Unpopular Opinions

[Lost]

On 2/19/2019 at 11:15 PM, JustKay said:

2: Her freaking obsession with wanting to have a child. Bitch please, you're a witch that is WAY cooler than wanting a crotch goblin. (yeah im anti-kid and don't care much for them, i admit it)

I don't understand this. 

Prior to getting pregnant at the end of season 4, Piper only sporadically mentions children and even then not very much beyond planning to have a child at some point. 

Are you confusing her with Phoebe who spent the final 3 seasons of the show obsessed with getting pregnant? 

[Lost]

On 2/19/2019 at 11:15 PM, JustKay said:

4: Overprotective piper? Um no! After Wyatt was born, I remember an episode where Leo was trying to feed him ro something and wyatt made a normal baby sound and piper is like "what are you doing, are you hurting him?" and im rolling my eyes. Bitch please, you realize how annoying you are? That and where she couldn't be bothered to go kill a demon with her sisters because she was going to have separation anxiety if she left him. I almost puked. Just no! and every.little.tiny.thing. She was all over him, hovering over him if someone even breathed on him wrong. This piper being pregnant should never of happened.

Separation anxiety is a real thing and the episode you refer to had demons trying to kill/kidnap the baby because of a prophecy. Yeah, can't imagine why she was overreacting. 

[Lost]

On 2/23/2019 at 12:40 AM, Rockstar99435 said:

There was an episode where Piper said something about not wanting Wyatt to go to Magic School with the freaks and it always bugged me that no one pointed out that her kid was also a "freak" and that calling him that is pretty shitty.

Or they could have had Chris be suprised by her attitude because he grew up with a Piper who stopped saying stuff like that so she wouldn't damage her kids. 

I remember there being loads of moments where Piper talks about normality casually and Phoebe or Paige laugh and point out "Erm, Wyatt/we are not normal!!".

I remember early on (obviously before the writers bothered to actually settle on who Chris was and he says Piper is a really optimistic and carefree or something and Paige laughs. Lmao. 

[Lost]

On 2/23/2019 at 1:13 PM, 4evaQuez said:

Wow! I honestly never thought about that, but that would have been a marvelous storyline for Charmed to tackle. As someone who is "different" with parents who just wanted to "fit in" it definitely would have resonated with me, and I think could have spoken to the parents watching Charmed. How parents do things to keep their kids "safe" but ultimately do more harm to the kids than just allowing them to explore themselves. Instead of the episode - since they dropped it almost immediately - where Chris doesn't want to get close to Piper because of her death, I would have loved if the show could have explored the resentment Chris feels for forcing him to be like everyone else when he wanted to embrace what made him unique. Unfortunately, I think it is too sophisticated a storyline for later seasons Charmed. 

As for the second bolded part, THANK YOU!!! I never understood why Piper complained so much about wanting to be normal. Normal humans were attacked by demons, cursed by witches, haunted by ghosts, and sometimes even trapped in hell dimensions (more Buffy than Charmed) all the time. I never understood why Piper would willingly give up a wonderful defensive power like Freezing when she knows she and her kids could be a victim at any moment. I especially didn't understand it since sometimes the show would give us dialogue about how a lot of the lower level demons wouldn't even attack the Charmed Ones because of how powerful they are.

And now that I think about it, something else that annoyed me about Piper wanting to give up her powers is that even in the Charmed Universe sometimes humans victimized other humans. Prue was stalked, Paige and Henry were held hostage at a bank, Phoebe's future friend was assaulted, and people were still murdered like the father Prue helped in season 2 all by humans. Having powers is what saved them or the innocents or at least is what got them justice. And in Phoebe's future friend case, I assume magic prevented her assault from happening. And Piper nearly died because of a normal, human disease and magic prevented her from dying. Hell, I would even say magic helped Piper to become a more confident person and stronger person - her explosive power seems instrumental to her become a lot more outspoken and with a power where you can literally blow up anything or anyone around you, why would someone not be more bold? Piper's argument made absolutely no sense in the Charmed universe or even in our universe.

