Unpopular Opinions

[nightwing877]

9 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Then they put Paige in her terrible temp jobs. It's like the writers had no understanding of the situations when a person might need a social worker and thought Paige might be introduced to a wider range of people if she had these temp jobs. However, people are referred to social workers when:

• they have been involved in crimes as victims,
• they are transitioning from jail or prison,
• they have a mental illness,
• they or a family has been through a death, illness, or traumatic experience,
• they are transitioning from the military,
• they need public benefits, and
• they sometimes need job training.

Except for her wackiest temp jobs, nearly all of her stories could have found an easy way to have a social worker be involved in those same situations.

All the above had so much potential for storylines. Didn't think that all of her stories with the temp jobs could be used as her being a social worker. I do think Rose herself didn't like this direction at all with her character, I think she said so at a convention?

I never found any of the sisters jobs that fascinating for the ones that were major P3 and Bay Mirror, they kept getting rid of the only two that worked Quake and Social services for Piper and Paige after 1 season, when they would of added more to their characters. 

[Apprentice79]

3 hours ago, nightwing877 said:

All the above had so much potential for storylines. Didn't think that all of her stories with the temp jobs could be used as her being a social worker. I do think Rose herself didn't like this direction at all with her character, I think she said so at a convention?

I never found any of the sisters jobs that fascinating for the ones that were major P3 and Bay Mirror, they kept getting rid of the only two that worked Quake and Social services for Piper and Paige after 1 season, when they would of added more to their characters. 

If Paige never came to the show and Prue had remained. I feel that social work should have been a job for Phoebe, eventually becoming a Psychiatrist. She could have also worked with Andy to solve cold cases. Phoebe was always about saving innocents. She was the most empathetic of the three original sisters. This would have been a good way for Phoebe to heal others.  I remember how she helped reunite that mother and daughter via a premonition that she got from touching that piece of jewelry , when she worked at Buckland's with Prue. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Apprentice79

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

If Paige never came to the show and Prue had remained. I feel that social work should have been a job for Phoebe, eventually becoming a Psychiatrist. She could have also worked with Andy to solve cold cases. Phoebe was always about saving innocents. She was the most empathetic of the three original sisters. This would have been a good way for Phoebe to heal others.  I remember how she helped reunite that mother and daughter via a premonition that she got from touching that piece of jewelry , when she worked at Buckland's with Prue. 

I liked the idea of Phoebe working with Andy to solve cold cases. She suggested that once before to Darryl which he didn't like. But I thought it was a great idea. It would be fun to watch them trying to solve cold cases, it would put Phoebe in a position to run into innocents by working with a police officer. 

[nightwing877]

28 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I liked the idea of Phoebe working with Andy to solve cold cases. She suggested that once before to Darryl which he didn't like. But I thought it was a great idea. It would be fun to watch them trying to solve cold cases, it would put Phoebe in a position to run into innocents by working with a police officer. 

That would of been such a treat for the show, and really would of gave more importance to innocents and breathed so much life into the series, that we wouldn't need to rely on the magical community so often for stories.  solving cases and saving innocents over magic school any day. 

[HunterHunted]

I don't know if this is unpopular, but I loathe Agent Kyle Brody. He's a terrible character. He's smug, sanctimonious, condescending, and dangerous. Besides how fucking awful he was once he found out that Leo was an avatar, he's constantly doing dangerous things like in the guardian angel episode where he goes to a burning building and then jumps from the building to call his guardian angel. Even worse is how Paige is into him even though he tries to kill Leo repeatedly and puts her sisters' lives in danger. 

[helenamonster]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't know if this is unpopular, but I loathe Agent Kyle Brody. He's a terrible character. He's smug, sanctimonious, condescending, and dangerous. Besides how fucking awful he was once he found out that Leo was an avatar, he's constantly doing dangerous things like in the guardian angel episode where he goes to a burning building and then jumps from the building to call his guardian angel. Even worse is how Paige is into him even though he tries to kill Leo repeatedly and puts her sisters' lives in danger. 

Not sure if this is unpopular either but saaaaaaaaame. I originally thought Kyle and Paige/Kyle had a lot of potential (I like when this show blends mortal and magical problems) but yikes did they ever fumble with this one. Even when he saw with his own two eyes that the avatars didn't kill his parents, he still wanted to kill them! What?! I think Kyle would have worked better without the dead parent baggage: a mortal law enforcement official who knew about magic (sort of a quasi-X Files kind of agent) and wanted to stop the avatars because he understood the downsides of a utopia. I would have much preferred that to the grudge-holding manipulative asshole we got instead.

And the whole thing was a terrible look for Paige, who was my favorite sister; all of the episodes with Kyle are her at her absolute worst. It could have also been an opportunity for the show to further explore how she still wasn't completely connected to Piper and Phoebe and still couldn't shake the stubborn, independent streak of the only child she really was, but it just looked like she was choosing Kyle over them for no reason.

