolerate the similarly fratty, obnoxious and somewhat sexist jerks she met in Last Week Fights, This Week Tights. So I can't stand them and can't stand the more vapid Rory their presence seemed to bring out and am so very not excited to see them (or at least Finn---I don't think Colin is confirmed yet...?) return! 

Edited February 3, 2016 by deaja
Added spoiler tags

[Melancholy]

Is it an UO to dislike Colin and Finn? Of course, they were idiotic assholes, but *I* thought they were funny relative to their screentime. Their finest moment being the "Rory Gilmore, give these men back their balls!" skit (although Richard/Rory topped the pranks so hard with the marriage threat to Logan). I always thought Rory's real beef with the fratty guys in Last Weeks Fights, This Weeks Tights was primarily that they were ignoring her and not being solicitous of her plans for a nice Last Night at Yale Before Summer between hyper broing it up at the bar to the plans to drunk drive pub crawl. Rory had her issues with Colin and Finn too but they were very different from those guys because they showed Rory a good time by flattering her and going out to nice restaurants and having faux-Hemingway dissolute banter and heck, even sometimes being her errand boys. 

[amensisterfriend]

Hmm...I disagree with a lot of your opinions, Melancholy, but that's what this thread is for, so we can just agree to disagree :) But, yes, a lot of people I know think Colin and Finn are hilarious and are very excited about the prospect of their return (and the implication that this means Logan is coming back as well), so my wanting to fast forward through about 99% of their scenes is definitely a UO in my world! 

 

On a totally different note, if I had to pick just 6-7 characters I wanted to see in the revival, I think Gypsy would be among them. I just really enjoy her and the actress who plays her beyond reason! 

Edited February 3, 2016 by deaja
Added spoiler tags

[themoon411]

My uo is that I don't think jess was a "bad boy". The only bad things he did was skip school to work at walmart, smoke, and pull childish pranks. He didn't do drugs , or steal, or attack people with a hammers. Really his only issue was the school thing, and he was just a kid destined for a ged. Nothing wrong with that...

Also I thought it was a bit annoying the way rory seemed to roll her eyes at the thought of Paris being her best friend. I felt during the college years she had just as much claim to that title as lane. Yes, emotionally lane was a better friend, but paris was the only person ( aside from maybe the grandpa and later logan) who really understood rory and her work/school issues. With who was she going to discuss reporter issues, stuff she learned in class, and documentaries on obscure topics with. Paris was really the only person in her life who really understood the challenges of yale. Until the last season, we never rory close to anyone at yale, and I imagine if paris wasn't around rory's yale experience would have been much worse. The show implies that paris was the chief beneficiary from their friendship, when in fact rory profited just as much as paris.

[Kohola3]

A UO related to the news that Finn is conformed for the revival: I found Finn and especially Colin horribly unfunny and obnoxious and could never shake the feeling that the real Rory would never want to spend a second in their company

 

If that's an UO, then I'd be shocked.  I think more people dislike them than like them.  I though they were insufferable and always FFed through any scenes in which the disgusting, supercilious asses appeared.

[Guest]

Just as a reminder, any confirmed news about the revival needs to be spoiler tagged or put in a different thread.  This includes casting news, set photos, and sides.

 

Thank you!

[RainbowBrite]

I just watched 6.02 Fight Face and I have seen on the board here just how much most people dislike TJ and season 6, but I just LOVE Luke in this episode. The whole scene in which Lorelai shows Luke the hole in her house made me laugh. I actually re-watched the scene two more times. Luke plotting out how he would kill TJ, the expressions, everything. It was just so on-point. 

[JayInChicago]

One thing that keeps me rewatching is just how flawed all these characters are.

I mean, that's pretty real even with the sort of mildly magical realism GG swirl around the show. Most people are flawed.

[Melancholy]

My uo is that I don't think jess was a "bad boy". The only bad things he did was skip school to work at walmart, smoke, and pull childish pranks. He didn't do drugs , or steal, or attack people with a hammers. Really his only issue was the school thing, and he was just a kid destined for a ged. Nothing wrong with that...

Also I thought it was a bit annoying the way rory seemed to roll her eyes at the thought of Paris being her best friend. I felt during the college years she had just as much claim to that title as lane. Yes, emotionally lane was a better friend, but paris was the only person ( aside from maybe the grandpa and later logan) who really understood rory and her work/school issues. With who was she going to discuss reporter issues, stuff she learned in class, and documentaries on obscure topics with. Paris was really the only person in her life who really understood the challenges of yale. Until the last season, we never rory close to anyone at yale, and I imagine if paris wasn't around rory's yale experience would have been much worse. The show implies that paris was the chief beneficiary from their friendship, when in fact rory profited just as much as paris.

 

Yes, I agree with all of this so much. I think Paris was quite the boon to Rory. Paris was the engine and the heavy in all of the non-stop Chilton group projects, allowing Rory to get the A while floating above the mechanics of mobilizing a group that also frequently contained Madeline and Louise into a competitive force in the Chilton grading curve from hell. Rory's VP position and post on the Franklin were her most impressive extracurriculars- and she owed the first directly to Paris and the second was very much abetted by Paris being the heavy and making the Franklin into an award-winning paper. At college, Paris was still spurring Rory to diversify her resume with activities (the international relations club) and give herself lots of post-college options. 

 

Plus, you know, I think that Rory is the kind of girl who thinks that her BFF role is firmly filled by Lorelai and she doesn't lack for a boyfriend. So, Rory doesn't look out for female friendships and in her friendship with Lane, Rory takes Lane for granted so much that their friendship disappeared into nothing. I almost think that Rory needs a pushy, clingy, fascinating friend who puts herself constantly in front of Rory for Rory have a chance at really maintaining a close friendship besides an airy "la dee da I'm Rory and everyone revolves around me." It means a lot to Rory's socialization that Paris both loves and challenges Rory so much. (I also loved that Paris was so notably fond of Richard and Lorelai. It's like Paris envied the dysfunction of the Gilmore clan so badly because hey, it was dysfunction borne of CARING as family. I just wish that Paris had more time with Emily- since they're so well-matched.)