It did make sense in terms of it being her neurosis. Like in the real world, our neuroses are rarely logical but they're there nonetheless. 

In regards to the demons and stuff, Piper was thinking more of being a Charmed One who is an actual target for these demons. Kind of in the same sense as being a police officer. You can be a regular citizen and be assaulted, murdered etc but as an officer you're actually putting yourself out there in more dangerous situations and thus the likelihood of you being injured or killed is significantly higher. So, as a Charmed One she and her family were in significant more danger than if they were nothing but mortals and there was only a "chance" they may become victims to someone or something. Having no powers takes the bounty from their heads. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Lost

[Lost]

On 3/9/2019 at 2:10 AM, Apprentice79 said:

I also think that her husband should have been mortal giving her the normal life that she always longed for..

Well, she got it in the end. Lmao. 

[Apprentice79]

21 minutes ago, Lost said:

It did make sense in terms of it being her neurosis. Like in the real world, our neuroses are rarely logical but they're there nonetheless. 

In regards to the demons and stuff, Piper was thinking more of being a Charmed One who is an actual target for these demons. Kind of in the same sense as being a police officer. You can be a regular citizen and be assaulted, murdered etc but as an officer you're actually putting yourself out there in more dangerous situations and thus the likelihood of you being injured or killed is significantly higher. So, as a Charmed One she and her family were in significant more danger than if they were nothing but mortals and there was only a "chance" they may become victims to someone or something. Having no powers takes the bounty from their heads. 

I have always felt that had Constance had remained on the show and continued to write for Piper, she would not have bitched so much about a normal life. I think she wanted Piper's wistfulness for a normal life to be an obstacle for Piper to overcome in her growth as a woman, witch and sister. Just like Phoebe's directionless life was supposed to change with her becoming a charmed one.. The same with Prue's uptightness and need to mother her sisters.  I have no doubt that as Piper became more powerful under Constance, her confidence would have grown as well. In time, she would have embraced her unconventional life.  Brad Kern overused that normal life crap and it just grated in the later seasons making Piper surly as the seer astutely called her in the season 7 episode "witchness protection".

[Lost]

7 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

I have always felt that had Constance had remained on the show and continued to write for Piper, she would not have bitched so much about a normal life. I think she wanted Piper's wistfulness for a normal life to be an obstacle for Piper to overcome in her growth as a woman, witch and sister. Just like Phoebe's directionless life was supposed to change with her becoming a charmed one.. The same with Prue's uptightness and need to mother her sisters.  I have no doubt that as Piper became more powerful under Constance, her confidence would have grown as well. In time, she would have embraced her unconventional life.  Brad Kern overused that normal life crap and it just grated in the later seasons making Piper surly as the seer astutely called her in the season 7 episode "witchness protection".

Oh absolutely. There became no depth to it, it became caricature much like Phoebe wanting a child. It wasn't written normally and they would parrot the same lines over and over because the writer was not very adept. 

The Manic Episodes reviews of the show on youtube point it out where they have the sisters learn the same lessons multiple times. Like, after Cole's death Phoebe has a disastrous date or short relationship that concludes with her realising losing Prue and Cole has led her to have a "closed heart" and she had now learned to let go and open it up etc. Then the next episode would act like it didn't happen. 

The same with Piper, in season 4 she's acting like binding her child's powers is an outrage despite it going against everything the character believed at that point. In the later seasons she flips from having embraced it all to hating it constantly, coming to the same epiphanies and resetting episode after episode. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Lost

[nightwing877]

Piper & Phoebe were better when they were written like how Connie had them. When the sisters were less based on Connie and her sisters and more like how Brad saw them, and when Holly and Alyssa became producers they were hardly the sisters we came to love anymore. 

Piper felt too much like Holly in S5-S8.  

Edited March 26, 2019 by nightwing877

[Esmeralda]

On 3/24/2019 at 10:53 PM, Lost said:

It did. Piper never froze time. She froze objects and people. 