And I was really disappointed that they wasted Kerr Smith, who I always sort of had a guilty crush on in Final Destination where being a smug, sanctimonious, condescending, dangerous asshole worked much better for him (why yes, my terrible taste in just about everything goes waaay beyond this show).

[Writing Wrongs]

On 11/1/2017 at 8:59 PM, nightwing877 said:

I don't know why Piper would want a club, didn't feel like her at all

Because Buffy had The Bronze.

[Esmeralda]

10 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't know if this is unpopular, but I loathe Agent Kyle Brody. He's a terrible character. He's smug, sanctimonious, condescending, and dangerous. Besides how fucking awful he was once he found out that Leo was an avatar, he's constantly doing dangerous things like in the guardian angel episode where he goes to a burning building and then jumps from the building to call his guardian angel. Even worse is how Paige is into him even though he tries to kill Leo repeatedly and puts her sisters' lives in danger. 

I'm with you totally on that.  Him becoming a whitelighter while Leo lost his powers only because he was on the avatars' side proved to me that the Elders were now more demonic than the demons.

[magicdog]

On 1/2/2018 at 10:22 AM, Writing Wrongs said:

I don't know why Piper would want a club, didn't feel like her at all

Because TPTB needed a place to showcase artists signed to the WB record label.

 

On 1/2/2018 at 6:59 AM, HunterHunted said:

I don't know if this is unpopular, but I loathe Agent Kyle Brody. He's a terrible character. He's smug, sanctimonious, condescending, and dangerous. Besides how fucking awful he was once he found out that Leo was an avatar, he's constantly doing dangerous things like in the guardian angel episode where he goes to a burning building and then jumps from the building to call his guardian angel. Even worse is how Paige is into him even though he tries to kill Leo repeatedly and puts her sisters' lives in danger. 

Ditto.  However what really got to me was him dying and becoming a WHITELIGHTER of all things!   The way he behaved would not put him in that league .  

[HunterHunted]

That whitelighter nonsense made me livid.

[Apprentice79]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 4:46 PM, HunterHunted said:

That whitelighter nonsense made me livid.

I think the whitelighter concept, as it was presented in season 1 was good.  I wonder how that would have affected future storylines, if Leo had not come back for season 2.   

I also liked the different demons that we used to get in the first 2 seasons.  The demon of illusions, in chick flick, in season 2 was an example of that.  From season 3 onward, all of the demons threw fireballs and could teleport.. We should have gotten a different variety of demons throughout the series.  It would have made them more interesting, dangerous and scary.   

Edited January 15, 2018 by Apprentice79

[HunterHunted]

On 1/2/2018 at 10:37 AM, helenamonster said:

Not sure if this is unpopular either but saaaaaaaaame. I originally thought Kyle and Paige/Kyle had a lot of potential (I like when this show blends mortal and magical problems) but yikes did they ever fumble with this one. Even when he saw with his own two eyes that the avatars didn't kill his parents, he still wanted to kill them! What?! I think Kyle would have worked better without the dead parent baggage: a mortal law enforcement official who knew about magic (sort of a quasi-X Files kind of agent) and wanted to stop the avatars because he understood the downsides of a utopia. I would have much preferred that to the grudge-holding manipulative asshole we got instead.

I always got the sense that Agent Big Wolf on Campus/Murphy was the show realizing that they screwed up Kyle and attempting a do-over.

[magicdog]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

a mortal law enforcement official who knew about magic (sort of a quasi-X Files kind of agent)

They more or less were going in this direction with Andy way back in the pilot.  In fact, some first and 2nd season episodes could be re-written as X-files shows from the perspective of mortal investigators.  

[Esmeralda]

15 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I think the whitelighter concept, as it was presented in season 1 was good.  I wonder how that would have affected future storylines, if Leo had not come back for season 2.   

I also liked the different demons that we used to get in the first 2 seasons.  The demon of illusions, in chick flick, in season 2 was an example of that.  From season 3 onward, all of the demons threw fireballs and could teleport.. We should have gotten a different variety of demons throughout the series.  It would have made them more interesting, dangerous and scary.   

I would've preferred demons remaining the Demons of, the way the angels were the Angels of, and letting warlocks remain the Big Bad of Charmed.  I would've preferred Cole as a warlock who became a witch when he fell in love with Phoebe rather than the crappy storyline they gave our half-demon.  I would hope this would mean there would never be such thing as the Source but just leave it assumed that it was Satan, someone who could never be vanquished, who was the Big Bad but never shown, as I'm positive was meant in Season One with Rex and Hannah.