 

In S1-2 and the Francine parts of S3, I get saying that Rory has the patience of a saint to deal with Paris and that Rory has no obligation to be BFFs, and just Rory's decency is more than enough graciousness. However after Rory made years of choices to be Paris's friend (partly because of all of the stuff above that Paris provides), Rory REALLY TICKED ME OFF when she has to correct the editorial board that she's not friends with Paris, she's just FRIENDLY or when she gives a pained smile when Lucy and Olivia raved that Paris was fascinating. It's such phoney social climber stuff- Rory will lean on Paris's force of personality and brilliance as a friend but she won't own up to being Paris's friend with others if it makes Rory seems just a little less like a Perfect All-American Princess. 

Edited February 4, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

He didn't do drugs , or steal, or attack people with a hammers

 

Well he did steal. He took a book from Rory's room and wrote some pontificating remarks in it, stole money from one of Stars Hollow's many  charitable boxes and he liberated a gnome from Babette's collection. That these items were returned (two by Luke) doesn't take away from the fact that in his early days in the town he was a petty thief.

 

That he didn't do drugs was probably out of fear of turning into his mother :)

[Melancholy]

Well he did steal. He took a book from Rory's room and wrote some pontificating remarks in it, stole money from one of Stars Hollow's many  charitable boxes and he liberated a gnome from Babette's collection. That these items were returned (two by Luke) doesn't take away from the fact that in his early days in the town he was a petty thief.

 

Well, there was the baseballs too. Anyway, I thought the baseballs and the gnome were pranks. Jess taking the book from Rory's room to annotate and return (and her bracelet) were romantic gestures. Admittedly, the money early on seemed like petty thievery. themoon411 said Jess pulled pranks- that's what most of these events were. However when Jess really needed money, he worked hard for it instead of stealing whatever he wanted.

 

I mean, let's use the (reasonable) GG application of the laws that called Rory and Logan stealing the yacht "criminal mischief" instead of grand theft or piracy. Jess's shenanigans with the baseballs and the gnome and maybe even the bridge restoration money fell in the same category. 

[dustylil]

let's use the (reasonable) GG application of the laws that called Rory and Logan stealing the yacht "criminal mischief" instead of grand theft or piracy. Jess's shenanigans with the baseballs and the gnome and maybe even the bridge restoration money fell in the same category

 

In Connecticut law, "criminal mischief" is still a crime, either a felony or a misdemeanor. So by that reasoning, Jess - while not a felon like Rory - could still have been charged and convicted of a criminal offense. 

If Jess had admitted responsibility and apologized for stealing the gnome or for taking the bridge fund money, I might have felt better towards him. But he didn't. And I didn't blame the townies for distrusting him. Frankly, I was kind of  glad when his car was "stolen" in Season 4. Karma is often  a lady dog.

[Melancholy]

In Connecticut law, "criminal mischief" is still a crime, either a felony or a misdemeanor. So by that reasoning, Jess - while not a felon like Rory - could still have been charged and convicted of a criminal offense. 

If Jess had admitted responsibility and apologized for stealing the gnome or for taking the bridge fund money, I might have felt better towards him. But he didn't. And I didn't blame the townies for distrusting him. Frankly, I was kind of  glad when his car was "stolen" in Season 4. Karma is often  a lady dog.

 

Well, sure they're all crimes- but more criminal mischief than theft. Like, Jess's chalk outline of a dead body was also criminal mischief (and vandalism). Still though, I think it'd be a jerk move to press charges in a bunch of these little instances. Of course, Jess was being a bad boy by not admitted responsibility or apologizing to the town. It's not good. It's why he was a rebellious little punk. However, I still forgave him and liked him. As for the townies, it'd be reasonable for them to watch Jess more closely around their money or the principal to take his attitude against Jess. But like, the townies having an entire town meeting to bitch and moan about Jess moving to town and to contemplate throwing him out of town was more assholic and sicker than anything Jess did. Quite a bit of the time, the townies were assholes about Jess. 

 

But I didn't blame Luke for "stealing" the car. Not really because of "karma." Jess's rude little punk pranks isn't tantamount to actually stealing A CAR, the most valuable and useful possession of a boy below the poverty line if we're really looking at "karma". I just didn't blame Luke because it was his way of trying to raise Jess right so he'd get an education. Given that Luke was the guardian, he had every right to resort to a measure like that to fulfill his own responsibility to see that Jess gets an education. And then, Jess just ran away without any notice after his school prospects were over- so Luke couldn't even give Jess his car back if he wanted to. 

Edited February 4, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

just didn't blame Luke because it was his way of trying to raise Jess right so he'd get an education. Given that Luke was the guardian, he had every right to resort to a measure like that to fulfill his own responsibility to see that Jess gets an education. And then, Jess just ran away without any notice after his school prospects were over- so Luke couldn't even give Jess his car back if he wanted to

 

There may be some confusion with the timeline. Luke took Jess' car in Season 4. This was the season after Jess had left Stars Hollow (and had dropped out of high school).  Jess would have been nineteen or so at that point in time. And  Luke  no longer would  have been his legal guardian.

 

Actually, I would dispute the idea that Jess ran away without any notice in Season 3 after his dismal school situation was revealed. Luke informed Jess that he would have to return to Stars Hollow High to repeat his year or leave.

JESS: I am not going back to school!

LUKE: So that's it?

JESS: Yeah, that's it.

LUKE: Then you gotta go.

 

I recall being surprised in the following episode when in talking to Lorelai, Luke appeared gobsmacked that Jess had left. I remember thinking, well you did tell him to.

A CAR, the most valuable and useful possession of a boy below the poverty line

 

With respect, how was Jess below the poverty line when he was in Stars Hollow? He was living with a respected and successful local businessman, had reasonable food and accommodation, access to books and media and free time for a personal life. His only responsibilities were attending school and working part-time in the diner (for which he was paid). His day to day life - as Luke expected it to be - didn't seem that much different from that of Lane or Dean.

It was Jess' choice to ditch school and work pretty much full-time at Walmart. Not anything he was compelled to do by economic circumstances.

Edited February 4, 2016 by dustylil

[txhorns79]

Actually, I would dispute the idea that Jess ran away without any notice in Season 3 after his dismal school situation was revealed. Luke informed Jess that he would have to return to Stars Hollow High to repeat his year or leave.

 

I think you could argue that Jess left rather than ran away, but I don't really follow how you could argue that Jess gave "notice" when my recollection was that he left without saying anything or otherwise letting Luke know he was going.  I mean maybe if Luke's ultimatum was "Return to school or leave without saying anything," then maybe you could argue that Jess was doing what Luke said, but otherwise, I don't understand how the issue of notice could be in dispute.   