When she froze a room, the world beyond that room continued as normal. Nicholas notes that it was Noon but he only heard five chimes of the clock in "That 70s Episode" precisely for this reason. 

Gotta admit when I'm wrong, and I guess I am.  So my favorite Charmed writer, Sheryl J. Anderson, screwed the continuity up TWICE in 'That Seventies Episode' - both that and saying that Grams got Patty to keep her married name when according to the CREDITS in 'Thank You for Not Morphing" which makes it canon, Patty didn't become a Halliwell until she married Victor Halliwell, meaning Grams was never a Halliwell!  The first jump to an alternate universe was in Season One! *shakes head* Discontinuity, your name is definitely Classic Charmed! (Having not watched a second of the rip-off, I have no idea if they've continued that trend.)

But I've gotta say I prefer Sheryl's alternate universe over the one Kern gave us in S4-8.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Esmeralda

[AMtoPM]

I wish Piper and Leo never got married or if they did, it happened much later on. I don't have a problem with the pairing or Leo as a character, he is a little dull but sweet and harmless. They definitely worked together and I bought them as "true love." Early on they were pretty unobtrusive and in the show's periphery, he was accepting of everything, even being with someone who prioritized her relationship with her sister. My problem is how the show devolved into "Leo! Leo! Leo!" because as her husband he was always available. I just liked it better when the sisters were off fending for themselves without Leo there to explain or heal everything. They could've ended up together much later allowing more time for it to be "witches kicking butt" solo.

The show would have been better if there was less focus on romance and dating overall.

The only romantic plot that worked for me was Cole/Phoebe, but not in S5. I think Cole worked as a doomed love and something that got in the way of the sisterly bond because I also bought into him as being a big enough lure and temptation for Phoebe to lose herself in. The fallout from it sucked. He shouldn't have been destroyed as a character to absolve her of her wrong doing. I'd have liked it if he stayed her doomed lover, in and out of her life in a guest spot capacity... allowing her to focus on witchcraft and less about the writing wanting Phoebe to "find love again" by "opening her heart after Cole's betrayal" over and over. Kind of like how Andy's death freed up Prue in some ways to not be beholden to any particular man, though I'm sure the show would've tried eventually and ruined her. They were headed there with her constant need to "get out there" even though she didn't seem like any of her relationships fulfilled her more than being powerful and the one in control.

[AMtoPM]

On 4/12/2015 at 11:56 AM, 4evaQuez said:

I was indifferent to Andy and to Andy's death.

I was sad when he died. I'm sad every time I watch that episode and Pru's morning of him in the next episode. But, I do think his death served a greater good. I did not want to see seasons of Prue pining for him and compared to White Lighter Leo and Half-Demon/Source of All Eve Cole, he would've been a pretty bland comparatively.

On 6/12/2015 at 10:52 AM, Daisy said:

Cole Gets a Raw Deal because of Phoebe.

Basically. (yes I get because of love). Phoebe totally screws over Cole. First, she could have/should have vanquished him. But She doesn't. Then (yes, they get all hoodwinked by Ian Buchanan), Cole begs her for the power stripping position and she's like "Omg, you're all evil, I just saw you kill a witch!" and then smashes the potion. then Cole gets possessed (and ultimately killed) by the Source via the Hollow, and this is where i get 100 percent irritated at ALL the sisters and especially Phoebe

1: Cole did not  choose  to become Source. Everyone knew up to that point, that Cole took the Hollow to save the Sisters and no one thought that Cole taking the Source's fireball would = him being the Source.

2: Up until "Long Live the Queen" it was pretty much stated that the Source was taking over Cole. Cole was saving/helping the sisters in little bits. COLE himself was still/always the innocent and they just lumped everything together. (forgetting, again, that Cole ultimately became what he did to save heir lives). 