But, like you, I will always wonder how much of the whitelighers and Elders or half-anythings we would've seen had Andy stayed while Leo didn't come back. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Esmeralda

[helenamonster]

On 1/15/2018 at 1:25 PM, HunterHunted said:

I always got the sense that Agent Big Wolf on Campus/Murphy was the show realizing that they screwed up Kyle and attempting a do-over.

Totally forgot about Agent Murphy. Season Eight is just a blur of my irrational hatred for Billie and Christy and my completely rational love for Paige's great hair.

[Kohola3]

15 minutes ago, helenamonster said:

...my irrational hatred for Billie and Christy...

Nothing irrational about it!  They were the absolute worse in all ways from the horrendous acting to the hideous story line.  What a waste of air.

[HunterHunted]

On 1/16/2018 at 9:18 PM, helenamonster said:

Season Eight is just a blur of my irrational hatred for Billie and Christy and my completely rational love for Paige's great hair.

On 1/16/2018 at 9:35 PM, Kohola3 said:

Nothing irrational about it!  They were the absolute worse in all ways from the horrendous acting to the hideous story line.  What a waste of air.

 

Hatred of season 8 is completely rational, especially the really dumb pivot that the Charmed Ones were selfishly putting their needs above others. The irony of this was that Billie was constantly putting others in danger because she was trying to find secretly evil Christy. And yes, there was some brief back burnering of the search for Christy in order to deal with the Leo issue, but Billie saw first-hand the good that the sisters did so it was unbelievably obnoxious that she'd immediately side with Christy who she hadn't seen in decades and was raised by demons.

Edited January 20, 2018 by HunterHunted

[Kohola3]

7 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

The irony of this was that Billie was constantly putting other's in danger because she was trying to find secretly evil Christy.

Throw in the pouty over glossed lips and, well, it makes me nauseated to even think about it.

[Esmeralda]

When I think that he's what Kern thought the Charmed Ones should be like (he had to since he thought she'd be starring in a spin-off), doesn't that answer a lot of questions regarding him and women?

[Apprentice79]

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 8:07 PM, Esmeralda said:

I would've preferred demons remaining the Demons of, the way the angels were the Angels of, and letting warlocks remain the Big Bad of Charmed.  I would've preferred Cole as a warlock who became a witch when he fell in love with Phoebe rather than the crappy storyline they gave our half-demon.  I would hope this would mean there would never be such thing as the Source but just leave it assumed that it was Satan, someone who could never be vanquished, who was the Big Bad but never shown, as I'm positive was meant in Season One with Rex and Hannah.

But, like you, I will always wonder how much of the whitelighers and Elders or half-anythings we would've seen had Andy stayed while Leo didn't come back. 

We should have also seen the charmed ones deal with evil human beings. It would have been interesting to see them grapple with that type of dilemma.  

Morality bites should have been the first episode of season 2.   It would have been cool to see how the show would have written Andy into that episode, instead of Leo.  Would Melinda have been Prue's with Andy or would she still have been Piper's with an unknown father.   I would want it to be the latter, leaving us with a mystery on who he is and what happened to him.. Perhaps, this mystery could have push Piper into an unexpected story.  

Phoebe's premonitions should have driven stories for the charmed ones.   So much potential, with that power, along with telekinesis and Freezing time, were wasted by Kern. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Apprentice79

[Esmeralda]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

We should have also seen the charmed ones deal with evil human beings. It would have been interesting to see them grapple with that type of dilemma.  

Morality bites should have been the first episode of season 2.   It would have been cool to see how the show would have written Andy into that episode, instead of Leo.  Would Melinda have been Prue's with Andy or would she still have been Piper's with an unknown father.   I would want it to be the latter, leaving us with a mystery on who he is and what happened to him.. Perhaps, this mystery could have push Piper into an unexpected story.  

Phoebe's premonitions should have driven stories for the charmed ones.   So much potential, with that power, along with telekinesis and Freezing time, were wasted by Kern. 

I'd prefer Melinda being Andy's and Prue's, with them not being able to live with magic the way Piper and Leo couldn't, and actually let it be what leads them to decide against getting married or having kids, with Piper the owner of a ton of P3s and Phoebe playing the same role.  And I'd want it to push Piper towards deciding to go into catering from home rather than the nightclub scene, and also towards Dan. Without Leo around, he could've been perfect for Piper as he helps her have a normal life once she gets home (I can see them *not* living in the Manor where the Book kept attracting evil) so we don't have to constantly listen to her whine about her lack of a normal life.

But I agree with you totally re: Phoebe.  To think the only thing it was important for in the "real" future was discovering which guy she should screw so she could have her daughter was *such* a waste of her power and the backlash should've prevented her from ever having a child.