[Melancholy]

There may be some confusion with the timeline. Luke took Jess' car in Season 4. This was the season after Jess had left Stars Hollow (and had dropped out of high school).  Jess would have been nineteen or so at that point in time. And  Luke  no longer would  have been his legal guardian.

 

No, as I understood it, Luke took Jess's car and hid it from him near the end of S3 to get Jess to go to school. However, it was too late and Jess wasn't graduating. Luke laid down the ultimatum and Jess left. I agree with txhorns that it's leaving without saying goodbye/running away. Maybe you'd prefer to believe that Luke and the writing was illogical by Luke being shocked that Jess left but frankly, I'm with the writing staff of GG. Luke may have laid down that ultimatum but he wasn't expecting Jess to take off the next day without any word or notice that he was leaving. No one was. The more typical response would be to try to negotiate more time there or come up with a destination and THEN leave but to always in every situation, say goodbye. When a parent/guardian had a child in their house for awhile and it's stable living situation but then the parent out of anger explodes that he's throwing said child out of the house, the child is still running away by just leaving without notice or a forwarding address. It's not just GG, there was a similar situation in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Luke wasn't at all unreasonable or ridiculous to be shocked that Jess left and how he left.

 

And Jess leaving without saying goodbye CREATED the conditions where the car wasn't just confiscated from yes, a boy who wasn't below the poverty line in his guardians's effort to make him go to school, but instead, stolen from a boy below the poverty line who'd completely given up on school and held by his former guardian. However, I still think that even the missing car in S4 was justified by what Luke was trying to do in S3 and how Jess just took off without any notice or future address to get the car back even if there was (seemingly) no shot at him finishing high school. 

Edited February 4, 2016 by Melancholy

[solotrek]

There may be some confusion with the timeline. Luke took Jess' car in Season 4. This was the season after Jess had left Stars Hollow (and had dropped out of high school).  Jess would have been nineteen or so at that point in time. And  Luke  no longer would  have been his legal guardian.

 

Luke took the car in season 3 after finding out that Jess was skipping school to go to Wal-Mart. He still had the car in season 4 when Liz came back and told Jess.

Edited February 4, 2016 by solotrek

[Taryn74]

Luke took the car in season 3 after finding out that Jess was skipping school to go to Wal-Mart. He still had the car in season 4 when Liz came back and told Jess.

 

Correct.  From Happy Birthday, Baby -

 

[Jess walks back into the diner]

JESS: Get off the phone!

LUKE: What?

JESS: I need the phone, get off the phone!

LUKE: What’s the matter?

JESS: Someone stole my car.

LUKE: Nicole, I’m gonna have to call you back. [hangs up] What do you mean somebody stole your car?

[Jess picks up the phone and starts dialing]

JESS: I parked it right around the corner and now it’s gone.

 

And then from A Family Matter -

 

LUKE: What about your son, huh? What about Jess, you talk to him lately? You notice he's not even here?

LIZ: Yeah, he sent me a letter. He's with his father.

LUKE: That's it? That's the extent of the contact?

LIZ: He's nineteen, you can't tell him anything.

LUKE: Well, you definitely can't if you don't try.

LIZ: I tried.

LUKE: No, I tried, you gave up.

LIZ: I thought you'd be better for him that I was.

LUKE: Oh yeah, I was great for him. I gave him a place to crash while he lied to me about everything, about going to school, about Wal-Mart - you know I stole his car?

LIZ: You what?

LUKE: In the middle of the night. I break into his car. I'm stealing it and hiding it in Dad's old garage.

LIZ: [chuckling] Why?

LUKE: Why? Because I'm crazy. Because I think now he'll have to go to school, now he'll have to graduate, now - [sigh] well, we saw how that all turned out, he went to live with the bum who abandoned him - that's how great a job I did. [he sighs deeply and takes a gulp of his orange juice]

LIZ: You tried.

LUKE: Well, I'm great at trying aren't I? [deep sigh]

[dustylil]

I happily stand corrected on the car theft.

 

While I was never a fan of Jess, I thought Luke handled the whole return to school or leave situation very badly. Jess was at that point reeling from seeing his father for the first time since he was an infant.  Even if Luke had every right to be angry at Jess for not keeping up his end of their bargain, there was no need to rush a discussion or a decision on the matter. To say nothing of only offering two options. Let the kid have a few days to come to terms with meeting Jimmy Mariano. Luke himself expected people to give him time "to process". Why couldn't he extend the same courtesy to his nephew?

 

Already upset after seeing Jimmy and learning how Luke tried to prevent father and son from meeting at all, Jess was in no condition to deal with ultimatums  from his uncle, especially on an issue where he would have to admit he was in the wrong. Clearly,ifLuke wanted him to leave, then he would go. From the point of view of an angry young man, it was the only thing to do.

 

I don't recall - but did Luke ever admit to Lorelai or anyone else that he had told Jess to either return to school or leave Stars Hollow?

[txhorns79]

Even if Luke had every right to be angry at Jess for not keeping up his end of their bargain, there was no need to rush a discussion or a decision on the matter.  Let the kid have a few days to come to terms with meeting Jimmy Mariano. Luke himself expected people to give him time "to process". Why couldn't he extend the same courtesy to his nephew? 

 

I'm confused.  When did Luke tell Jess that he had to immediately respond to the ultimatum? 

 

Already upset after seeing Jimmy and learning how Luke tried to prevent father and son from meeting at all, Jess was in no condition to deal with ultimatums  from his uncle, especially on an issue where he would have to admit he was in the wrong. Clearly,if Luke wanted him to leave, then he would go. From the point of view of an angry young man, it was the only thing to do.

 

It doesn't seem realistic to that particular situation to suggest that Luke should put the issue of Jess' massive deception and betrayal on hold so Jess can process his daddy issues.

 

 

To say nothing of only offering two options.

 

Why would it be Luke's responsibility to offer Jess multiple options?  As far as I can see, if Jess wanted to suggest an alternative plan to Luke (like his getting a GED), then he can suggest it and see if Luke will go for it.  Given Jess is the one who screwed up badly, it's odd that the onus is being placed on Luke to make his ultimatum as appealing to Jess as possible.      

Edited February 4, 2016 by txhorns79

[Melancholy]

I would say that Luke painted himself in an even worse light out of pure guilt and sadness. 