3: Phoebe doomed Cole to die and to become the Source. As stated by SourceCole and the Seer - Phoebe wasn't uber influenced by Evil Baby Spawn, or by Tonic or by anything else. It wasn't mentioned that losing Source Powers would kill Cole. Phoebe was seeing the exact same thing that we saw. The Wizard was pulling out the Sourceness, (so HE could become the new Source). Phoebe stopped him. Killed the Wizard. Took Cole's hand and made him take on ALL the powers of the source - then for seasons 5 through Avatar Cole (6?), everyone was all like WELL COLE RUINED PHOEBE'S LIFE, COLE WAS EVIL, COLE SHOULD LEAVE PHOEBE ALONE. No. Phoebe killed Cole and held his hand while he became Source. if Anyone shoulda been pissed it really should be Cole. 

Happy to have read this post! I agree! My rewatch of those episodes was baffling because they all reacted like Cole wanted evil and forced it upon Phoebe.

Phoebe: You took away my will.

The Seer: No. You made the decision to stand by Cole all on your own. For Cole, for your baby and for you.

Piper: There is nothing in the Book of Shadows. Phoebe made a choice, there's nothing we can do about that unless she changes her mind.

Cole: You took my hand and walked me through that coronation long before anybody gave you anything to drink, so if you want to pretend that you're being poisoned. . . I know what it feels like to have good and evil inside of you, ripping you apart. I wanted to spare you that pain.

The show as pretty blatant about it. I don't know why they backtracked and turned her into Phoebe the Victim after laying all that foundation for her choosing evil!

I would say that Cole was not possessed by The Source in the same way that a spirit would take over your body and your free will, for example Piper in Coyote Piper. He was still Cole, but he was fighting a hell of an internal battle. He had all those powers in him that basically altered him, pulling him towards darkness when he didn't seek it out. Seducing him. He was given back strength, power, affluence, a high paying job and all the things he desired when he was a demon and human. That weakened his resolve. He fought it off as best as he could, saving Paige and even trying to give his powers to the wizard. But, ultimately, all that talk of "me" and referring to Cole in the third person was a way for him to compartmentalize his actions. Evil was taking him over and that perceptions was being used to hold onto his last shreds of humanity. Once he went through with the coronation, there was no turning back and he made his choice because he was tired of fighting it (which looked so painful in the episodes when it took a physical toll on him) and Phoebe accepted him.

The same thing happened to Phoebe even though the show wanted to pretend otherwise when it was all over and blame it all on big bad Cole. The Seer told her to stop feigning innocence because she has the same power as her, to see and feel. Phoebe admits that Cole is The Source and she felt it the minute it happened. She made a choice to ignore it, so she could get her man. Then she made a choice to give into the pull of evil to stay with him. The same powers that were taking over Cole, were inside her via their baby and tainting her the same way. The Seer gave her tonics to relieve the good in her, but she still made the choice to stay with Cole even after throwing the tonic away. While off the effects of the tonic, she almost killed her boss but Cole interrupted it. She was still confused and wrote letters to her sisters and Cole, not knowing who she wanted to say goodbye to. She drank the tonic WILLINGLY anyway choosing Cole when he showed up. It wasn't until she found out he killed an innocent and her sisters would be coming for them that she involuntarily threw up. She finally picked good when Paige screamed she was about to die.

She made the correct choice and fought off the pull, but that was after everything spiraled out of control. Cole had been fighting it off and saving her sisters as well, but never gets the credit Phoebe did. Then no one holds her accountable for agreeing to become the Queen of All Evil or even her "screw the power of 3" mantra before that choice.

Both Cole and Phoebe underwent the same transformation due to being corrupted by evil powers. Yet, somehow Cole has to spend eternity paying for it and Phoebe gets off acting like some wrong and wounded party that he preyed on. I think it's a great storyline. Cole was one of the best characters on the show because he was allowed to have that duality, to be flawed and still capable of good (until the 5th season when he became an abusive and obsessed stalker). Their relationship fulfilled that promise of being drawn to evil that was established in Phoebe from S1. Adding those same layers to Phoebe would have made her a better character, showing that she chose a bad man as her soulmate from the very start because it spoke to something in her. Have her deal with the fallout of her actions and try to repent. Let her learn from that mistake and never prioritize her own selfish needs over her duties. Let her learn that Cole can't be her perfect Prince Charming and life isn't Cinderella. She could've even tried to save him like the older Phoebe hoped for after realizing he was experiencing the same battle she did to give them both peace and redemption. Acknowledge that selfishness evil would always be a temptation when they're together because they were both so obsessively in love with the other, choosing a healthier path of walking away.