[Apprentice79]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 11:05 PM, Esmeralda said:

I'd prefer Melinda being Andy's and Prue's, with them not being able to live with magic the way Piper and Leo couldn't, and actually let it be what leads them to decide against getting married or having kids, with Piper the owner of a ton of P3s and Phoebe playing the same role.  And I'd want it to push Piper towards deciding to go into catering from home rather than the nightclub scene, and also towards Dan. Without Leo around, he could've been perfect for Piper as he helps her have a normal life once she gets home (I can see them *not* living in the Manor where the Book kept attracting evil) so we don't have to constantly listen to her whine about her lack of a normal life.

But I agree with you totally re: Phoebe.  To think the only thing it was important for in the "real" future was discovering which guy she should screw so she could have her daughter was *such* a waste of her power and the backlash should've prevented her from ever having a child.

I like your ideas, but, I would also want Piper to have an arch where she becomes a super witch and embrace her powers and go for broke. I would also want her to live in the manor and be the one to have the book of shadows, as a sign of her accepting her destiny.  I would want Dan for Phoebe. Piper would continue to not meet the one, until, he comes into her life, unexpectedly, testing her resolve to not whine any longer about a normal life. 

Phoebe would become a psychologist and help Andy and Morris locate missing children and solve cold cases.  This would backfire on Andy causing more angst for him and Prue.  I would also want Phoebe to meet a past Warren witch that had the same power as her, to help her harness her premonitions.  Phoebe's abilities would surpass past Warren witches with premonitions, but, a visit with one would help Phoebe get over her power not being like her older sisters.. The episode, the importance of being Phoebe, in season 4, should have been about her power of premonitions, it's evolution and Phoebe mastering it.. We should have seen that in Prue and Piper as well.  Piper's freezing power never advanced in any way and  was virtually forgotten in later seasons..

Prue should always struggle with not truly having Andy in her life.  

Edited January 21, 2018 by Apprentice79

[nightwing877]

Speaking of solving cases and helping Andy and Darryl. It never occurred to me before, why none of the sisters worked in the law enforcement. I guess that is why they created Andy as an ally, but Phoebe strikes me as someone where her gits might have worked wonders working with Andy and Darryl more closely. The number of people and innocents she could save this way than just sitting at a desk and offering advise at the Bay Mirror. An idea that screams potential. 

If they rebooted Charmed, I do want one of the sisters to be working in the law in some way. Either a Lawyer or Detective, because those jobs really can see them helping many more innocents in need of help. The same way Paige's social working job became the best platform to really have innocents coming in and out of the show with a service that worked. 

[Esmeralda]

17 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I like your ideas, but, I would also want Piper to have an arch where she becomes a super witch and embrace her powers and go for broke. I would also want her to live in the manor and be the one to have the book of shadows, as a sign of her accepting her destiny.  I would want Dan for Phoebe. Piper would continue to not meet the one, until, he comes into her life, unexpectedly, testing her resolve to not whine any longer about a normal life. 

Phoebe would become a psychologist and help Andy and Morris locate missing children and solve cold cases.  This would backfire on Andy causing more angst for him and Prue.  I would also want Phoebe to meet a past Warren witch that had the same power as her, to help her harness her premonitions.  Phoebe's abilities would surpass past Warren witches with premonitions, but, a visit with one would help Phoebe get over her power not being like her older sisters.. The episode, the importance of being Phoebe, in season 4, should have been about her power of premonitions, it's evolution and Phoebe mastering it.. We should have seen that in Prue and Piper as well.  Piper's freezing power never advanced in any way and  was virtually forgotten in later seasons..

Prue should always struggle with not truly having Andy in her life.  

Piper embrace her powers and go for broke?  I can't imagine anything that would make her do that; it would be too out of character.

I *do* wish that Melinda Warren could've stayed with them throughout their first year as witches to help them embrace their powers - especially if that season didn't include Leo.  Especially where she had all three powers, she could really help them develop and embrace those powers.  Besides, Melinda was one of my favorite characters and I would've liked to have seen more of her.

 In my own Dream Charmed, I have Phoebe end up with Andy (played by someone else since Ted King would look too old for her, even if I believe Alyssa is the oldest of the actresses)  and she uses her premonitions to help him solve cases - I'd prefer that over psychologist - again, that just doesn't sound like Phoebe to me.  In mine, when she goes back to school, it's to become an inspector, like Andy. But even if she doesn't become a couple with him, her helping out the police department makes a lot of sense.

I'd prefer Prue being able to just be friends with Andy and just use what happened to be the one who becomes the super-witch, but who constantly has to face backlashes when she uses them the wrong way to prevent her from becoming the Mary Sue character she did.

[Apprentice79]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:08 AM, Esmeralda said:

Piper embrace her powers and go for broke?  I can't imagine anything that would make her do that; it would be too out of character.