 

LUKE: Last night, this morning, I don't know. I went up there to get some money out of the safe and I noticed that all of his stuff was gone.

LORELAI: Oh, Luke, I'm so sorry.

LUKE: Yeah, well, forget it. I'm through with him. He's eighteen, he can do whatever the hell he wants. He's on his own, I'm through.

LORELAI: Luke.

LUKE: No, it's a relief. That kid was driving me crazy. Let him make his own way from now on. Let him see how far that smart mouth of his gets him without someone watching his back. I couldn't be more relieved. I'm just worried about Rory. I assume she doesn't know.

 

Even though Luke passes the anger/bargaining point in the same conversation, and gets to the more woobie depression that aroused Lorelai's complete compassion:

 

LUKE: I failed him.

LORELAI: You did not fail him. You supported him, you defended him, you gave him a chance, and if he chose not to take it, there's nothing more you could do.

 

Anyway, I don't know if I'd use the term "admit". I doubt Lorelai would have a problem with Luke's conduct- because people may not like ultimatums or Mondays but eventually, they come around or whatever she said.

 

I don't think Luke handled the ultimatum the best but I wouldn't say "very badly." Luke lost his temper and issued a "graduate or leave" ultimatum when you can see from the next ep, that Luke really didn't want things to end that way and he expected that Jess would stay as they both cooled down and they'd work something out (something meaning giving Jess another crack at senior year). Luke has a hot temper- but MAN was Jess baiting him in that conversation. I mean, aside from the yearlong deception and betrayal as txhorns puts it, IMO it was Jess at his cruelest:

 

LUKE: Yes, you are, because we had an agreement that if you were gonna live here, you were gonna go to school and you were gonna graduate.

JESS (as snidely as possible): Well, I didn't and I'm not.

 

--

LUKE: What's your life now? Wal-Mart full time, that's your great future? Gonna take the plunge and buy yourself a second blue vest?

JESS: Maybe, why not? What's wrong with it? I mean, it's no diner.

 

And I agree with txhorns79. Jess had daddy-drama in the last few hours. In a perfect world, Luke would be more sensitive about that. But still come on, Jess had daddy-drama in the last few hours but he spent the entire academic year breaking his agreement with Luke, making terrible life choices, and lying to Luke constantly. Luke was reacting to the last nine months of deception and betrayal before the last few hours of Jess's painful reunion with Jimmy. 

 

It never occurred to me before but Jess/Luke in Say Goodnight Gracie/Here Comes the Son can really be paralleled to Rory/Lorelai in A House is Not a Home. I'm far more forgiving of Luke than Lorelai in both instances because (1) Jess wasn't Luke's actual kid, (2) refusing to graduate high school is more disastrous than wanting time off from Yale, (3) Luke was directly reacting to Jess breaking and lying about that exact original ultimatum for months while Rory was just starting to spin out of control in the last few days, (4) Jess was FAR more of an asshole in that scene*, (5) I think Luke was still hoping for contact even after Jess ran away to Jimmy while Lorelai shut herself off from Rory once she moved into the poolhouse, and (6) I think Luke felt truly guilty for losing his temper while I think Lorelai was mainly self-righteous about her conduct. That all outweighs that Jess was in pain from Jimmy, and Rory was just in trouble of her own making and I don't think Mitchum's comments were enough to put a reasonable person in pain like Jimmy's abandonment and flaky appearance to dredge all of that up. 

 

* Like, I think you can can even compare "I mean, it's no DINER" with "College kids take breaks like this all the time. You didn’t go to college, so you don’t understand." but I think Jess was being intentionally cruel and Rory was being insensitive but not intentionally mean. 

Edited February 4, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

Luke also tried to prevent Jess from seeing Jimmy - and this was before Luke learned he was flunking out of school. That undoubtedly fuelled Jess' anger. At the very least, Luke could have told Jess that his father was in town. And that it was up to Jess to determine whether or not he wanted to meet with him. Luke could have advised against it, certainly. But surely Jess at eighteen should have had some say in the matter. Who knows, Jimmy may have come to make amends (unlikely since this is Gilmore Girls).

 

I'm puzzled - why shouldn't Jess have father issues and they be treated with some sensitivity? Luke, Christopher and Jason all had them and accommodation was made.

 

Also, I never could figure out why Luke was so determined that Jess go back to Stars Hollow High School. It was not that he himself had fond memories of the place and could  assumehis nephew would too. Nor were the GEDs unknown to him. One of his closest friends completed high school that way.

[Taryn74]

Agree with everything  you just said, Melancholy.

[txhorns79]

Luke also tried to prevent Jess from seeing Jimmy - and this was before Luke learned he was flunking out of school. That undoubtedly fuelled Jess' anger. At the very least, Luke could have told Jess that his father was in town. And that it was up to Jess to determine whether or not he wanted to meet with him. Luke could have advised against it, certainly. But surely Jess at eighteen should have had some say in the matter.

 

Given what we were told about Jimmy, and Jess' general instability during that period, it feels like it would be a pretty bad idea for Luke to allow Jimmy to see Jess, or simply leave it to Jess to figure it out.  You don't just spring someone's long vanished father on them, when they are not in the best place to begin with.    

 

Also, I never could figure out why Luke was so determined that Jess go back to Stars Hollow High School. It was not that he himself had fond memories of the place and could  assume his nephew would too. Nor were the GEDs unknown to him. One of his closest friends completed high school that way.     

 

I would guess Luke would see attending school as a way to help Jess socialize with his peers, assure him a routine and some stability, and perhaps even lead to college and a better future.  Also, it's what Jess agreed to do, so I can see why Luke would want to hold Jess to his promise.  Also, the onus is really on Jess if to suggest alternatives if he was unhappy with Luke's recommendation. 

[Melancholy]

Luke didn't know Jess was already flunked but Luke did think Jess was borderline and barely graduating and that these last few weeks would be critical for Jess to keep his GPA/attendance up to make it over the finish line. 

 

LUKE: Give you a break? I am trying to keep this kid from falling off the face of the Earth. I'm trying to get him through school. I'm trying to give him a future. And I gotta be totally honest with you, Jimmy - I am not doing too well.

JIMMY: No?

LUKE: No, and the last thing he needs is a special appearance by his father who can't be here for any good reason.