But, nope. Then Phoebe became a horrid character in the aftermath because the writes tried to make it like none if ever happened. She is the flawless and perfect Phoebe. Love is her true power!

ETA: Another thing? The way they handled the baby was awful. It was Phoebe and Cole's baby, period. It had evil source powers like Phoebe and Cole, but it wasn't actually the old Source's baby or the Seers. That was so silly.  I think back to the first seasons when Phoebe had no interest in marriage, but wanted a baby. Instead of Wyatt, could've been Phoebe raising her witch/demon/source spawn. Perfect ending for her. She gets her baby and doesn't have to bother with the dull love interests.

Edited April 4, 2019 by AMtoPM

[nightwing877]

On 4/1/2019 at 2:08 AM, Esmeralda said:

Gotta admit when I'm wrong, and I guess I am.  So my favorite Charmed writer, Sheryl J. Anderson, screwed the continuity up TWICE in 'That Seventies Episode' - both that and saying that Grams got Patty to keep her married name when according to the CREDITS in 'Thank You for Not Morphing" which makes it canon, Patty didn't become a Halliwell until she married Victor Halliwell, meaning Grams was never a Halliwell!  The first jump to an alternate universe was in Season One! *shakes head* Discontinuity, your name is definitely Classic Charmed! (Having not watched a second of the rip-off, I have no idea if they've continued that trend.)

But I've gotta say I prefer Sheryl's alternate universe over the one Kern gave us in S4-8.

Maybe we are better off treating every episode of Charmed with its own build in continuity, and just try not to think too much of episodes connecting. It creates fewer headaches trying to make sense of the hundreds of continuity errors of Charmed.

Maybe just following the continuity each individual writer did for Charmed. Each writer had their own ideas and continuity separate from the others. 

But Kern was a crappy showrunner, who did jack for the show, in making sure everything was consistent. I love Charmed, but each season was their own separate universe, with how much changes season to season with continuity. 

[nightwing877]

On 4/4/2019 at 3:30 AM, AMtoPM said:

I wish Piper and Leo never got married or if they did, it happened much later on. I don't have a problem with the pairing or Leo as a character, he is a little dull but sweet and harmless. They definitely worked together and I bought them as "true love." Early on they were pretty unobtrusive and in the show's periphery, he was accepting of everything, even being with someone who prioritized her relationship with her sister. My problem is how the show devolved into "Leo! Leo! Leo!" because as her husband he was always available. I just liked it better when the sisters were off fending for themselves without Leo there to explain or heal everything. They could've ended up together much later allowing more time for it to be "witches kicking butt" solo.

The show would have been better if there was less focus on romance and dating overall.

The only romantic plot that worked for me was Cole/Phoebe, but not in S5. I think Cole worked as a doomed love and something that got in the way of the sisterly bond because I also bought into him as being a big enough lure and temptation for Phoebe to lose herself in. The fallout from it sucked. He shouldn't have been destroyed as a character to absolve her of her wrong doing. I'd have liked it if he stayed her doomed lover, in and out of her life in a guest spot capacity... allowing her to focus on witchcraft and less about the writing wanting Phoebe to "find love again" by "opening her heart after Cole's betrayal" over and over. Kind of like how Andy's death freed up Prue in some ways to not be beholden to any particular man, though I'm sure the show would've tried eventually and ruined her. They were headed there with her constant need to "get out there" even though she didn't seem like any of her relationships fulfilled her more than being powerful and the one in control.