For me, it would be Piper accepting her powers and learning more about them. We saw Prue and Phoebe testing their powers and limitations. I loved Phoebe's reliance on the book of shadows in the earlier seasons. I thought it was fitting that she was the one to write the first spell, to vanquish, the shadow, in the book of shadows.   Constance had Phoebe be the best spell caster in the power of 3.  I never understood why the Charmed ones never used the book to amplify their powers.. I loved how Prue and Piper used that spell in season 2, to read minds, in fighting, those warlocks.. We should have seen more of that...The sisters should have been able to vanquish demons, without, always relying, on a power of 3 spell..

[helenamonster]

On 1/22/2018 at 8:08 AM, Esmeralda said:

I *do* wish that Melinda Warren could've stayed with them throughout their first year as witches to help them embrace their powers - especially if that season didn't include Leo.  Especially where she had all three powers, she could really help them develop and embrace those powers.  Besides, Melinda was one of my favorite characters and I would've liked to have seen more of her.

Just wanna chime in with my Melinda Warren love. She only showed up for one episode (minus "All Halliwell's Eve" where she was just a baby) but she was awesome, and the actress who played her was great. I would have loved seeing her come back every once in a while in the same way that Patty and Grams did.

[Esmeralda]

14 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

For me, it would be Piper accepting her powers and learning more about them. We saw Prue and Phoebe testing their powers and limitations. I loved Phoebe's reliance on the book of shadows in the earlier seasons. I thought it was fitting that she was the one to write the first spell, to vanquish, the shadow, in the book of shadows.   Constance had Phoebe be the best spell caster in the power of 3.  I never understood why the Charmed ones never used the book to amplify their powers.. I loved how Prue and Piper used that spell in season 2, to read minds, in fighting, those warlocks.. We should have seen more of that...The sisters should have been able to vanquish demons, without, always relying, on a power of 3 spell..

If this was just Piper accepting (and not embracing) her powers (and not going for broke) , then I'd agree with you.  This is why having Melinda Warren helping them would've been so nice.  She was able to help Phoebe accept her premonitions as important (even if she horribly misused them in the latter seasons); it would've been fun to watch her try to do that with Piper.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Esmeralda

[nightwing877]

19 hours ago, Esmeralda said:

If this was just Piper accepting (and not embracing) her powers (and not going for broke) , then I'd agree with you.  This is why having Melinda Warren helping them would've been so nice.  She was able to help Phoebe accept her premonitions as important (even if she horribly misused them in the latter seasons); it would've been fun to watch her try to do that with Piper.

She would have made a better teacher than Leo, who actually could really relate and guide better actually being a witch herself. Wouldn't even need Leo introduced at all. But I don't think she would stay for too long. She would probably be gone at the end of season 1.

[Esmeralda]

21 minutes ago, nightwing877 said:

She would have made a better teacher than Leo, who actually could really relate and guide better actually being a witch herself. Wouldn't even need Leo introduced at all. But I don't think she would stay for too long. She would probably be gone at the end of season 1.

*nods* That's what I would've liked, just to let her be around for their first year as witches, as they learn how to be the Charmed Ones, the way Leo was only supposed to be their guide for their first year.

[Guest]

On 27/09/2017 at 9:01 AM, HunterHunted said:

 

I don't know if the problem was truly Brad Kern. He's been a half decent showrunner on other shows. By the time he took over officially, they'd already messed up the show canon significantly. Kern definitely struggled with balancing season long serialized stories with episodic stories. However, I think the biggest impediment was always Aaron Spelling. He never liked dark. He didn't like brooding or nihilism. His tastes were very commercial. I don't think Spelling ever understood or appreciated the type of planning that a genre show takes to pull off. I can see him not getting the importance of having Emmanuelle Vaugier be in 6 episodes just so that Piper has a person who is familiar with magic to deliver Wyatt. I can see how Kern might have given up and not fought Spelling on an increased budget for a role that would end up as a glorified cameo after the first episode that featured the Dr. Ava character.

I really don't think Aaron Spelling had any input on any shows by this time. When Charmed began, sure, he was the one to lure Doherty back to his shows. 

But, certainly by the time Brad Kern took full control, Aaron Spelling had zero input into the show. The studio execs were the ones to push for less clothing and "sexy" storylines. Just look at their embarrassing promotion for the show. It went from barely any promotion at all when the show was actually decent, to those pathetic comedy trailers "Phoebe SLEPT WITH A ZOMBIE!!" and scantily clad promo images. 

On 05/11/2017 at 10:55 AM, nightwing877 said:

All the above had so much potential for storylines. Didn't think that all of her stories with the temp jobs could be used as her being a social worker. I do think Rose herself didn't like this direction at all with her character, I think she said so at a convention?

I never found any of the sisters jobs that fascinating for the ones that were major P3 and Bay Mirror, they kept getting rid of the only two that worked Quake and Social services for Piper and Paige after 1 season, when they would of added more to their characters. 