 

Luke didn't say it- but IMO, I think that Luke would have hidden Jimmy from Jess until Jess graduated. If Jess graduated, I really, really, REALLY think that Luke would have told Jess about Jimmy and offered to look for his dad together. However, I get that doesn't have a firm basis in canon. However, I completely get Luke believing that Jess is so borderline and so close to graduation that he wants to keep everything as stable and stress-free as possible for Jess in the next several weeks to get Jess over that finish line. Especially given the effort that Luke already put in to try to make Jess a high school graduate, not the least of which was secretly confiscating the car.

 

I don't even get the comparison of Jess in this instance and Chris/Luke/Jason. They're all completely different. I can't even begin to compare like, Lorelai not yelling at Chris for being a terrible father as much he deserves for a big complicated soup of reasons that include how they came from the same 'hood so Lorelai empathizes with his Straub issues with this Luke/Jess instance. Or the Luke/Jess instance with Richard deciding to empathize with Jason's father-issues largely because it was convenient for Richard's business and own grudge against Lloyd (but then, violently dropping all empathy when Jason's daddy-issues threatened to negatively impact Richard's fortune and business.) Or, lol, Emily having no time for Jason's daddy-issues AND BEING RIGHT ALL ALONG ON EVERY LEVEL, BOTH BUSINESS AND MORAL. 

 

At any rate, Luke did empathize with Jess's daddy issues. Luke opened up his home and took on this immense responsibility to be a guardian to a really troubled, messed up kid and persistently tried shielding Jess from hurt or even the consequences of Jess's own choices. And it was largely because Luke felt deep sympathy that Jess's parents sucked so much, including Luke's own sister but also Jimmy who Luke enjoyed blaming more. If I was handing out demerits for lack of empathy for Jess, Luke is the ABSOLUTE LAST person that I'd blame. But yeah, I'd be happy to throw some anger at the townies and Lorelai over this issue...

Edited February 4, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

I never suggested that Jess' father issues were the same as those of the adult men that were mentioned. Just that he was as entitled to have them as they were. Perhaps more so, given his age.

My sense from some earlier posts was that because Jimmy Mariano had just suddenly appeared and the high school issue was ongoing, Jess' anger and upset were not justified.

 

I must say it pains me mightily to defend Jess. Almost as much as on those rare occasions when I back Emily.

[txhorns79]

I'm puzzled - why shouldn't Jess have father issues and they be treated with some sensitivity? Luke, Christopher and Jason all had them and accommodation was made.

 

 

I never suggested that Jess' father issues were the same as those of the adult men that were mentioned. Just that he was as entitled to have them as they were. Perhaps more so, given his age.

 

It sounds like you were suggesting they were all similar in your previous posts.  Otherwise, why bring all those characters up if no comparison was actually meant?

[JayInChicago]

I do think though there is some merit to Jess's later mean spirited but technically sort of accurate monologue to Luke about him forcefully helping people in ways they don't want--ala Liz and Tj's wedding (the "handful of Barbie" episode). Jimmy's timing was awful but Luke went overboard intimidating Jimmy into leaving town. When someone has those sorts of needs to figure out their birth father they should get answers even if the answers are "he's a dead end for you, Luke is more your father figure than anyone"

That said, I don't think the think the concept of "closure" was high on Luke's list.

[txhorns79]

When someone has those sorts of needs to figure out their birth father they should get answers even if the answers are "he's a dead end for you, Luke is more your father figure than anyone"

 

I think it really depends on the person and whether they can handle that kind of thing.  I don't think Jess was in a place where he could have handled it. 

[Melancholy]

Oh, I absolutely think Jess was entitled to his feelings of hurt and anger (not so much turning that hurt into an attack on Luke). I agree that Jess was FAR more entitled to his daddy-issues than Luke/Jason/Chris because Jess was still a child.* 

 

Unlike you, I *like* Jess, including in his rebellious years. His adolescent fuck-ups are wrong, but very forgivable to me because his parents didn't give him an acceptable childhood. However, that's different from calling out Luke for handling the situation "very badly" or getting upset at Luke for holding onto the stated consequence their agreement that Jess had been deceitfully breaking for the entire academic year.

 

*Plus, I dunno, I thought Floyd and Straub were harsh men but I think it's entirely possible that they were actually pretty OK to their sons but Chris and Jason were spoiled brats and perhaps, Floyd's/Straub's "failure" of parenting is that they were too permissive as they handed their sons every luxury and opportunity. Straub was quick to make Chris's teen pregnancy and Princeton failure into everyone's fault but Chris's instead of turning some of that anger into discipline of his own son. For a sharp man, Straub naively was in a rush to believe that Chris was succeeding in California. Floyd personally groomed Jason to be handed a fabulously high paying, prestigious job. Chris and Jason were definitely spoiled.

 

I put Luke's daddy issues in a different category- Luke's main issue is that he was a lot like his dad and felt immense responsibility to his dad and his legacy and still felt tremendous grief years after the dad's death because they were so close. Those are "Daddy-issues" that I really respect and sympathize with. I don't even know whether to call them Daddy-issues- isn't it just deeply loving and grieving a deceased parent? I bet when Lorelai passes away, no matter how old she gets to be, Rory will absolutely fall apart with grief ala Richard at Trix's funeral and she'll probably have the equivalent of a Dark Day or attachment to a possession of Lorelai's years after the death. It's not weird. 

Edited February 4, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

Hmm, and I thought this was the place to express unpopular opinions.

that's different from calling out Luke for handling the situation "very badly" or getting upset at Luke for holding onto the stated consequence their agreement that Jess had been deceitfully breaking for the entire academic year

 

In any event, in my earlier post  I was questioning the timing of Luke challenging Jess on his broken promises. I did not say that he was not entitled to be angry at the deception. If it had been a matter of hours or days before some final decision had to be made regarding Jess' further education, then it was unfortunate but understandable. But the new school year was months away. There was plenty of time in the weeks and months ahead for discussions - and ultimatums, if necessary.

[themoon411]

I agree, I think jess was in his own category  when it came to parental issues. Lorelie, jason, Logan etc, their issues came from the parents caring too much. Which can be annoying and stifling, but the emotional needs are met. And while rory's dad was a dead beat, her mom went out of the way to make her feel loved.

Jess never got that nurture. His parental figures never cared about him, and when he messed up I imagine second chances weren't usually an option. I can see a stressed out liz yelling, why did I ever have you, and we all know she sent him away. Yes luke was a good guardian, but after all the mistrust jess had for adults, why should he trust luke. It's like the foster care system. The new parents think a little kindness is enough to cure years of abuse and neglect,  when in reality it would take years of kindness to even begin to undue the damage done to jess. Neither loralie nor luke could empathise with jess 's issues because they grew up with loving parents.