I think Piper/Leo got married way too early. Two and a half seasons is really early to have one of them marry. The journey/pay-off would be so much better if we watched Piper/Leo reach marriage later in the series.

Once Piper and Leo got married and had children, their storylines reached their peak, with something left to explore. As far as I'm concerned, too many shows feel the need to rush stuff quickly. I'd rather they have had Leo be taken away by the Elders for an entire season, I just hated how easy they had it, and then being able to marry because they saved the Elders. LOL

If Leo was taken at the start of S3, and Piper was left without Leo for the rest of S3, that would have been wonderful. Actually, if Leo came back in S4, even better. Then Phoebe/Cole could be the only relationship that they focused on in S3. 

Then, they can have Piper/Leo trying to make it work in S4, once he is returned, that can delay their wedding until S5 in the middle of the season.

Maybe Phoebe could be the one to have a child from Cole or no children at all, and the pay-off with Piper finally getting the child she saw in her future trip happens towards the end of the series. It would complete the P/L love story so much more if we watched their journey towards marriage and children, and not seen them having that pay-off so soon. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by nightwing877

[Lost]

On 4/4/2019 at 9:18 PM, AMtoPM said:

I was sad when he died. I'm sad every time I watch that episode and Pru's morning of him in the next episode. But, I do think his death served a greater good. I did not want to see seasons of Prue pining for him and compared to White Lighter Leo and Half-Demon/Source of All Eve Cole, he would've been a pretty bland comparatively.

Happy to have read this post! I agree! My rewatch of those episodes was baffling because they all reacted like Cole wanted evil and forced it upon Phoebe.

Phoebe: You took away my will.

The Seer: No. You made the decision to stand by Cole all on your own. For Cole, for your baby and for you.

Piper: There is nothing in the Book of Shadows. Phoebe made a choice, there's nothing we can do about that unless she changes her mind.

Cole: You took my hand and walked me through that coronation long before anybody gave you anything to drink, so if you want to pretend that you're being poisoned. . . I know what it feels like to have good and evil inside of you, ripping you apart. I wanted to spare you that pain.

The show as pretty blatant about it. I don't know why they backtracked and turned her into Phoebe the Victim after laying all that foundation for her choosing evil!

I would say that Cole was not possessed by The Source in the same way that a spirit would take over your body and your free will, for example Piper in Coyote Piper. He was still Cole, but he was fighting a hell of an internal battle. He had all those powers in him that basically altered him, pulling him towards darkness when he didn't seek it out. Seducing him. He was given back strength, power, affluence, a high paying job and all the things he desired when he was a demon and human. That weakened his resolve. He fought it off as best as he could, saving Paige and even trying to give his powers to the wizard. But, ultimately, all that talk of "me" and referring to Cole in the third person was a way for him to compartmentalize his actions. Evil was taking him over and that perceptions was being used to hold onto his last shreds of humanity. Once he went through with the coronation, there was no turning back and he made his choice because he was tired of fighting it (which looked so painful in the episodes when it took a physical toll on him) and Phoebe accepted him.

The same thing happened to Phoebe even though the show wanted to pretend otherwise when it was all over and blame it all on big bad Cole. The Seer told her to stop feigning innocence because she has the same power as her, to see and feel. Phoebe admits that Cole is The Source and she felt it the minute it happened. She made a choice to ignore it, so she could get her man. Then she made a choice to give into the pull of evil to stay with him. The same powers that were taking over Cole, were inside her via their baby and tainting her the same way. The Seer gave her tonics to relieve the good in her, but she still made the choice to stay with Cole even after throwing the tonic away. While off the effects of the tonic, she almost killed her boss but Cole interrupted it. She was still confused and wrote letters to her sisters and Cole, not knowing who she wanted to say goodbye to. She drank the tonic WILLINGLY anyway choosing Cole when he showed up. It wasn't until she found out he killed an innocent and her sisters would be coming for them that she involuntarily threw up. She finally picked good when Paige screamed she was about to die.

