One: Jace Corso/Derrick Moss (Marc Bendavid)

[krimimimi]

2 hours ago, FurryFury said:

I think with Three it was more character development/better writing that changed people's opinions around (although I liked him from the start because he was a total Jayne expy and I freakin' LOVED Jayne). One... well, he's controversial, to say the least. And both writing and acting are at fault. Still, my gut feeling says it might have been planned, or even that he's not actually dead anyway.

I think you're right about the writing (and of course the acting). But the scripts really did One no favors, despite giving him the hero treatment. (Somehow that only made it worse.) Given he was the only actor with a double (physical*) role, I'd assume this death was planned, too. I really hope that he stays dead, though, and not just for mean ol' meanie reasons.

Star Trek TOS had a bad habit of killing off anyone we'd never seen before (BFD) while the heroes were blessed with some serious plot armor. ST TNG did something pretty remarkable when they killed off a member of their core crew mid season one, and particularly for no good reason, just proving life is nasty, brutish and meanly short.

"Dark Matter" throws up all kinds of problems for viewers with its murderous "heroes." Even good guy One was shooting corporation people in the pilot who were "just doing their jobs." (Of course the job description was "murderous asshole," but still...) If you want to make that somehow okay for the majority of viewers to still root for them, then it helps if they aren't just murderers, but rather that life is universally cheap in their world. We need to know that it really is "us or them," or they are no better than the psychopaths they (mostly) used to be, and I think a lot of viewers could have problems rooting for a merry band of psychos. Morally grey characters are something else, though.

One's death makes the stakes more real and, at least for me, serves to legitimize (to some extent) their lethal actions. Something along the lines of: they live in a kill or be killed world; if I'd like to see them survive to return next week, then I will have to accept that they'll leave some bodies in their wake. Otherwise I may as well watch the A-team, where all the bad guys miraculously survive.

 

* If we count the Numbers vs. original flavor characters, flashbacks etc. pretty much everyone has at least a double role, but MBD was the only one where that involved a separate physical being.

[MissLucas]

20 minutes ago, krimimimi said:

Star Trek TOS had a bad habit of killing off anyone we'd never seen before (BFD) while the heroes were blessed with some serious plot armor. ST TNG did something pretty remarkable when they killed off a member of their core crew mid season one, and particularly for no good reason, just proving life is nasty, brutish and meanly short.

Their hand was forced as the actress wanted (literally) off the ship.

[krimimimi]

1 minute ago, MissLucas said:

Their hand was forced as the actress wanted (literally) off the ship.

As with the B5 example you gave above, the mark of a good storyteller is *how* you deal with the BTS stuff. She could have fallen in lurve with a space prince and gone off to a happily ever after, but they went with something that made a lot of viewers take note instead.

As a show runner, you can't change the RL stuff, but you can decide how to let it chew into your show (a few actress' pregnancies immediately spring to mind. *shudder*).

[MissLucas]

Well Tasha's death was met with quite some controversy although I thought it was handled quite well - as you said it was used to illustrate the stakes of space exploration. Of course the rest of the crew was protected by plot armor (no matter how fervently people wanted Wesley to meet with another piece of deadly black glop).

My point is simply that I don't think One was killed because of external reasons (actor wanting off the show, fandom hatred) - his death was always part of the plan. And I'm beginning to suspect that was the  reason why the writing for his character was let's say sub-optimal: he was always just a place-holder for another character. I like the idea of the crew suddenly faced with Corso on board and somehow being forced to cooperate with him (as opposed to simply kill him). It could open the door for some pretty interesting dynamics - at least for a while.

[Wouter]

2 hours ago, krimimimi said:

"Dark Matter" throws up all kinds of problems for viewers with its murderous "heroes." Even good guy One was shooting corporation people in the pilot who were "just doing their jobs." (Of course the job description was "murderous asshole," but still...) If you want to make that somehow okay for the majority of viewers to still root for them, then it helps if they aren't just murderers, but rather that life is universally cheap in their world. We need to know that it really is "us or them," or they are no better than the psychopaths they (mostly) used to be, and I think a lot of viewers could have problems rooting for a merry band of psychos. Morally grey characters are something else, though.

I would add to that that One was also on board with stealing the device from Traugott (a lot of guards got killed in that one, allthough all or most of them by either the other mercenaries or by Four and his swords) and that his background as a supposed genius in company management wasn't exactly endearing. Derrick's Moss official bio (from the Wikipedia equivalent in DM) stated this: "Moss has a reputation of being a tyrannical, but efficient leader, as he routinely fires the bottom 10% of his workers, while rewarding the top 20% with promotions, bonuses and stock options.".