Also, I wish the show focused more on the fact that Loralies pregnancy was the result of lack of birth control. Instead of worrying that rory was the good kid, she should have offered her a judgement free way to have access to contraceptives. I think that would have been a better patenting move instead of hoping that her daughter would remain pure longer....

[txhorns79]

Also, I wish the show focused more on the fact that Loralies pregnancy was the result of lack of birth control. Instead of worrying that rory was the good kid, she should have offered her a judgement free way to have access to contraceptives. I think that would have been a better patenting move instead of hoping that her daughter would remain pure longer....

 

I think during the first season when Rory accidentally stays out all night with Dean, Lorelai tells her that she is going on the pill.  Though I don't recall it ever being mentioned again. 

 

 

If it had been a matter of hours or days before some final decision had to be made regarding Jess' further education, then it was unfortunate but understandable. But the new school year was months away. There was plenty of time in the weeks and months ahead for discussions - and ultimatums, if necessary. 

 

If summer school was coming up, it really wasn't a discussion to be tabled.  Though I honestly can't imagine a scenario where a parent/guardian confronted with that situation would allow it to fester for weeks or months without resolution or in an endless loop of discussions.  The lies and betrayal would just be too deep, and it would feel rather absurd after a while. 

[Melancholy]

Hmm, and I thought this was the place to express unpopular opinions.

 

I hear that- but this thread is 44 pages of debating UOs. I think everyone respects UOs and likes to hear them- but the debate keeps this forum lively. 

 

I agree, I think jess was in his own category  when it came to parental issues. Lorelie, jason, Logan etc, their issues came from the parents caring too much. Which can be annoying and stifling, but the emotional needs are met. And while rory's dad was a dead beat, her mom went out of the way to make her feel loved.

Jess never got that nurture. His parental figures never cared about him, and when he messed up I imagine second chances weren't usually an option. I can see a stressed out liz yelling, why did I ever have you, and we all know she sent him away. Yes luke was a good guardian, but after all the mistrust jess had for adults, why should he trust luke. It's like the foster care system. The new parents think a little kindness is enough to cure years of abuse and neglect,  when in reality it would take years of kindness to even begin to undue the damage done to jess. Neither loralie nor luke could empathise with jess 's issues because they grew up with loving parents.

 

Agreed. Paris also suffered from a total lack of love and nurturing from both of her parents, and her mother seemed really mean. However, it's still easier to be unloved child in a wealthy home where your parents can buy every resource, including nurturing from a nanny and life coach, and there's still plenty of structure and responsibility on the parent's part to convey a successful life path to the child. To rank things, Rory has confidence that Lorelai would knock down doors looking for her and any of her friends if she went missing, Paris has confidence that her mother would send/hire someone to do it, Jess has no confidence that Liz would go looking for him or even whether she'd live it up if he was out of her hair. 

 

LOL, I can't imagine Liz NOT bitching to Jess about how his birth was such a bad choice and she coulda have done so much more if she wasn't saddled with him. I see her doing it at two speeds- in her pre-series angry drugged out more sinister mode and her S4-7 cutsie-wootsie but still unbelievably selfish tendency where she just loved to blab about her misspent youth (and middle age) by way of congratulating herself for her potential and any little stride that she makes. 

 

I think during the first season when Rory accidentally stays out all night with Dean, Lorelai tells her that she is going on the pill.  Though I don't recall it ever being mentioned again. 

 

Yes- I've always wondered about this. I could see Lorelai not going through with getting the pill because it was a pretty rare burst of anger at Rory. Or I could see that Lorelai did set up Rory with a prescription for birth control but obviously, they didn't really talk about it and Lorelai trusted that Rory was taking and re-filling her meds but Lorelai still wanted Rory to wait because sex is such a big emotional step and Lorelai does have her own baggage about having sex at 16-17 with Dean and almost especially 18 with Jess because it's too young/not with the right guy. 

Edited February 4, 2016 by Melancholy

[amensisterfriend]

LOL, I can't imagine Liz NOT bitching to Jess about how his birth was such a bad choice and she coulda have done so much more if she wasn't saddled with him. I see her doing it at two speeds- in her pre-series angry drugged out more sinister mode and her S4-7 cutsie-wootsie but still unbelievably selfish tendency where she just loved to blab about her misspent youth (and middle age) by way of congratulating herself for her potential and any little stride that she makes.

 

God yes. I just can't even coherently express how much I dislike Liz. It's like the writers peeked at my list of ultimate pet peeves and decided to torture me with the quintessential embodiment of them for the last 3-4 seasons of the show. They even happened to cast one of the few actresses who I pretty much automatically dislike every time she pops up on screen. Just to make this even more unpopular: in the unofficial battle of the show's worst moms, I like Liz even less than Anna. I'm not in ANY way defending Anna or her decision not to tell Luke that he had a child, but if someone put a gun to my head and told me I had to spend the weekend locked up with either Liz or Anna...well, I'd probably consider allowing them to pull the trigger and out me out of my misery ;) But once I came to my senses, I'd pick Anna by sad default. And in many ways the worst part of her is one that Melancholy alluded to---that everyone is supposed to adore her and applaud the fact that she's such an amazing person now, while she's actually STILL selfish and deluded and ridiculously entitled and annoying. She's just sober and more quasi-'adorable' about her ridiculousness now. She still takes shameless advantage of Luke. She still has no problem dumping her hideously named offspring with him while he's working so she can 'chill out' without so much as actually ASKING him if it's okay. Did she even express anything approaching contrition regarding Jess more than once or twice? (She may have, by the way. I fast forward most of her scenes, so I'm honestly not sure!) At least her insufferable spouse is canonically acknowledged as irritating---Liz is supposed to be this adorable 'free spirit' who's totally redeemed herself without us ever seeing her work to earn that. Every misstep is laughed off and automatically excused, and she's even presented as possessing a special brand of wisdom that others would be well-advised to heed. I know that many here like Liz, and in theory I'm actually hugely in favor of Luke having family/friends (and therefore other scenes and storylines) that are separate from Lorelai, but Liz is like the human equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for me. And now I have to go look up whether she's confirmed for the revival so that I can prepare myself ;)  

[dustylil]

Calm yourself, asf, calm yourself. I am pretty sure that it is not in the least likely that your nightmare (and mine) will be visiting a mythical small Connecticut town anytime soon.