She made the correct choice and fought off the pull, but that was after everything spiraled out of control. Cole had been fighting it off and saving her sisters as well, but never gets the credit Phoebe did. Then no one holds her accountable for agreeing to become the Queen of All Evil or even her "screw the power of 3" mantra before that choice.

Both Cole and Phoebe underwent the same transformation due to being corrupted by evil powers. Yet, somehow Cole has to spend eternity paying for it and Phoebe gets off acting like some wrong and wounded party that he preyed on. I think it's a great storyline. Cole was one of the best characters on the show because he was allowed to have that duality, to be flawed and still capable of good (until the 5th season when he became an abusive and obsessed stalker). Their relationship fulfilled that promise of being drawn to evil that was established in Phoebe from S1. Adding those same layers to Phoebe would have made her a better character, showing that she chose a bad man as her soulmate from the very start because it spoke to something in her. Have her deal with the fallout of her actions and try to repent. Let her learn from that mistake and never prioritize her own selfish needs over her duties. Let her learn that Cole can't be her perfect Prince Charming and life isn't Cinderella. She could've even tried to save him like the older Phoebe hoped for after realizing he was experiencing the same battle she did to give them both peace and redemption. Acknowledge that selfishness evil would always be a temptation when they're together because they were both so obsessively in love with the other, choosing a healthier path of walking away.

But, nope. Then Phoebe became a horrid character in the aftermath because the writes tried to make it like none if ever happened. She is the flawless and perfect Phoebe. Love is her true power!

ETA: Another thing? The way they handled the baby was awful. It was Phoebe and Cole's baby, period. It had evil source powers like Phoebe and Cole, but it wasn't actually the old Source's baby or the Seers. That was so silly.  I think back to the first seasons when Phoebe had no interest in marriage, but wanted a baby. Instead of Wyatt, could've been Phoebe raising her witch/demon/source spawn. Perfect ending for her. She gets her baby and doesn't have to bother with the dull love interests.

Tbf, Phoebe WAS pregnant and the influence of the Source's unborn spawn cannot be discounted. We saw that foetus eventually take complete control of her body at a later stage, so it influencing her decisions and her feelings from the moment of conception is canon. 

The only issue is, it doesn't help that they didn't talk about the similar thing for Cole, being possessed by the Source himself. 

[P3HMH17]