If Moss really fired "the bottom 10% of his workers" routinely, that would be a very shitty boss to work for. Not at all consistent with the personality of One on the show; if he would "routinely drop the bottom 10% of the Raza crew" he would have needed to space himself.

Arguably, a company that routinely fires so many for performance reasons would invite intense competition, mistrust and backstabbing amongst its employees (as well as constant manipulation of whatever means are used to measure who is "bottom" and who is "top") so I very much doubt this to be the mark of a genius.

There was always a suggestion that he wasn't really running the company (being content to do his charity work instead) and the official bio is misleading. I hope we'll get follow up on that once his killers get tracked down and the motives exposed.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Wouter

[sjohnson]

And the piece de resistance would be the discovery that Moss' charity work was always disguised political bribes. Really just the premise of a billionaire is a premise for a true villain. The only one worse is the vile monarchist Ryo. 

I have been dwelling on how important non-personal knowledge is. Boone is pretty indistinguishable from his original self because he, as we now know, due to his upbringing, doesn't really have a handle on sophisticated notions of right and wrong. Or maybe crude ones either. Derrick Moss, however monstrous his buisness practices were, was thoroughly schooled in morals and manners, if only to swindle all the more efficiently. His memory goes, One relies on his impersonal knowledge of right and wrong...and becomes the most opposite to his true billionaire self. Ryo knows a life of privilege and crazed ideology about kings and crap like that, so absent his memories, he's still evil. Two may not remember Rebecca or Portia Lin, but she knows the universe as suffering and being an experiment, so she wants to be Two and learn more. Six as a cop knows some people exercise the power of life and death with impunity, so he guns down his only real friend without a qualm. 

Five/Emily? Well Five/Emily is supposed to want a family but she certainly doesn't need one, she just needs a killing machine like Android. As to where this obsessive need comes from, I can only conclude that as the one with the most fragments of memories, she has the most of her original personality. 

[sjohnson]

4 hours ago, krimimimi said:

 But the scripts really did One no favors, despite giving him the hero treatment....

We need to know that it really is "us or them," or they are no better than the psychopaths they (mostly) used to be, and I think a lot of viewers could have problems rooting for a merry band of psychos. Morally grey characters are something else, though.

Had to quote for a disagreement and an agreement. 

The hero treatment means making someone cool and badass and a winner. Three gets the hero treatment, One got the antihero treatment, which is not cool, not impressive and a loser. Hank Schrader on Breaking Bad as the antihero and Walt was the hero. (And Jess was the antivillain.) 

And I strongly agree that lots can't root for a merry band of psychos. That's why I'm missing One. They could make them rebels with a cause, but Hollywood has a problem with revolutionary violence.

[atomationage]

One was doing fine in all the battles and fights in season one until he met the real Jace Corso.  Then they made him weaker, mostly interested in sex, and not equal to big bad Three.  In all the flashbacks in Five's memory bank, Two and Three are pure evil.   One and Six are reasonable, and Four ultimately comes down on the side of One, Five and Six.  They've redeemed Two with trial by Wheaton.  With Three, they just keep trying to make him look better by showing more backstories.  It doesn't work on me.

Edited July 26, 2016 by atomationage

[Wouter]

One was still doing fine in battle when the Raza gang went to free Four from the Zairon guards (and the locals on whatever planet it was). Probably more than could be expected from a disguised CEO?

[Wryly]

It always bugged me that One had no niche skills even though every other crew member did. It would've been nice if they'd given him something to mitigate the featureless vanilla that was his skill set. A talent for reading people, brokering deals, or playing hardball, perhaps. He was the CEO of a multi-trillion dollar company.

But nope. Nada. No specialized talents.

[SimoneS]

On 7/26/2016 at 5:27 PM, Wryly said:

But nope. Nada. No specialized talents.

Which makes One exactly what he was, the scion of a wealthy family. Most of those people don't spend time developing any special skills or abilities to make a living or to survive because everything is handed to them on a plate. I think it is a credit to One that he was such a compassion person despite growing up with all that wealth. Also, he could have hired someone to investigate his wife's murder, instead he risked his life and gave up his identity to do it himself. 

Edited July 27, 2016 by SimoneS

[call me ishmael]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Which makes One exactly what he was, he scion of a wealthy family. Most of those people don't spend time developing any special skills or abilities to make a living or to survive because everything is handed to them on a plate. I think it is a credit to One that he was such a compassion person despite growing up with all that wealth. Also, he could have hired someone to investigate his wife's murder, instead he risked his life and gave up his identity to do it himself. 