As to being locked up with either Liz or Anna, I'd take Anna as well. I'd start off the conversation in a calm, courteous manner with "Are you out of your goddam mind" and take it from there. I knew a couple of women who pulled similar stunts (it was the early/mid eighties) and I never had the chance to offer them my unasked for opinion on their choices.

Did she even express anything approaching contrition regarding Jess more than once or twice

Nope. Not that I recall. I do remember her being puzzled that Jess seemed to have a grudge against her - but she had no idea as to why.

 

I always had the sense that Rory was knowledgeable about and comfortable with birth control. In that cringe-inducing  scene between Lorelai and Rory (while Dean is scuttling away), Rory tries to get her mother to see the positive side of recent events, by saying

It's awful for you to find out like this, I know, but everything's okay. I'm okay, and we were, you know, safe - so all those Trojan Man jokes all these years really apparently stuck.

 

I  would have thought a year at college would provide additional information and pguidance.

 

Of course, knowing your mother was knocked up at fifteen would also likely be an influencing factor on your views of birth control.

[Melancholy]

Anna's a strange one. Her dealings with Luke were the only repulsive thing about her. Other than that, she was practically Lorelai 2.0- raising a happy, successful child who adored her, an amiable store owner with Lorelai who really DID have adorable one-of-a-kind pieces, heck, a more dutiful and caring daughter to her own mother who'd move across the country to care for her mother when she was ailing. However, most of her story was her dealing wth Luke- and it was so fucked up that I have to imagine that Anna brings that kind of control-freak, dishonest, bitchiness to other parts of her life. 

 

No, Liz expressed zero contrition over how things went down with Jess. Like. this scene where the only one expressing regret and feeling contrition over failing Jess was....Luke.

 

LUKE: What come on, Liz? I mean, you're selling earrings in a booth and you're hooked up with another winner.

LIZ: You don't even know him.

LUKE: What about your son, huh? What about Jess, you talk to him lately? You notice he's not even here?

LIZ: Yeah, he sent me a letter. He's with his father.

LUKE: That's it? That's the extent of the contact?

LIZ: He's nineteen, you can't tell him anything.

LUKE: Well, you definitely can't if you don't try.

LIZ: I tried.

LUKE: No, I tried, you gave up.

LIZ: I thought you'd be better for him that I was.

LUKE: Oh yeah, I was great for him. I gave him a place to crash while he lied to me about everything, about going to school, about Wal-Mart - you know I stole his car?

LIZ: You what?

LUKE: In the middle of the night. I break into his car. I'm stealing it and hiding it in Dad's old garage.

LIZ: [chuckling] Why?

LUKE: Why? Because I'm crazy. Because I think now he'll have to go to school, now he'll have to graduate, now - [sigh] well, we saw how that all turned out, he went to live with the bum who abandoned him - that's how great a job I did. [he sighs deeply and takes a gulp of his orange juice]

LIZ: You tried.

LUKE: Well, I'm great at trying aren't I? [deep sigh]

LIZ: Well, I know you have a lot of work to do, so I'm gonna go. [she rises and starts to leave]

Edited February 5, 2016 by Melancholy

[readster]

Oh I know, and then Liz calls Jess and he comes to steal his POS car back. I found that just so ridiculous in so many ways. Even more that Jess opened communication between her after finding out living with his dad "didn't work out" according to Liz. More like AS-P thought the spin off series was in the bag from the set building to the cast and then the WB said: "You know, no, we don't want to shelve out the money. I mean, we have to focus on 7th Heaven more even though it is now #4 of our shows." Then AS-P through a hissy fit and decided to bring Liz on the show, which the ultimate goal was to give a reason to bring Milo back to the show briefly despite his various TV shows getting just 9 episode light up from the Brandford Diaries to that one show that never even aired even though Milo said after doing episode 2, he never thought the show would last. Yeah, I take Anna over Liz any day but seriously, these women took such advantage of Luke and he sadly nodded his head and go: "OK". 

[FictionLover]

Yeah, I take Anna over Liz any day but seriously, these women took such advantage of Luke and he sadly nodded his head and go: "OK".

As much I really like Luke (with the exception of the later part of season 6) he really wasn't a strong man as it seemed they wanted to portray him. Lorelai, as much as I love her too, totally took advantage of him. He almost got the courage to tell Lorelai how he felt about her because Rachel told him to. He goes on a cruse when he really doesn't want to because Lorelai told him to. When L&L got together he ran when the going got tough and didn't go back until another woman (Emily)told him to. Anna walked all over him and he rolled over submissively instead of righting the wrong she did to him. It would sometimes drive me crazy that he was so weak when it came to women.

[txhorns79]

As much I really like Luke (with the exception of the later part of season 6) he really wasn't a strong man as it seemed they wanted to portray him.

 

He was extremely passive at times, particularly with Anna.  Though I think his entire reaction to her and her general insanity made me crazy. 

[readster]

Something that also drove me crazy about Luke's character is how he would roll over to groups or people that wouldn't stop pestering him about stuff. I remember when the law firm that Nicole kept showing up saying that Luke had to want something from Nicole when the divorce was originally going to happen. He finally just gave them an answer so they would leave him alone and realized he gotten himself into bigger trouble as a result. Or how Taylor made it is his mission to always be up to some crazy idea that kept involving Luke. As much as Luke fought him on it, he still ended up being influenced by the town or even Lorelai and Rory at two points to just do it. Drove me insane. If I would have been Luke I would have had a sign on his diner saying: "Please just come in for good food and stop dragging me into crap that always backfires on me." THIS MEANS YOU TAYLOR AND KIRK!" "P.S. Ms. Patty, don't make me add you to the above line!" 

[Melancholy]

Luke was supposed to be summed up, "Very masculine burly hot-tempered man who's actually a total angelic softie underneath."

 

(Luke is "Looks like he could kill you, but is actually a cinnamon roll" according to the famous Tumblr meme. Paris is "Looks like a cinnamon roll but could actually kill you", Rory is "Looks like a cinnamon roll and is actually a cinnamon roll", Emily is "Looks like she can kill you and can actually kill you", and Lorelai is "sinnamon roll.")