I actually preferred P3 to Quake, particularly seasons 3 - 5. 

And one of the sisters at least needed to be self employed for the ridiculous numbers of times they had to leave work to not get too repetitive, with all of them requiring to feed lies to their bosses. 

[Guest]

On 03/01/2018 at 1:03 AM, Esmeralda said:

I'm with you totally on that.  Him becoming a whitelighter while Leo lost his powers only because he was on the avatars' side proved to me that the Elders were now more demonic than the demons.

Tbf, the situations were completely different. Kyle was a mortal, Leo was a powerful magical being who JOINED the Avatars and murdered an Elder. 

[HunterHunted]

3 minutes ago, Lost said:

I really don't think Aaron Spelling had any input on any shows by this time. When Charmed began, sure, he was the one to lure Doherty back to his shows. 

But, certainly by the time Brad Kern took full control, Aaron Spelling had zero input into the show. The studio execs were the ones to push for less clothing and "sexy" storylines. Just look at their embarrassing promotion for the show. It went from barely any promotion at all when the show was actually decent, to those pathetic comedy trailers "Phoebe SLEPT WITH A ZOMBIE!!" and scantily clad promo images. 

I'm going to disagree because Spelling had both a cameo in season 4 and had input past season 3. I wish I could find them, but there were a fair number of articles that suggested that Spelling's influence really began to wane in season 5 or 6. Until then, he was actively involved.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/aaron-spelling-ruled-television-an-823391

http://ew.com/article/2001/06/12/spelling-asked-tiffani-thiessen-join-charmed/

[Esmeralda]

21 hours ago, Lost said:

Tbf, the situations were completely different. Kyle was a mortal, Leo was a powerful magical being who JOINED the Avatars and murdered an Elder. 

And by joining the Avatars and finding out what they were up to, Leo and Zankou did more to save the world than the Charmed Ones or the Elders did.  And he "murdered" the Elder because Phoebe had a premonition of Beta killing Kyle.  In war (and this was war) there will be casualties in order to prevent worse tragedies.  Still no reason to punish Leo, and Kyle did nothing to become a whitelighter.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Esmeralda

[Guest]

On 27/01/2018 at 3:53 PM, Esmeralda said:

And by joining the Avatars and finding out what they were up to, Leo and Zankou did more to save the world than the Charmed Ones or the Elders did.  And he "murdered" the Elder because Phoebe had a premonition of Beta killing Kyle.  In war (and this was war) there will be casualties in order to prevent worse tragedies.  Still no reason to punish Leo, and Kyle did nothing to become a whitelighter.

No. Leo murdered an Elder in his pursuit of Barbas, before he became an Avatar. 

By joining the Avatars, Leo allowed them to put their plan into motion. If Leo hadn't joined them they wouldn't have been able to do it in the first place. They needed both Leo and the Charmed Ones to create Utopia, they couldn't do it alone. 

[Guest]

On 26/01/2018 at 7:11 PM, HunterHunted said:

I'm going to disagree because Spelling had both a cameo in season 4 and had input past season 3. I wish I could find them, but there were a fair number of articles that suggested that Spelling's influence really began to wane in season 5 or 6. Until then, he was actively involved.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/aaron-spelling-ruled-television-an-823391

http://ew.com/article/2001/06/12/spelling-asked-tiffani-thiessen-join-charmed/

I'm pretty sure he never had a single cameo on the show. That's an urban myth that stemmed from a scene where Phoebe says "Excuse us, Aaron" to an extra that is clearly not Aaron Spelling at Prue's wake. Lmao. Probably more of an in-joke reference with the name. Like when Elise tells Phoebe about her ex husband "James L Connors" which is a reference to the fact that the actress is married to Charmed producer James L Conway. 

Unless there's another cameo that I missed. 

Also, the only evidence of his input into the show was in getting the show off the ground by pulling in the stars to sell the show, Doherty mainly and then later Milano as a replacement. 

Then obviously used his power to try and attract another star to replace Doherty later on. There's no evidence of his input anywhere else, particularly later in the show's run. 

I think if Aaron had any actual hand in the running of the show, things with Doherty wouldn't have gone quite as they did. And his name is never brought up in any of the many versions of what happened that any of the stars discuss, both back then and more recently. 

I would've thought Aaron Spelling being involved would've benefited the show more, Shannen Doherty speaks about how she single handedly battled with the studio over promotion for the show and had to convince them to even put up billboards for it in Hollywood. 

Not to mention Spelling's health was very bad for a number of years prior to his death in 2006. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Lost

[Eva Marie]

I know practically everyone likes Julian as Cole, but I have an ambivalent relationship with his presence on the show. Firstly, he has a weird personal presence in general. Second, what he was doing on the show cannot be called acting: It was standing around reading lines while being himself.  He just did it in a dynamic enough way so that it didn't look stiff and immediately identifiable as bad acting. It still breaks the 4th wall for me in a way not even Leo with his monotone delivery ever does.