Of course do we really know that that was what he was doing?  I've always assumed that but now that I am thinking about it, it isn't like he ever regained his memories. So how can we be sure?  Or am I forgetting a scene?

Edited July 27, 2016 by call me ishmael
grammar matters

[MissLucas]

I've always struggled with that revenge plan. The One we saw may have had the resources to pull it off (finding the murderer of his wife on the Raza, knowing that Jace Corso was hired for a job on the Raza, getting the plastic surgery necessary to pass off as Jace Corso) but did he really think he could take on the whole crew? Or that he could get away with murdering one of the crew and survive?

IIRC One sort of jumped to the conclusion that murdering Three had been his goal all along. But maybe he was not after Three in order to kill him but rather in order to find out who hired him? That would make more sense although it implies that 'good' guy Moss was willing to do some pretty bad stuff in order to gain the crew's and especially Three's trust.

[atomationage]

On 7/23/2016 at 4:23 PM, MissLucas said:

Back in season one I mentioned that a lot about One is reminiscent of Crichton in Farscape

Joseph Mallozi said that One was inspired by John Crichton from Farscape, see Comparisons To Other Shows thread.

I like Ben Browder better, and I think Farscape was a better show, but I thought Marc Bendavid did a good job here, and it was a mistake to kill off both of his characters,  IMO, the show seems to be floundering, and I don't expect them to get another season.

Edited July 31, 2016 by atomationage

[MissLucas]

I have to disagree - I find the show much improved this season and I enjoy it a lot more. That has nothing to do with killing off One btw. It's more that the show is finally investing more in world-building and moving several plots along. Last season often felt claustrophobic and stalling though in hindsight much of that was just laying out narrative groundwork.

One might be gone for good but I'm still not convinced Marc Bendavid is without a job.  Some people thought One killed in the hotel was a clone but that would not have worked as a clone of One would have looked differently. Jace Corso on the other hand could have used a clone to get the Raza crew off his back. For a murderous psychopath everybody was afraid of he was fairly easy to find and finish - just saying.

[Wryly]

17 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I have to disagree - I find the show much improved this season and I enjoy it a lot more. That has nothing to do with killing off One btw. It's more that the show is finally investing more in world-building and moving several plots along. Last season often felt claustrophobic and stalling though in hindsight much of that was just laying out narrative groundwork.

One might be gone for good but I'm still not convinced Marc Bendavid is without a job.  Some people thought One killed in the hotel was a clone but that would not have worked as a clone of One would have looked differently. Jace Corso on the other hand could have used a clone to get the Raza crew off his back. For a murderous psychopath everybody was afraid of he was fairly easy to find and finish - just saying.

Wouldn't his body have whooshed into orange mist if he was a clone?

[MissLucas]

Yes, it would - though I'm not sure how long it normally takes for that to happen. Two shot him and the camera did linger for a while on his body. I just like to amuse myself with the idea that this is going to turn into some sort of running gag, he!

[jhlipton]

Oh my God, you killed Corso!  You bastard!!!!

[call me ishmael]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Oh my God, you killed Corso!  You bastard!!!!

The problem with this analogy though is that Kenny has a personality...

[Oracle42]

Yeah, after watching the Corso scenes, I think MB was about 75% of the problem. 

[Chaos Theory]

15 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

Yeah, after watching the Corso scenes, I think MB was about 75% of the problem. 

He didn't really do menacing all that well.   Now Portia Lin was freaky scary as the original version of herself.

[atomationage]

I thought Marc Bendavid was very believable playing the real Jase Corso in episode 205.   I re-watched it last night.   Most of the rest of the cast is the problem for me.  The more interesting characters of Six and Nyx aren't used enough.  Six is always stuck in scenes with Five.  The Android(s)  is the star of the show now.  The problem for me is the show runner and the writers. 

[Oracle42]

There was a visible, palpable difference between Two, Three and Four when they had their memories back. I understood why Five was hiding from them. Even the chemistry of the group was different. 

 

Then there's Corso. Random scumbag claims that he's more afraid of Corso than the entire crew of the Raza because Corso is ruthless and violent and terrrrrrifying - Bendavid meanwhile, manages to project all the menace of a three year old who has missed a nap and couldnt convincingly deliver the "you're soft" speech, which is pretty standard bad guy

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

On 7/31/2016 at 4:52 PM, MissLucas said:

One might be gone for good but I'm still not convinced Marc Bendavid is without a job.  Some people thought One killed in the hotel was a clone but that would not have worked as a clone of One would have looked differently. Jace Corso on the other hand could have used a clone to get the Raza crew off his back. For a murderous psychopath everybody was afraid of he was fairly easy to find and finish - just saying.