Phoebe was and still is my favourite character. Everyone seems to go off her at around season 3, mainly because of the whole Cole thing, but I’ve always seen both sides of the argument. I kind of get why she lied to her sisters, in the moment where a demon is straight up attacking Cole and that whole speech he gave to her, she was in a bit of a panic and just acted. In that moment I feel she saw the human side of Cole and recognised that he may be telling the truth and with someone after them she just had to act quickly without much thought. Even after she lied to her sisters you can see the guilt in her character, she becomes gloomy and just not her regular self, she was overwhelmed by the feeling of love I don’t think she had ever really felt before, she was most certainly blinded by it, and being quite young, that feeling consumed her, hence her decision to save him and why she always wanted to be around him. I do think it was wrong of her to lie to her sisters about it, but in that moment she couldn’t of predicted how things would have turned out from there, she obviously thought there was a possibility he would come back, but knew in her heart he wouldn’t do anything to hurt them. And she was right (at the time). Phoebe in this season saw Cole as someone she could save, so had to put all effort into making sure he didn’t become evil again near the end of season 3. Phoebe could not of predicted prue dying. It’s like when piper and Leo orbed off and didn’t come back until a month later, what could have happened in that time to phoebe and prue? Although I’m sure Leo would have sensed something. But the point being is that us watching it, we have a different perspective especially whilst rewatching because we know what’s going to happen so can’t believe when characters appear to be naive with a situation. After all the sisters went through and after all they have survived, yes if phoebe was there with prue and piper, maybe prue could have had a better chance of survival, but I still don’t understand how phoebe ‘should have known’ one of her sisters was going to die. In season 4 their relationship is peak at the start, and it shows that maybe Cole has been saved. But then it all goes down hill again and then comes evil phoebe etc. But I LOVED evil phoebe. I wish they would have continued with that story line for more than 1 episode...But that brings me to the fact that phoebe could go either way, good or evil, whilst Cole was struggling to stay good in the later half of season 4 but gave in. Phoebes ability to go either way led her to have more in common with Cole than maybe she even thought, something her sisters wouldn’t ever understand. So her choosing Cole over her sisters in the last few episodes of season 4 was perhaps not the right choice for her to make, but in that moment where she thinks she has a baby, her husband was at risk of being vanquished and she was under the influence of a demonic baby AND her new powers that came from that AND the seer talking her down and being manipulative, I can actually see why she chose Cole. But from and outside perspective it looks like betrayal, which of course it is, and being the the queen of the underworld was probably the ultimate betrayal. But Cole was family too, and she also thought she was pregnant, that’s TWO families to have to decide on. Add that to her easily being able to be swayed to the evil side due to her being born in the house and her past lives. Phoebe was blinded by love, but even as the queen of the underworld she still saw her being a charmed one and being able to be both good and evil, the fight inside her over what’s right and wrong was still present. It’s not a if she joined the ‘evil’ side and started killing innocents just for the bants. I actually kinda wish they went all out with phoebe evil side and just made her go crazy, but that’s not her character, that’s not who phoebe is, she was just a girl who met a guy and fell so deeply in love she was willing to do anything for him. Even betraying her sisters. After that we see her completely change. In season 5 she was a whole new person, she got a job, she then hated Cole, she was just defensive as a whole. But being in a relationship that toxic for that long and being the queen of the underworld for a short while would do that to a person, even if it was a choice, it was heavily influenced by the baby and Cole, and also her actions were deeply regretted as shown when they go through their biggest fears and phoebes is that she is evil. Her character had been damaged by season 3 and 4, but after that I feel she became a new person, and tried to get past it all. She in no way is the worst character on charmed in my opinion. She just made a lot of bad choices. Cole was a manipulator in the episodes leading up to phoebe being crowned queen. I love Cole, but the source took him over and destroyed him. So all in all, I don’t even think phoebe or Cole really had a say in becoming evil, I think the influences inside both of them overwhelmed them and they only really had each other to relate to. If that makes sense. Phoebe in seasons 7 and 8 was where I felt she had finally come back, perhaps not all the way, but she had finally got over it all. So basically, I understand why phoebe wasn’t a favourite character and why people may of disliked her, but I also understand her point of view and how she thought in some situations, even though at times she was incredibly naive, like ALL of them at times, I feel her character progression was one of the best as in she made mistakes and eventually overcame them by vanquishing the guilt and life she once had before (metaphorically, by vanquishing Cole) once and for all. I’m sure we could all say that she should have done it season 3 in sleuthing with the enemy, but nobody could have predicted that he would become the source of all evil and take phoebe as his queen. I believe Cole did change for phoebe and loved her and visa versa. But the source was too powerful and destroyed their whole relationship. Their relationship was doomed from the start, but I loved it. It’s a real eye opener for the part of phoebe that was fun loving, bubbly and trusting, that not everybody can be saved. 

So basically I love phoebe and feel she’s progressed as a character so much after season 6 especially and became someone new  after the whole Cole thing. Being in a relationship like that would kill anybody’s fun loving nature and make them seem dull and gloomy, she brought it back a bit in season 4 I feel, but lost it again after becoming queen. Then it shined through again a little bit by s7.

it only made sense for her to fall for a Cupid. Like in season 1 where a Cupid told her always seek love out. And in walked Coop. Although we needed more time with the coop character to be able to ship them more I agree, their relationship was a bit fast, but I understood why she fell for him. After being unlucky in love, she deserved this.

This is a very unpopular opinion I feel, but I had to say it in defence of phoebe, purely because I thought she added so much to the show :)

[Pearson80]

Constance was right in that Cole should have been pure evil using Phoebe to destroy the power of 3.  I will always wonder how Constance would have written season 3.