[Eva Marie]

He did however, drastically improve as an actor between Centennial Charmed and 7-year Witch. Nip/Tuck must've done wonders for him in that regard despite being the epic piece of chauvinist garbage that it sounds as being (won't touch the show with a barge pole to confirm - still recovering from my brush with GOT years ago...brrr).

I'm shocked by how much I like S7: I'm actually invested in the Avatar storyline. The production values have improved, the clothes finally look remotely something like a grown woman's wardrobe.

On the downside: what is with the ridiculous level of male domination on a female-led show? Why are the kids both boys for instance and the rare female demons all SEXXXXY? This coupled with The Crown is proof to me that you should not let a man run a female-centric show as a general rule. Especially not the creep that Brad Kern is.

[Eva Marie]

More on the male casting front: I LOVED Inspector Sheridan - such a stunning, tall, imposing actress. Would've been great to see her in a big part on the show: she could've been a whitelighter, or a female Darryl, or a bad witch or demon in a long arc, or or even a love interest. Same thing with Bea the avatar, Phoebe's boss, the magic school librarian - too little of them.  But no - let's fill the screen up with unremarkable  dudes, dudes and more dudes; and waste compelling actresses in the process!

This is an area that could see serious improvement in the reboot if it survives. You can't replicate the original 3 actresses and their chemistry, but everything else can be made better and I trust Jenny Urman - she has excellent cred: Gilmore Girls + Jane the Virgin. CW just got cocky and made a real boo-boo in regard to the marketing: they should never have called it Charmed and instead just made a witch show inspired by Charmed (really emphasizing the inspired part).

[Esmeralda]

I agree with your last paragraph and totally disagree with the first one.  Inspector Sheridan was like Hannah of Rex and Hannah "fame" - a horrible stereotype of a professional woman.  The actress did a great job with what she was given, but typical for the latter seasons, the writing left plenty to be desired.

With the name "Sheridan" I kept waiting for Jack to show up....

[Eva Marie]

I meant that I liked the actress. My problem is that the casting on the show was male by default: Darryl was barely there as a character too, but the actor at least had a job for 8 years. I would've much preferred to see Inspector Sheridan's actress in the same blank role. And there should not have been male witches at all - it undermines the whole concept of the show and the folklore.

[Esmeralda]

Yeah, I would've preferred male witches (which means "wise WOMAN") had been called warlocks or wizards with either of them being able to be evil, the way I would've preferred demons remaining as The Demons of rather than just someone in black leather who shimmered and threw energy balls. (YAWN!).  Hopefully the reboot fixes.  So many wrongs the reboots could right...  I sure hope so!

[Guest]

"Witch" also has the definition of ugly old hag so I wouldn't put much stock in sticking to definitions. 

I'm glad the show wasn't so dull to be so rigid. 

I suppose the reason for the male presence, is that the majority of the men you mention were intended as love interests to the sisters at various times so were never going to be women. In that sense the men were just as much SEXXXXYYYY as the female guests were. 

On 22/02/2018 at 12:05 PM, Eva Marie said:

He did however, drastically improve as an actor between Centennial Charmed and 7-year Witch. Nip/Tuck must've done wonders for him in that regard despite being the epic piece of chauvinist garbage that it sounds as being (won't touch the show with a barge pole to confirm - still recovering from my brush with GOT years ago...brrr).

I'm shocked by how much I like S7: I'm actually invested in the Avatar storyline. The production values have improved, the clothes finally look remotely something like a grown woman's wardrobe.

On the downside: what is with the ridiculous level of male domination on a female-led show? Why are the kids both boys for instance and the rare female demons all SEXXXXY? This coupled with The Crown is proof to me that you should not let a man run a female-centric show as a general rule. Especially not the creep that Brad Kern is.

I don't know about the costumes. Apart from Piper, the other sisters tended to mostly look "styled" rather than regular women going to work, going shopping, lying about the house etc. 

But I'm interested by your comment on the production value as the budget was severely cut. The special effects, which had improved from season 1, had suddenly got cheaper and less convincing. But it's fascinating to read someone get a different impression. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Lost

[Esmeralda]

Your definition is what they became when men tried to make smart women seem ugly.  But "wise woman" (not man) *is* the original definition.  So a male witch is a male wise woman....

Edited February 28, 2018 by Esmeralda

[Eva Marie]

9 hours ago, Lost said:

I suppose the reason for the male presence, is that the majority of the men you mention were intended as love interests to the sisters at various times so were never going to be women.

There were LOTS more men than the love interests: something like 95% of the demons, Darryl, most of the Elders and Avatars. The vast majority were a waste of screen-space as actors. There were a few solid actresses in small parts that should've had much bigger roles instead.