Never ever thought I'd find myself saying this after watching the first season, but I find myself hoping we'll get MB back in some fashion.  I can't quite explain it, but Show just doesn't have quite the same tone or "feel" this season, especially for the majority of the last few episodes, and the only thing I can attribute it to is not having a main character around that was in the first 14 episodes.

Seeing how he got top billing in the main credits for those first 14 eps, I find it hard to believe that MB won't be around in some fashion in the future - be it as 'One', (the really real) Jace Corso, an alternate/'keyhole' reality persona of JC, or as memories/recordings,etc of either iteration. 

Edited August 7, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Wouter]

On 7-8-2016 at 8:16 AM, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Never ever thought I'd find myself saying this after watching the first season, but I find myself hoping we'll get MB back in some fashion.  I can't quite explain it, but Show just doesn't have quite the same tone or "feel" this season, especially for the majority of the last few episodes, and the only thing I can attribute it to is not having a main character around that was in the first 14 episodes.

I agree that losing One has changed the atmosphere on the ship; I kinda miss Bendavid in this role, too. There used to an unspoken understanding between One, Five and Six that was lost and hasn't been replaced (yet).

Having said that, I think the overall quality of S2 has so far been better than S1. The lack of romantic triangle with One, Two and Three has helped in that respect. The stakes also seem higher now and most episodes have lots of things happening.

[Oracle42]

I wouldn't be averse to a more competent actor coming in as Derrick Moss to finish out One's story - but it wouldn't make sense for Derrick Moss to be a member of the Raza's crew even if he wasn't dead. I think it will be hard enough for Six to reconcile his continuing presence on the ship and he's actually done some pretty terrible things, One doesn't have a place there

[arjumand]

10 hours ago, Wouter said:

I agree that losing One has changed the atmosphere on the ship; I kinda miss Bendavid in this role, too. There used to an unspoken understanding between One, Five and Six that was lost and hasn't been replaced (yet).

I think the majority of the viewing audience agrees with you - having had a look at the ratings, I'm thinking that unless Mallozzi and co. are pulling a Jon Snow on us, the show isn't long for this world.

*See, this season started at around a 0.8 million viewing audience, which is down from last season, but only a little. Marc Bendavid was in that episode, in two roles: Jace Corso and Derrick Moss.

Then the viewing audience starts declining, episode per episode, with an all-time series low in episode 4 with 0.563. Then, lo and behold, in episode 5, we're back up again, the first time this season, with 0.734 million viewers. What changed? Well, as we saw in the previews, Marc Bendavid is back, as Jace Corso. Who gets shot in the face in the same episode.

Episode 5: ratings back down again to 0.654. Now this isn't perfectly clear cut - there's dvr etc. But what this is telling the network is that people are watching the promos, and if the character they're interested in isn't in it, they're not gonna bother watching it live. The ratings spell the message out quite clearly - the two episodes Marc Bendavid was in and had actual lines got the highest ratings this season.

As for myself, I freely admit to missing Marc Bendavid - whether it's Derrick Moss or Jace Corso. Like you said, the atmosphere on the show has changed, and not for the better.

I think the Jace Corso issue could have been handled much differently - I fully expected them to knock him out, drag him on the Raza, and mind-wipe him: "You always wanted to be part of our crew, right? Well, here you are! You're welcome!"

It would have created an actual redemption arc, where you have someone who's truly a scumbag, not like the others who are simply diamonds in the rough or whatever (an exiled Prince? What is this, Game of Thrones?), and who really redeems himself by starting afresh.

Just shooting him in the head was stupid, unless it turns out he was a clone all along, and the real Jace Corso is out there somewhere.  I do think that after last Friday's ratings came in, there were some pointed questions asked at meetings between the network and M&M.

 

*My source for ratings info is here: http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/dark-matter-season-two-ratings/

Edited August 9, 2016 by arjumand

[Chaos Theory]

It's a pity the ratings are going down this season because the show is significantly better,. Honestly I don't miss Marc Bendavid at all.  I am actually surprised he was marked as lead actor and frontman because for me he was the weakest of the group.  Yes One still had story to tell but I am kinda sad that we won't get to see it like we should but it's a small price to get rid of the awful One, Two, Three love triangle that was dragging down the show.