 

However a bunch of times, I thought Luke well crossed over the line between "softie" into "doormat." IMO, him pacifying Anna (and then, actually hurting Lorelai in Luke's rush to not hurt or confront anyone) was the worst. See also Luke jumping to Emily's imperious errand-boy commands when he went to pay Lorelai a hospital call when Richard had a heart attack in S7. 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Melancholy

[Iseut]

Gotta give an Amen Sister Friend to amensisterfriend! Liz is awful.

 

In addition to being just a shitty character in general (abandoning her son, taking advantage of Luke, etc.), the dialogue written for her was just the absolute worst, to the point where I felt sorry for the actress for having to deliver it. One of my biggest pet peeves in when characters reveal their relationships through clunky expository dialogue, and Liz was forced to call Luke "big brother" in pretty much every single episode. Siblings don't do that. They call each other by name. Or a nickname. Or an insult. In most cases, we could have figured out she was his sister by context. Show, don't tell, AS-P.

 

And when she met Lorelai and after a long conversation, she's all "Oh, you're The Wiiiiife!" So, Liz knows that Big Brother got married, but doesn't know anything about The Wife, or even her name? Or couldn't say, "Oh, you're Nicole!" Ugh.

 

But the worst. "You're going to make someone a good wife to some lucky man someday. Or a good sister-in-law to some lucky girl." Gah, the anvil. I have been hit by a giant anvil and I am now dead so I don't know who is typing this next part. WHO SAYS THAT?!? NOBODY SAYS THAT! Ohhhhh, yes, Liz is the deceptively sage free spirit who has figured out that Luke and Lorelai are perfect for each other. WE. GET. IT. Gah. 

 

[breathing into a paper bag] Got a little off topic there. I guess my UO in this post would be that AS-P can be a very, very shitty writer. Even though we all love her for bringing us to this place and consider a lot of the GG writing to be better than a lot of other TV.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Iseut

[Melancholy]

Gotta give an Amen Sister Friend to amensisterfriend! Liz is awful.

 

In addition to being just a shitty character in general (abandoning her son, taking advantage of Luke, etc.), the dialogue written for her was just the absolute worst, to the point where I felt sorry for the actress for having to deliver it. One of my biggest pet peeves in when characters reveal their relationships through clunky expository dialogue, and Liz was forced to call Luke "big brother" in pretty much every single episode. Siblings don't do that. They call each other by name. Or a nickname. Or an insult. In most cases, we could have figured out she was his sister by context. Show, don't tell, AS-P.

 

And when she met Lorelai and after a long conversation, she's all "Oh, you're The Wiiiiife!" So, Liz knows that Big Brother got married, but doesn't know anything about The Wife, or even her name? Or couldn't say, "Oh, you're Nicole!" Ugh.

 

But the worst. "You're going to make someone a good wife to some lucky man someday. Or a good sister-in-law to some lucky girl." Gah, the anvil. I have been hit by a giant anvil and I am now dead so I don't know who is typing this next part. WHO SAYS THAT?!? NOBODY SAYS THAT! Ohhhhh, yes, Liz is the deceptively sage free spirit who has figured out that Luke and Lorelai are perfect for each other. WE. GET. IT. Gah. 

 

[breathing into a paper bag] Got a little off topic there. I guess my UO in this post would be that AS-P can be a very, very shitty writer. Even though we all love her for bringing us to this place and consider a lot of the GG writing to be better than a lot of other TV.

 

That was a work of art, lseut! I'm standing up and cheering. 

[dustylil]

In addition to being just a shitty character in general (abandoning her son, taking advantage of Luke, etc

 

And we must not forget her  unwavering support of Luke when he decided not to inform Lorelai of the arrival of April in his life. After all, her own devotion to children, marriage and family life made her the go-to person for advice and guidance on such a matter.

 

I entirely agree that Luke was a bit of a cream puff when it came to actually dealing with adversaries (Taylor, Nicole's lawyers, Anna). What astonished me was that he had nothing negative to say about Anna - even in private to his fiancée. And this was a man who would rant and rave at or about pretty much everybody.  

[Melancholy]

What astonished me was that he had nothing negative to say about Anna - even in private to his fiancée. And this was a man who would rant and rave at or about pretty much everybody.  

 

I can only explain that Anna had special status for Luke because she was the mother of his child and Luke's instinct to try to repair his relationship with April was to be unbelievably conciliatory to Anna to hope at being granted the favor of time with his own child. We'll see what happens in the revival- I'm guessing that after Luke's custody rights were codified and he no longer needed Anna's permission, he'll be much more free about his issues with Anna. Although still restrained- I think it's a thing of Luke's to be extra courteous of someone pointedly occupying THE MOTHER role in his life, like Anna or his almost saintly forbearance with Emily or how he propped up Liz's role as the mother as much as possible with Jess (lying about her not wanting to see Jess during the holidays, pushing Jess to be in her wedding ceremony). Maybe it's because his own mother died when he was young. 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Melancholy

[Taryn74]

Liz was forced to call Luke "big brother" in pretty much every single episode. Siblings don't do that. They call each other by name. Or a nickname. 

 

I always thought Big Brother was her nickname (or pet name, if you will) for him.  Much like I call my daughter Baby Girl most of the time.  It's not to remind her that she's my daughter LOL.  It's just one of my names for her.

 

Sally calls Charlie Brown "Big Brother" and I've fanwanked that Liz & Luke used to watch the Peanuts specials when they were young and she picked it up from that.  It makes me happy.

[dustylil]

Or given that he was often tasked with keeping an eye on her, she called him Big Brother in an Orwellian sense.

[txhorns79]

I always thought Big Brother was her nickname (or pet name, if you will) for him.

 

I would agree with this.  It really wouldn't make sense given the way it was used by her in the series that it was supposed to have ominous undertones. 

[Smad]

I entirely agree that Luke was a bit of a cream puff when it came to actually dealing with adversaries (Taylor, Nicole's lawyers, Anna). What astonished me was that he had nothing negative to say about Anna - even in private to his fiancée. And this was a man who would rant and rave at or about pretty much everybody.  

Of course he wouldn't. Saying something bad about Anna would be saying something bad to Sherilyn Fenn. ASP wouldn't ruin her love affair with her favorites now would she? Plus it would really screw up ASPs character assasination plans for that Season if anyone actually acted in character. Can't have that. And since she is basically Lorelai and Lorelai rocks....how dare you imply she isn't anything other than perfect.