[Eva Marie]

The budget was cut in S8, which I haven't seen yet. They were quite good in S7.

Piper was the only relatively sensibly dressed one throughout. Phoebe was actually OK in S2. Later on that mermaid costume alone should be grounds for suing for pain + suffering for Alyssa and the female viewers. Most of the men were dressed head to toe actually, even the obvious sex objects (Cole + Dan were only seen shirtless a couple of times max).

[Eva Marie]

And it's more than costumes. Look at Cole's blonde assistant demon in The Source storyline. Why have her flirt so outrageously with him? Nobody can resist Cole apparently...But it did give us that droll line: "I'm a 1-woman demon":-))

[Commando Cody]

On 1/13/2018 at 3:46 PM, HunterHunted said:

That whitelighter nonsense made me livid.

I hated the idea of some council of Elders, who ruled over the witches. Taking and giving powers as they deemed fit. 

I also hated the the personal gain rule. 

[Guest]

On 28/02/2018 at 5:25 AM, Esmeralda said:

Your definition is what they became when men tried to make smart women seem ugly.  But "wise woman" (not man) *is* the original definition.  So a male witch is a male wise woman....

 

Source?

On 28/02/2018 at 5:47 AM, Eva Marie said:

There were LOTS more men than the love interests: something like 95% of the demons, Darryl, most of the Elders and Avatars. The vast majority were a waste of screen-space as actors. There were a few solid actresses in small parts that should've had much bigger roles instead.

There were a tonne of awful actresses for every... erm... Debbi Morgan, she was ok. 

There were a tonne of really bad actors for every... erm... Billy Zane, he was ok. 

 

I suppose in casting men as demons, you want a stark contrast to your heroes so the opposite of three women would be a bloke more often than not. 

And they were objectified just as much as the women, with tight leather and bare skin. 

But, I don't think gender was one of Charmed's issues in terms of casting. Their casting was far less equal in regards to ethnicity and sexuality. But then TV across the board was pretty much like that at the time Charmed was made. Friends is dated for similar reasons. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Lost

[Guest]

On 01/03/2018 at 9:25 PM, Commando Cody said:

I hated the idea of some council of Elders, who ruled over the witches. Taking and giving powers as they deemed fit. 

I also hated the the personal gain rule. 

Tbf, you can see the reasoning behind both of these things. Dramatically, your show needs rules otherwise you remove the conflict. 

If the sisters could use magic for anything and everything then a lot of the dramatic tension is lost. 

I remember reading an interview with JK Rowling when she was asked something similar and she said one of the first things she did when writing the novels was work out what magic COULDN'T do in order to retain a sense of threat and drama and, in some ways, realism. To the point where she worked out it couldn't cure death, it couldn't create food that didn't already exist etc. Otherwise you open the can of worms of why this and why that if magic can do anything. 

I'd actually say though, thinking about it, other than being a way of putting a block between Piper and Leo, the Elders didn't change much within the show magic-wise. 99% of the time the Elders had no more information than the book or some other character already had. The show would have functioned (Piper and Leo's story aside) not all that differently without them. 

But the personal gain rule is a must for the show to function IMO. Even in the later seasons when the sisters had less regard for it.

On 02/11/2017 at 1:59 AM, nightwing877 said:

I know right. I don't know why Piper would want a club, didn't feel like her at all.

I think, originally, the point was that she would get out of the job she hated with the boss she couldn't stand and start managing her own place before moving onto the place she wanted, a restaurant. After she'd made money and got up and running. 

That obviously got lost until the closing seconds of the series finale 7 years later. Lmfao. 

[Apprentice79]

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 4:25 PM, Commando Cody said:

I hated the idea of some council of Elders, who ruled over the witches. Taking and giving powers as they deemed fit. 

I also hated the the personal gain rule. 

I too hated that the elders gave witches their powers. If that was the case, there was no need for the charmed ones to exist.. The elders could grant themselves powers and fight evil themselves.  

The show made it clear that the powers came from the witches themselves. In the case of the charmed ones, their powers were supposed to grow and do things that no other witches before could do. Brad Kern changed that rule to fit his agenda.  I wish that the elders had remained invisible throughout the series. I preferred the sisters figuring things out themselves and using their powers, ingenuity, determination and heart, to defeat evil.. 

The personal gain rule was good in theory, but, the execution left a lot to be desired. I see nothing wrong with Prue using her powers to get herself a bowl of cereal.  I do think that Phoebe choosing evil over the power of three should have had consequences for her and the charmed ones. Perhaps, the book  of shadows, strips Phoebe of her powers and she has to regain them back, as punishment...It could have been a mini arch that humbled Phoebe. It made no sense that the elders took her powers away, after everything that the sisters had done for them, over the years.