[Oracle42]

Bendavid and the triangle were the reasons that I stopped watching last season; I couldn't even hatewatch the last few episodes. I only caught the season premiere because I was too lazy to change the channel after Killjoys. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the first few eps of season 2.  I think the show has improved both in terms of focus and storytelling

Edited August 9, 2016 by Oracle42

[atomationage]

7 hours ago, arjumand said:

*See, this season started at around a 0.8 million viewing audience, which is down from last season, but only a little. Marc Bendavid was in that episode, in two roles: Jace Corso and Derrick Moss.

Then the viewing audience starts declining, episode per episode, with an all-time series low in episode 4 with 0.563. Then, lo and behold, in episode 5, we're back up again, the first time this season, with 0.734 million viewers. What changed? Well, as we saw in the previews, Marc Bendavid is back, as Jace Corso. Who gets shot in the face in the same episode.

My theory is that Mallozzi's five year plan for the show involved killing off one character each season in numerical order.   I still have the first season episodes, and this weekend I re-watched 2-1 and 2-5 with Marc Bendavid.   I haven't saved the other season 2 episodes and won't watch any more unless there's something more interesting in the previews than the most recent one.   I think it was a mistake to think you could get established viewers interested in different characters.   For me, one of the worst aspects of last season were the backstories, and how much time was spent on them, instead of going forward.  Now they want to give the viewers backstories for more characters.  GMAFB.  

[arjumand]

1 hour ago, atomationage said:

My theory is that Mallozzi's five year plan for the show involved killing off one character each season in numerical order.   I still have the first season episodes, and this weekend I re-watched 2-1 and 2-5 with Marc Bendavid.   I haven't saved the other season 2 episodes and won't watch any more unless there's something more interesting in the previews than the most recent one.   I think it was a mistake to think you could get established viewers interested in different characters.   For me, one of the worst aspects of last season were the backstories, and how much time was spent on them, instead of going forward.  Now they want to give the viewers backstories for more characters.  GMAFB.  

Oh, lord. That "five year plan for the show" makes perfect sense as something Mallozzi came up with. He is the uber-"characters must be sacrificed for the plot" showrunner. And he's done it again - he thought of a cool idea and now he's forcing everything to fit it.

Thing is, after two cancelled shows, I doubt that Syfy will be giving him much more rope, especially with the ratings in the toilet the way they are.

I know I complained about One more than most over here, but I do miss him, or I miss complaining about him - same difference. I just don't see the point of bringing in characters for the COOL, you're blowing my mind brah! moment when they get offed.

[Chaos Theory]

I am not sure how much the ratings matter at this point in time at least for the SyFy channel which is in a pretty odd place in time.  Their ratings have never been spectacular even 12 Monkeys which is arguably the best show the network has had since the BSG reboot has about a .45 and it keeps getting renewed.  Syfy is itself in the middle of its own reboot and making an effort to actually build a science fiction network which means SyFriday which was always a big  part of its brand.  

Dark Matter is a quality show and losing One actually improved the quality at least in my opinion.  Maybe there were too many characters or maybe he was the weakest link.  Either way I am enjoying the show even more now that he is gone.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Wouter]

The ratings have not been good on Syfy, and that is not a good sign, but the ratings on its native Space Channel are probably more important. I don't know what the results are in Canada, though, or what delayed viewing may be adding to the numbers in Syfy.

I doubt Mallozzi has a plan to kill off a character each season. He has already mentioned that he has an ending in mind for each character, some positive and some not so much. One seems to be part of the latter.

Killjoys has also had a serious drop in ratings compared to last season (on Syfy), so I doubt the ratings are directly related to Bendavid.

I'm also still expecting to see him back in a cameo somehow, even if the show does not pull a Jon Snow on us.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Wouter

[atomationage]

My prediction would be that Two will be killed off at the end of this season, or more likely, planned to get killed off at the beginning of the next season.  I doubt they'll be renewed though.   Nyx is a replacement for Two.   The medic is a replacement for One.   Some other evil jackass would be found to replace Three.  Alt Ninja, possible a woman, to replace Four.  Grand Series Finale of season five, the death of "Dorothy", Five. 

1 hour ago, Wouter said:

 

I'm also still expecting to see him back in a cameo somehow, even if the show does not pull a Jon Snow on us.

Bendavid is in a Hallmark movie scheduled for this Saturday called Summer In The City.  The rest of the cast are almost all women.   I'll probably watch that.   I doubt he'll be back on Dark Matter.  Shaun Sipos has replaced him.

[formerlyfreedom]

The poll is now closed - we'll be rolling this into the One topic in the next few days, so please remember to keep the conversation about One and all his various iterations, including MBD. Thanks!

[atomationage]

I watched the Hallmark movie,  Summer In The City that was on last weekend.  I thought it was enjoyable light entertainment, and was glad to see Marc Bendavid again.